AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: davec2 on December 05, 2019, 02:58:14 AM
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Well.....I need another project like I need a hole in the head, but I just had to order one of Jim's Colonial rifle kits. It arrived on Monday, snug in its crate and in perfect order. Of course, I opened the box immediately just to make sure the US Post Office had not worked any of its usual magic on the contents. All looked to be fine, so I removed all the parts and put them in a closet because I really, really don't have time to work on this anytime soon.
However.....I had an hour today and thought I would try and get the barrel draw filed. Now right out of the crate, the barrel had the expected tool marks full length along all of the flats....not really deep but significant enough that I thought I might not be able to get all the draw filing done in the hour I had. In addition, there was some discontinuity in the surfaces near the waist where the barrel was moved in the machine to complete the milling of each flat. Again, no criticism here, I just thought it would take a little more time in those areas to get the surface discrepancy filed out.
Just for fun, I took out my phone and opened the stop watch function. I hit the button on the stop watch and started in on one flat. It went really well and when I finished I reached over and hit the "stop" button.....5 minutes and 35 seconds. I timed each of the next four flats.....all less than 6 minutes. All five primary flats draw filed in less than 30 minutes. It went so quickly and well, I had time to finish up all eight flats...just for kicks. ;)
One last point of interest....as I was sweeping up the steel filings on the bench and floor I looked over and saw a gram scale on my bench that I use for making detonators for explosive charges. I weighed the steel filings to see how much metal I had removed......9.8 grams. So just in case anyone else out there was wondering how much metal you are taking off draw filing a barrel, there is is......right about 1.1 grams for each flat on a 43" barrel.
So, the barrel is now back in the closet and I have returned to doing what I am supposed to be doing. If I ever get a chance to put this one together, I will post the progress.
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I thought you might be posting how it only took you 6-1/2 hrs to complete it without finish. Your a lot faster at draw filing then I am, think it would take me at least twice as long.
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Yep. I just draw filed one of those barrels today. It went a lot quicker than expected. I didn’t time it because I was enjoying my coffee and paying close attention to my border collie but it couldn’t have taken much more than an hour. I have the barrel going through the cold brown process now.
So far I have 9 hours invested in this kit. It should be completed in another 6-8 hours. The only architectural changes that I have made are cheek piece molding and incised toe and forestock molding.
There is a lot of wood left to work with in the breech, wrist, and toe areas. I think it might be fun some day to dive into that part and make some chips fly.
The one thing that amazes me about these kits is how well the parts fit. In particular, the entry pipe. All of us who have spent time inletting an entry pipe can agree that this is a challenging and somewhat dreadful game. With the kit You can clean the casting flash off of Jim’s entry pipe and simply push it into place. Amazing.
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With the kit You can clean the casting flash off of Jim’s entry pipe and simply push it into place. Amazing.
Well, well then, you got away easy with it! I had to spend at least 20-30 seconds squaring up the CNC'd corners on the entry pipe finial inlet. Talk about work! :)
Norm
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Sounds like you found a pretty good file for the job! The file I've used leaves a super smooth surface but takes me well over an hour to get the job done. What are you using?
Thanks,
Gerald
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(https://i.ibb.co/mBBPsQn/AC822-F50-E50-A-4-C6-A-A512-E30563-D3-AAFC.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8BBQ3Fy)
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Bahco are good files. I use them here in the shop.
Dave. I figured you would have converted the metal filing weight to an average thickness of material removed! ;)
The barrels generally look worse than they are. The milling marks are usually quite shallow. With a good file and technique, it's not a big job.
Jason at Rice belt sands his usual barrels, but this doesn't work well for us as it's hard to control dimensions. In time we may try to develop a way to improve surface finish, but for now drawfiling works pretty well.
All the best,
Jim
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Glad don't have to weigh my filings. I'd never find them in my shop. It's all i can do to find the tools I'm using. Got to clean up sometime.
Bob
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Jim,
The surface finish on the barrels is just fine. After your comment, I did convert the 1.1 grams of steel removed per flat to a thickness. Assuming an average flat width of 0.4", a barrel length of 43", and a density for mild steel of 0.2904 lbs / in^3, the 1.1 grams of steel removed per flat to clean up the surface equates to 0.00053" in thickness. So, on average, the removal of a half a thousandth of an inch of material results in a smooth file finish with no remaining tool marks. I wouldn't worry about improving the barrel surface finish .....especially if that process would cause you difficulty somewhere else in the manufacturing. Besides, you really do need to leave us something to do on our end.....sense of ownership / pride of accomplishment and all that ... ;)
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Neat information, Dave! That depth of tool marks seems entirely reasonable. Cool stuff.
Jim
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Where do you find these Bahco files at ? Al
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Where do you find these Bahco files at ? Al
Lee Valley and/or Amazon
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I found that file on ebay.. $13.00 shipped. Al
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Since I reported here on just draw filing the barrel, I have resisted doing any more on this excellent kit from Jim Kibler. I just don't have the time to work on it......However.....last evening, after dinner, I had a free evening. This kit is so well done that I got all the assembly done in less than 5 hours....including mounting and trimming all the barrel lugs and a fair amount of clean up on all the cast brass parts !!!! I just wanted to compliment Jim and Katherine again publicly on an outstanding product.
(https://i.ibb.co/7yR6D0S/IMG-9105.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RHBVKJg)
(https://i.ibb.co/fMmMyXz/IMG-9106.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zsKsBmT)
(https://i.ibb.co/PMcrnSL/IMG-9107.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nB7wvWG)
(https://i.ibb.co/LhhJ43n/IMG-9108.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0VVFPxh)
(https://i.ibb.co/QpcdJy8/IMG-9109.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Dzbp10G)
(https://i.ibb.co/qx8MsNX/IMG-9110.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jHYvMyB)
(https://i.ibb.co/vPSvR6q/IMG-9111.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DCZgTHW)
(https://i.ibb.co/LkP5jkJ/IMG-9112.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VjNmnjQ)
(https://i.ibb.co/n1Dh9NY/IMG-9113.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pK3CcBM)
(https://i.ibb.co/S5NNFp6/IMG-9114.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WGnnm1H)
(https://i.ibb.co/YygmWm0/IMG-9115.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k9Zjyjm)
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Davec2,
Are you thinking you will add car ing to the stock?
Good progress!
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ScottH,
Yes, I will add carving and some engraving. Not sure how much of each yet, but certainly some.
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Thanks Dave. Looks great. Nice reviews like yours means a lot.
All the best,
Jim
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Now that should be some combination when done - Jim's beautiful Colonial kit and Dave's great skill at carving, engraving and finishing. I suspect I will be envious of the final result. BTW, I love that fat curl line in front of the patchbox lid. It really gives the gun character. God Bless, Marc
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Well, as you can see from the date of the last post that this rifle has been sitting on the bench since late January. I'm still not in a position to go all out on this, but over the past few days I decided that I wanted to do a little carving on the stock. As is usually the case, it is not the carving that takes time, it is trying to decide on what to carve. So rather than doing anything overly original, I thought I would just use a carving theme from one of Jim's rifles.....after all, the kit is from Jim.....
So I picked a design I liked a lot when I first saw it and I knew it was going to be a tough one to try to mimic....AND IT WAS !!!! None of these are completely finished yet but I wanted to get the overall design cut. I will finish smoothing the backgrounds and cleaning up some details when I actually get around to finishing the rifle.....
I started off by putting a molding along the ram rod channel and then thinned out the wrist some side to side and top to bottom. Did the usual lock molding, etc., but here is the major stuff.....
Butt stock main carving layout:
(https://i.ibb.co/Cn8tyhY/IMG-0085.jpg) (https://ibb.co/P5jYywP)
First Cuts:
(https://i.ibb.co/Y3rbWfB/IMG-0086.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kxdMyq2)
Mostly done......
(https://i.ibb.co/HD56cWp/IMG-0097.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ynHtzwB)
I wanted to change the carving around the rear pipe so, instead of using the original design, I made up a variation on the theme Jim used elsewhere on his rifle......layout of the design.......
(https://i.ibb.co/ckzCtkS/IMG-0092.jpg) (https://ibb.co/q7bW973)
And cut......
(https://i.ibb.co/D959L3q/IMG-0093.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k4Q4MYd)
(https://i.ibb.co/Xs81KMj/IMG-0095.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wWsVPjB)
(https://i.ibb.co/tmkpqRm/IMG-0096.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C1NKbL1)
Breach carving.........
(https://i.ibb.co/xGBD9y0/IMG-0098.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Y813n6M)
(https://i.ibb.co/fqMCWp1/IMG-0116.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XjXzPs2)
Toughest one of all......patchbox !
(https://i.ibb.co/gtBZvFY/IMG-0112.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tYWpZPR)
(https://i.ibb.co/TRwFTGp/IMG-0115.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GkdbJDB)
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Lovely work Dave! I confused Dave's at 3 in the morning but I know who you are!
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Looks really great, you've done a great job
Awesome!!!!
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Hi Dave,
Beautiful! Very strong Kibler influence in the carving.
James, thanks but you have the wrong Dave. Too many Daves I guess.
dave
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Hi Dave,
Beautiful! Very strong Kibler influence in the carving.
James, thanks but you have the wrong Dave. Too many Daves I guess.
dave
Dave, you are correct. I should not post at 3 in the am! I know both of you but evidently not when I'm half asleep!
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Glad don't have to weigh my filings. I'd never find them in my shop. It's all i can do to find the tools I'm using. Got to clean up sometime.
Bob
I clean the shop when I have to force the door open but not until. ;D
Bob Roller
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Mr. Roller seems like we have more in common than a first name.
Bob
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Davec2,
Coming along nicely! Thanks for sharing your progress.
8)
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Thanks to all....
Smart Dog......this is not just "Very strong Kibler influence in the carving".....I was trying desperately to copy his style EXACTLY. I did not succeed but at least the experience has given me some additional insights into what I like and what I don't like in the way of carving design. And it gave me more practice than I was prepared for trying to execute the design in curly maple !!! :o (Especially the four overlapping layers of carving in the patch box !)
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Hi Dave,
You executed the design very, very well and I think Jim would be flattered and feel you did his art justice. He is one of the few makers I consider artists and he developed a unique style that really adds another "school" to our rich long rifle heritage. You could not pick a better "mentor by example" than Jim. I cannot wait to see the finished product, Dave. I hope all is well with you and your family.
dave (one of the other Daves)
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Oh YES - waiting with 'abated breath'.
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Took half the day, but I got all the brass parts final polished. These are taken to a fairly high gloss and I will knock them back some as I do the engraving. I usually take all the brass and steel to this level of polish first to make sure I'm not leaving any "unsightly" scratches or tool marks. I can see anything I don't like in the surface finish better at this point and then, when I take some of the gloss off as I engrave, I know the parts are clear of tool marks......which, like scratches on the stock, always show up at a lousy time in the finishing process :( >:(
The lock is next in the polishing que.......
(https://i.ibb.co/NmS7MRk/IMG-0154.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qW5xv64)
(https://i.ibb.co/XY1DZyK/IMG-0155.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1z1MfsP)
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Beautiful job Dave, on the layout, carving and the tedious job of polishing brass. I have one of these rifles in my future too, at some point.
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It is very hard and humiliating to have to compete with geniuses especially when they are young also.
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This is Jerrywh working calmly on a problem......I know how calmly and capably and precisely......I took the picture......
(https://i.ibb.co/kMg9z5d/100-1579-copy.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6NR1Grd)
On the other hand......this is often how I work on a problem.................
(https://i.ibb.co/RcJjnT7/14915275-563800937137244-8214753133984581293-n.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
And then, when I think I know what it is I want to do.........this happens.....(I'm the guy on the right !)
(https://i.ibb.co/K7jWk69/Car-Polo-1910.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vmxkG1J)
So Jerry, don't worry.......I don't think any of us are catching up with you ! ;)
Taylor,
Working the brass on Jim's kit was really not that difficult. The lost wax castings are first class and do not take a lot of work to prep for the final finishing. I am working on the lock now and it is also going fairly fast. Because the lock plate is milled out of solid stock, there are no casting porosity or shrinkage divots to file out. And the machine finish on the plate is way better than a cast one. And the only cast parts (cock, frizzen, and top jaw) look to be excellent castings as well. I can tell you already, this kit has made me fairly lazy. I have two rifles that Dave Rase just inlet the barrels into stock blanks and they are sitting at the end of my bench. I'm looking at all the inletting and wood removal that needs to be done on each.....and then looking at the Kibler kit I am working on. I think it will take me a while before I have the energy to tackle the rifles from a blank... :)
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Dave C., are those fellows playing a motorized version of polo?
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Craig,
Yes.... that’s an automotive version of polo and the photo is from 1910
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People had all sorts of fun with those new-fangled motor things! We had an old Packard hood that we towed behind a cut-down VW, going through piney woods in south Florida. Little hard to stay standing with the driver playing crack-the-whip. Surprised we survived our young and dumb years.
I would have loved the "auto-polo".
You have done your usual fantastic magic on that Kibler kit, especially with copying Jim's carvings. He really does have an original style and technique. Good guy to emulate.
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Oh, by the way, Jim Kibler......if you are following this thread......can you tell me what alloy the frizzen on your locks are cast from? As much as I hate to, I need to anneal the frizzen on this lock to engrave it and I will need to know the alloy in order to get the heat treat right when I re-harden and temper it.
Thanks
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Started in on polishing the lock. Took some elbow grease with the sanding sticks I use, but had the lock plate done in about an hour:
(https://i.ibb.co/XkS92xx/IMG-0156.jpg) (https://ibb.co/93sJ8HH)
(https://i.ibb.co/0tHtZLC/IMG-0158.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3zgzWbp)
Flint cock took another half hour to get to this point......
(https://i.ibb.co/8mDmXkR/IMG-0159.jpg) (https://ibb.co/K5j5mnQ)
Only the frizzen to go but needed to anneal it first in preparation for both polishing and then engraving:
(https://i.ibb.co/KN7wk4R/IMG-0161.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FsJVMZN)
This is a comparison between the "as cast" part and what I consider to be a sufficient level of polishing:
(https://i.ibb.co/PNmFxhn/IMG-0160.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qdy7Bsf)
By the way, this is the little 110 VAC furnace I use for a lot of heat treating and casting larger parts like trigger guards and butt plates. These are fairly expensive new, but they can be had used for a reasonable amount. In this case. I used it to anneal the frizzen. I covered the part in crushed charcoal (to prevent scaling) and ran the furnace up to ~ 1700 degrees F. Then I just turned it off and came back in a few hours to pull the frizzen out.....nice and soft now.
I use this for gold and silver work and it can easily melt brass and copper alloys of all sorts......anything but iron and steel. And, of course, I can use it to case harden or heat treat parts as well.
(https://i.ibb.co/35xQ0rB/IMG-0163.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CpjDn1h)
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Are the little crescent cuts made with one gouge or two with different radius?
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Dave,
You are doint some beautiful work in all regards! You've done an amazing job recreating the carving I did. I don't mind this at all. This is one way we all learn. In fact, I've had it in my mind to try to emulate some carving produced from a few modern makers I admire.
Anyways, keep up the great work and it will be nice to follow your progress.
All the best,
Jim
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Scott,
The little crescent cuts I made are done different ways as I tried to figure out how Jim did them. The way that worked best was to take a gouge of the correct size and first push it straight into the wood. Then using the same gouge, cut in on an angle to meet the first plunge cut. I don't have too many different size gouges, so I tried to make crescents of various sizes with a small shallow radius gouge.....didn't work as well. If Jim stops back in on this thread, perhaps he will tell us how he really does the crescent cuts.
Jim,
Thanks for the note of encouragement. I'm not so sure about how amazing my recreation is (compared to your original), but I think it will turn out respectably when it's finished. I sent you an email asking about how you stained & finished the original rifle and what alloy the frizzen on this lock is cast from.
Thanks again
Dave C
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Typical crisp and detailed work. Very nice sir!
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Beautiful work. Can you tell us what kind of sand paper and what grits you are using to polish the brass metal furniture and lock parts?
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You make this look so easy. I'm going to start in polishing a lock for the first time soon and your work will be the benchmark I strive for.
There's one thing that worries me:
that I use for making detonators for explosive charges.
:)
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Martin,
After initial shaping with files, etc., I scrape most of the surface of brass and some steel parts. I use the non sharpened edge of a utility blade. This is a blade being used to scrape brass. I use the same tool for brass, wood, and steel. I stone the two 45 degree edges to a sharp 90 and use both sides of those. Scraping a large butt plate takes about 30 minutes. Scraping a whole stock to get out file, rasp, or carving tool marks takes about an hour...more if there is a lot of intricate carving to scrape around. Then I use sandpaper where ever necessary or useful.
Here I am scraping a butt plate with the angled edge of a box cutter blade. It takes off brass more rapidly and more smoothly than a file and leaves a finish that does not take too much more work with the abrasive paper or sticks. Wood comes of really fast and I have to be careful not to take too much.
(https://preview.ibb.co/mXGpwk/IMG_3163.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gGuL2Q)
(https://preview.ibb.co/djdDNQ/IMG_3164.jpg) (http://ibb.co/b3LhGk)
As I said, I scrape some steel parts as well. You just have to refresh the edge of the scraper much more often.
After scraping I polish steel and brass with these sanding sticks:
(https://i.ibb.co/M6k82y6/Sanding-sticks.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
They are plastic and spring loaded to hold 1/4" wide sanding belts of various grits. I have a half a dozen of the sticks and keep one for each of the grits I use. I use them for polishing lock parts, brass parts, barrels, and stock details. When polishing metal I usually use them with a light oil (as in a previous picture). The belts don't load up as much with the oil. Here is a link to some available on Amazon but the sticks and belts are available from many sources including jewelry supply houses:
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B079GHS13V?aaxitk=BjhPW.OfNRwSAJO2fZcH6w&pd_rd_i=B079GHS13V&pf_rd_p=591760d1-6468-480f-9b10-0ee9c85706fd&hsa_cr_id=9367417650701&sb-ci-n=productDescription&sb-ci-v=5%20Piece%20Sanding%20Detailer%20Stick%20Set%20with%202%20Extra%20Replacement%20Belts%20Per%20Stick%2C%205%20Grits%20120%2C%20240%2C%20320%2C%20400%20%26%20500%20Grit%20Made%20in%20The%20USA%20for%20Sanding%20Wood%2C%20Metal%20%26%20Plastics%2C%20Long%20Life%20Sanding%20Belts
And here is a set from Rio Grande. They also have better belts.....more expensive but better.
https://www.riogrande.com/product/sanding-stick-assortment-set-of-6/337286
I use the sticks starting at 120 grit and progressing to about 400 grit. Sometimes I stop at 320. On some parts I go to 600. Depends. Also, exercising extreme care about not rounding any edge that isn't supposed to be rounded, I use these on a bench polishing lathe....this one is a 220 grit but I have and use them from 120 to 6 micron:
https://www.riogrande.com/product/dedeco-sunburst-3-radial-disc-220-grit-red/326083
Longcruise:
Don't be worried about the detonator stuff....I work with a lot of high explosives in my other incarnation and I still have all 10 fingers and both eyeballs ;) :)
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Finished work on the annealed frizzen and got it polished to the same level as the rest of the external lock parts. Also polished the top jaw, top jaw screw, and gave the frizzen spring a little polish as well.
(https://i.ibb.co/RpxvVjd/IMG-0171.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bgSW8bD)
I have made no real modifications to this kit previously except for removing some additional wood along the full length of the fore stock and reducing the height and thickness of the wrist about an 1/8" in both directions. But then today I made a modification to the trigger. The kit comes with the trigger pinned through the stock and I have no doubt, that if I had left it alone, I would not live long enough to wear any part of that arrangement out. The existing arrangement is historically accurate and perfectly acceptable. However, with all of the other guns I have built, I liked the idea of the trigger "group" coming out of the stock as a unit (sort of like an M1 Garand ;)) and having the pivot pin for the trigger housed in metal rather than in the wood. Not a requirement. Not historically accurate. Just my personal preference. So I bent up a small piece of sheet steel, silver brazed it to the kit supplied trigger plate, drilled the pivot holes in alignment with the kit supplied trigger, and then excavated a little bit of wood in the trigger mortice to let it all sit snug in the stock. Came out great. Engraving is next.
(https://i.ibb.co/hY0SJ5Z/IMG-0179.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Z290psY)
(https://i.ibb.co/Bw6RCyS/IMG-0177.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YbdGLcq)
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Dave,
You are a wildman! Did you begin life as an engineer? Very precise, very detailed!
BUT..... why in the world would you polish the hidden portion of a trigger plate? Are you just bored because of the whole COVID thing?
Just kidding Sir! Beautiful work!
P.S. I still think you’re a little crazy.
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Smallpatch,
My wife thinks I'm more than "a little" crazy. :o
And no, I didn't polish the back side of the trigger plate.....I just made it look a little on the "shiny" side. I did just tonight engrave both the trigger plate and the trigger though. I don't always do that but I do when I haven't been engraving for a while....gives me some practice before it will be someplace more noticeable. Also gives me an opportunity to cut on the two types of steel Jim uses in this kit, mild steel stock (for machined parts like the lock plate and the trigger plate) and steel castings (cock, frizzen, trigger, top jaw). Came out OK, but I' was glad to have some practice before I jump into the lock, breech plug, etc.
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Nothing fancy.....just sort of a warm up and test on the materials involved. (The parts are also easily replaced if I mess up too bad..... ;)
Now that I look at the pictures (always a good "truth" check on my work), I can see that I need to do a little refining......
(https://i.ibb.co/rxJ4r34/IMG-0180.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F5tgTXg)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZKZ01rB/IMG-0182.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zbkzHgX)
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I can't imagine what something you would call fancy would look like. Beautiful work and I call that trigger and plate fancy..... 8) :) :)
Dave
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Thanks for the great tutorial and I just ordered those sanding sticks. I think they'll come in handy. Just so I'm clear,
were the brass parts rough cast and was your first step to file them or to scrape them?
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Jim,
The surface finish on the barrels is just fine. After your comment, I did convert the 1.1 grams of steel removed per flat to a thickness. Assuming an average flat width of 0.4", a barrel length of 43", and a density for mild steel of 0.2904 lbs / in^3, the 1.1 grams of steel removed per flat to clean up the surface equates to 0.00053" in thickness. So, on average, the removal of a half a thousandth of an inch of material results in a smooth file finish with no remaining tool marks. I wouldn't worry about improving the barrel surface finish .....especially if that process would cause you difficulty somewhere else in the manufacturing. Besides, you really do need to leave us something to do on our end.....sense of ownership / pride of accomplishment and all that ... ;)
I'm guessing you are an engineer. Also just ordered the Bahco file. Can I use the 143-10-3 file on my brass as well?
I'm getting excited about working on my kit.
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Shreckmeister,
I hesitate to say the brass parts included with Jim's kit were "rough cast". They are excellent investment cast parts....much smother than a typical sand casting. So, to answer your question, I did do a little file work on the parts, then scraped them, and then used the sanding sticks to finish most of the polishing. I do also use a muslin wheel and tripoli polishing compound on curved surfaces but do not use tripoli on surfaces that are supposed to have sharp features / edges or flat surfaces.
I know others separate the files they use on brass from those they use on steel, etc., but I don't. I use any file I have that is the right shape and cut on any material...gold, silver, brass, wood, steel....whatever. When the file gets dull, I get a new one or sharpen the old one. I don't have enough bench space to have separate files for different materials. The one exception is that, since purchasing the Bahco file, I keep that one just for draw filing barrels.
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I can't imagine what something you would call fancy would look like. Beautiful work and I call that trigger and plate fancy..... 8) :) :)
Dave
Yeah - beautiflul work indeed.
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More engraving today.....
(https://i.ibb.co/kKR8V37/IMG-0188.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2qDt089)
(https://i.ibb.co/FmGmb52/IMG-0189.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gmsmMSN)
(https://i.ibb.co/WFDk5Lg/IMG-0186.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hHXB9SD)
(https://i.ibb.co/SNVwGND/IMG-0187.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8MPgtMn)
(https://i.ibb.co/3BczBFX/IMG-0183.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4PpdPSy)
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Beautiful work.
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YES - beautiful work indeed!
Breath-tauntingly beautiful.
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Really nice work!
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Your sunburst on the top jaw is sublime; typically English!
Best regards, Henry.
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My thoughts exactly, Henry!
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Finished the lock engraving tonight. Started on the brass parts but haven't decided how much engraving I will do on all those parts.
(https://i.ibb.co/dkJTf2m/IMG-0200.jpg) (https://ibb.co/h216gWY)
(https://i.ibb.co/Sv6yhWW/IMG-0199.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ryQ0CTT)
One comment about the precision of Jim's new CNC locks. As I mentioned in a previous post, I had to anneal the frizzen to polish and engrave it. I did that in a furnace with the frizzen buried in charcoal to keep it from scaling at all. When I took the lock apart, I noted how beautifully the frizzen and the frizzen pivot screw were fitted. No slop at all. After polishing and engraving, I went to reassemble the lock and discovered that the frizzen screw would no longer fit through the hole in the toe of the frizzen. It took me a while to lap the hole and the frizzen screw enough to allow the screw to go back into position and allow the frizzen to turn on the pivot freely but without any slop. I have never worked on a lock that had parts fitted that precisely. Good job Jim !!!
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That is a real show piece,Great work.
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Stellar - absolutely Stellar -
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That's one beautiful lock.
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Not sure where I'm going yet with all the engraving.....as usual this all sort of just "happens" as I think of something that appeals to me. Probably why most of my engraving is so "disjointed". Although when I look at a lot of photos of original rifles, their engraving seems to be all over the place as well.....so perhaps I AM doing the right thing....who knows :o
At any rate, here is the latest progress....and we'll see if it all comes together in the end.......
I like decorated screws, so I did the two lock bolts and the tang screw with a different type of floral design more complicated than the much simpler one I have been doing...
(https://i.ibb.co/CwjKKKy/IMG-0228.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3Txmmmb)
(https://i.ibb.co/sCqp1q9/IMG-0230.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BGBH6B2)
I decided I wanted some decoration at the breech.....not sure if I will add too much more or not yet. I had to make a new punch for the beading here....didn't have one the correct size....
(https://i.ibb.co/mvRgLGJ/IMG-0232.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Q8Jt2f9)
Completed the excavation of steel on the top of the breech plug in preparation for inlaying a 24 karat gold touch mark. This is always a tedious task for me for some reason. I will do some additional engraving on the tang when I decide what I want to do there.
(https://i.ibb.co/3Sxnyyy/IMG-0225.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F8QFbbb)
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As always, beautiful work!! Thanks for sharing!
Ed
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Inspiring, Mr DC2, just inspiring! Thank you for taking time to document and share.
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Very nice Dave. Typically crisp. I too like the flash or sunburst on the top jaw, the string of pearls around the breech, and those classy screw heads. Sharp. Please proceed. God Bless, Marc
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Yes. That falls squarely into the middle of ‘Fancy’ in my book. Nice work.
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Not a lot of time to work these last few days but after engraving the lock bolt and tang screw heads, I thought I might as well do the remaining few. I used the same pattern on the cock screw, the top jaw screw and the two butt plate screws. Since I have apparently gone completely berserk here, I might as well do the little screw head on the trigger plate screw.... ;)
Oh, and I did add some engraving to the breech decoration and took a crack at the side plate. I'm not very happy with the side plate. I may ask Jim if I can purchase another side plate and take another crack at it.....
(https://i.ibb.co/8DcT1qv/IMG-0237.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rGsTDY8)
(https://i.ibb.co/vmKyy71/IMG-0240.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6bf993Y)
(https://i.ibb.co/R3PHLWQ/IMG-0241.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zXbfKwP)
(https://i.ibb.co/TMN1p8T/IMG-0242.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CKS6N7t)
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Well that sure is looking snazzy! Nice work.
Jim
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Hi Dave,
Great engraving as always. The side plate looks fine but I think I see what might you might not be happy with. The nick and dot border has closed off the center of the plate. At this point you have to create a free and detached engraving to fill the center because there is no way to anchor it to the border. What you might be able to do is use the head of the rear lock bolt as the anchor for some design flowing from it. Good luck, Dave.
dave
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Jim,
Thanks.....we'll see how it all turns out. I may have just messed up a perfectly good kit with a lot of "bling" that doesn't belong there...??? I may need to purchase a spare side plate at a minimum. I haven't been doing any engraving for quite some time and have run a little amuck here.
David,
Exactly ! That and I don't like the way I did the sunburst at the rear end of the plate. Can't do much to fix that except to solder on a silver overlay.....or something. Nothing to lose now....I will try anchoring something to the rear lock bolt. Thanks !
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Hi Dave,
Here is an example I did.
(https://i.ibb.co/2N7C7kK/Baichtalsrifle2-zpsfe12dbb9.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
dave
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David,
Thanks ! I think I was taking your advice and cutting this modification at the same time you were posting an example.......I'm still not happy with the whole side plate.....but it's better than it was.....
(https://i.ibb.co/0cw1TN4/IMG-0252.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PNSJKpX)
(https://i.ibb.co/6s6g3nC/IMG-0253.jpg) (https://ibb.co/h8pDP7z)
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Dave
That looks very neat, and it gives me a move to practice more.
Adrie
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Hi Dave,
I think that looks really good and it works well with the engraved screw head. Nicely done and creative!
dave
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Excellent design work and execution Dave. No need to replace that side plate. Engraving is complimentary to the rest of your work.
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Taylor.....thanks for the vote of confidence.....I'll see if the design grows on me
Meanwhile, I did get the gold touch mark installed in the breech plug and started the layout for the rest of the engraving on it......
(https://i.ibb.co/ygTcGjk/IMG-0261.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GCw4BSM)
Did as much as I'm going to do on the rear ram rod pipe. Just a little nick and dot border and a touch of scroll work.....
(https://i.ibb.co/Jy9QvbT/IMG-0262.jpg) (https://ibb.co/61kBHpS)
I put two rows of nick and dot on both sides of the muzzle cap.....may add something else.....not sure yet.
(https://i.ibb.co/yggCBYc/IMG-0263.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VMMGpQc)
Did put my name and date on the top of the barrel.....I may inlay this in gold....haven't done that in a while.....
(https://i.ibb.co/Y3dRJYg/IMG-0264.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kxDHzkZ)
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Like always, your work is amazing!!
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Ok Dave,
You’re making the rest of us look like SLACKERS!
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Engraving is not the problem.....trying to develop and eye for WHAT to engrave is a huge problem. I finished the breech plug any way......
(https://i.ibb.co/8Nf2wyv/IMG-0266.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ydZ5Czv)
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Dave,
Your name and date are so precise they appear as though done by machine.
You’re not really a robot are you? ;)
Jeff
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J. Talbert......not yet.....but if I have a few more parts replaced I might end up that way... ;)
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J. Talbert......not yet.....but if I have a few more parts replaced I might end up that way... ;)
I hear that...
Jeff
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Not much more engraving to go now. Started the trigger guard about 2 hours ago. I stuck with the same floral motif I used on the screw heads as the primary decoration. I think this is all I will do on it......
(https://i.ibb.co/C0p08dq/IMG-0267.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nkqkm2T)
(https://i.ibb.co/xMXss19/IMG-0268.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2jW66vV)
(https://i.ibb.co/cLL3bMb/IMG-0269.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8ccszTz)
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You do a very nice job!
John
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Dave, I am in awe! I learned to make guns and basic engraving with Bruce Lepage. Unfortunately my engraving skills are much more basic than yours and Bruce's. I do have a question though. I've always drawn my designs directly on the metal. Am I correct in assuming that you're designs are scribed on metal that has been coated with Dykem? It makes a lot more sense than drawing directly on the metal.
Dave
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Davec2 - awe is only the start. jaw-droppingly beautiful work.
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Really trick how you got those round dimples in the eye of the flower to work out even.
Cheers Richard
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Thank you all for the kind words. Jim Kibler's kit is beautiful just as it comes from his shop without the need for any further embellishment. But it also provides a wonderful canvas, if you will, upon which to execute any level of carving, engraving, and inlay work that one might desire. I am, to a large extent, operating in the blind in my attempts at decoration due mostly to my lack of detailed knowledge about the American Longrifle and suffering from a complete dearth of being able to examine original guns out here on the West (i.e. Left) Coast. Of course, on the other side of that, I think most if not all of the original long rifle makers did what I am doing.....They carved and engraved to suit their own taste emulating a design feature here or there that may have caught their eye as they looked at the work of other contemporary gunsmiths. So at times, when I am not particularly pleased with my own design decisions or executions, I am somewhat comforted by the thought that a lot of the 18th century makers we admire from the past probably felt the same way about their early work and were dedicated enough to their craft to continue to strive to improve.
Flatsguide.....to that last point, the symmetry of the flower center on the trigger guard was a complete accident... :o .......but I'd rather be lucky than good anytime !
Not English.....I told a friend of mine recently that, at a time in my life when my eyesight has started to falter with age, I have decided to take up the hobby of engraving !! As a consequence I need all the help I can get to see what I am doing. As you noted, I do use Dykem on most parts and then very, very lightly scribe whatever design I intend to engrave. I don't have the self discipline to make detailed drawings on paper as some excellent engravers do, so the scribed design does two things for me. First it allows me to roughly see what the design will look like on the part. Second, it gives me a very clear contrast to follow when I start to cut. The technique does have the drawback of leaving very faint scribe marks on the surface if you change the design. If very lightly done to begin with though, they usually do not take much effort to polish out.
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I don't number my guns but I do ID them with an appropriate memento of gratitude and a date on the underside of the barrel......although I should really add Jim's name as well on this one..... ;) (Actually, I thought about this too late but the inscription should really read "David ornantur me per gratiam Dei"......."David embellished me by the grace of God") Sorry Jim...I usually build from scratch. I'm not used to the kit building thing yet !
(https://i.ibb.co/N2bkbGx/IMG-0273.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pj5s5k2)
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David, super happy to see you practice on YOUR parts before I send you mine! Go ahead and practice your gold inlaying also...
You have a great touch with a graver. I am still trying to make a straight line.
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Getting close to starting the staining & finishing of the wood. These next two pictures are of one of Jim's rifles that I copied most of the carving from. I also want to mimic the color of this rifle as best I can. I have had some information exchange by PM with Jim about how he did this and the plan now is to start with a dilute Ferric Nitrate solution, heat blushed and then stained again with TransTint Honey Amber. The figure on this stock is no where near as tight as the one Jim built, but however that comes out will be OK. The unfortunate part of having a kit this well made is that the only place I have to check out the staining technique on this piece of wood is at the bottom of the barrel channel as there is no "scrap" wood to work with. In addition, I have never used TransTint dyes, so this may turn out to be a real $#@* shoot. Wish me luck.....
(https://i.ibb.co/WPS0cfG/4431270-orig.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nnhBDj6)
(https://i.ibb.co/P15rTzz/1262286-orig.jpg) (https://ibb.co/p431Wrr)
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The carving and wood color are outstanding.
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I just find this colour combination delightful - jewel-like.
Too bad it isn't a permanent "thing".
(https://i.ibb.co/mvpNSbx/TG-Engraving.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Q80DXp5)
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The carving and wood color are outstanding.
Absolutely.
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I just find this colour combination delightful - jewel-like.
Too bad it isn't a permanent "thing".
(https://i.ibb.co/mvpNSbx/TG-Engraving.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Q80DXp5)
I thought the same thing. A bit like one of those Faberge eggs.
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I'm with Daryl on the Dykem. Such a brilliant shade of blue is almost guaranteed to brighten your day. Need to find a way to make it permanent.
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As noted previously, I have nowhere to experiment except in the barrel channel.....tried a BUNCH of things and so far, no luck. I'm running out of blank area in the barrel channel.... ??? :o :-\
(https://i.ibb.co/SmDRmbT/IMG-0281.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dpsGpF9)
(https://i.ibb.co/nQnjggJ/IMG-0283.jpg) (https://ibb.co/44Ypmmr)
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The orangey one second from the muzzle looks pretty good to me. Two coatings of AF, and some antiquing and I think it'd look nice. You are the artist of course. God Bless, Marc
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A circle template? Really? I thought I was the only one still using drafting tools. :-)
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Hi Dave,
Are you using Jim Kibler's stain, which I believe is ferric nitrate. Below are some photos of guns with maple stocks that I stained with ferric nitrate. One feature that I have is iron in my well water and I use it rather than distilled. I believe it is responsible for the redder tones I usually (not always) achieve with ferric nitrate stain.
(https://i.ibb.co/ysdjvBB/Reading-Gun4-zpsf14f530e.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/CvW169p/Reading-Gun6-zps35828617.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/YZYWgBB/Star-of-Bethlehem-6-zpszx9pob7y.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PQ3YkGG)
(https://i.ibb.co/xXVymzK/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Dz3NGwP)
(https://i.ibb.co/cgT3rNT/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ngkmLDk)
(https://i.ibb.co/DGJwSch/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pW749Vc)
(https://i.ibb.co/yWQS19j/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ChH2ZcG)
(https://i.ibb.co/bXF8Stw/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rH31C98)
(https://i.ibb.co/1mcSWrn/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5RZ7Hr9)
Ferric nitrate solution is weakly acidic and you can dissolve iron filings in it if you give it some time to act. Another option is to paint the stock with lye water after blushing, which also neutralizes any residual acid. Here is a test of showing the effect. The first photo is maple stained with ferric nitrate and wet with water, and the second is the same piece after a lye wash and wet.
(https://i.ibb.co/59TrYJh/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b31sHG5)
(https://i.ibb.co/7tfyJv5/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CKc05BZ)
Good luck,
dave
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David,
Thanks for the pictures and information. I am caught up in several "firsts" for me. The first "first" is that I am trying to use ferric nitrate but dissolved in ethanol rather than water to minimize grain raising. When initially mixed, the solution is a nice deep reddish amber color but perfectly clear. If I use it fresh, I get one color after heat blush. If I wait overnight, the clear amber solution clouds up with a brown / rusty looking precipitate, fully suspended in the solution. If I use it after it clouds up, even on the same piece of wood, and then heat blush again, it comes out a different color. However, when testing in the barrel channel, neither one are very attractive on this piece of wood. Both versions come out a chocolate brown and too dark. This first ferric nitrate solution was 2 grams of ferric nitrate in 25 ml of ethanol. I'm going to try making a solution half strength and then try this all again.
On top of the ferric nitrate experiments, I am working with a couple of colors of TransTint....a few drops mixed in a 50 / 50 solution of ethanol and lacquer thinner. The original intent here is to do something with the blushed ferric nitrate and then try to get close to the color of Jim's rifle with the TransTint as an over wash. But there are about a gazillion permutations and combinations here....and I'm running out of bare wood spots to test on.
I'll keep you posted.....but this could go on for a while. This is the first time I have ever tried to get close to a particular color. Usually I just use the iron nitrate in water (prepared from nitric acid & iron), heat blush, and let the color come out where it will. :) :o ;)
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Hi Dave,
I believe that a problem with alcohol as a base is it dries so quickly that it does not penetrate well. Personally, I do not use alcohol-based stains for that reason although I do use Homer Dangler's alcohol-based stains for touch up. I believe water-based stains penetrate deeper and provide richer color. I cut the background and basic carving outlines, then whisker the stock, then carve the details. That eliminates any grain raising in the carving.
dave
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Dave
I use Lancaster Maple stain from Track and Wolf.
I put the maple stain on, rub it of with a cloth. stain it again. rub it again and do this several times.
When you think the color is right you stop.
(https://i.ibb.co/Zcq9svb/image001.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/r2SR4By/DSC01847.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m5wV6nz)
Adrie
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Adrie,
Thank you for the photos and the explanation. I have never used those types of stains but I bought a few colors to experiment with.
Are all of those rifles in the photo miniatures ? If so, that is a fantastic collection of miniature long rifles !!!!
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Great Balls of Fire! Dave, most of my gun work looks fine from six to twelve feet away. Your work is incredible even with a loupe!
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Dave these are all the rifles I made on scale.
(https://i.ibb.co/QKq85g2/DSC01860.jpg) (https://ibb.co/P6bTSL7)
Two I have given to friends.
(https://i.ibb.co/tX61RXL/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/L5ysK5N)
(https://i.ibb.co/CBddSH0/DSC00076.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4Wyy0VN)
For the good understanding, you rub off the stain while it is still wet.
When you put on the stain again the soft wood absorbs more stain.
Adrie
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Dave,
This is an experiment I did a year ago using different finishes over Jim Kiblers iron nitrate.
(https://i.ibb.co/YLxvvTJ/911-FC116-ACD4-42-F7-A275-5-BD8-D909-B101.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4VHBBgC)
(https://i.ibb.co/smwV0TT/EC6-D8156-83-DA-4-C75-8280-56-ED6799-B764.png) (https://ibb.co/qysrtHH)
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Mike,
Thanks !!! Were all of those samples from the same piece of wood ?
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While I work on the staining experiments, I was looking at the muzzle cap and decided it was too plain (compared to everything else). Besides, I had to do something with the heads of the two copper rivets I made to hold the cap in place... ;)
(https://i.ibb.co/94hL50p/IMG-0286.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Wz0wJXH)
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Mike,
Thanks !!! Were all of those samples from the same piece of wood ?
Yes Sir. It’s a very general representation of the products. I treated each product the same and have sense found out that each product has several different methods. The first piece in each pile had one coat of Jim Kiblers stuff, the second had two and the third, three. I don’t think I waited the 30 minutes before each coat like I do now. The finishing product was slathered on and then a coat or two applied after each dried.
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Dave, I think I came across your name while looking at rocket engines on YouTube. Said you are/were very involved with rocket engine design and development...Is that you?
Cheers Richard
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Richard,
Yes, that was probably me. Over many years I have done and helped many students with amateur rocket projects that have been posted on YouTube. In addition, I have worked professionally as a propulsion engineer since leaving active duty in the Navy in 1981. I run a test facility out in the Mojave Desert and do rocket testing for many of the larger aerospace companies. My crew and I did all of the development and qualification testing for the 44,000 pound thrust Launch Abort Engine for the new Boeing Starliner space craft. Here is a short video.....I'm the guy in the Indiana Jones hat......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsD3NKSSErw
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Great video Dave! I haven't seen an engine test since I left NASA in 2005. I used to have a lot of fun with the propulsion guys. My question to them was " the engine is firing and the hold down arms just released now what are you going to do?" Always got a lot of puzzled looks! ;D
I was the guidance, navigation and control hardware guy.
Fred
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Cool to see you at work Dave. I never realized you were a movie star. :-)
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You are a true renaissance man in the truest sense of the word.
Cheers Richard
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Richard.....thanks for the compliment :)
OK.....I tried about 435,365 permutations and combinations of staining techniques on this stock (all in the barrel channel) and determined that, in no small measure, the wood is going to turn out whatever color the wood wants to turn out. So here it is thus far. I haven't finished "fiddling" with it yet (and it looks much better wet than dry). I've done so many things to this stock along the way (going from very light to darker) that I cannot even tell you how I got this far.....and I'm sure I could never repeat the process..... :o >:( :-\ ??? :)
(https://i.ibb.co/2ccZsY9/IMG-0295.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SVVfd7j)
(https://i.ibb.co/kHWMHSg/IMG-0296.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M2392CD)
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It is going to be exquisite - or better ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hi Dave,
Dry it looks a little on the light side, but it looks nice. Is that two coats of AF? Are you planning on a finish that also has some color in it, like Chambers?
It reminds me of leather finishing. I stop two shades lighter than I want. The neatsfoot oiling darkens it one shade, and then the top finish darkens it yet again.
Beautiful carving on that one. Two thumbs up.
God Bless, Marc
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Really nice curl, I like how the patch box lid looks like it was cut right from that area so the grain mostly matches, I don’t get that lucky.
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A little more tweaking of the staining and then the first coat of finish.....not the color I was heading for, but I like it anyway.......
(https://i.ibb.co/WKbBYKZ/IMG-0306.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GPKCbPy)
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Great looking rifle, super executed
Thanks for sharing
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Dave.
I made the pickture big, and I looked at it from a big distance, it's a beautiful color.
Adrie
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While the finish is going on the stock, I took the time to finish the barrel. I have come to like a "not just brown...kinda bronze-like" finish on the barrel that I have used on several other guns. A lighter brown than a deep plumb with touches of blue and bronze, the barrel color is not perfectly even when you look at it up close.....and I like the very slightly variegated colors. Just personal preference but the barrel has a "used but very well cared for" look about it. I'm not a big fan of artificial patina but something just a slight step back from a "show room new" appearance does appeal to me. Anyway, here is how the barrel came out.......
(https://i.ibb.co/RgKn5q1/IMG-0313.jpg) (https://ibb.co/p1TDmSg)
(https://i.ibb.co/RC7HNdM/IMG-0315.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dQ7Ktx3)
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Gotta love that crown. That's quite a tool you made, Dave. :)
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Quite a nice design that you have stamped into the breech end of the barrel.
I like the color also, Dave, but after I get moved I am going to set up for nitre bluing outside the workshop. Only plan on doing small parts till I see how it does, may set up for barrels after a year or so.
The barrels are worrisome to me. You can't block off the inside of it for fear of a blow-out. The temperature is between 750 and 800 degrees, creating a lot of pressure on any hollowed out areas. Not real sure how to protect the rifling from also being blued.
My previous setup was for small revolver parts.
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Sooo David----
It really is "Rocket Science"???
"that was probably me. Over many years I have done and helped many students with amateur rocket projects that have been posted on YouTube. In addition, I have worked professionally as a propulsion engineer since leaving active duty in the Navy in 1981. I run a test facility out in the Mojave Desert and do rocket testing for many of the larger aerospace companies. My crew and I did all of the development and qualification testing for the 44,000 pound thrust Launch Abort Engine for the new Boeing Starliner space craft. Here is a short video.....I'm the guy in the Indiana Jones hat......"
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Daryl,
Thanks.....the crown is a little heavier than the ones you have shown, but it seems to work great. I made a drawing die quite some time ago to make brass, copper, and / or silver tubes from sheet. I used the same type of radius on the muzzle radius cutter.
Craig,
I don't think niter bluing the rifling would hurt it any. Not the same as rust browning or bluing.
Rudyc,
When my daughters were teenagers (and, of course, knew EVERYTHING) and thought something I said was ridiculous, they would often mutter to themselves as the conversation was concluding that "you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out, Dad". Now that they are past 30, I think they understand that with respect to a lot of things in life, rocket science would be the easy part.
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Daryl,
Thanks.....the crown is a little heavier than the ones you have shown, but it seems to work great. I made a drawing die quite some time ago to make brass, copper, and / or silver tubes from sheet. I used the same type of radius on the muzzle radius cutter.
Craig,
I don't think niter bluing the rifling would hurt it any. Not the same as rust browning or bluing.
Rudyc,
When my daughters were teenagers (and, of course, knew EVERYTHING) and thought something I said was ridiculous, they would often mutter to themselves as the conversation was concluding that "you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out, Dad". Now that they are past 30, I think they understand that with respect to a lot of things in life, rocket science would be the easy part.
That radiused angle is what Corbin described in his literature about drawing dies/moving metal. With really tight loads, that is what we are doing when loading. We are forming/swaging the bullet into the bore with the patch between it and the bore.
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Not had much chance to finish up this rifle but have put a few coats of finish on the stock and have been experimenting with Jim's method of applying bone black. Here is where I am thus far. More work to do but going slow......since I have no idea what I'm doing just yet :o Stock needs some rubbing back and a few more top coats.....and perhaps another go around with bone black......not sure how it's supposed to look........ ???
(https://i.ibb.co/0fL56Cp/IMG-0325.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XzPHK7f)
(https://i.ibb.co/7rkw7hp/IMG-0327.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0YsgP59)
(https://i.ibb.co/yR1ZTvG/IMG-0328.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0XS6N48)
(https://i.ibb.co/SBsTcjF/IMG-0326.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fH1R9gj)
(https://i.ibb.co/MR14Khq/IMG-0329.jpg) (https://ibb.co/64txGZ6)
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Just finishing my Kibler smr. Used brass black on the barrel and Truoil for the stock. It is an amazing kit. Everything fit so easily. A lot of folks who don't want to spend all winter putting together a 'parts list' kit can easily finish one a of Jim's kits in 15 hours flat. The skill level required for assembly of the basic kit will allow those who have not done any machine shop or wood working to succeed. Should help to bring new people into the hobby!!!
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Dave, you've done a fantastic job on the whole long rifle! The carving, engraving, etc., is quite impeccable.
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What Craig said..., really nice, Dave!!!
Ed
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Carving and finish to aspire to.
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Stock is turning in the hot summer sun on my "stock rotisserie". The UV really sets up the polymerized tung oil quickly. While the stock was curing, I hardened all of the screw heads, the trigger, and re-hardened the frizzen. Made a ramrod tip and partially antiqued the brass parts. Should be ready to assemble in another couple of days.
(https://i.ibb.co/wSX88yZ/IMG-0349.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VgZbbV0)
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That looks nice with the finish on. I am looking forward to seeing it all assembled. Someone is getting an art display for sure. Art that can go out for woods outings. :-) God Bless, Marc
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Really fine example of just how much individual perspective can change the final rifle on one of Jim's kits, beautiful gun sir!
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man that is some nice work,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Well......I think I'm done anyway. I can't think of anything else I want or need to do. I made some carving and engraving choices I like on this one..... and others that I'm not wild about. Live and learn, but I think it came out good enough. Anyway, here are a bunch of pictures. When I have a little more time to write, I will make some final comments on building up this rifle from one of Jim's excellent kits.
Before you proceed, be advised that I am a lousy gun photographer and I have no place to really control lighting, etc. These photos do not show the color and grain of the stock wood very well so I took the last three photos in bright sunlight. There is a lot of glare but the wood and color show better......
(https://i.ibb.co/FhNyN6M/IMG-0379.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sgkNkjG)
(https://i.ibb.co/gy7f4Zk/IMG-0380.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VVNzwYf)
(https://i.ibb.co/Qj4dY1D/IMG-0381.jpg) (https://ibb.co/84HcPSY)
(https://i.ibb.co/N3h8Cjb/IMG-0382.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6Zh3wPL)
(https://i.ibb.co/Q8TzyBg/IMG-0383.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5YStbD0)
(https://i.ibb.co/C8dB3Dt/IMG-0384.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F3v6LCW)
(https://i.ibb.co/41xpy7Q/IMG-0385.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HhQqvVJ)
(https://i.ibb.co/4MdnVVb/IMG-0386.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sQHdVVT)
(https://i.ibb.co/wysrRq6/IMG-0387.jpg) (https://ibb.co/R2y49KH)
(https://i.ibb.co/Zc8K4cs/IMG-0388.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zPRb9Pc)
(https://i.ibb.co/wshd5pp/IMG-0389.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vY4c0LL)
(https://i.ibb.co/Ln7c3Bh/IMG-0391.jpg) (https://ibb.co/J5JG98F)
(https://i.ibb.co/26w0JjJ/IMG-0392.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8BJnkjk)
(https://i.ibb.co/K2BRWzQ/IMG-0393.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Wk7qfpd)
(https://i.ibb.co/QFkB6KQ/IMG-0394.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jvzKLrf)
(https://i.ibb.co/XbvVLV6/IMG-0395.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kxWMBMz)
(https://i.ibb.co/2dTKDPp/IMG-0396.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bXkdSLG)
(https://i.ibb.co/kcg03Wz/IMG-0397.jpg) (https://ibb.co/h8RHXtr)
(https://i.ibb.co/SwJLdsC/IMG-0399.jpg) (https://ibb.co/235bsn4)
(https://i.ibb.co/6XbTr2k/IMG-0400.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FHJym9F)
(https://i.ibb.co/6BzjWWQ/IMG-0401.jpg) (https://ibb.co/L5mVZZK)
(https://i.ibb.co/4szPg1K/IMG-0402.jpg) (https://ibb.co/z8pGH6Q)
(https://i.ibb.co/0CtHDTQ/IMG-0403.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gSVkjN6)
(https://i.ibb.co/S5WgXWD/IMG-0405.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YPYS7Y4)
(https://i.ibb.co/Z2MH2Jx/IMG-0406.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nPL3P0j)
(https://i.ibb.co/hdbpFCf/IMG-0407.jpg) (https://ibb.co/R6fLT7y)
(https://i.ibb.co/C5sBh6c/IMG-0409.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Rp42zNF)
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Oh lord, that's a awesome very attractive gun
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Beautiful rifle...gives a new meaning to a " kit gun " you have done a amazing job on your rifle... Like WOW.. Oldtravler
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Amazing work!! While it is totally irrelevant in this project, what caliber did you get? I tried to look at all 6 pages, but I didn't see a bore size mentioned.
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wow! super nice work. i am sure Jim will want to add that to the photos on his web site, what did you age the brass with?,,,,,,,,,,,
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Dave, that is just outstanding work!! Very well thought out and executed designs. Beautiful gun!!
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Thank you for the kind words. EC121, the bore is .50. Wolf, the brass was aged with a product called House of Antiques Brass ......something or other...... I will find a link and get back to you. I used it to turn the brass very dark and then lightened it up some with the grey Scotchbrite.
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Wolf..... here is the correct information
https://www.houseofantiquehardware.com/brass-darkening-aging-solution?utm_source=froog&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=gdf&partner=froog&gclid=CjwKCAjwsan5BRAOEiwALzomXxiHGtdoTGhHbEU9XjWyaKO5NEcglwRJ5Qky5JZFlFF2c4GMiK1UoxoCaFIQAvD_BwE
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thank you Dave,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Great work! You matched the grain on the patchbox lid to the stock?! Awesome.
The engraving is extraordinary.
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That looks really nice, Dave. I like the stock and metal finishing in particular. The light patina seems to help everything come together. Great work!
Jim
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Dave your work is always amazing!!
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Oh my - lovely indeed. I'm not shocked, though - your work is never lacking in precision and execution.
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Dave: I really like this rifle. I intend to build one of these for myself in .58 cal. and will borrow heavily from your work. Outstanding decoration.
Question re engraving: for the nick and dot, do you use a 'roll the graver ' technique rather than the plunge cuts that Schipper's describes? Does your frizzen spark as well now as it did prior to annealing? Really lovely rifle!!
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That is a great and beautiful Rifle!
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Again, thanks to all for the kind words.
Heinz: Matching of the patch box grain to the stock grain was Jim’s doing on this kit. Not sure how he did it but I appreciate that he did do it.
Jim: Well no one would ever mistake this rifle for one you had completed but I am generally pleased with how it came out. I will have some specific comments about the kit that may be of use to others who may be interested in purchasing one from you at the end of this note. I can comment on the wood and metal finishing in another post if anyone is interested.
Taylor: On the nick and dot, yes, I roll a flat graver. I cut a straight line with a standard 90-degree graver. Then I switch over to a flat graver. Putting one corner of the flat in the cut line, I drive the graver in along the line but with the edge at an angle. I roll the flat into the work and then back out again resulting in a little cut triangle. So I am rolling the flat into and out of the original cut line and proceeding along the direction of the border rather than at 90 degrees to it. I use the same flat graver to do the dots....and the same motion.....just very tiny and, obviously, with the point opposite the nicks. So I do the whole border with just two graver shapes.....90 degree and a flat. The intervals I do by eye. Mine are not all that consistently spaced when I blow the engraving up on the screen. But it looks OK at a distance.....I think... :o
On the frizzen, it seems to spark just fine, but I have never had any luck following the directions I have been given on how to re-harden a Chambers frizzen for example.....and I have tried several different methods....with torches, furnaces, charcoal packing, etc, etc. None of the processes that require a quench in a light oil (Canola) ever worked. What I do now is to paint the part, except for the frizzen face and toe, with an anti-scaling compound (from Brownells), let that dry, heat to a bright red with a Presto-Lite acetylene torch, dip the face and toe in Kasenit, keep it at a bright red temperature for a minute or so, and then quench in room temperature brine water. I know it is not recommended, but it works and I haven't had a cracked frizzen.....yet.
Some general comments on the Kibler Colonial Rifle kit.....
First of all, let me qualify my comments by saying that I have built several rifles and pistols from scratch, including hand making my own locks, but do not have much experience with kits. However, I have been asked to finish some kits that others had started and not completed. While the quality and precision varied considerably, I can say unequivocally that none that I worked on were up to the standard of Jim's kit. At the beginning of this thread, I mentioned that, excluding the little time it took to draw file the barrel, I had all the parts assembled in about 5 hours and the majority of that time was spent getting the brass parts from a cast surface finish to a near polish. That step could have taken much less time if the brass did not need to be taken to that high a finish level.....that was just my preference.
I don't think I spent more than a few minutes cutting any wood and getting parts to drop into the precisely cut mortises. This is the only kit I have ever personally worked on that I didn't have to spend time trying to re-orient and re-inlet parts to minimize the gaps left by over-cut inlets...or trying to patch gaps that just could not be made right by metal stretching, water soaking, etc.
As far as the architecture goes, I don't think there is anyone who will (or should ;)) contest Jim's excellent eye for style and authenticity. The kit is beautiful right out of the box. Again, just from a personal preference standpoint, I thinned out the wrist about an 1/8" top to bottom and the same amount from side to side. I then blended the new narrower wrist contour into the rest of the lines of the stock. The only other wood I took off was to thin the forearm some from the front of the lock panel to the muzzle. I think Jim left a tiny extra bit of wood there so the builder could decide to leave it or thin it as might be their preference.
Obviously from my posts, I decided to use the kit as a "canvas" for some engraving and carving which took the great bulk of the time I spent to finish the kit. I did not take the barrel metal finish beyond draw filing, so that didn't take very long. But because I wanted to engrave the lock, I did spend a fair amount of time polishing the lock parts to the level I like before engraving. And I did polish all the brass to a high level before engraving and then knocking back the finish level some during the light antiquing. But I will also say that the lock could easily have been left as it came from Jim and then browned or blued and been perfectly acceptable without the builder spending any great amount of additional time polishing.
The bottom line here is that if I had gathered parts for a nearly identical rifle, and purchased a good stock plank, then had the barrel inlet and ram rod hole drilled by David Rase (or one of the others who do that work), I would have spent considerably more money than the kit cost and I don't have to tell you how much more work it would have been to assemble the rifle. Now I understand that, often, there just isn't a kit that represents the type of rifle you might want to build and you just do not have a choice but to build from scratch. But if you are looking to build a Colonial type of early flintlock rifle, I don't think you can beat this kit from Jim.....and I am assuming here that the mountain rifle kit he offers falls into the same category. And as a final comment, I think you can tell from this series of posts that if you want to "customize" one of these rifles, there is really no limit to what can be done. What I did on this rifle certainly doesn't reflect everyone's taste in either the amount or style of carving and engraving (heck....I even don't like some of what I did here), but it does show that you can go from a simple, plain working rifle to one with "spoke wheels and a chrome trailer hitch".
Again, my compliments to Jim and Katherine.....I think I understand the level of commitment and the amount of difficult work it takes to put out a product as excellent as this rifle kit. As we say in the Navy with signal flags, "Brave Zulu" Jim and Katherine !!!!
(https://i.ibb.co/d6ND64B/Bravo-Zulu-Flags.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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Oh....by the way.....I have five rifles and five pistols on the bench all started from the plank. All have the barrels inletted and ram rod holes drilled. A few have locks inletted. After the speed and ease of building one of Jim's kits, I am really not looking forward to all the work yet to do on those other guns. I think I need to put all but one in a closet out of site and just pick on them one at a time.... ;)