AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: jambuster on October 25, 2019, 12:22:30 AM
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Well I bought a Lyman Great Plains Rifle two years ago and have never had the chance to shoot it. Every time I get it out something else comes up. I am going to try next weekend and I was just looking at how poorly the manufacturer assembled it. There is no finish on the stock (stain gets on my hand when I pick it up) and the stock is the poorest quality walnut I have ever seen used on a gun. The wood to metal fit is terrible. Those things are all bad but the thing that really bothers me is the flats on the barrel are slightly rounded and not milled flat. I have a friend with one bought back in the 80’s or 90’s and it is really well done. I’m sure it will shoot fine but I would have a hard time recommending Lyman to anybody else.
Also last year I had to send the original barrel back because of a recall. To Lyman’s credit they took care of this issue with no problems. However, the first barrel was done correctly and when I got the new barrel I was just very disappointed. I put the whole thing back in the closet and stopped looking at it. I really wanted a TVM Leman but I wasn’t sure I was going to shoot it enough to justify the cost. The Lyman rifle looked close to a Hawken and seemed reasonable. Really wish I hadn’t invested $650.00 in the Lyman.
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Did you buy the rifle new, in the box or second hand? If second hand, it could be a poorly assembled kit gun.
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New from Mid South Shooters Supply. I probably should have bought the kit version because I probably won't be happy till I fix these problems which means next summer I will probably clean the stock up and put on a real finish. Then I will see if I can't file the "barrel flats" flat. Everything is mechanically sound I just think there is a serious lack of quality control at the manufacturer. This is a mechanically simple design that is just poorly executed.It is a shame because there is not much in this price range that looks like a real Plains Gun. I shoot predators a lot but I have been trying to get back into "Traditional Black Powder" for the last couple of years. I may order a TVM in the spring......
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The quality years ago was pretty good now its horrible.My son bought one last year wood to metal fit was horrible. The lock would get stuck on half cock then randomly free fall pretty scary. Sent it back to them after three weeks they sent another gun still horrible metal to wood fit. Went to clean the barrel and there was a three inch section of the barrel the ramrod and patch would free fall before engaging the rifling again. That was the last straw just sent it back and went another route.
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I have a older GPR, maybe from the 90`s, and a 5 year old Trade Rifle. The GPR is a percussion and still shoots excellent and the Trade Rifle is a Flinter and the lock sparks like Hellfire and is easy on flints and is accurate. I was going to buy a Deerstalker, but from all the negativity, ain`t gonna now !!
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Also check the breechplug casting closely. A fellow sent me pics of one of these nightmares, and the bplug had a hole in the hook end that went in to the barrel bore. I also had one built in the 80-90s, was assembled correctly ,looked like a plains rifle and was helluva gong beater. Sold it for more than I paid. Have a goodun. Dave 8) 8)
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You get what you pay for.
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It wasn’t long ago $650 would get you a helluva nice factory gun. Most of these wouldn’t pry $100 out of my wallet. There are many a decent rifle built in the 60’s-80’s that can be had for $650 and be more HC and better made to boot.
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Bob nailed it. Buy a 1970s rifle in great shape.
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The quality issue here is too bad because a new person to the hobby should be able to get a reasonably well built gun for $650.00 IMHO. Additionally they have been supplying this gun for 30 years or more . You would think they had the manufacturing down.
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The quality issue here is too bad because a new person to the hobby should be able to get a reasonably well built gun for $650.00 IMHO. Additionally they have been supplying this gun for 30 years or more . You would think they had the manufacturing down.
$650? I pay $300 for a barrel, $200 for a lock and $200 for a piece of wood. That's $700 and I still need mounts and have to make the gun yet. For $650 I'm I'd be surprised it even works.
I believe back in the day those Lymans were made in the USA and weren't bad quality. Aren't they Eyetalian now?
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I have a GPR and it looks good and shoots real good, made in Italy and it is left handed 50 cal.
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The quality issue here is too bad because a new person to the hobby should be able to get a reasonably well built gun for $650.00 IMHO. Additionally they have been supplying this gun for 30 years or more . You would think they had the manufacturing down.
Oh, they have the manufacturing down all right. When a t-shirt was $15 and we lived in the shadow of the factory we moaned under the weight of it all. Now t-shirts are $5 a dozen and the factories are full of ghost hunters filming shows I can watch in my itchy, ill-fitting, screamer-of-a-deal, white t-shirt. YMMV.
Also, just like anything else, a new person can get a well built gun for $650, he just has to be able to navigate the hucksters. I forget who said it, maybe Ford, but it’s a thing I try to live by, “Don’t buy anything that is advertised, because if it is worth what they ask and necessary you’d already have one”. It’s not necessarily practical to follow that explicitly but it’s a good rule of thumb to bring to mind whenever you contemplate a purchase. That being said, most people don’t ‘contemplate’ much anymore I hear.
IMHO.
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Got out today and finallly shot my gun. Even though it doesn't look as good as it could it did shoot well. i was using 90grains of Graff fffg , Hornaday .530 ball, Remington #11 cap , TC prelubed patch .015".
I could only shoot two rounds and then it became very difficult to load. A quick swab with CVA barrel blaster and I was back in business. The barrel seemed smooth and clean up was very easy
Going to try again Friday. Seems good so far.
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One more thing ! I am finally back shooting traditional black powder rifles and it was loads of fun.
Jambuster
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Meh, sounds like a typical GPR to me.
Cosmetically they are pretty ugly, but they’re tough and dependable guns with a reputation for good accuracy. More correct styling than many other imported guns. I’ve since sold my GPR because it had some design qualities I didn’t care for (awful microscopic Allen head cleanout bolt that bottoms on the nipple threads, patent breech which is a hassle to clean, etc.) but it was a good shooting gun and would make a fine beater gun for hunting.
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When cleaning cap-lock guns, I remove the nipple, stick that end of the barrel in a bucket of cold tap water, and pump water into and out of the bore
to clean it. I then remove the barrel, wipe it dry, then using 4 to 5 doubled flannelette patches, I dry the bore, then spray WD40 into the bore until
it runs out the nipple seat, then patch that out, wipe down the barrel, replace the nipple, replace the barrel on the gun & store the rifle muzzle down
so any excess oil from the breech area can drain out. Here, with a humidity of about 50% average, there is no further rust prevention needed. In your
climate, rust preventive requirements might be different.
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The only Lyman GPR that I ever owned shot so well. I set it up with a Lyman rear peep sight with adjustable aperture and a globe front sight with inserts. With that set up, it compensated for a lot of my short comings. Still have trophies, plaques, and signed targets from those days. Enjoyable times!
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The quality issue here is too bad because a new person to the hobby should be able to get a reasonably well built gun for $650.00 IMHO. Additionally they have been supplying this gun for 30 years or more . You would think they had the manufacturing down.
Sounds to me like the lowest bidder has struck again.
Bob Roller
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Well Bob I guess you are trying to say you get what you pay for or the GPR is just a cheap gun. Maybe so but clearly not everyone can a afford a custom or simi custom gun . There are much cheaper options than the GPR out there ; Traditions products for instance. There are numerour accounts of these shooting aa well as my GPR DOES. I was just expecting more for $650 and wasn't looking to buy a show piece.
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If this is a new factory built rifle (regardless of where you bought it), call or e-mail Lyman. A couple of years ago I bought one of their G.P. Pistols in cap lock. While the fit and finish were mediocre at best it shot well and functioned fine. They are known as a customer friendly company, with enough photo evidence and documentation you might be surprised by what they are willing to do to help you. It's worth a try.
I have since sold the pistol (cheap) to a club to raffle off and had a custom made pistol built. However not everyone have the resources to do so.
Post what happened when you notified Lyman of the quality issues.
Merry Christmas (yes I said Christmas)
The "Muskrat"
(https://i.ibb.co/g9gxmvK/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4tNHKsr)
(https://i.ibb.co/XbQTyKc/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DtJnGv0)
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My Lyman GPR has many of the same fit/finish issues as jambuster and tilefish. Every barrel flat has end mill swirl marks the full length of the barrel. The first time I tried to pull the ramrod out of the rifle the brass end came off in my hand. The whole rifle is trimmed in iron so it's odd to me that the ramrod had brass ends. The stock and ramrod finish looked like brown paint. It's like some kind of stain/oil mix that was given one sloppy coat. I was kinda shocked at the poor fit and finish and took it back to where I bought it. They brought out 1/2 a dozen others from the stock room and we opened them up to compare. None were better and some were worse! The rifle is a shooter though and I've since reworked the stock and metal. The kits are only about $100 cheaper than the assembled rifles and what you get is about a $100 assembly job.
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I have since sold the pistol (cheap) to a club to raffle off and had a custom made pistol built. However not everyone have the resources to do so.
Merry Christmas (yes I said Christmas)
The "Muskrat"
(https://i.ibb.co/g9gxmvK/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4tNHKsr)
(https://i.ibb.co/XbQTyKc/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DtJnGv0)
I don't want to hijack the thread, but that's a nice pistol, MuskratMike! Is that from Lowell Haarer?
Back to the Lyman issue: I bought a Lyman Great Plains Pistol from Dixie Gun Works maybe 20 years ago... I'm not sure, but it was a while back. I'm pretty happy with the fit and finish, for a production gun. My only issues were that the rear sight notch was too narrow (no daylight on either side of the front sight), the shapeless lock bolt inlay (if you don't use the belt hook), the ugly snail, and the grip is not very ergonomic. I've often thought an outfit like Pecatonica River could come up with an aftermarket replacement stock with a better and more traditional grip design and better wood. I doubt that will ever happen, though. I've had no problems with the gun, and the lock, trigger, and barrel are fine. These imported production guns will never measure up to the quality of custom guns, but you get what you pay for. I believe a pistol like MuskratMike's will cost you around $1600.00.
However, you fellows have given the impression that maybe Lyman's quality has deteriorated. If I were to buy a GPR, I would most likely look at used ones of an older vintage. Track of the Wolf and the Gun Works usually have several, and they will give you an honest description of the guns they have for sale. The online gun markets like GunBroker and Guns America usually have dozens of them at any given time.
Best regards,
Notchy Bob
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Notchy Bob: you have a good eye. Yes it is 1/2 of a matched pair rifle/pistol I had Lowell Haarer make for me . The pair are featured on his web page under "recent projects" or look at my post under contemporary builders from November 27th. I have got to the age where I would gladly have fewer numbers if I can increase quality. Hardly have the time to shoot the ones I have now.
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Over the years, I have built several of their kits. I think the first was a Kentucky pistol (!) in .45 cal. This was back in the early '70's, and the kits were really fun, quick builds. Every thing on all 5 of the kits fitted and shot beautifully.
But I have seen some newer kits, and was not impressed by fit at all.
Pedersoli seems to provide decent kits, although they are a bit pricier. Built one of their "Bounty Hunter" .45's, with a 16 3/8" bbl. That one, the barrel was so long that I checkered the forestock so it could be shot with two hands. Excellent accuracy with that rifled barrel - was shooting 1" groups at 50 yards. Had great wood, also.
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Once again, the GPR is made by Investarms. With a few minor details, it and the Investarms Hawken are identical except the GPR is iron mounted and the Hawken is brass mounted. About 25 years ago a MS dealer had a 3 kit deal, so I bought 3 of them. Built 2 for my sons and sold the 3rd one. This is one of them. I added a toeplate and a different T-gard. Stained with CRO3 and wet sanded back using the sludge as a grain filler. Finished with tung oil.
(https://i.ibb.co/XJj9WsX/Scott3.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/mzgtS68/Scott4.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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Looks like you added a lot of quality /for sure Ed
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As I mentioned earlier I have now been out shooting my GPR a few times and it is very reliable and has proven to be very accurate . So even though it is aesthetically not where I would like it to be it does seem to be a solid shooter . I did replace the ramrod with a Delrin plastic rod from TOW.