AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Cajun72 on November 07, 2019, 07:06:41 PM
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Well I really want to get a Kibler SMR. But I want a percussion lock instead, like the Whitson rifle. What is the easiest way to accomplish this?
Thanks
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You could convert the lock as done originally.
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You could convert the lock as done originally.
I think this would be a great project for someone. Would be really cool.
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The Siler mountain percussion has the same internals has the Ketland.Buy a mountain percussion and a new Ketland plate.
Fit the internals to a Ketland plate,install a drum and fit the new plate. You can sell the lock that came with your kit and recoup your money for the conversion.
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Here is a picture of a Chambers late Ketland flintlock converted to percussion. It has been flint stripped and a large Siler percussion hammer installed in lieu of the flintlock cock. Very easy conversion. I squared the tail on this lock which youwould not be able to do on a Kibler kit.
David
(https://i.ibb.co/ths5GrV/IMG-3434.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1nqxgWF)
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This is a mountain pistol i built using a converted Chambers ketland
(https://i.ibb.co/zQqL7sM/1003171448b.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QpyqC9g)
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I just love reading these posts and seeing amazing talent and practice on display. Joe, that is one beautiful pistol. Dave, that is some super clean conversion work....up to your usual high bar. God Bless, Marc
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You could convert the lock as done originally.
I think this would be a great project for someone. Would be really cool.
There was one for sale on TOW a while ago.
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Great advice here. Going to order the Kibler kit and do a percussion conversion. Nice Mt pistol by the way.
Thanks
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If you have a 13/16ths inch barrel and it is a .45 caliber it would be advisable to rebreach with a longer breechplug with a communication hole. This way you would have much more thread contact for the drum threads. If my math is correct the walls of a .45 caliber in 13/16ths is only 0.1812 in thickness. 13/16 = 0.8125 - .450 = 0.3625 divided by 2 = 0.18125 inch. Even 40 caliber is around 2/10ths of an inch thick in the sidewall. With all this being said and anyone correct me if my arithmetic is wrong, you'll need to order the rifle from Mr. Kibler without the 5/16 x 32 tapped hole as you will most likely be using a 5/16 x 24 drum thread.
If your new rifle will be a .45 I'd have the breech tapped about a half inch longer and make me a breech plug out of a 5/8 x 18 bolt and weld the existing tang to the top of that bolt. Then measure and drill a communication hold about 5/16ths inch in diameter in the center of the bolt being careful to measure and not go too deep for ( BP mud collection). Polish the hole and the face of the new plug and install. Then you can drill that drum hole through the barrel and into the new plug and intersect the hole. Strong set up for a thin walled barrel.
If your getting your gun in .32 then disregard what I've written as I may not know what I'm talking about although I have done this several times over the years. Some people think I eccentric anyway. (probably am)
But I have seen drums put in these thin barrels before with just a few threads holding and locktighted in and used for years. But I try not to stand beside them when we shoot in competition.
And to add to all this I bought one of Mr. Kibler's mountain rifles in .45 and walnut last May or was it June? Man it is a shooter. I won 1st place in the Marksmen class for flint hunting rifles at Friendship this past September with a score of 164 (all offhand). I have shot many 50 yard scores in the high 40's since I put this rifle together.
Bob
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Here is a picture of a Chambers late Ketland flintlock converted to percussion. It has been flint stripped and a large Siler percussion hammer installed in lieu of the flintlock cock. Very easy conversion. I squared the tail on this lock which youwould not be able to do on a Kibler kit.
David
(https://i.ibb.co/ths5GrV/IMG-3434.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1nqxgWF)
That's a really cool conversion. Did you turn you own drum? It's a neat alternative to the commercial offerings. I'd like to hear some details about that. R.E. Davis has a square-tail Late English percussion lock that could work from the get-go. Now if we could just get Jim to consider offering the option of not pre-inletting the stock for a lock.
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Here is a picture of a Chambers late Ketland flintlock converted to percussion. It has been flint stripped and a large Siler percussion hammer installed in lieu of the flintlock cock. Very easy conversion. I squared the tail on this lock which you would not be able to do on a Kibler kit.
David
That's a really cool conversion. Did you turn you own drum? It's a neat alternative to the commercial offerings. I'd like to hear some details about that. R.E. Davis has a square-tail Late English percussion lock that could work from the get-go. Now if we could just get Jim to consider offering the option of not pre-inletting the stock for a lock.
When I did my lock conversion it was for a custom rifle, not a Kibler kit. With that said, my client was not fully on board with the concept of having a flint rifle so when I drilled the barrel for the drum I drilled and tapped it to accept a 5/32-32 touch hole liner knowing that in the future I could remove the drum and install a white lightning liner, which I did before the client took possession of the rifle. I had to make my own drum which was no big deal as I have a lathe and only had to purchase a 5/32-32 threading die.
David
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If one was going to convert one of Mr. Kibler's locks to percussion, where would the hammer come from?
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get a 0.625" x 1.5" x 3" block of steel.. Whittle away everything that doesn't look like a hammer!!!
Not being an ass, I've done it before.
Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan
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Curious,
On the conversion, what kind of throw are you looking at for the percussion hammer?? Don't know the measurements of the lock you have, but if you give me an idea of what you might need
I can look through the stuff in my shop. I may have a hammer blank down there I could send you???
Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan
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If one was going to convert one of Mr. Kibler's locks to percussion, where would the hammer come from?
Make an insert from some round stock, position it into the jaws, braze the insert in and you have a conversion.....
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Dave: I'm sure you meant 5/16" x 32 tpi drum, tap, and die.
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Make your hammer as snazzy as the one on the Bob Roller lock shown in Taylor's recent thread on "saving" a build.
Is what I'd do.
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I think we'll offer a percussion option in this. Probably in 6-12 months. We're working hard on a English export style lock for these kits right now. It wouldn't be too much more work to make a percussion lock that would otherwise be the same. So many projects! The good news is that we're figuring things out and the development of each new project is going faster. We're making good progress on the Ketland style lock. I'd expect it will be ready in 8-10 weeks. Should be REALLY sweet.
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Do you have any pics of these English export locks?
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I think we'll offer a percussion option in this. Probably in 6-12 months. We're working hard on a English export style lock for these kits right now. It wouldn't be too much more work to make a percussion lock that would otherwise be the same. So many projects! The good news is that we're figuring things out and the development of each new project is going faster. We're making good progress on the Ketland style lock. I'd expect it will be ready in 8-10 weeks. Should be REALLY sweet.
Been waiting for this to happen, hopefully not 12 months!
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Dixie has a bunch of percussion hammers to choose from.
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Do you have any pics of these English export locks?
Here's a short video showing some of the cad model details. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLPftBEdy7s This was posted a few weeks ago. I've since made some changes, but it's fairly simple. I'll also be offering a waterproof pan version. It will have a high breasted cock (no pot-bellied ones for sure ;)) As I mentioned, the project is coming along well. Hopefully I will get a prototype tumbler machined today. Then it's just the mainspring and frizzen spring along with some casting work.
Jim
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Thanks Jim. Are these going to be a similar size as Chamber's Late Ketland? I am definitely interested in one with the waterproof pan. I was going to use the Ketland for an 1800-1815 English sporting rifle/shotgun, but this seems much better
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Justin,
Thanks. Yes, I think you'll be pleased. These will be 4.75" in length. I believe this is about 1/4" smaller than the Chambers product.
Jim
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Justin,
Thanks. Yes, I think you'll be pleased. These will be 4.75" in length. I believe this is about 1/4" smaller than the Chambers product.
Jim
Do you think there would be any issue using it on a 1 1/8" barrel?