AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: Born200years2late on December 26, 2019, 08:52:36 AM
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Long story short- my rifle was dry-balled and in trying to screw into it to pull it out I think we may have just stripped a hole through the ball. It’s still in there, the screw isn’t catching on anything anymore and all we have are a few slivers of lead out. I initially tried pouring and packing powder through the touchhole behind the shot but was not able to get enough behind it to dislodge the ball. Kinda at a loss now- what would you do next?
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Remove the barrel. Remove the breech plug and push the ball out.
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Try using a compressor to blow the charge and ball out. Another method would be to replace the nipple with a zerk grease fitting and pump the load out. This is very messy and requires significant clean-up, but it works. Lastly, would be to remove the breech plug.
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I know of one fellow who took barrel out of stock then slammed end of barrel on a 2x10 on the concrete floor,this moved the ball just far enough forward to get some extra 4f in it to work. I wouldn't recommend it but it did work.
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Fyrstyk is spot on IMO. The two operations most likely to result in a ruined gun are taking the barrel out of the stock, and unbreeching the barrel. I’ve got a whole pile of examples given to me over the years. Compressed air works well, as long as you haven’t bored a hole clear through the ball. But, don’t think you can’t shoot through your garage door given enough compressed air. The grease gun is probably the safest, but, of course its also the messiest.
Hungry Horse
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Remove the barrel. Remove the breech plug and push the ball out.
I’ve heard that you really can’t remove breech plugs on traditionally built rifles without messing it up. Is this true? If not how do you remove it without ruining the rifle?
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Fyrstyk is spot on IMO. The two operations most likely to result in a ruined gun are taking the barrel out of the stock, and unbreeching the barrel. I’ve got a whole pile of examples given to me over the years. Compressed air works well, as long as you haven’t bored a hole clear through the ball. But, don’t think you can’t shoot through your garage door given enough compressed air. The grease gun is probably the safest, but, of course its also the messiest.
Hungry Horse
I should’ve clarified that this is a flintlock so there’s nothing to screw the compressed air or grease gun to the barrel- though I’ve really liked your answer the best- any ideas?
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You could try squirting some oil (kroil) down the barrel and let it set for awhile. Then take a t-handled rod with the screw on it and take some steel wool (small amount) and wrap it around the screw and try starting to twist the screw back into the ball. the steel wool may fill the hole enough to get a grip on the ball.
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I have a ball puller that continually gets larger as it gets away from the point. Most taper about one thread Got it from a vendor at a match. Try Track of the wolf. Then do as said above and put a few drops of penetrating oil down the barrel before pulling on it. Use a steel or SS rod.
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You can remove the barrel driving the pins out slowly making sure not to damage the wood. Or if keys push them out. You would then need a large vise using brass shim stock so as not to mar the barrel. A large adjustable crescent wrench again with brass shim in jaws. Should do it. Soak in penetrating oil. Any Gun smiths by you?
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I’ve heard that you really can’t remove breech plugs on traditionally built rifles without messing it up. Is this true? If not how do you remove it without ruining the rifle?
Not true. Actually a tradionally built gun should be easier to unbreech. It was assembled, so it can be disassembled. Now, if you don’t know what you’re doing could you screw it up? Sure. Who made this gun?
I would blow down the barrel, if air easily passes out the touchhole, you likely have a hole thru the ball. I would try a larger diameter screw or one with a large taper like Standing Bear mentioned or bushed as Oldways suggested. If those fail, you will have to remove the breech plug, but the make of the gun matters, as the touchhole may be threaded into the breechplug.
-Ron
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Assuming the bore is dirty- coat it with some sort of lube so I doesn't rust while your waiting to fix it.
Pull the breech- or better yet get someone who knows how to pull it. With the right tools (vice, clamp and wrench) it is fairly simple.
Have no idea where your located so that's all I can offer.
Kevin
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I have never been unable to get a ball out and agree NEVER pull the barrel and breech plug unless all else fails.
1. Use a tapered screw of large enough diameter and range rod. Set it firmly into the ball and SLOWLY pull the ball.
2. Remove the lock and use a CO2 discharger.
3. Use the adaptor on the discharger and find a compressor and blow it out.
4. If you only get it to move a little and it strips screw the puller back into the ball, add some 4F and shoot it out.
5. If you don't commonly work on BP rifles find a B.P. Gunsmith and take it to him. After seeing some of the "butcher" jobs people have done to their own rifles by playing Jr. gunsmith I would not recommend pulling the barrel and breechplug yourself.
The "Muskrat" has spoken.
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I have a ball puller that continually gets larger as it gets away from the point. Most taper about one thread Got it from a vendor at a match. Try Track of the wolf. Then do as said above and put a few drops of penetrating oil down the barrel before pulling on it. Use a steel or SS rod.
+1. Track has a ball puller that is Christmas tree shaped (tapered) with a brass centering collar. That will thread into the ball even if your other ball puller stripped out. You only need to twist in a ball puller a few solid turns.
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Fyrstyk is spot on IMO. The two operations most likely to result in a ruined gun are taking the barrel out of the stock, and unbreeching the barrel. I’ve got a whole pile of examples given to me over the years. Compressed air works well, as long as you haven’t bored a hole clear through the ball. But, don’t think you can’t shoot through your garage door given enough compressed air. The grease gun is probably the safest, but, of course its also the messiest.
Hungry Horse
I should’ve clarified that this is a flintlock so there’s nothing to screw the compressed air or grease gun to the barrel- though I’ve really liked your answer the best- any ideas?
Is your touch hole just drilled in the wall of the barrel? Or is it a liner that has been cut flush and filed smooth?
Mike
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Fyrstyk is spot on IMO. The two operations most likely to result in a ruined gun are taking the barrel out of the stock, and unbreeching the barrel. I’ve got a whole pile of examples given to me over the years. Compressed air works well, as long as you haven’t bored a hole clear through the ball. But, don’t think you can’t shoot through your garage door given enough compressed air. The grease gun is probably the safest, but, of course its also the messiest.
Hungry Horse
I should’ve clarified that this is a flintlock so there’s nothing to screw the compressed air or grease gun to the barrel- though I’ve really liked your answer the best- any ideas?
Is your touch hole just drilled in the wall of the barrel? Or is it a liner that has been cut flush and filed smooth?
Mike
If your touch hole can be removed (un-screwed) you should be able to find a fitting with the same threads in which to attach a compressor hose. Some of the rubber tipped blower nozzles for compressors can work too if you hold the rubber tip tightly to the touch hole. I have removed several stuk balls from my friends guns using the grease fitting technique. Believe me, it works, but like I said, it is very messy and clean up is a bear.
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Lube the bore before you try to pull it again, if you didn't the first time. I haven't seen this mentioned, and in the heat of the frustration, things can be overlooked.
Once you get it moving it should come right on out. If you've drilled thru it, powder isn't going to move it, or grease, possibly air--but you'd need a bigger hole on the backside than a drilled touchhole. If you've drilled thru the ball, you need bigger threads as mentioned above. I don't know what is readily available but any hobby machinist or experienced tinkerer should be able to help you make something up to work with your equipment.
If you're comfortable taking the bbl out, and installing a touchhole liner--could drill and tap for such, then use a grease or air fitting to push it out (before fitting up your new liner). This could work with a thru-hole if you had big blasts of air--being mindful of what is "down range". Simply drilling for the liner could get into the ball, and provide enough access to manually get it moving or carve on it and peel it out.
If you're not comfortable disassembling the gun, find someone who is--not the first jasper who thinks he is, but someone who has built a M/L or two.
Enjoy the process as it gives you lots of ways to remember to -not- re-visit this whole process. Best of luck.
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Wade: you are a wise and noble man. Or at least one who has seen many of the problems people seem to have. Thanks for your knowledge and posts.
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Wade: you are a wise and noble man. Or at least one who has seen many of the problems people seem to have. Thanks for your knowledge and posts.
Well thanks, just trying to give back a little and still have plenty more to learn.
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The day we want to quit learning is the day we get planted.
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Find an air blow gun for the compressor that has a rubber tip on it, press it hard against the touch hole and blow.
Make sure the muzzle is pointed in a safe direction.
Harbour Freight has the air gun/ nozzles...cheap.
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Oil in the barrel. And a CO2 decharger with flintlock adapter. Seems as I get older this happens now and again. You can blow the ball out at the range no muss no fuss.
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If the ball has a hole through it, I doubt CO2 will work.
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That's the impression I got, Mike, that they have bored all the way through it.
Un-breeching or a larger dia. screw will be needed.
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I think I would sacrifice my screw to the cause. Grind of the centering disk of it has one and try to screw into the ball at the edge. With a hole in the center it may pull out easier if you could get a good bite with the screw.
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I’ve had that happen before, same circumstances... almost exactly. I soaked the inside bore with a large amount of transmission fluid then I found a metal screw that was slightly larger diameter than my ball puller. I then soldered the screw to a smaller jag I had laying around, as streight as I could and it worked like a charm. I then reheated screw and melted solder to re-use my jag as it was intended. Just make double sure your screw is as streight as possible on the jag, or it will try and Unscrew out of round and mess things up even further.
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If the hole is all the way through, could one screw the puller screw back into the ball tight enough for the grease gun trick to work? Or, with a range rod or other rod (not the one that comes with the gun) use the air compressor? I mention using a different rod as I see no way to unscrew the rod from the puller without unscrewing the puller from the ball.
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A larger screw should work to pull the ball. You should have the bore clean as possible and lubed with an oil.
You likely will not be able to unscrew the ball puller from the rod without unscrewing the screw from the ball.
If the rod and screw were in the ball and sealing it in the bore, a CO2 discharger might move it enough, to allow
pulling it the rest of the way out. I would not use grease under any circumstances. I'd rather pull the plug and
push the dang thing out from the breech.
1 thing is certain, you have to get it out and cleaned as soon as possible.
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??? Sacrifice the puller by putting a dab of 2 part epoxy on it, screw it into the ball, pull ball, unscrew puller from rod,,,,, mount ball an puller on trophy plaque. ???
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Brokennock: that is the best idea yet.
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Brokennock: that is the best idea yet.
Wonder if the OP got the ball a movin' yet?
And you don't have to lose the puller to epoxy if you don't want to. Heat breaks epoxy.
But would be a good wall hanging--I'd title one: Powder First!
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Another thought, one could use a larger screw to plug hole in ball, then oil the inside of the bore, then used compressed air to attempt a discharge? I know it’s close to another idea already said.. but I like using what I have available and an air compressor I have...another thought, I don’t know about the two part epoxy, everything has to be very clean for that to be effective enough to pull a ball. I’d not trust it, might make yet even a larger mess!
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I had a rifle brought to me with this problem. I have a CO2 discharger, so I loaded another patched ball down the bore to make a seal, and blew both out easily.
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I had a rifle brought to me with this problem. I have a CO2 discharger, so I loaded another patched ball down the bore to make a seal, and blew both out easily.
Dang, why didn’t I think of that one? Good idea!
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I am itching to see if the OP got the ball out, and if so - HOW?
Lots of excellent ideas here, which I will keep in mind should it ever happen (again) to me.
Was going to mention one I repaired with TWO bullets in the barrel, but that was with modern weapons.