AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: Dale Halterman on August 29, 2019, 07:00:18 PM
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I have been using Lehigh Valley lube for several years and have no problems with it, but I figure I should experiment with other, more historically accurate lubes. Haven't tried spit yet, that is next on the agenda.
Then there is grease. Searched the archives and found lots of good sounding recipes and many involve tallow, which brings me to my question.
My wife and I brown ground beef for things like chili, sloppy joes, tacos and so on. We always drain off the grease when the ground beef is browned. So, is the solidified fat tallow? If not, can it be used in place of tallow?
I did a google search and got way too many opinions to be of much value. Yes, no, maybe, depend on hot it was, did you strain it and so on.
I figure somebody on here must have tried this.
Thanks
Dale H
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I would use bear oil (if you can get it) if not Neatsfoot oil (as long as it is 100% pure Neatsfoot oil). Still historically accurate, easy to do just soak them squeeze out the extra lay the strips or pre-cut patches out to dry on paper towels and you are ready to go. I make up 100 or so at a time and keep them in airtight containers.
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If there’s any chance the meat is salted you can boil the grease in water, mixing several times. Then let it cool and chill overnight in the fridge. Peel off the hardened grease and use it.
I think we overthink some things. Out away from supplies I bet every form of grease was used.
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I have yet to find anything that beats mutton tallow. Works well and it doesn't go rancid like other tallows.
In hot weather I add a little beeswax to stiffen it up a bit (and it smells good).
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I have yet to find anything that beats mutton tallow. Works well and it doesn't go rancid like other tallows.
In hot weather I add a little beeswax to stiffen it up a bit (and it smells good).
I agree. Have used mutton tallow for years. Excellent patch lube.
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(https://i.ibb.co/413SJTg/DSC03033-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TWd0r8q)
there was a photo Mutton lube = 1-11/4 groups for me at 50 yrds getz round bottom 44 inch .50 70 grns swiss 2f .20 denim patch
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Is the fat from around the kidneys still the preferred fat for mutton tallow?
Mike
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Guys, thank you for taking the time to respond to my question.
Dale H
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I've tried alot of lubes for patches, mink oil [pure not the shoe stuff with silicone ] worked ok. crisco worked but the easiest loading was the 3oz. castor oil-1oz. murphys oil soap- and 8oz 91% rubbing alcohol. very accurate and loads easier than mink or crisco or cooking oil ect. soak the patches let dry on a screen soak n dry once more store in an old pill bottle.
Best accuracy in my 54 with 90 gr. 3f grafs black at 85-100 yds. no problems.
coupe
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I have used deer tallow for decades now.
Never had a problem with it, apart from if I left the patch with too much on, (didn't squeeze it out a bit after dipping in hot tallow. )
Patches over-lubed would go very stiff in V cold weather, and need softening in mouth before loading.
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I used deer tallow with nothing added this summer. It was clarified twice in a boiling water bath.
I thought that I had less fouling. I also felt loading was easier. I am wondering if the tallow doesn't burn it the barrel. I'm sticking with straight tallow and not adding beeswax anymore.
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I used deer tallow with nothing added this summer. It was clarified twice in a boiling water bath.
I thought that I had less fouling. I also felt loading was easier. I am wondering if the tallow doesn't burn it the barrel. I'm sticking with straight tallow and not adding beeswax anymore.
You do well to leave the beeswax out, NH. It is sticky and only works if using a very thin lube.
I too use the deer tallow as is. It Does seem very slick.
Not saying it's best, just that I have been satisfied with it all this time. Nothing will rust with deer tallow on it.
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bees wax in lube always gives me the crud :o ring just above the round ball seating
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Properly rendered deer tallow does not go rancid, as was implied in a post above.
Never tried any other tallow. Spit or NFO or tallow are my lubes of choices.
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Wade,
What you say is true.
I don't know if you are familiar the Packington guns, but these were a collection of 18th century guns belonging to the Earles of Aylesford.
When they came up for sale in the 1920's they were found to be covered lightly in deer tallow, that had preserved them perfectly, and none of them had any rust on them.
(See GBG 1740-1790, The Packington Story)
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Wade,
What you say is true.
I don't know if you are familiar the Packington guns, but these were a collection of 18th century guns belonging to the Earles of Aylesford.
When they came up for sale in the 1920's they were found to be covered lightly in deer tallow, that had preserved them perfectly, and none of them had any rust on them.
(See GBG 1740-1790, The Packington Story)
There we go! It never goes funky on my gun either, or in the jars I put it up in years ago. Very handy for waterproofing a pan on a wet day too.
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The best patch lube is whale oil. It's not legal anymore. Next in line is bear oil/tallow. After that, it gets a little vague but mink oil has to be close to the top if not the top.
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As far as grease lubes are concerned, mink oil is the best I've found and I've tried several concoctions over the past 55 years. I like it because - 1. I don't have to kill a whale. 2. I don't have to kill a bear. 3. There's no work involved. 4. I don't have to go outside to make it. AND 5. I don't even have to kill a mink. Stuff works great, too.
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As far as grease lubes are concerned, mink oil is the best I've found and I've tried several concoctions over the past 55 years. I like it because - 1. I don't have to kill a whale. 2. I don't have to kill a bear. 3. There's no work involved. 4. I don't have to go outside to make it. AND 5. I don't even have to kill a mink. Stuff works great, too.
You don't have to kill a bear either. ;)
http://www.octobercountry.com/bumblin-bear-grease-4-oz/
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With all the possible pre industrial materials available the British Army stayed with mutton tallow for their patch lubricant and the East India Company sent their new guns to India covered in mutton tallow to survive a months long voyage through the tropics at sea in all weathers and they arrived in perfect condition. Always works for me. Beeswax is just a stiffener and carrier for the tallow.
The only downside to tallow is that it reacts with the lead in a ball to form a lead soap which makes the ball larger so is not a good choice for a ball kept in contact with tallow for a long time but we use grease as we load so not an actual issue for us who are not wrapping rifle ball in a patch in the factory and sending it off to military stores for years until called for.
Not unique to mutton tallow. All fats will form a metal soap with lead. That lead soap used to be used as a sticky plaster to seal wounds and sores. It does not take much to have an effect upon lead over time. The Enfield factory used to lubricate their bullet making machinery with tallow (and modern British bank note machinery still requires it) and the tiny amount that passed onto the bullet as it went through the machinery was found to cause enough of a problem that they changed to Rangoon petroleum oil.
OT but petroleum oils were named by their source before complicated cracking was developed and each source had different characteristics. Crude oil from Burma was an excellent lubricant source and it's characteristic red colour could be found in later British commercial lubricants even after cracking became routine because the customers expected it. IIRC Pennsylvania oils were good lighting oils for example.
All in all you can't go wrong with mutton tallow. Most mammal fats yield an adequate tallow but mutton, deer and bear are least likely to go rancid which is less important now that we have refrigerators and freezers. Beef is OK but will go off. Common supermarket lard is often salted. I don't know about the USA but one can buy processed beef suet in supermarkets in boxes of soft granules for making suet pastry etc. and is ready for use as a lubricant.
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That's because the UK has a lot of sheep.
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As far as grease lubes are concerned, mink oil is the best I've found and I've tried several concoctions over the past 55 years. I like it because - 1. I don't have to kill a whale. 2. I don't have to kill a bear. 3. There's no work involved. 4. I don't have to go outside to make it. AND 5. I don't even have to kill a mink. Stuff works great, too.
I am in total agreement with Hanshi on most of his statement. For me, I found Hoary Marmot oil to be the best patch lube for hunting. Second to that, I found Track's Mink Oil to be very good indeed.
I've also used bear grease (rendered outside fat) which also worked very well with my tight hunting (heavy) loads. I currently have some bear oil (inside fat rendered) to test, but have not tested it yet. I doubt I will be disappointed. Beeswax added to lube is not usable here in the North, due to it being hard a lube during hunting season.
Beeswax, on the other hand is a GREAT addition to oils for a bullet lube.
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All the above work well, but for me 100% pure Neatsfoot oil is cheaper, don't have to order it (local farm supply sells it in quart bottles), works just as well, doesn't go rancid and keeps all my leather goods in fine kettle.
The "Muskrat" has spoken.
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I would think the yellow bellied marmot would be better given it's higher moral standards!
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A guy I have been talking with in ID finally got around to trying his hair brained idea. Skunk tallow, said it is the slickest stuff he has ever used. Rendered out perfectly, and has no smell other than the little lanolin he added for stiffness.
Might try that if I get a few again, but the thoughtnalone would banish me to the back shed if the misses knew.
Mike
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I would think the yellow bellied marmot would be better given it's higher moral standards!
;D ;D ;D ;D
The Hoary Marmots in last Sept./October have laid on a LOT of fat. After stripping it out of the cavity
you can simply bag it in small freezer bags and put it in the freezer. Take them out when you want
to apply it to your boots, just rub it in. It will take 2 washings with a good grease-cutting dish detergent
or other de-greaser, to get the oil off your hands. I do not know about the chicken/marmot/cross.
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So, you don't render it.
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Not for boots, Mike. Rendered for patch lube though, to separating the oil from all the connective tissues. It rendered out just like
good bear oil, clear of tissues and very slippery. (high slip-tivity, as Taylor would say)
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Hmmm maybe time to go out and collect a few marmots.