AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: WadePatton on December 03, 2019, 06:58:14 PM
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I'm pretty well satisfied I want a 16 bore if I do a fowler, Southern edition. But it seems obvious that 20's are more common. It would likely be my only smoothie as I've always been more of a rifleman, despite owning a bunch of different modern smoothies over the years.
That being said I'm going to play with bare ball and round ball out of it just to see what it'll do. I plan to burn F powder as well. One dove shoot per year, maybe some turkey hunting, maybe a waterfowl outing when the opportunity strikes. And that's about it besides slinging big balls for fun and maybe rough country deer chasing-where 50 yards is a long shot.
Jug choking seems appropriate. .640 balls should ring a gong to.
If I was going to shoot it very much often, maybe I'd be more inclined to a 20. Is it as I view the "half step" rifle caliber debates like 50/54 or 54/58 arguments-where my take is one won't do anything much the other won't do?
What say ye of the smoothbore aficionados?
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I have always been told the 16 is a 12 in 20 clothing. If I did it over, I would definitely go with the 16. Will probably get one at some point anyway.
Mike
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If going for turkey the bigger bore seems the better choice. Waterfowl too
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In a blackpowder gun it seems to me there wouldn't be that much more power in a 16. Would a longer barrel say 46" or 48" be better than 36" for ducks?
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It all comes down to shot count, and pattern density. Bigger bores usually shoot bigger shot charges, but the pattern opens up rapidly giving you fewer pellets on the actual target at longer ranges. Smaller bores concentrate the shot in a smaller bore, which stays in a tighter group longer. The problem is the smaller bores also suffer from a long shot string that creates its own problems when wing shooting. For standing targets like turkeys, the longer shot string isn’t a big problem, but for game like pheasant, and quail, the long shot string make it hard to get the lead just right.
Hungry Horse
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I’m a 16 gauge fan myself, I grew up toting one in the field quail & squirrel hunting .
Although it was a modern gun, it influenced my choice later in a smooth bore gun.
My choice was an easy one, thirst I called Tip Curtis asking about a barrel .
While at his shop he showed me a 44” Colerain barrel in the white smoothbore with an L & R lock, which I’ve had zero issues out of... other than getting the correct ball size.
(https://i.ibb.co/tcJqP3V/90926126-692-A-4092-B4-C3-F7-FACEFAE2-AD.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/Srm45zP/F309-C0-E3-BEDD-4702-9-F1-A-0-A37785-ABF0-A.jpg)
Target was shot without a patch , benched at 25 yards..
This was after numerous attempts at shooting patched round balls of .620 & .626 size from various Vendors.
Finally getting some .648 round balls that the above target was shot with using 70 grns of ffg .
Since then I have found that a .642 hand cast ball shoots well with out a patch also using the same load.
Good Luck in your choice, the only advantage I see in a .62 would be the availability of store bought round ball choices... over what’s available for a 16.
FYI my bore mics at .653...so shooting ffg or fg every 4 or 5 shots I run a damp cleaning patch followed by an alcohol patch prior too reloading.
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I would go with the 16 bore, Wade. Better ball and heavier normal shot charge, shorter shot column.
The larger the ball, the better the accuracy - or at least, should be better accuracy.
.640" ball (Tanner) would be my choice, with substantial patch, of course.
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That’s the mold the .642’s are poured from..
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I have built/owned several of each and I am convinced that the 16 gives me less recoil for the same amount of shot at same (advertised) velocity. Plus the 16 will safely handle more shot if you need it.
Dennis
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Always the contrary guy at the bar, I like and have a 20ga. I do much prefer the 16 over the 12 for most applications and have owned both of these.
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I would go with the 16 bore, Wade. Better ball and heavier normal shot charge, shorter shot column.
The larger the ball, the better the accuracy - or at least, should be better accuracy.
.640" ball (Tanner) would be my choice, with substantial patch, of course.
Yes I'll have a Tanner mould for sure, and 640 should take a fat patch and also be loose enough for bare ball loading.
Thanks fellas, it won't be next week or anything, but it'll go on the list. ;D
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In a blackpowder gun it seems to me there wouldn't be that much more power in a 16. Would a longer barrel say 46" or 48" be better than 36" for ducks?
It'll be about 46" in bbl, Similar to an original Southern smoothie that Dick has with a 48" on it in 14-bore.
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A 16 bore barrel is nearly always lighter than a 20. Look at the ads and see the weights.
Hungry Horse,
I don't plan on a long post here, but bore constriction being the same, the larger bore does Not throw its shot wider. This has been proved in tests many times and to say a small bore shoots a tighter pattern in not true.
I don't write anything here if I am unsure of what I'm talking about.
The smaller bore has more pellets in contact with the barrel wall for a give charge. These pellets receive more damage and are weaker as a result, and may not fly as true as undamaged pellets.
I can give you chapter and verse for this, but do not really want to have to copy pages out here, as it takes more time than I have.
All the best,
Richard.
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I used a 16 bore Egg double the other day, same load as I use in my 12 bore W&C Scott percussion double, I was busting clays and found the 16 bore seemed to have more verlocity and carry as I shot a couple of clays at well over 40 yards. The 16 bore seems to have more punch than my 12 bore.
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I used a 16 bore Egg double the other day, same load as I use in my 12 bore W&C Scott percussion double, I was busting clays and found the 16 bore seemed to have more verlocity and carry as I shot a couple of clays at well over 40 yards. The 16 bore seems to have more punch than my 12 bore.
I didn't expect to hear anything like this, but then it dawned on me that because there's less volume in the 16 than 12 and therefore the same charge should give more velocity from the smaller bore. So I'll say it sounds ballistically logical to me.
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I have two 12's and two 20's. My last gun is a Fusil Fine 16ga and it's my favorite smoothbore. Her name is "Matilda" (fierce in battle) she has a 46" Colerain barrel. My friend who made the gun also made the side plate which he copied from a left hand original that was dug up in Louisiana.
She's light weight and balanced, shoots shot like a 12ga and shoots a round ball like a rifle
(https://i.ibb.co/j6BRntv/fusil5.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/WcRCnQx/ronturkey22019.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/p2W0zDb/ronturkey12019.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
salutation poem (https://poetandpoem.com/Ezra-Pound/Salutation)
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I have never owned a black powder smoothbore, (the half-finished 16 bore on the bench not withstanding), but I've always been fond of 16's, so when a 36" 16 gauge barrel by Ed Rayl showed up in the classifieds here a year or so ago, I snapped it up. Right now it's let into a nice piece of black walnut, with a Chambers round faced lock and home made trigger, waiting on me to find time to forge a buttplate and triggerguard. My premise for this completely imaginary project is a fowling piece stocked up somewhere on the North Carolina/Virginia frontier, with some salvaged parts and some gunsmith made parts. It'll be my personal turkey/upland game gun (southern mountain shotgun?). Guess we'll see how it turns out...
Greg
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I have never owned a black powder smoothbore, (the half-finished 16 bore on the bench not withstanding), but I've always been fond of 16's, so when a 36" 16 gauge barrel by Ed Rayl showed up in the classifieds here a year or so ago, I snapped it up. Right now it's let into a nice piece of black walnut, with a Chambers round faced lock and home made trigger, waiting on me to find time to forge a buttplate and triggerguard. My premise for this completely imaginary project is a fowling piece stocked up somewhere on the North Carolina/Virginia frontier, with some salvaged parts and some gunsmith made parts. It'll be my personal turkey/upland game gun (southern mountain shotgun?). Guess we'll see how it turns out...
Greg
If it's the barrel I'm thinking about, it should handle quite well with the weight between the hands. Should handle quite a load as well.
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James, this is indeed that barrel. A full 1.25” across the flats at the breech, the big Chambers lock fits it perfectly. Even with the stock still mostly square, it’s apparent that it’s going to handle quite well, and the shorter length will be a godsend for turkey and grouse hunting here in the mountains.
Greg
(https://i.ibb.co/Yh7DPcp/F18901-C5-F7-F2-4-B84-A8-C3-CC8-D5-C9-E15-BA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5LWYGrB)
(https://i.ibb.co/KqC11RR/01-A6-E712-8883-4-BE6-9249-4-D0-F412-F3982.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nchWWZZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/VxcRrNH/4-B6-B0-AE8-7-A3-E-4322-A960-44-F3-EE084-E4-D.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LrXmbPQ)
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Wade, I agree, that did occur to me at the time. Amazing old piece this Egg, shot heaps of clays that day and barely a miss or needing a second barrel.
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Gordon,
Was the Egg a flint or detonator?
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I think Rice makes an oct/rnd 16 ga. barrel out of 4140 that is very light, but only 41" in length, I believe. When I bought mine at the CLA Show, I was told that it was jug choked to be equivalent to a modified choke. A nice strong and light barrel (not real thick walled at the muzzle as you see in some 20's). James Levy
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Detonator, and not a flint conversion. I had to get a new set of cones custom made from a mate in the US. I shot from the gun down position, as the old man said, "shotgunning is just reflexes" Joseph Egg, it has appeared on the BMF and here in think.
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Thanks Gordon.
Yes, a decent detonator double handles very well usually. Not like a newer gun with light and shorter tubes, but very well still!
My old Boss feels a real thoroughbred still, even if made in 1837...
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Just acquired an old and beat-up "F. Alexander" percussion double in 16 ga. Mounts to my shoulder just fine, looking down the barrels with the front (and only) sight right on target.
The locks need some, well, a LOT of work on the tumblers and sears. Right side will fire from the half-cock position, left side doesn't seem to go back beyond half-cock. Barrels need a good polishing.
I am looking forward to using this 16 ga oldie both at the skeet range and in the woods. May even try a PRB at some point.
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A good fitting double is indeed a pleasure to handle.
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Craig,
I look forward to0 progress reports on the old double!
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A good fitting double is indeed a pleasure to handle.
What on Earth would I ever need a double for?
After I drove past a large group of hens, then a large group of jakes, I finally drove right up to the longbeards yesterday. These birds are largely corn fed by the dairy farmers next door. The calves and bulls get some of the feed, but these guys are all up in the feeders too:
(https://i.ibb.co/TYxHH3q/20191206-150732.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rFRZZrf)
It's something to see five or six strutting all together in the Spring. Turkeys also roam my woods, two dozen came by me last day I deer hunted, and also the woods of the great deer camp too, I've never tried 'em, but have good access in three counties.
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If you have a automatic feeder they will be there everyday when it kicks on?
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Down in Texas we had corn feeders that would throw out the corn at 8, 10, and 12. Generally, at about 7:45, there would be a line of 7-20 turkeys marching toward the feeder - they had even trod out a narrow trail!
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If you have a automatic feeder they will be there everyday when it kicks on?
Filling feeders is too much like farming to me. I got other stuff to do. :P
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A good fitting double is indeed a pleasure to handle.
What on Earth would I ever need a double for?
After I drove past a large group of hens, then a large group of jakes, I finally drove right up to the longbeards yesterday. These birds are largely corn fed by the dairy farmers next door. The calves and bulls get some of the feed, but these guys are all up in the feeders too:
(https://i.ibb.co/TYxHH3q/20191206-150732.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rFRZZrf)
It's something to see five or six strutting all together in the Spring. Turkeys also roam my woods, two dozen came by me last day I deer hunted, and also the woods of the great deer camp too, I've never tried 'em, but have good access in three counties.
:D - I was simply making a comment further to Richard's comment abut the handling of a 'fine' double gun.
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A good fitting double is indeed a pleasure to handle.
What on Earth would I ever need a double for?
After I drove past a large group of hens, then a large group of jakes, ...
:D - I was simply making a comment further to Richard's comment abut the handling of a 'fine' double gun.
Yes we've gone all over the map this thread. No biggie, as I've lots to learn of real scattergunning. I've hardly swung enough double bbl's to have an opinion there. Still have an O/U, but I haven't used it much. It's no BP.
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Sure would like to go and help rid you of those black feathered pests.
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10 bore, you'll not regret it.
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10 bore, you'll not regret it.
Yeah, I like big bores and if I get -into- flinging shot, then a 10 would likely be on the list. But this first one, I'd like to have a more realistic chance of liking how it performs with bore-sized balls. Or at least the practicality of that option.
Seventy-seven caliber balls eat up a LOT of Pb per thump. :o
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.735" ball is about right for a 10 bore smoothie coupled with a .030" patch. That's right around 600gr. depending on alloy. Yes - a LOT of ball weight per shot.
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Here's mine, Wm. Moore English Proof Marks...
(https://i.ibb.co/L6d6M19/B4899302-D222-4485-8642-3-DB6-CA06-EE19.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/VvmqG7G/C76-F38-DB-2655-45-EC-8-FF8-3439-EA57-E799.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/L8vh0Rx/FB07-B586-D2-B0-43-F9-8-B9-E-B4-F3-D339-B761.png)
I haven't taken the time to do any testing as of yet, But it's right around the corner.
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10 and 10 - appears about perfect, but Taylor's little Manton 15 bore is quite nice!
(https://i.ibb.co/bQxsYTd/cid-758-D5724-E859-4690-923-C-BDBA9-D8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zQ1XCpf)