AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: snapper on September 29, 2019, 09:17:13 PM
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I picked up a half pound of swiss Null B for priming my flintlock while at Friendship a couple of weeks ago. Had a few shooters tell me they wont use anything else.
Got to try it out this past weekend. It made a huge difference in my rifle. I had almost instant ignition and was very impressed.
I had been using swiss 4F.
If you have a chance to try some, I would highly recommend it.
Fleener
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Yeah I like it too. I’ve already used up a pound of it. My only qualm with it beyond the cost is that it tends to clump up a bit. Even in the original plastic bottle it clumped up. Nothing a little stir with a wood dowel wouldn’t cure quickly.
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Yep. Love it. Fast. Doesn’t take much. Will clump and stop up a small hole in a priming horn on occasion. Nothing a good shake or vent pick won’t fix. I also heard, probably related to the clumping thing, that it will suck up moisture faster in hunting scenarios, ie. sitting in the pan all day. Haven’t experienced that but that’s what I heard.
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Word on the street is that it won't suck up any moisture in the pan as long as the rifle hasn't been fired.
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Your experience with Null B concurs with testing I did. The link below is to an article in which I timed Swiss Null B (the quickest) to Goex ffg (the slowest in this test.) I also timed Goex fg and Goex cannon grade, but they were not included in the article. They were timed after I turned in the article.
https://www.blackpowdermag.com/priming-powder-timing/ (https://www.blackpowdermag.com/priming-powder-timing/)
Regards,
Pletch
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Larry
I was wondering on your testing how it turned out.
The speed of main charge ignition was percussion like. Not quite, but very close.
I had a big smile on my face all day on Friday when I was shooting my rifle from Mitch Yates and it was firing great and the steel targets were swinging.
On Saturday, I was shooting my double rifle and it was shooting great as well, I was all smiles that day too. Used almost two pounds of powder for the two days of shooting.
Fleener
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Sounds great, but where can you get Null B? I never see it at the places I order powder from. I would like to try it.
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It’s Swiss 0B. Powder.com has it.
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Down here in Florida, my experience has been that it does not respond well to high humidity. I blend it 50/50 with 4f and don't have any problems, but I should add that I also wipe the pan clean between shots. I picked up a container of Null B at Friendship. It was $20.00 for 8 oz. :-\ I doubt I'll continue to use it when this is gone...my offhand shooting doesn't deserve such things as $40.00 per pound priming powder..( or $30.00 a yard teflon coated patch material for that matter).
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Used almost two pounds of powder for the two days of shooting.
Fleener
Sounds like a fun 2 days.
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I found some at the Maine Powder House. I plan to make a BP order soon, so I will pick up a 1/2#. I did some research on Null B, and the reason I think it clumps up is that it is not coated with graphite like the other powders. Graphite was added to powder for better flow rate, and more moisture resistance.
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I bought 3lbs. of Null-B after reading Pletch's article. Used up one pound and just started on the second. I also have some 7F. It works well.
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I found some at the Maine Powder House. I plan to make a BP order soon, so I will pick up a 1/2#. I did some research on Null B, and the reason I think it clumps up is that it is not coated with graphite like the other powders. Graphite was added to powder for better flow rate, and more moisture resistance.
Interesting statement. The late Paul Mathews, in his experiments, found that graphite coating did absolutely nothing to make his paper patched bullets more water resistant than plain paper.
I have that book wherein he writes about this very aspect of graphite coating.
It does, however improve lubricity of bullet and powder & perhaps reduces dust as well.
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I was told by a rep from Swiss at a show that NULL B is the material screened out as too fine when making 4f Swiss. Dust size in other words. I love it. My senses cannot tell the difference in NULL B and 4f ignition, but I trust Larry’s testing. NULL B gives me the confidence that I am using the best I can get, and confidence goes a long way to making a successful shot.
God Bless, Marc
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I was told the same thing about the 7F I bought, but as you said, it makes me feel better when I am killing the steel circles on my range. ???
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just got back from a week of mule deer hunting. Used null b prime and never had it soak up any moisture that was noticeable. End of each day the prime was dry and fell right out of pan. 2" of snow first weekend and a little rain. plenty of moisture. No deer >:(
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Null is German for ZERO as in null and void.WHAT does 7fg look like?It must look
like black flour and is there any advantage in it?
Bob Roller
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For my rifle the difference between null b and 4f was huge in ignition of the main charge. I realize it might be a fraction of a second but very noticeable for me.
As a die hard percussion shooter it certainly has made me want to shoot my flintlocks more. I cant wait to try it in my .40 flinter.
Fleener
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You all back east must have different BP than out west. Who still makes 7F powder and what's the cost? Swiss Null is so much more costly to be prohibitive. Since we don't have the heat and humidity as some states have I have never found a reason to use anything other than 4F, but am curious?
Also I keep reading about people having to change out their prime because it becomes "soupy" how long are you leaving it in the pan? I am out in the elements 12 months a year with my flintlocks. Other than the couple of times I got caught in a torrential downpour I go all day with the same prime. At the end of the day or when I get in a vehicle I will blow it out, still looking like when I put it in.
Again not doubting your stories, just curious.
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On a moist day here in central BC, where the ambient humidity is 50%, fouling is snow white and water does not form in the pan, nor cause wetting of the prime, even
after 1 of 40 shots.
If the humidity is 85% or over, water will form in the pan after a shot, due to the fouling absorbing moisture from the air.
I love shooting at Hefley Creek every year for the BC Rendezvous. The humidity is usually in the 20's and sometimes dips to 5 or 6%. Fouling is again, snow white and no
moisture EVER forms in the pan. However, if it is pouring rain, the humidity might get up to 80%, but nowadays, i don't shoot in those conditions. Too much to do in a chair,
under an awning, talking with friends and sharing stories and booze.
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I found some at the Maine Powder House. I plan to make a BP order soon, so I will pick up a 1/2#. I did some research on Null B, and the reason I think it clumps up is that it is not coated with graphite like the other powders. Graphite was added to powder for better flow rate, and more moisture resistance.
Graphite, historically, was used to make a cheap, poorly polished powder look better. Powder is moisture resistant as a result of ingredients. No powder will tolerate liquid water. Powder made with impure saltpeter will suck up humidity alone. Powder made with pure saltpeter will as well but to a lesser extent and will give it back up to the air when the humidity drops.
If you think your powder is soaking up moisture from the air to the point of being unusable and you are using Swiss especially. Think about powder in a magazine of a warship in 1770 or 1790. The ready powder charges in wool bags. Then ask yourself, if the ship is 3 or 6 months at sea or longer, how did the powder remain viable in the magazine below the waterline? If the powder is failing due to humidity I recommend you put 20 grains by weight in an open dish and put it in an unheated garage or a covered porch where it is protected from any liquid moisture and see if it degrades in a few days. For fun you can weigh it to see how much if any moisture it has picked up. Then put it in the sun to let it dry and weight it again.
Dan
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Again I will ask:
What's up with 7F powder? I can't find it anywhere and have never even seen a can (empty or full). As well as Goex 4F works I can't believe I could do better but am always willing to learn. As to to the Swiss Null when I saw the price i about dropped over. For that price it should carry my rifle and prime it for me.
Who uses 7F, where did you get it and who made it.
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The Aussies are paying $80.00 for a pound of GOEX powder.
If you shoot 85gr. per shot, that's about $0.97 per shot, just for powder alone.
Caps here are now about $0.10 per cap, so $1.07 - + .03 for lead (15bore ball), so $1.10 per shot in Aussy land
for my 14 bore rifle for the plinking load.
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I bought two cans of the so called 7f at a shoot. It is slightly finer than Null-B. Might have been floor sweepings for all I know. It wasn't in a labeled can. Just a Goex can with magic marker labeling. It works well as the rest.
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This question might blow up in my face.... ;)
But what are thoughts on crushing something like Goex or Swiss 4f in a non conductive mortar and pestle? Something like ceramic or stone?
Probably wouldn't take too much pressure to make a little bit at a time, and as long as you weren't trying to hammer down on a large shot at a time it should be FAIRLY safe no?
Say something like 20grs at a time gently crushed.
Even if it went up there wouldn't be any pressure and the poof would probably be little more than a bladder check.
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Blader check and some scorched fingers maybe. ;)
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The 7F powder is made for fireworks use.
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This question might blow up in my face.... ;)
But what are thoughts on crushing something like Goex or Swiss 4f in a non conductive mortar and pestle? Something like ceramic or stone?
Probably wouldn't take too much pressure to make a little bit at a time, and as long as you weren't trying to hammer down on a large shot at a time it should be FAIRLY safe no?
Say something like 20grs at a time gently crushed.
Even if it went up there wouldn't be any pressure and the poof would probably be little more than a bladder check.
yes - you could likely do that and get away with it, in a mortar and pestle. I find it easier to just buy 4F and a pound lasts about a year.
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There was a fellow from Arkansas selling powder at the Western Nationals about 10 years ago. He sold 7f powder and labeled it as Gator powder. It worked well in our dry climate. However it tended to cake up when I used i in the Midwest. In really humid conditions I prefer to use 3f in the pan specially for hunting.