AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: Bruce in WV on September 08, 2019, 02:15:54 AM
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We have occasional fun muzzleloader shoots at our local club but are currently limited to an open field for a range. Most of our shooters are "seniors", many with fairly serious issues impacting our shooting positions. Arthritis, joint replacements, etc., limits use of kneeling and sitting positions, so most try offhand. Accuracy is pretty iffy under those conditions, and not as much fun as we'd like.
Long background to short question: Is there a steady rest suitable for standing shooting? (I seem to remember Schuetzen shooters using a stepped rest of some sort for standing shooting, but can't find a reference or plans.)
We could invent something if we have to, I suppose, but I'm hoping somebody here can offer an existing solution.
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Try tall cross sticks with the pivot mid shoulder height.
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Rich is spot on. Our club has tall cross sticks for those that need them.
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check out Herbs postings he has cross sticks(plans) for standing that have a "kick stand" to make them a sort of tri pod when needed .
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If you lash 3 poles together with a shear lashing, they fold out into a tripod.
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check out Herbs postings he has cross sticks(plans) for standing that have a "kick stand" to make them a sort of tri pod when needed .
Found that picture -thanks!
Also found the NMLRA description of cross sticks in their Rules and Regulations (Rule 5310): "5310–CROSS STICK DESCRIPTION–Two pieces of wood with MAXIMUM dimensions of 1 1/4" thick, 2 1/4" wide, and 40" in length, bolted together a few inches from one end to form an unequal X when opened. Legs should be pointed on the long end to facilitate insertion in the ground and may have a spike of up to 4” length for this purpose."
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At our monthly club shoot we start out shooting paper targets offhand. Due to a medical issue and age I shoot offhand using shooting sticks three 3/4" six foot poles with one cut six inches shorter all lashed together to form an easily carried tripod. Look up "African shooting sticks". I cover the two longer sticks in soft buckskin to keep from marring the finish on my rifles. Easy to set up and use on trail walks also. Since most of what I use mine for are on soil I put heavy nails into the bottom of the poles so they don't slip.
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Herb and Muskrat Mike's pictures can be found in "Shooting Sticks- Who Uses them"? in BP Shooting , mine November 06, 2018. I don't know how to bring the quote here, maybe someone else can do it.
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How are the 3 poles lashed together?
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At some point we must realize that we are shooting for fun. We just like to make our guns go "Bang". Some guys can't stand some can't sit how are you going to have any kind of meaningful competition? I suggest you forget standing and take out some ironing boards and folding chairs. I think that's how "table shooting" got started.
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Herb and Muskrat Mike's pictures can be found in "Shooting Sticks- Who Uses them"? in BP Shooting , mine November 06, 2018. I don't know how to bring the quote here, maybe someone else can do it.
Thank you - found those pics and the discussion of shooting sticks. Will send them to the shoot organizer with a suggestion we make up a few pair of both the two-stick and three-stick models and keep them in the shed for future shoots.
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How are the 3 poles lashed together?
Start with a clove hitch, wrap thrice, frap twice, end with a clove hitch.
Lay 3 poles of the proper length side by side on the ground. Tie a clove hitch on one of the outer poles. Keeping the poles flat, wrap the rope around all three 3 times so you end up at the first pole. Then wrap (frap) the rope twice between the 1st and 2nd pole and pull tight, then repeating between the 2nd and 3rd pole. End with a clove hitch on the 3rd pole. Stand them up and kick the center pole out and lay them into a tripod.
You can probably google "shear lashing" to find a picture.
Can also be used in camp for a variety of things; hanging pots from a rope tied in the center, tie the lashings lower to make a wash stand, longer poles wrapped with a painter's tarp for a quick shelter, etc, etc, etc.
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I am for next couple days on the other side of the state helping my best friend and hunting buddy deal with his cancer. When I get home I will post pictures of my sticks. Make a set you will love them.
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Thank you. I'll be looking forward to seeing those photos.
On a side note, whenever I'm in the woods with a flintlock I'm also toting along a "Trigger stick", I use it as a walking stick and in a pinch I can make a good offhand shot with it if necessary. Though it works best when sitting in a chair in a blind.
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At some point we must realize that we are shooting for fun. We just like to make our guns go "Bang". Some guys can't stand some can't sit how are you going to have any kind of meaningful competition? I suggest you forget standing and take out some ironing boards and folding chairs. I think that's how "table shooting" got started.
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I see this issue from both sides. When younger I was an up and coming offhand shooter, placed 3rd in the SE regionals the only time I entered. But my job got in the way and I drifted away from match shooting. Point is, I was young, with good eyes, and really liked standing on my 2 feet and shooting offhand.
But now things have changed, I still have the desire but I don't have the means. A total knee and hip replacement on the left side, and now bone on bone knee along with hip pain on the right side has probably hurt my offhand more than anything. Just can't stand steady anymore. Add to that a deteriorating joint disease in both shoulders makes it pointless to even enter a match. My eyesight also went south and now I shoot with a peep sight.
What I would like to see is a class for us wore out oldtimers, but leave it open to any age with the right physical limitations. In it would be at least two targets, one is an offhand but you can use any kind of shooting aid such as a monopod, tripod or stick to help manage the weight of the gun over a period of shots. The other would be some kind of table shoot sitting in a chair. Most of us have a problem with sitting on the ground and then getting up again, so a chair is doable. And make any kind of open sight to include peep sights legal as most of us also have progressing vision problems. Just no scopes, red dots etc. Please.
I think as a whole our true muzzleloader ranks now consist of mainly older shooters. Many no longer compete because they are forced to abide by a young man's rules which no longer work for them. So it's maybe time to offer these guys some shooting that more meets their ability.
And it's a fact that almost everybody will be like us in some way eventually. And nobody wants to be turned out to pasture.
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http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=51555.msg513293#msg513293
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Standing bench rests are still used by companies who still regulate double rifles, the old way. Companies who use lasers, etc, regulate rifles poorly & oft times get them back for re-regulation.
Standing at the bench fairly closely replicates the recoil of shooting standing. The gun is held in both hands when shooting on that bench. I do that same with my rifles when benching and find the point of impact to be identical. Hold the rifle as you do for a hunting shot, and hold it the same on the bench, with the back of your hand on the bag- like this.
My bro, shows how.
(https://i.ibb.co/ZMtDV8L/2017-11-17-22-02-38.jpg) (https://ibb.co/W2qJ6yx)
(https://i.ibb.co/7GZG4H5/2017-11-17-22-07-28.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CnYn2qZ)
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(https://i.ibb.co/NYnNgsW/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Thq0DkP)
I can't agree more. I can no longer shoot offhand and either shoot off sticks or a rest or just don't shoot. At our monthly club shoot I shoot from cross sticks at both the paper target shoot and the trail walk. As the age of most shooters in our sport are senior or super senior (65 and 70) we need to do all we can to keep these shooters " in the game" if the younger shooters don't like it simply score the matches by age group. I have for the last 5 days been "calling the match" at the Oregon State B.P.C.R. Championships. A vast majority of the shooters were over 60, some over 70 and one almost 80. Ours is an aging sport and we need to do all we can to keep our shooters going.
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Recurve, thanks very much. One does not have to be very smart if you have smart friends.
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Standing in a foxhole, rifle cradled on sand bags made for a great shooting position.
Table matches have become very popular for all the reasons mentioned in the previous posts.
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I liked the tri pod I mounted my M60 on in a fighting position over the built in bi pods (95 bravo =US ARMY Military Police ) but back to flint locks does anyone use a mono-pod (forked Moses stick)? Kind of like the match locks used.
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Tried one, way, way too wobbly, tall bipeds are only slightly better. For the most stable platform on tall sticks, the mor legs the better.
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I have the same
, and a few more, problems stated above and have had to give up offhand shooting. I began table shooting several years ago and haven't looked back. I'm even able to compete with the youngsters, I'm 75. The NMLRA has adopted table shooting and establish very reasonable rules that fit almost everyone's needs. I am beginning to shoot chunk again and found that the NMLRA will grant exceptions, for legitmate medical reasons, allowing the use of benches similar to the tables. Local clubs should look into these options to help keep us grey beards active. If nothing else we of greater maturity might have some information to pass on.
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Good points, Mark. At Hefley this year, there were more registrants in senior senior class (where that class was separate), than in men's class, seems to me.
Those dang seniors are still hard to beat. :o
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I tried a mono-pod shooting stick. I bought it for the dual purpose of helping walk and for shooting assist. I tried it at the range and found it made my shooting worse. I put the stick away and shot the rest of the day offhand. Now I have an adjustable walking stick and an aid to help me if I fall in the woods.
I'm 72 and thought I needed help. Nah!
Ken
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The sub juniors are allowed to use camera tripods to rest their rifles on. Light weight and easy to adjust to terrain. Has a 1/4 20 bolt you can bolt a wider rest on. You may want to consider it.
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I have used cross sticks with an armed lightweight deck chair for shooting field rats out to over 300 yards.
I found it to be just as good as off a rest prone or table/bench. The chair arms are needed for elbow rests.
With a loose butt stock and no arm rests, I find I shoot almost as good offhand especially with a cap lock.
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Found pictures of the schuetzen supported offhand rest I mentioned in the OP. It goes back to the mid-1800's in this country, and is still in use in central Texas schuetzenfests. It would be simple to modify the rests and make them a little wider for our style rifles.
(https://i.ibb.co/6NKwSz3/06023536-48-A1-4-F84-87-B3-D5-C4-FA97-C6-E6.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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Interesting. That is the first time I have seen such a rest.
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Well as a former offhand shooter and still a builder, this thread hits home. I can no longer stand a shoot. I use my walker with a seat and the arm rests are just right for support. Puts the fun back in blasting away with a flinter. I can no longer aim at nickels but an 8" diameter plate at 65 yards is in danger...LOL.
Nice to know I am not alone in this.
Tony Maples
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Tony,
You are far from being alone.