AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Contemporary Accoutrements => Topic started by: broome1000 on September 12, 2019, 03:23:14 PM
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I just acquired this horn and I am not sure what I have. I am wondering if there are any powder horn experts out there that would like to weigh in. The horn has a dark patina that was hard to capture with my camera. These pictures were all taken using the flash.
(https://i.ibb.co/7Ynt6xs/DSCN0394-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JBvjMWD)
(https://i.ibb.co/dGt5330/DSCN0395-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/72Q1TTJ)
(https://i.ibb.co/mSmvdkG/DSCN0396-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Yb6DJm3)
(https://i.ibb.co/7bgThk5/DSCN0397-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9GwfPZL)
(https://i.ibb.co/4SSjfsK/DSCN0399-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LggCPQY)
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You may really have something if it truly is an original, I'm looking forward to opinions from the experts
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Couple of things that I am seeing.
One of the brass tacks has a missing head. The shank appears to be square. That is a good sign for age, but they can also be duplicated or use antique ones easily available online.
The wear (cracking) around that rim of the craved tip it very difficult to duplicate.
The patina looks even.
It would be helpful to see the base plug.
Cory Joe Stewart
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Hard to know. Most early horns had a different geometry and inking is rarely still bold. Could still be real.
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The one odd thing I'm seeing is the aging/color of the horn between the tacks. Makes me wonder if A. The horn has been cleaned somehow. B. If it was cleaned and then carved, as in an old horn with contemporary carving.
Tim C.
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I am agreeing. The age of the engraving doesnt match the age of the rest of it.
Cory Joe Stewart
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Unless of course it was cleaned to bring the scrim back out. Sure seems like there’d be some wear somewhere on the scrim if that was the case though....
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Thank you for the replies. The horn is a lot brighter in the pictures than in person. I used the max flash so the carvings would be clear. Approx half of the horn has a very dark almost black patina and there is scrimshaw carving visible underneath that black patina. I see what some of you pointed out near the top half of the horn from the tacks down. It is possible the top half of the horn was cleaned from the tacks down to about the middle. The bottom half of the horn was definitely not cleaned.
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My honest opinion, take it for what it’s worth. It appears to be an original horn that has been cleaned and scrimmed recently. My evidence is the inability to clean between the tacks and the script that was scrimmed has a modern “feel” to it. It’s just a hunch... take it for what it’s worth.Even if the scrimshaw is a modern application it’s still a very nice horn!
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For what it is worth, I seemed to see in several areas of the scrimshaw where the edges of the cut showed the fine and tale, tale minute white flaking that occurs when the horn surface is scratched and NOT polished away or worn away from handling and rubbing over time. I simply zoomed in and that is what I believe I saw. May be old eyes. However, makes me a little suspicious that that the scrimshaw work is of "recent" vintage on an old horn.
J.B.
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That's a very nice horn. I'll defer to the experts regarding its age and any possible efforts toward restoration or enhancement. To my admittedly unprofessional eye, it looks like an old horn someone may have tried to clean up.
Vectoring off in a slightly different direction, I did a cursory Google search, using "Captain John Manuel 1781" as keywords. Interestingly, the first and only truly relevant hit was for a Captain John George Manuel (29 March 1893 - 10 June 1918), who was a Canadian First World War flying ace, officially credited with 13 victories. As the engraving on this powder horn clearly shows a Montreal/ St. Lawrence theme in association with the original owner's moniker, we wonder if there might be a family connection of some sort.
In any event, thanks for showing us this nice old horn. I think it's a beauty, regardless of its age.
Notchy Bob
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Doesn't have the appearance of any 1781 horn I've had the pleasure to see. Too many signs that it is a recent work.
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For what it's worth, the last name on the horn is spelled NANUET.
-Ron
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For what it's worth, the last name on the horn is spelled NANUET.
-Ron
I stand corrected! Should have been wearing my reading glasses instead of trifocals, I guess.
Thanks for catching the error, Ron.
Notchy Bob