AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: Artificer on July 10, 2009, 02:48:54 PM
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Folks, I swear this is something I never thought about when I was shooting smoothbores in Northwest Trade Gun Matches, but it is something someone came up with on the U.S. International Muzzleloading Team and I learned about in the mid 90's.
At a tryout match in 1996 to pick the team the for the World Championships, someone came up to me and asked if I had any sandpaper with me. I usually kept 220, 320 and 400 grit emory cloth, but they wanted 80 grit. I asked the shooter what he wanted it for and he said "to sand his balls." Well, needless to say I thought I was being set up for being the butt of a joke, but it turns out they did that on the smoothbore musket matches. 1816 type muskets were the preferred gun for the original musket matches. One of our best shooters used an original M1840 musket, so I asked him about it and he said, "Yep, that's true." No one had a scientific explanation for it, but they thought it gripped the patching material better and it did make the muskets more accurate.
So, when I packed my gear for the World Championships, I added five sheets of 80 grit emory cloth and danged if they didn't use every one of them to sand balls for smoothbore muskets. They won a Gold Medal in a combined firearms match due to how well our musket folks shot, so it did actually work.
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Muzzle Blasts' had write up some time ago (I think in the Bevel Up column). They textured the balls by rolling the ball between files. I think the idea to give a texture like golf ball dimples. It does alter the flight, but that is all I remember. Rick
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Well, if nothing else, it would make you stand up straight.........Don
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Well, if nothing else, it would make you stand up straight.........Don
;D ;D ;D
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Are they sanding the entire surface or only a band around the middle?
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Well, if nothing else, it would make you stand up straight.........Don
Grin. Yes, needless to say the jokes I've heard go way beyond what should be read by anyone twelve or under.
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Scott,
They sand most of the surface, except for the sprue.
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Spherical objects have their own special area of aerodynamics. The biggest factors are spin and wake turbulence. (Minus rifling, spin is to be avoided, of course. The dreaded curve ball.) Wake turbulence comes from the low pressure area behind the ball as it pushes the air out of the way. The air closes in behind it in a random, burbling way, slowing it down and magnifying any irregularities in the airflow around the ball.
The dimples in a golf ball create many tiny irregularities in the airflow around the ball, breaking up the boundary layer. (The boundary layer is a stagnant, thin layer of air around any moving object.) This makes the air flow farther around the back of the ball before breaking away from the surface and creating the low pressure area. The ball experiences less drag and wobble.
Sanding the ball with 80-grit probably does the equivalent. This would reduce the accuracy-destroying eddies and the overall air drag. The ball would retain more of its muzzle velocity farther out.
What's next, swaged round balls from Hornady with dimples? It might well work.
Brilliant idea: half dimpled "wiffle" round balls for shooting around corners.
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Folks, I swear this is something I never thought about when I was shooting smoothbores in Northwest Trade Gun Matches, but it is something someone came up with on the U.S. International Muzzleloading Team and I learned about in the mid 90's.
Not much new about this. Twenty five years ago or more the smoothbore shooters in my area were roughing up their muzzle loading balls by rolling them between a piece of sheet metal or glass and a file or rasp. A lot of guys at Friendship were doing the same. Not everyone, but many did.
Randy Hedden
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They textured the balls by rolling the ball between files. I think the idea to give a texture like golf ball dimples.
The dimple thing is the result of someone's thinking who had too much time on their hands. The idea of rolling balls between two rasps or coarse files most likely originated with N-SSA shooters.
Original smoothbore muskets did not use patched balls. N-SSA competitions are timed and speed loading is of the essence. In rolling balls between rasps, the effective diameter of the ball is increased. The ball is then dip-lubed. On loading, the raised portion in contact with the bore easily collapses, providing the shooter with a lubed, bore sized ball with a slight bearing surface to the bore.
This idea later transitioned over to primitive smoothbore shooters who found them advantageous, both for accuracy and for speed shoots such as post-cutting, or for timed shoots during certain woodswalks.
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TOF's got a good point about the rolling between rasps - as I increasd the size of some heavy slugs for my .69 some .008" by rolling the slugs with a very coarse wood rasp, heavy wool blanket beneath the ball. The lead expanded into the deep cuts of the rasp, effectively increasing the diameter a LOT more than I would have imagined. The cuts allowed enough lube to do the job, as well. An now depearted old friend, Lester H. Hawkes, who was a machinist & muzzleloading shooter way back when, in Tenn. told me to try it. He had many such 'tricks'.
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Muzzle Blasts' had write up some time ago (I think in the Bevel Up column). They textured the balls by rolling the ball between files. I think the idea to give a texture like golf ball dimples. It does alter the flight, but that is all I remember. Rick
I remember that article, too. Tumbling the balls in a polishing drum or vibrator drum should put the little golf ball dimples in a soft ball, I'd think. I aim to try the wood rasp technique.
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I was thinking about this idea in comparison to dimpled golf balls and realized that this could be a smoothbore only idea.
One of the effects of dimples on a golf ball is to increase the lift from the spin of the ball. It is the same aerodynamic effect (Bernoulli) as pitching a curve ball.
Shot from a rifle, the ball is spinning in a direction perpendicular to the flow of air around it. In still air this would be no problem for a dimpled ball. However, in a crosswind the ball would experience increased lift or drop, depending on the direction of spin and the direction of the wind. The shot might end up being a "slider" or hit high.
I wonder if there is a detectable crosswind lift/drop effect with a regular rifle ball.
In my case it would be lost in the muzzle wobble.
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I tried the method of rolling the ball around on a smooth/hard surface with a rough file many yrs. ago and had very favorable results in a couple smoothbore matches on paper targets. I did a couple of batches but it was quite time consuming, so I didn't continue to use it.
However for years I have tumbled and shaken my rb's in a coffee can for a minute or so, to give them all a uniform dimpled surface, similar to the swaged balls you can buy. It gets rid of those minor surface wrinkles. I do this for rifled and smoothbore guns and I am very happy with the results!
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It gets rid of those minor surface wrinkles. I do this for rifled and smoothbore guns and I am very happy with the results!
T Caster - what wrinkles? I'm not familiar with said wrinkles. ;)
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Some food for thought.
During a discussion a friend sent me this quote from the Warner-Lowe papers, its by William V. Lowe.
"One time there was t be a turkey shoot for smooth bores. Kendall had a gun all ready for rifling. He put it gun in rifling machine and laid the surface with course emery. The gun was almost equal to a rifle for say a hundred shots.
The upshot of it was that Mr. Smith & Kendall shot all the turkeys the man was willing to put up."
Them tricky devils.... I almost fell off my chair laughing after reading it.
This would be easy for some nefarious type to do with rifle barrel for a guide.
Scratch rifling is well known in English FL duelers.
Dan
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I wonder if there is a detectable crosswind lift/drop effect with a regular rifle ball.
If you wonder about the new conical bullet from rifled barrel, yes. If you wonder about the round ball, perhaps. Not easy to see how much.
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I wonder if there is a detectable crosswind lift/drop effect with a regular rifle ball.
If you wonder about the new conical bullet from rifled barrel, yes. If you wonder about the round ball, perhaps. Not easy to see how much.
There is always some vertical displacement in wind conditions, just as there is with conical bullets.
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Okay, I tried to resist, but I can't. Would sanding your balls cause you to adopt a more open legged stance and possibly improve you offhand shooting? Hey, it's really great to be here. Try the veal and don't forget to tip your waiter. ;D
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If that doesn't make you stand up straight,try double rasping them.It's just gotta change somethin! Ouch!!
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sounds like it will hurt.........lol