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General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: mountainman on October 03, 2019, 09:33:46 PM

Title: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: mountainman on October 03, 2019, 09:33:46 PM
I know that there is probably other threads out there, just wondering if you guys know what is best for a load? like recommended powder charge for a 36 cal.?? barrel length is 41 and half inch in length made by Getz.
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: Daryl on October 03, 2019, 09:51:36 PM
My .36 cal Rice barrel likes 40gr. 3F GOEX, and either a .350" or .360" pure lead ball and .020" to .022" patch.
Loading with either, is quite easy. The .360" ball will actually elongate slightly with round ends due to the round
 starter knob and round ram-rod end. My rifle has a 5/16" hickory rod. Loading with either ball is not difficult.
I suggest you start at 35gr. and go from there.  If I was going to use my rifle for other than bunnies and trail walks,
as in coyote or wolf hunting,  I would experiment with up to 50gr. 3F for possibly flatter trajectory and better longer
range accuracy.
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: Fyrstyk on October 04, 2019, 01:02:41 AM
With my .36's, I start out with 35 grains of 3f and work up from there to find the load the gun likes.  three of my .36's have 1:48" twist barrels and shoot the 35 grain load real good.  Higher amounts of powder tend to open the groups up.  My family heirloom, Leman .36 has a 40" barrel and a 1:60" twist.  It likes 45 grains of 3f best.  It also does well with a reduced load of 25 grains out to 30 yards or so
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: hanshi on October 04, 2019, 01:16:28 AM
It really depends on what you shoot at and how far you shoot.  My .36 likes anything between 20 grns and 30 grns of 3F.  The 20 grain load is accurate up to about 80 yards but you have to pay attention to drop.  The 30 grain load isn't needed for squirrels and the like but is better for varmints.
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: silly goose on October 04, 2019, 02:12:22 AM
When I hunted squirrels with a .36, 20 gr fffg and a tight patch was all I needed for as far as I could hit them.  That load would cloverleaf at 25 yards and shoot completely lengthwise through a squirrel.  I didn't need anymore than that.  42" Green Mountain barrel.

Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: mountainman on October 04, 2019, 02:53:53 AM
Thanks all for your comments. As far as what a gun likes the best as far as loads go, question is what are you looking for in that? Is it better grouping, or less unburned powder? or both?
Since my powder measurement isn't less than 40 grains, I'll need to figure how much blackpowder that actually is?
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: MuskratMike on October 04, 2019, 04:20:01 AM
If shooting a small caliber tight groups is all you need to know.
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: Daryl on October 04, 2019, 06:22:28 AM
Thanks all for your comments. As far as what a gun likes the best as far as loads go, question is what are you looking for in that? Is it better grouping, or less unburned powder? or both?
Since my powder measurement isn't less than 40 grains, I'll need to figure how much blackpowder that actually is?

Considering all of the powder is burned in the first couple inches of barrel, no matter the bore size, there is no, ie: zero unburned powder with any charge you are likely to use.
Accuracy is what determines the load to use. Use a load that gives you the accuracy you need for your purpose.
Note that most small bore guns, below about .69" need more power with an oiled or greased patch used for hunting, than what they like for a water based lube, commonly used
for target shooting.  My .69 shoots the same with oiled/greased or water based lubes with identical powder charges.
In my .40 and .45 cal rifles, they required 10gr. more powder to shoot the slippery oil patched loads. That oil was LHV.
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: alacran on October 04, 2019, 10:56:28 AM
I have a GMT A weight barrel in my squirrel rifle. It shoots great with 40 grains 3f Goex.  To knock down NRA center fire pistol silhouette rams at 100 yards requires 60 grains.
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: Mike Brooks on October 04, 2019, 02:23:13 PM
Depends on the twist, rifling style and depth, actual bore size, brand of powder and what ever the gun @!*% well pleases. There is no one answer, you have to get out there and shoot it.
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: Lobo on October 04, 2019, 05:24:52 PM
I have a .36 built by Jud Brennan. It has a swamped Getz barrel. I started out with 35 to 40gr's of 3ff with a patched .350 ball. Accuracy wasn't good. I talked to Getz and he said that barrel would shoot best with a 20 to 25gr load
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: mountainman on October 04, 2019, 09:31:31 PM
I have a .36 built by Jud Brennan. It has a swamped Getz barrel. I started out with 35 to 40gr's of 3ff with a patched .350 ball. Accuracy wasn't good. I talked to Getz and he said that barrel would shoot best with a 20 to 25gr load
That's seems to be my experience as well, the more powder I add it's seems not to group as good, if I drop the powder charge it groups better.. like 20 or 25 grains of 3f, since I don't have a powder measurement that small, I'm going by guess work, I can kinda compare, with my powder measurement how much less it would be by the lines.. I suppose I should buy one of those scales..
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: Daryl on October 04, 2019, 09:37:03 PM
Not sure what makes Getz barrels want to shoot less powder. Does anyone know what twist he used in the .36's?  Mine is 48", same as the .32 I had and the .40.

If you use patches that are too thin, then very light powder charges will shoot best for you.  If you use tight loads, you will shoot more accurately, and will find you also
need to use more powder- for shooting past 25 yards, that is, if you want to get the best accuracy from the gun.  If mediocre accuracy is good enough for your purpose,
then by all means shoot light loads & save on powder.
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: Mike Brooks on October 05, 2019, 12:58:18 AM
I have a .36 built by Jud Brennan. It has a swamped Getz barrel. I started out with 35 to 40gr's of 3ff with a patched .350 ball. Accuracy wasn't good. I talked to Getz and he said that barrel would shoot best with a 20 to 25gr load
That's seems to be my experience as well, the more powder I add it's seems not to group as good, if I drop the powder charge it groups better.. like 20 or 25 grains of 3f, since I don't have a powder measurement that small, I'm going by guess work, I can kinda compare, with my powder measurement how much less it would be by the lines.. I suppose I should buy one of those scales..
Scales....weight and volume are two different things.
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: Mike from OK on October 05, 2019, 01:51:48 AM
Thanks all for your comments. As far as what a gun likes the best as far as loads go, question is what are you looking for in that? Is it better grouping, or less unburned powder? or both?
Since my powder measurement isn't less than 40 grains, I'll need to figure how much blackpowder that actually is?

Own a set of dial calipers?

Measure the diameter and depth of your current 40 grain measure and use those measurements.

For instance... If it measures .500" diameter and .500" deep at 40 grains then a half inch hole at .250" deep would equal 20 grains.

Or a .250" diameter hole at .500" deep should be the same volume of 20 grains.

Knowing this will allow you to fabricobble a temporary measure out of disposable material until you find the charge that works best in your gun... Then you can make or buy a measure once you develop your pet load.

Make sense?

Mike
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: Mike from OK on October 05, 2019, 02:05:35 AM
I just checked my adjustable measure which has an inside diameter of .500"...

At 20 grains the depth is .412"

At 25 grains the depth is .512"

So if you drill half inch hole a half inch deep it should egual roughly 25 grains of powder... It isn't perfect because if you use a regular drill bit it won't leave a flat bottom.

Or you could drill a 1/4 inch hole one inch deep.

Should get you close.

Mike
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: mountainman on October 05, 2019, 05:49:33 AM
Thanks for the that input Mike, I'll have to try that. I don't know what an empty 30-06 cartridge is in diameter, but I took one of those to make a powder measurement, ( since I don't have any thing else ) I cut it down till I got it about the right size, now I'll have to check out your procedure and see how that compares, being that I was making guess work..
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: mountainman on October 05, 2019, 06:02:35 AM

(https://i.ibb.co/ZxJ92Hj/IMG-20191004-181955636.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m4BpNvj)
And I got some shooting in today, I had to make a couple of adjustments, but the picture is on the last 2 shots, it was shooting about the 11:00 position, and then I ended with these 2 shots, I felt like it was grouping nicely, might try to zero in a little closer. I was using approximately 25 grains of 3F powder and .010 thick of shooting patches, ( pillow ticking ) and bear grease, and round ball .350
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: Lobo on October 05, 2019, 02:02:03 PM
Tap that sight over a might (front sight left or rear sight right) and you'll be makin head shots on them bushy tails.
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: Fyrstyk on October 05, 2019, 02:52:31 PM
If I recall correctly, a .38 special case holds about 25 grains of 3f.  Somewhere I saw a list of brass cartridge cases and their black powder capacities.  I know Dixie Gun works has a list published on page 565 of their2018 catalog.  The 38 special case holds 24 grains, the 45ACP holds 28 grains, and the 45 Long Colt holds 42 grains.  Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: Mike from OK on October 05, 2019, 07:39:18 PM
Thanks for the that input Mike, I'll have to try that. I don't know what an empty 30-06 cartridge is in diameter, but I took one of those to make a powder measurement, ( since I don't have any thing else ) I cut it down till I got it about the right size, now I'll have to check out your procedure and see how that compares, being that I was making guess work..

Hard to say what capacity of that brass case would be since it's tapered. Just have to try it and see.

Mike
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: Daryl on October 05, 2019, 08:45:30 PM
.38SPL case holds 24gr. Old Eni. 3F
.38SPL case holds 21.5gr. GOEX 3F
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: hanshi on October 05, 2019, 10:07:37 PM
While my .36 really likes 20 - 30 grains of 3F, for some reason my .32 does very well with 40 grains.  IMHO, 40 grns is a bit much for squirrels and I'm looking to get it working in the same range as the .36 - my most used rifle.  The .40 likes 30, 40 and 60 grains of 3F in its GM "B"? weight barrel.  Thirty grains is my choice for small game in that nice rifle.  This .40 group was fired with 30 grains.(https://image.ibb.co/k9gJUH/PICT0509-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: Lobo on October 05, 2019, 11:02:47 PM
I got my first flintlock, a .32 in 77. I don't remember how I settled on the load, all I know was I could shoot the eye out of a squirrel with 30gr's. When I got the .36 a few years ago I started with 35 to 40gr's which the gun didn't like.
Here's a string of fox squirrels with the .32....back in the day

(https://i.ibb.co/stxcwJ7/squirrels-with-32.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)

Jud Brennan also built the .32 poor boy that I named "Sweet Pea", I still have it and it still likes 30gr's 3ff





(https://i.ibb.co/tP540FB/Brace-of-squirrelks.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QjGfWt9)
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: Lobo on October 05, 2019, 11:18:24 PM
My Brennan .36 that I call "Slim Girl" if you held her you'd know the name fits.  8)


(https://i.ibb.co/D86s4x7/Brennan-36cal.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5nztTN5)
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: Mike Lyons on October 06, 2019, 02:02:08 AM
My .36 groups very well with a leviís jeans patch with 30 grains of 3f goex.  It was very finicky.  I pulled half my hair out trying to tighten up the groups. 
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: Mike from OK on October 06, 2019, 05:34:32 AM
Pedersoli recommended 28 min/40 max for my .32 Kentucky...

I started at 30 grains and thus far it has brained several squirrels for me. But one day I'll take the time to develop a load for it.

Mike
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: mountainman on October 06, 2019, 05:52:05 AM

(https://i.ibb.co/LpgZLTh/IMG-20191005-152824979-HDR.jpg) (https://ibb.co/s31V0TJ)

(https://i.ibb.co/HHLmB9s/IMG-20191005-152756424.jpg) (https://ibb.co/P6sBFVn)

(https://i.ibb.co/r00ZMp1/IMG-20191005-152624447.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mTTHtyM)

(https://i.ibb.co/ZYf81qQ/IMG-20191005-152617267.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QCJNjyW)

(https://i.ibb.co/zNbB2zG/IMG-20191005-151953603.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g6wfWxz)

(https://i.ibb.co/3Mbzp9j/IMG-20191005-150701415.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0FLtCR6)

(https://i.ibb.co/7Vj0tyD/IMG-20191005-145525728.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vmVM4zW)

(https://i.ibb.co/cFxdc3J/IMG-20191005-144009950-HDR.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gT6CM9y)
Thanks all for your help and input, I did some more shooting today, I felt like I was getting somewhere.
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: mountainman on October 06, 2019, 05:59:51 AM
The bottom picture was the first target, and then I replaced with a second one.
On the the second target, I took a picture of each shot, up to the third shot, and then I felt like she was grouping fairly well right where I was aiming for.
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: mountainman on October 06, 2019, 06:03:33 AM
Nice harvest of squirrels Lobo, I'd say your guns does a good job of collecting them.
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: Lobo on October 06, 2019, 06:59:10 AM
Now you're ready for them tree rats with that purdy rifle


(https://i.ibb.co/qMdfxf1/thumbs-up.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: WESTbury on October 07, 2019, 03:03:13 PM
 Scales....weight and volume are two different things.
[/quote]

Wow, would have never guessed.
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: Mike Brooks on October 07, 2019, 03:32:14 PM
Scales....weight and volume are two different things.

Wow, would have never guessed.
[/quote]
 There's a lot of startlements out there.
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: WESTbury on October 07, 2019, 04:51:03 PM
Mike--Indeed there are.

Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: mountainman on October 10, 2019, 05:14:07 AM
Scales....weight and volume are two different things.

Wow, would have never guessed.
There's a lot of startlements out there.
[/quote]
Yeah ain't that the truth,  you still learn, " powder charges" plus shooting patch materials,  and thickness...bending barrels.. ☺
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: Mike Lyons on October 10, 2019, 05:21:45 AM
I have proof that bending a barrel works!!
Title: Re: Shooting a 36 cal. for a first
Post by: Daryl on October 10, 2019, 10:23:41 AM
I use an adjustable measure for testing loads in my rifles. When I find the adjustment that works, I 'throw' a bunch of those on the scale, weighing them to find
what the weight was, that works. I (record that weight for the rifle, patch and ball) then make a measure to throw that amount /weight of powder. I find if the
measure has a 3/8" inside diameter, I can throw charges with it, that vary no more than a couple tenths of a grain.  The larger the diameter, the more variation
shot to shot there is in the weight thrown.
Tapping the side of the measure, then topping it off, as Pete noted, works well, but - you MUST do that the same each time or the thrown charge will vary.
Knowing and recording what that rifle likes, allows you to make a new measure to throw that weight of powder, if you lose the first one.