AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Contemporary Longrifle Collecting => Topic started by: borderdogs on January 20, 2020, 01:21:54 AM
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Hi Guys,
Here is a picture of my Plains rifles the one on top is a .58 Kit Carson Hawken the bottom one is A .50 caliber full stock Hawken.
Rob
(https://i.ibb.co/k4qQrDW/20200118-102500-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7nr2Tp6)
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OK! Never really got very excited about the Hawken even though most in our shooting group seemed to be smitten and were something of Hawkenolics. But then I read a great article in Muzzleloader a while back. And then I ran upon the Browners of St. Louis. AND THEN I met Mr. Hawken my very good friend Don S.
And Don showed us a "little" St. Louis squirrel rifle that he personally made. And the walls came tumbling down. Super little rifle in every way. 38 cal with a choked barrel by J. Coodgen (sp?). The barrel is about 37 inches. Wonderful Bob Roller lock and maybe triggers but not sure about the triggers. GRAND full stock maple beautifully finished and a silver box of high style. I think Don said he did not engrave the box however. We even have a photo of Don and I when he entrusted it to our future care. Love it!
(https://i.ibb.co/kHw8K9H/DSCF0005.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mD2qJXD)
(https://i.ibb.co/QH8cyh0/DSCF0004.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vdsB0f9)
(https://i.ibb.co/bK1JJnX/DSCF0006.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yQ0SSJq)
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Here is my collection of plains/Hawken rifles the top two I posted in the first picture the third one is a John Browning .50 caliber and the bottom one is a .32 caliber Hawken squirrel rifle which I am still working on developing a load. I had some problems getting this rifle to shoot and in another post on black powder shooting I was asking for help on the problems I was having. I finally got that worked out and its shooting fine now.
A little back ground on the first two both were made by Brant Selb the full stock one I just got, the Kit Carson I got about three years ago. It took a bit to get this rifle to shoot right not the rifles fault but the shooters. I can shoot a group of around 1 1/2" at 50 yards I have put around 100 to 150 rounds through that rifle and would like to take it elk hunting at some point. Before that I would need more work with that rifle. The John Browning I have had for around 12 years or so and I had a weak mainspring problem with that rifle when I got it. I was able to buy a second spring and it shoots fine.
I like the simplicity of the plains rifles and how practical they are. At some point I would like to build a full stock flint in .50 caliber.
Rob
(https://i.ibb.co/h7vkBJW/20200118-102559-6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/w01TSFW)
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Here's a pair of .62 cal. rifles. The percussion is mine and I built the flint rifle for a buddy. Since this photo, the flint rifle was lost in a fire, and I case hardened in colours the hardware of my rifle.
(https://i.ibb.co/Pjmgr3W/100-1565.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4tmpF9S)
(https://i.ibb.co/ySKPLMN/DSCN6415.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pyNwCs1)
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That beautiful flintlock gun lost in a fire.The only "positive" thing about that sorry event is
that at least the owner knows what happened to it which is "better"that loss to a low life
thief.My shop was broken into and some powder,lead and a partly finished mini creedmoor
40 caliber rifle was stolen.I am 99% sure I know who it was but can't prove it.
Bob Roller
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That's too bad about that flintlock I like both of those rifles Taylor but I think the flint is my favorite.
Rob
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(https://i.ibb.co/yyfHkms/20200112-104936.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k8HNDVc)
this is my 1st attempt at posting a photo heres my hawken long way to go.
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Adam: they all start like that or similarly, with a board.
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Here's a Hawken I made for a friend back in the late 80's. It is walnut and I tried to add a little T. Campbell influence to it. The late Murrell Amos engraved and checkered the rifle. It has a .62 cal and an interchangeable. 50 cal. barrel.
(https://i.ibb.co/vzhFjCj/2013-02-18-08-10-08crop1-A.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/VjR8pr1/2013-02-18-08-09-53crop.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/mNHMthJ/2013-02-18-08-11-43crop.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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Here's one I built for myself in 1980, with a Dimick flair. It now resides in Finland.
(https://i.ibb.co/Y2ZBsH4/DSCN1080.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hsfFz3x)
(https://i.ibb.co/B3N52dW/DSCN1088.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F3VL4NZ)
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Here's one I built for myself in 1980, with a Dimick flair. It now resides in Finland.
(https://i.ibb.co/Y2ZBsH4/DSCN1080.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hsfFz3x)
(https://i.ibb.co/B3N52dW/DSCN1088.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F3VL4NZ)
You do build some fine looking rifles Taylor!
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Love that Dimick Taylor!I like Hawkens,but love the Trade Guns.Not everyone and his mother have them!Since I am not near as talented as this forum's gun builders,I can't wait for a Kibler Hawken or Trade Gun!
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Meant to say Plains rifles instead of Trade Rifles in my post.
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(https://i.ibb.co/NYgZPH9/fullsizeoutput-255.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BsHqxSy)
I'm not sure if the top one qualifies as a plains rifle. It's an original and I don't know its history. The barrel had an under rib at one time.
It's a .69 cal with an 1 3/8" barrel. The sights are replacements.
The second is my .58 Hawken full stock.
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Here's a pair Taylor built.
(https://i.ibb.co/VJFnN95/100-6524-zpsq9njnfbf.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hLGQM9w)
(https://i.ibb.co/qJRtfvp/100-6520-zpsgw7hy8f7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QD62R4M)
(https://i.ibb.co/6PmvtZf/100-6522-zpspnrg2zwj.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gT3vW7B)
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taylor you build some beautiful rifles, how about the pistol grip hawken.
that qualifies in my book
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I really love those full stock flint Hawken rifles they look just right to me. I think a full stock flint might be my next Hawken rifle......
Rob
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Don’t got one yet but today, I sent off a down payment to Brant Selb for one of his Hawkens. Should be about an 18 month wait, but from my readings it should be worth it.
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My personal Hawken made in 1985. I carried it in the Rockies in the same year. It has a .60 cal. and an interchangeable .47 cal barrel. Too old to make that trip again it was a fine hunt. Tim Cosby
(https://i.ibb.co/9TFqYkh/20131012-115614.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/cr4K5QH/20131012-115706.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/4jGm6Tv/20131012-115556.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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You should search "Herb" a member here he's made several
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Posting these for blienemann
(https://i.ibb.co/zrq4JG8/ca-1980-Hawkens-locks-email.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vH0jYZs)
(https://i.ibb.co/swHPcQT/AMM-nat-South-Park-CO-email.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1q6nBKC)
About 1980, made in the Rockies and carried there, before digital cameras . . .
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Tim- well done on that stock wood choice! WOW!
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Here's a .50 I custom made for Rachel.
(https://i.ibb.co/R2pPVX2/Rachel.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qBM9PHB)
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Man, I need to bite the bullet and get another one of these. Thanks for posting all...
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That's a neat rifle Herb,
Rob
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Lienemann, those are nice looking Hawkens.
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Thank you, Herb - means a lot coming from you. Back in late 70's and early 80's there were some fine builders in Colorado, and i was fortunate to learn with them. Then the Hawken craze shifted to black powder cartridge, and for a decade or two you could buy fine Hawken rifles for $500. I worked backwards in time to colonial work and even Europe over the years, but it feels real good to see some interest shifting back to the Shinin' Mountains and the rifles that were carried here. Bob
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Here's a .50 I custom made for Rachel.
(https://i.ibb.co/R2pPVX2/Rachel.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qBM9PHB)
I am glad I am NOT the only geezer on this forum that has a lovely young woman in
his life.My young friend is 29 and a history teacher whose education was remiss and
she has blacker than black hair and green eyes.Also close to being engaged to a fine
young man who figured out he has a treasure in his life.
BobRoller
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Here's a .50 I custom made for Rachel.
(https://i.ibb.co/R2pPVX2/Rachel.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qBM9PHB)
Rachel is very pretty and her rifle is too!
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Pistol-Grip Hawken:
(https://i.ibb.co/DtLt8ZP/100-4502-zps5ff3ce9c.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xD3DfNK)
(https://i.ibb.co/HgHf4hJ/100-4504-zps89e9601a.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cTrS3Ym)
(https://i.ibb.co/h7F50kV/100-4472-zps778d8d32.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QbvB0ZM)
(https://i.ibb.co/Ybm0WRm/100-4478-zpse2013245.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g6N47jN)
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A unique and extremely nice rifle Daryl.
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Daryl, thanks for adding photos of this hawken I really like it.
must be because its a little different. kind like me.
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I have two Hawken Rifles. One full stock percussion 54 caliber made by John Bergman and another Half Stock made by Roger Sells. It is a 50 caliber Kit Carson. I don't have a picture of my Bergman Hawkjen but here is a link to his web site showing various rifles he has made.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/flntlok/page1
I do have a picture of my Roger Sells Hawken.
(https://i.ibb.co/Tq0B22z/copyhawken.jpg) (https://ibb.co/prKvwwC)
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Here is my percussion, Bill Large 54 cal barrel. Bob Roller lock and triggers, my son and grandson up in Minnesota have "borrowed" it along with my fullstock flint Hawken.
(https://i.ibb.co/b321K1g/DSCN1484.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7zRv1vJ)
(https://i.ibb.co/RDmZYkN/DSCN1485.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bKZqQMF)
(https://i.ibb.co/4JjyTmJ/DSCN1487.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g6D1Tj6)
(https://i.ibb.co/jDd3yCj/DSCN1490.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7KHrn30)
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Keeping the thread rolling- or would that be pulling?-
There is my copy of an original Wiliam Hawken St. Louis rifle that was for sale on Gunbroker, with enough photos that I was able to scale it out and build this copy. This barrel is a 13/16" x 36" GRRW that I described in RE: Sights Help by Smokey Plainsman Jan 24th, the one Bill straightened for me. Here it was entered in a juried art show where it won first place in the sculpture division, theme "Rusty Rails and Outlaw Trails".
(https://i.ibb.co/sCFn56P/PICT0040.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f9Cf8nS)
I don't remember what this top rifle with the .54 GRRW barrel was to become. Second one is a .54 Douglas barreled rifle I built from a stick (I think), or maybe an inletted blank. Can't find my early pictures. Third is a .58 flinter that is now owned by Hatchet Jack. Taylor Sapergia bought it from me to replace one for Hatchet Jack that got burned in a fire, probably the one Taylor just posted on, here. Hatchet just wrote me that in the six years he has had it, he put just over 10,400 rounds through it, and he keeps records of each shot. That is after the maybe 1500 rounds I shot it, can't remember.
Fourth one is Rachel's (in my post pictured above) before finishing, .50 caliber.
(https://i.ibb.co/JFmvZDG/DSC00222.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M5ZcdFt)
I engraved the lock and barrel of that .54 Douglas, and after a couple thousand rounds and about 16 years, gave it to my nephew.
(https://i.ibb.co/m4Sb6Yw/smithhaw.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YhbPpKM)
My second .58 fullstock flinter, now Hatchet Jack's, then the engraved .54, next a .40 Squirrel rifle/regular Hawken hybrid, then Rachel's, finished.
(https://i.ibb.co/tqCKHkZ/Four-Hawk-Long.jpg) (https://ibb.co/D9KW1sG)
Side view of the same rifles.
(https://i.ibb.co/HYhkRHD/Four-Hawkens.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NpTHfy6)
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Nice rifles! Herb, where did you acquire the parts for the .40 Squirrel rifle?
Rob
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Black Powder Shooting / Re: Scaled down Hawken type rifles?
« Message by Herb on December 10, 2010, 06:24:18 PM »
Smoke PM'd me to ask where I got the parts. Most are from Track of the Wolf, including the pewter for the nose cap. .40 CAPLOCK BRIDGER HAWKEN PARTS:
Lock, Jim Bridger Hawken percussion, by R.E. Davis, $82.50
Stock, maple halfstock blank, grade 4 sugar maple, TOW, 45.00
Barrel, Rice Barrel Co., 7/8x31" .40 caliber, 1-48 twist, round bottom grooves, 135.00
Breech, Hawken squirrel patent breech, 15/16" octagon, 5/8 x 18 thread, 31.00
Rib, 24" lipped steel octagon, Muzzleloader Builders Supply, 15.00
Butt Plate, Jim Bridger Classic Early Hawken, wax cast steel, BP-HAWK-JB-I, 20.00
Front sight, wax cast steel, FS-G-355-I, 6.50
Rear sight, semi-buckhorn wax cast steel, RS-PA-16, 6.50
Nipple, Hot Shot by Thompson Center, 4.00
Underlug for barrel staple, handmade from nail, 1.00
Wedge key, slotted wax cast steel, Key 36-I, 4.00
Inlay, slotted oval, iron, two IN-SLOT-2-I, 3.50
Toeplate, Early Hawken iron, TP-HAWK-3-I, 5.50
Forend cap, poured pewter, 10.00
Rod entry pipe, round with skirt, iron, 3/8", RP-TC-RE-6-I, 5.50
Rod pipes 3/8 steel, forward, two handmade, 10.00
Sideplate, Hawken wax cast steel, SP-HP-1-I, 3.00
Trigger, Ron Long Hawken double set, TR-PA-20, 55.00
Triggerguard, Late Hawken Half-Stock, wax cast steel, TG-HAWK-H-I, 18.00
Ramrod, 3/8" hickory, handmade, two, 10.00
Rod tips, brass, 8x32, two, 2.50
Rod tips, 3/8" brass jag and 3/8" breech face scraper, 4.00
Rod tip with steel ball puller, and cap, brass, 5.00
Stain, Fiebings dark brown oil leather dye and Muzzleloader Builders Color Rich, 5.00
Finish, Formby's high gloss tung oil, 2.00
Metal Finish, Laurel Mountain Forge Barrel Brown Degreaser, 2.00
Bolts, 8x32 tang and lock, plus ten screws, 4.00
Shipping, three sources, 38.00
TOTAL PARTS COST: 533.50.
I furnish such a list of parts for all rifles I build, usually with complete part numbers. Also a "GUNSMITH'S CERTIFICATE": .40CAPLOCK BRIDGER HAWKEN
This is a shorter, lighter rifle based on a Jim Bridger Hawken. All the hardware is the same except the Rice barrel is a 7/8" .40 caliber 31 inches long, fitted with a Hawken squirrel patent breech. The grade 4 maple stock is a little smaller in the forend, but the buttstock is of the same dimestions as a .54 Bridger Hawken I built for Ron XXXXX in April, 2000.
Ron wanted a lighter, smaller caliber Hawken for casual target shooting and we arranged a trade. This smaller rifle has the correct Hawken parts, a Bridger lock, early buttplate, late triggerguard, toe plate and side plate and Ron Long double set triggers. I browned the metal with 10 coats of rust and sealed it with hot beeswax. The stock is finished with dark brown dye and ten coats of Formby's gloss tung oil.
I engraved the lock after the pattern of an original J&S Hawken lock, and so stamped it. The engraving was done on the browned plate and hammer, so it stands out white, as Ron wanted it on the .54 Hawken.
The parts cost $533.50 and it took me about 120 hours to build this rifle.
I stamped the bottom flat of the barrel at the breech "Built by Herbert G. Troester for Ron XXXXX Vernal, Utah January 2008 SN34".
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Thanks Herb thats a great list for reference!
Rob
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Might this rifle qualify as a plains Hawken style rifle? Made by a member of the Adelaide Muzzle loading club over 30 years ago. All iron mounts and in .50,
(https://i.ibb.co/Sx5NXGT/P1030393.jpg) (https://ibb.co/H2B7D3v)
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Don King Hawkens at the Chadron Rendezvous in 1973
(https://i.ibb.co/xfmLC1x/Yk-Y73z-Pc-Sw-GYr-WYv-WGk-WKw-thumb-7b60.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yYhPf6H)
More at the Montana Historical Gunmakers Fair 2010
(https://i.ibb.co/wC1z8mc/UNADJUSTEDNONRAW-thumb-696a.jpg) (https://ibb.co/q9wrhQJ)
(https://i.ibb.co/6X2xmy5/UNADJUSTEDNONRAW-thumb-4e49.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7kH5XSF)
(https://i.ibb.co/k6MbC1K/UNADJUSTEDNONRAW-thumb-4e4b.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3Yk6Zz1)
(https://i.ibb.co/CzFJfq7/UNADJUSTEDNONRAW-thumb-4e4d.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1Lxsk3q)
(https://i.ibb.co/Gp4mBpy/UNADJUSTEDNONRAW-thumb-4e4f.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NCdRQC5)
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(https://i.ibb.co/zb4BJxD/UNADJUSTEDNONRAW-thumb-6966.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4MVXdt3)
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I think there are only 3 castings in these Don King rifles the cock, frizzen and frizzen spring. He used some original forged springs for mainsprings. The lock internal parts for the guns, were made by Carney Pace and the same internals were used in Schillingers Hawken lock. Don made everything else in shop except the barrels which were Douglas. He used an original FS Hawken he had access to as a pattern for the stock.
I have no idea how many Don made. He stopped journaling his work in 1971-72. I have owned 3 over the years and still have 2. Got broke and sold Big Timber #1 made for John Baird years ago. :-\ Would like to have it back.....
Dan
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Heelerau- Yes, Gordon, that is a nice plains rifle.
Dan- I didn't know Carney made lock parts. I think he has a Don King rifle, don't know what it is, but not a Hawken style. Very nice rifles.
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Loving those full stock Hawken/Plains rifles! I have GOT to get me a bunch of brass tacks for this Don Stith St. Louis Rifle I am working on!
I pick up a ton of knowledge every time Herb posts stuff. Thanks to all for the pics.
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iloco, that is a nice Hawken by Roger Sells. The key heads are on the left, which most Hawkens seem to have. The Kit Carson pictures show the heads on the right, but the keys are not pinned, and according to the report from Phil Meek and my friend Bob Clemans, who handled this rifle recently, the Secretary (Don Helberg?) of the Masonic Lodge in Sante Fe, a treasure trove of information, said the key heads used to be on the left! (If the keys are removed, they can be replaced from either side).
Heinz, you have a nice Hawken rifle. It is nice to have our rifles get used, and have sons (and daughters) and grandchildren who appreciate our work and use our rifles. I've also given a half dozen or so of mine away.
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Thanks Herb!
I enjoyed looking at yours also. And that trove that Taylor posted
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I have to agree I love those full stocks too!
Rob
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Here are some more I built.
Copy of Jim Bridger .54. A .54 Kit Carson copy (key heads on the right). .54 don't remember. .58 flintlock (see Muzzleloader Magazine Jul/Aug 2015, "A Diamond Mountain Mulle Deer Hunt" (Editors's spelling)). Ron's .40 light Hawken.
(https://i.ibb.co/9ZJ038w/5-Hawkens-vertical.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Hh0ypFN)
Same rifles, left view.
(https://i.ibb.co/4SdWb4Z/Five-Hawkens-Left.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vdY1NLx)
A full sized photo of the Bridger Hawken with my lastest (and last) copy of it. It is scaled exactly the same but looks larger because it is closer. Just made the front sight today. Will post photos when I finish it up, only got maybe 300 hours in it so far......
(https://i.ibb.co/qYpQGTC/Bridger-photo-Knob-Mtn-full.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JjHJLDq)
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These were my first three Hawkens.
(https://i.ibb.co/6sgCvTV/P1010020-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C0hGJYN)
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Those are prettily built rifles, nice work, alacran You sure have color in them! I'm enjoying these postings, keep them coming!
I looked at my photos some more and discovered that if you left click the photo, the original image comes up in imgbb. A little magnifying glass with a + sign in it may also show, and if I left click again, it enlarges the photo. You can see a lot more detail that way. Below the picture it shows what camera was used. If you click on the blue lettering "more exit data", at the bottom it shows the date the photo was taken.
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Yes indeed alacran really nice color! As Herb said I am enjoying these postings too I am with him keep them coming!
Rob
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Dan The pictures of Some of Don's Hawken and Plain rifles sure brings back memories..I think I watched him work on the first full stock 69-70 something like that. I don't know if this is true or not but Don said the first full stock he found down south east of Wichita ,out in the country.The old people collected shaving mugs and he traded some for ether the Hawken .or just got it to copy. I just don't remember the facts. I'm pushing 82 and I can tell my memory just is not as sharp as it once was. I know he kept the original while he was building that first one I saw. I wish now I had gotten himto build me a Hawken and not the venson. But GI's didn't make much as a S/Sgt.in the late 60's.
Take care my friend
George Hebling
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(https://live.staticflickr.com/4206/35540532610_e4f3d78a87_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/W9Aw8C)100_1479 (https://flic.kr/p/W9Aw8C) by Steve Zihn (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156296479@N08/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4294/35758957972_423f133d5d_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WtU1o9)100_1812 (https://flic.kr/p/WtU1o9) by Steve Zihn (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156296479@N08/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4326/35758954922_45420becd9_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/WtTZty)Wes's 1.1 (https://flic.kr/p/WtTZty) by Steve Zihn (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156296479@N08/), on Flickr
And inspired by Peloux
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4032/34852939973_2eabeb4374_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/V6QqNa)Copy of L.H. Peloux 1 (https://flic.kr/p/V6QqNa) by Steve Zihn (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156296479@N08/), on Flickr
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Since you guys are getting your Hawken rifle fever up, I thought I would post the following information.
Art Fleener
NMLRA Secretary
https://www.nmlra.org/hawkenhistoryclassic
HAWKEN HISTORY RECREATED
With Pleasure, the NMLRA is proud to announce the establishment of the Hawken History Classic in St. Louis, MO. St. Louis is the home of Jake and Sam Hawken, as well as the famous Hawken Rifle, to celebrate their 200th anniversary we will be organizing these annual gathers each fall from 2021-2025.
These events will be an experience never seen before, focusing on Hawken History, education, and living history. We have partnered with The Hawken Shop as well as the Historic Daniel Boone Home to include a variety of Hawken Shooting Sports activities.
If you are interested in being a part of this event, please contact the NMLRA Office. We will be working hard in the coming months to share more about the event as we build. Thank you for your patience.
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One full stock .58 caliber made by Mike Nesbitt, the other a .54 made by the Gun Works Muzzleloading Emporium in Springfield, Oregon. Don't let 'um hang on walls get out and use them as Sam & Jake would have wanted.
(https://i.ibb.co/j4XYJ9p/Hunting2016-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XJRPYfw)
(https://i.ibb.co/5sSb6fS/Hunting2016-6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/c2Z417Z)
free online image host (https://imgbb.com/)
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I currently only have one Hawken rifle. I built it in 2011 around a Rice .62 cal x 36" tapered barrel and a Robert Roller lock. The rifle weighs just over 11 pounds, and is superbly accurate.
(https://i.ibb.co/9TBB0LR/DSC-0912.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VSbbGZX)
(https://i.ibb.co/bbkGvqn/DSC-0352.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hYSTdhv)
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I'm posting some more pictures for Bob Lienemann.
Like Dan said, Don King did them right per an original, and he made locks, triggers and mounts to match the old guns. Here are a few details of his work.
(https://i.ibb.co/VD8L41F/king-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5vV1H0Q)
(https://i.ibb.co/QmM7pZd/king-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cTQKkPL)
(https://i.ibb.co/9GZfZzS/king-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kMmrmkv)
Of course, the Hawken brothers didn't just make rifles. Here’s Joe Corley’s copy of an original J & S HAWKEN marked pistol, originally flint but converted to percussion.
(https://i.ibb.co/G5C4YPM/corley-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LZ9Xjpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/7JFQ5Ts/corley-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RpWNmMR)
And a copy I made, with coaching from Jack Brooks to suggest a stub twist barrel, with case hardened breechplug and mounts.
(https://i.ibb.co/4FG3x8C/bob-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WHwj1k7)
(https://i.ibb.co/Dwqvgjb/bob-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yg3ZBxR)
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I love those pistols! What is their caliber? What lock are they equipped with?
Rob
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Rob, the pistols are .58, straight barrels about 7" long like the original pistol. The original was converted to drum and nipple, with a round tailed plate, so we've used the old Ron Long flintlock, later made by Davis - now taken over by Log Cabin Shop, and the Hawken Shop also has this lock. Modified a bit.
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These guns are inferior to the earlier flintlocks and are boring and uninteresting, and take 0 skill to shoot and any fool with half a brain cell can operate one, and despite replacing flintlocks almost universally in a handful of years both in military and civilian hands everywhere around the globe, somehow the caplocks are inferior technology not worthy of any serious study.
Or, so say the flintlock elitist naysayers.
;)
-Smokey
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These guns are inferior to the earlier flintlocks and are boring and uninteresting, and take 0 skill to shoot and any fool with half a brain cell can operate one, and despite replacing flintlocks almost universally in a handful of years both in military and civilian hands everywhere around the globe, somehow the caplocks are inferior technology not worthy of any serious study.
Or, so say the flintlock elitist naysayers.
;)
-Smokey
I THINK the bloody UNcivil war was fought with mostly percussion fired guns and toward the end of that
sorry episode,repeatng rifles started to appear.Today the flint locks are recreational items and the study
of these marvelous mechanisms is a real treat for the firearms historians.The locks that came into being
when the caplocks started making inroads into custom guns were designed and made by obstructionists
that were determined to make the flintlock dominant but they finally had to admit defeat.One argument
against the percussion fired guns was that war would become even more horrible than ever by using
guns that were more certain to fire.I wonder what these people would say about today's guns that
can fire 6000 shots a minute and maybe more??
Bob Roller
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blienemann,
.58 in that pistol would be quite a wallop. Have you shot yours often? what kind of load do you use.
Taylor, what was the range on the moose you shot? What was the load used? I love those pictures too.
Rob
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Rob: the first one was at 80 yards and the second at 86 yards. Both were standing still staring at me.
The load was a .613" pure lead ball from a .610 Lyman mould. .020 denim patch lubed with mink oil/grease over 127 gr. FFg GOEX. Both were pass through's...no ball recovery. They were both excellent eating, feeding our extended families for nearly two years each.
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Rob, the finish on that rifle is just straight beeswax over and into the wood/stain.
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It was NOT the un-civil war it was as my great uncle called it "the war of northern aggression"
As for the topic of this post I live in an area where the Hawken & plains rifles are king. I find them to be too heavy and for the most part unbalanced. Due to the stock configuration they also tend to kick like the perverberal Gerogia mule. I won't even enter the discussion of cap lock vs flintlock, other than to say I have owned and shot both extensively and now own no cap locks and believe if the good Lord wanted you to shoot caps he would have sprinkled them on the ground instead of shards of flint.
So sayeth the "Muskrat"
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Here's a .54 Hawken pistol kit I finished for Randy. 30 grains of Goex 2F
(https://i.ibb.co/cgwyCQz/hawkpist.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Tv1wbtz)
Returning to the theme of Hawken/Plains Rifles-
A .54 Stith kit I finished for a guy in the Aleutian Islands per his specifications. .58 Fullstock flint- Engraved .54- don't remembr last two, based on Kit Carson's Hawken.
(https://i.ibb.co/09R3KzX/5Hawkens.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fNz79TS)
My Bridger Hawken before I finished staining it, my engraved .54 and the .58 flinter with a target shot with Swiss 1 1/2F
(https://i.ibb.co/RvPS6kL/3-Hawken-Pwdr-Test.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2nP6M1X)
One of my first few, a .54 GRRW barrel and a stock I whittled out of a piece of hard West Virginia walnut. Had a hard time inletting that left-hand Davis lock, they are NOT a mirror image of a right-hand lock- my Bridger- a .45 Leman trade rifle I built in the GRRW shop in 1978- a .50 BRASS mounted Hawken (original was at the Cody Museum)- .58 flint Hawken-inspired rifle- A .40 Hawken plains/Missouri squirrel rifle hybrid- a .50 antelope rifle (see Muzzleloader Magazine Nov/Dec 2019 "A Utah Pronghorn Hunt". (You can left-click the picture to bring up the original, click the + to enlarge).
(https://i.ibb.co/MhGTqdb/Six-my-Hawkens-Bobs-Leman-good.jpg) (https://ibb.co/59nDqZd)
My brass mounted rifle and Jim Gordon's photos of it.
(https://i.ibb.co/9rQ3BB7/DSC03642.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KrTzBBJ)
Closer view of Gordon's photos.
(https://i.ibb.co/bXrxTC1/DSC03643.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1T931PZ)
So much for now. Got to go do the finish stock filing and sanding of my last Jim Bridger copy so I can move on to several more Carson copies.
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He is my first Hawken attempt....
(https://i.ibb.co/pxYptjx/hshawk.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kxNFR2x)
(https://i.ibb.co/KbCyh2f/DSC01186.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0mPJ2C6)
(https://i.ibb.co/KKX18t5/DSC01187.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CPzrSjw)
(https://i.ibb.co/XtVq47L/DSC01184.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rHvVtx0)
(https://i.ibb.co/nrTrvhZ/DSC01190.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BLmLx8d)
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snrub47, you did that purty good. No flies on that one. Looks like a Stith trigger guard.
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Hi Guys,
Would a patch box be rare on a Hawken flint or better put an early Hawken?
Rob
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There are quite a few extant Hawken rifles that have patch boxes, and more that have cap boxes, so it would be reasonable to think that the brothers put them on flint rifles too.
Here's one I added to a Percussion rifle...
(https://i.ibb.co/M8GJ7HH/100-8095.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JxySHTT)
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Hi Guys,
Would a patch box be rare on a Hawken flint or better put an early Hawken?
Rob
Well, we can only speculate. The one flintlock J&S Hawken I feel good about is a robust fullstock without a patchbox. Fixed breech.
-
Hi Guys,
Would a patch box be rare on a Hawken flint or better put an early Hawken?
Rob
On a Hawken FLINT?? Who has ever seen one with or without a patch box ?
Bob Roller
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Some comments on my photos above. If you enlarge the Swiss 1 1/2 photo by left-clicking it, you can read my target. Note that a powder measure (the first one on the left) that held 100 grains by weight of Goes 2F held 117 grains of Swiss 1 1/2F by weight! That is one reason Swiss is called hotter, and why I make measures to hold by weight each charge of each powder. The black can is the first Olde Eynsford sold at Fort Bridger, I bought it in September 2012, it is 1 1/2F. The can is marked "test sample NOT FOR SALE".
Then the photo of the brass-mounted Hawken. It was not out for Bob and me to measure at the firearms museum in Cody when we photographed and measured all the Hawkens which were available to us in December, 2018. It is quite different. I scaled it out from Gordon's photo, using a measurement of 4.85" for the lock plate, which we measured on Liver Eating Johnson's lock, shown on page 375 of Gordon's book. It scales out 52.8" long, with a 36.4" barrel, 18" fore end, snail to nose cap (LEJ's is 14" measured), and a length of pull of 14.27" (LEJ's was 13.375"). It is unlike other Hawkens, except the WS Hawken, which is so totally different as to be ugly to my eyes. Besides, the bore is very rough. We measured that one, too, or tried to, the bore was so rough I could not determine a diameter.
Another comment on caliber listed in the Cody Museum web page. They measured the muzzles with a tapered brass bore gauge and think that is the caliber, but all Hawkens have a relieved muzzle, and the actual bore diameter is smaller. We pushed sized bore "jag" gauges into the bores to actually measure them. Liver Eating Johnson's rifle bore is .583" at the muzzle but .537 in the bore. We measured the twist and got one inch in 50.8", which is probably really 1-48".
Gordon's book pictures 29 "Plains rifle" Hawkens, and eight have patch boxes and one a cap box.
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So if building a copy of an early Hawken it could have a capbox, fixed breach, and pinned barrel?
Rob
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Here is a link to a video from the NRA National Museum on the Hawken brothers and rifles:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOZL-zVY5wY
The rifle in the video looks like a Hawken squirrel rifle and has a cap box on it. Could you expect to see a cap box like this on an early Hawken rifle?
Rob
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Don made this pair for A.J. White.
He told me he was going to make pair of Mantons initially. He made them without SS triggers but reacquired them and then gave one to a friend and put a set trigger and cut the lock plate for a safety. The other pistol came back to him and they eventually came to me I put a SS in the other so they matched. Need to plug the lock plate on the one but have not done so yet. 54 caliber 1" Douglas barrels.
Dan
(https://i.ibb.co/0G8xTKP/UNADJUSTEDNONRAW-thumb-a4a0.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CHNfg6x)
(https://i.ibb.co/NNhgbtN/UNADJUSTEDNONRAW-thumb-a4a1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jwK9sbw)
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The only issue I have with the NRA video is at the end they state most of the early rifles that made their way west were stamped Hawken. Most of the "plains" rifles were of other manufacturers as they cost about 1/2 of what Sam & Jake got for theirs. If you had the money after getting outfitted with food, clothing, lead, powder, traps horses, mules and all the other sundry items needed if you could afford it you would get a Hawken. Just a small point of fact. As to there not being any surviving examples of flintlock, there had to be Sam & Jake were set up and were doing business before caps were readily available. They were some of the earliest advocates for cap locks and most of the flints either didn't survive or were converted to percussion at a later date.
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Dan,
Those are nice pistols and they match well. I remember those pistols GRRW back in the late 70's I always thought those were pretty neat.
Rob
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The only issue I have with the NRA video is at the end they state most of the early rifles that made their way west were stamped Hawken. Most of the "plains" rifles were of other manufacturers as they cost about 1/2 of what Sam & Jake got for theirs. If you had the money after getting outfitted with food, clothing, lead, powder, traps horses, mules and all the other sundry items needed if you could afford it you would get a Hawken. Just a small point of fact. As to there not being any surviving examples of flintlock, there had to be Sam & Jake were set up and were doing business before caps were readily available. They were some of the earliest advocates for cap locks and most of the flints either didn't survive or were converted to percussion at a later date.
Except the S Hawken FS that was originally FL in the Smithsonian>
While they were advocates of the percussion system, or so some say, the percussion system was not all that popular with many until well into the 1830s. About the time the Hawken most people would recognize was evolving.
Dan
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First from scratch build for me from the late 1970s. This is the same one I'm holding in my avatar along with my first flintlock deer as well...that was in 1978. John Anderson from Tullahoma, Tennessee mentored me through this project. John always had a special talent for building Hawken rifles.
(https://i.ibb.co/WD8FQmF/20200205-083941.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wJGCT5C)
(https://i.ibb.co/myv1xPn/20200205-084016.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FYsNPdQ)
(https://i.ibb.co/0hjcmxH/20200205-084731.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m6CGb3f)
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Very nice Robin,
Rob
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I like it.
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Yes- that is nicely done. Lovely gain structure in that rifle with perfect staining.
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Robin, that is a nice rifle. Your wood furniture is beautiful. Did you make it? Here is more info on original Hawken rifles, or copies of them, from a book by Carl P. Russell:
(https://i.ibb.co/fH8Vndt/Russell-page-91.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m4vrX5t)
Did I mention that these original rifles were heavy?
(https://i.ibb.co/yNmTtq6/Russell-page-92.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9pmX6Wb)
(https://i.ibb.co/MRDff3d/Russell-page-92-enlarged.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cNcww7q)
(https://i.ibb.co/6BjBvXw/Russell-page-86.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RyRyhjb)
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I am fooling around with making parts and pieces at the moment for an English project but going to start a small bore Hawken squirrel soon.
Mark Brier
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By way of proof-testing a tutorial I wrote for Carney on how to post photos, I'll post one more. Then I'll soon post the tutorial.
(https://i.ibb.co/4ZNGnFQ/DSC04978.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jv42P8p)
(https://i.ibb.co/WBby4mg/DSC05042.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TPV8x9m)
This is a mule deer buck I killed with my .54 H&H barreled Kit Carson-inspired Hawken two years ago, rifle weighs 8 pounds. One shot, off-hand at about 90 yards. On my birthday today at age 87, I can still shoot this rifle.
(https://i.ibb.co/64JpBTh/Herb-H-H-Hawken-rifle-Deer.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NLnkSJh)
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Happy Birthday Herb.
Rob
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Happy Birthday Herb !! :)
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Happy Birthday Herb :)
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Happy Birthday - it is a pleasure to read your posts. Thanks.
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A little late but here's my left hand Hawken which is about a 52 caliber. It was custom made for someone else but it suits me fine having the lock on the correct side as well as the front trigger 15 inches from the middle of the butt plate.
(https://i.ibb.co/Vm9W9T7/20170601-180230.jpg)
The top one is Big Red, my cherry stocked semi-plains type rifle of mostly Lyman/Investarms parts; 54 caliber. The middle is my maple stocked
50 caliber Bown rifle reproduction and finally my walnut stocked, supposed to be .54 but it shoots a .520 round ball Hawken that nobody wanted so I got it cheap rifle.
[url=https://ibb.co/Y0XvChF](https://i.ibb.co/fD9mgHz/20170601-180000.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GTpvpRK)
image hosting sites (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/tCfkBrs/20170601-175508-kindlephoto-255120813.jpg) (https://ibb.co/x5vPhTj)
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A Hawken rifle I built several years ago. 54 caliber Bill Large barrel, Ron Long lock.
(https://i.ibb.co/3Md6ygm/54-Hawken001-zps35de6434.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/hD9Z39X/54-Hawken010-zps42da4061.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/JtLzD2B/54-Hawken002-zpsd0673c58-1.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/QY0sYH6/54-Hawken016-zps2599c237.jpg)
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Happy Birthday, Herb!!
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Nice looking rifles, guys. Thanks for posting.
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Happy Birthday Herb, hope you enjoy your day......thanks for all you do for the sport.
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Happy birthday Herb.Just how many active octagenarians are still active on this forum?
Not just in making complete guns but in any capacity at all.I will hit 84 on March 27.
Bob Roller
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Hope it was a great day, Herb. Happy birthday. 87 & still shooting! well done.
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Happy 87th Herb, it seems like yesterday that we used to shoot out at the old Cooperstown range. :)
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By way of proof-testing a tutorial I wrote for Carney on how to post photos, I'll post one more. Then I'll soon post the tutorial.
(https://i.ibb.co/4ZNGnFQ/DSC04978.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jv42P8p)
(https://i.ibb.co/WBby4mg/DSC05042.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TPV8x9m)
This is a mule deer buck I killed with my .54 H&H barreled Kit Carson-inspired Hawken two years ago, rifle weighs 8 pounds. One shot, off-hand at about 90 yards. On my birthday today at age 87, I can still shoot this rifle.
(https://i.ibb.co/64JpBTh/Herb-H-H-Hawken-rifle-Deer.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NLnkSJh)
Happy birthday, Herb and thanks for your contributions to ALR.
Regarding the picture of the south end of the buck. Is there another buck directly in front of him? It looks like a bit of antler on the left side of the bucks head.
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Yes, that is a second buck.
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Robin, that is a nice rifle. Your wood furniture is beautiful. Did you make it?
Thank you Herb. I did built it from a blank and parts. I don't remember many particulars because its been a while. I do remember the lock was purchased at Don Davis' Trading Post in Friendship....Believe it was a Peter Allen Ashmore. The triggers I'm sure were Cherry Corners. Originally it had a 1" .50 caliber barrel which I later changed out to a .54 to help out a little on the weight. The barrels, I can only guess the brand. The .50 may have been a Douglas while the .54 was, I think, a Green River. I need to get it out and shoot it as its probably been twenty years.
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[(https://i.ibb.co/zNtKfFN/20180422-134805.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BwY8sGw)]fullstock I built,not as orange as the pics look,mid-day sun
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[[(https://i.ibb.co/LZsRFbp/20180422-135021.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BCY3pds)]]
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[[[(https://i.ibb.co/qnbPwPW/20180422-141352.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RSLVWVB)]]] Was my first build
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Hi Joe,
Thats a beautiful rifle what is the caliber? It looks like the barrel is finished bright? I see that there is some color cased hardened finish what was the rest of the finish?
Rob
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It's a 58 cal.(green mountain)I did leave the barrel finish bright and letting it age naturally. I may at some point do a rust blue.All the hardware was color case hardened by the folks at Wyoming Armory. I did try a test piece or two at home here in the coal stove but didn't get the results I wanted,a little over my pay grade.The wood was whiskered with water and tannins and then used Jim Kiblers iron nitrate and then Chambers oil finish.That wood finish looks better than the pics show,should have taken the pics on an overcast day......IMHO
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Some goergeous Hawkens gun’s in this thread. I have one being made for me by a well-known Hawken builder. It will be a long wait but hopefully it’ll be’n a purty ‘un!
I am glad to see some caplocks represented on the forum. I’ve found over the years that a fairly decently sized section of our hobby sticks there noses up at the caplocks and considers them unpure or otherwise inferior to the earlier flintlocks. This saddens me. I think the caplock guns are every bit as valid, and fun to shoot, as the rock chooglers.
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The one I am putting parts together for will be a full stock flint in .50. I have been considering what finish I will do. I recently have been thinking of leaving much of the metal finish bright and age it. I forgot about Wyoming Armory doing color casing I might check them out if I go that route.
Rob
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The folks at Wyoming Armory did a great job,great turn around time and at a real great price too.One of my worrys was warpage as a couple scrap pieces I was trying to do myself did warp some.Their job was spot on perfect and a super hard durable finish. I will say this about leaving parts bright, lotta maintenance as even keeping the barrel oiled when hunting in real wet weather the barrel can a does get some surface rust in spots.The case hardened parts never are affected.
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I have had a number of muskets and rifles over the years with bright finishes albeit aged from time. The ones I liked to shoot were in good condition and some were in great condition and spot rust was a concern.
Rob
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I have had a number of muskets and rifles over the years with bright finishes albeit aged from time. The ones I liked to shoot were in good condition and some were in great condition and spot rust was a concern.
Rob
The 58 caliber target rifle I built in 1958 had the barrel left in the white
and the lock also.It took from 1958 until 1962 to "age"out but it looked
good and contrasted the silver trigger guard and butt plate.
Bob Roller
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Bob,
Did you like the finish after 4 years?
Rob
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This rifle is not a bench copy. Just details from several rifles....LP
(https://i.ibb.co/3CzV4ZX/a.jpg) (https://ibb.co/crLRkn5)
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Nice Louis.
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Nice Louie,
Rob
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Belated "Manny Happy Returns"! Herb and a nice buck, a great Birthday present
Cheers
Gordon
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Great rifles all. Heres one I built a while back from a 1980s precarve of the hardest walnut on the planet. 54 GM barrel, L&R lock and trigs. Cold blue metal, .I have built 4 others since and sold all of them. I named this one Gene Hawken in honor of one of our late member/builders Gene Hyre, where the stock came from. Have a goodun fellows. Dave F 8) 8)
(https://i.ibb.co/3cvCW7P/genehawken13.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7KQ1VX0)
(https://i.ibb.co/QvbxMHW/genehawken12.jpg) (https://ibb.co/s9mXq1T)
(https://i.ibb.co/850pJ4y/genehawken15.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6Pmx2JK)
(https://i.ibb.co/QYs1xcz/genehawken11.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RQLVJSZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/Cs21WpS/genehawken10.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2YNn50p)
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Nice! So is that a tang sight on that rifle?
Rob
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Yes bdog, it is. I built this to shoot some long range ? so I left the barrel at 36". A friend of mine gave me the tang sight,and folding rear, I have only shot it about 10 rds at 50,and didn't need the tang. Heck,I can almost see the sights at that range.Gun does well, I just haven't been well enough to get to the range much,if at all. Thanks for the kind words. Best regards, Dave F 8) 8)
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My GRRW Hawken my dad got for me when i was 14 (1979). The tacks represent whitetail bucks and probably taken twice as many does. 50 cal
(https://i.ibb.co/DYkVF89/IMG-1376.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sCQm46K)
(https://i.ibb.co/XbKDcpz/IMG-1366.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0c6KHZf)
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So Matt, you still have that rifle? It looks like the first one I made back in the late 70's. Nice!
Rob
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Still have it and the Leman Dad ordered at the same time...My two boys love shooting them and youngest (20) got a deer with the Leman last year
(https://i.ibb.co/wQgd1w7/IMG-0523.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Smy6pdc)
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Great picture. Its always good to hear stories like yours my interest in ML and hunting was primed by my dad when I was very young too.
Rob
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Bob,
Did you like the finish after 4 years?
Rob
Yes,I did.Exposure to weather and shooting and other people handling it
AND time worked fine.
Bob Roller
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Great Plains Rifle purchased over the summer. Had to re work the dovetails for the sights, but its now a great shooter!
(https://i.ibb.co/Bntkrty/20190615-115852.jpg) (https://ibb.co/y4X2YX6)
(https://i.ibb.co/svT4K40/20190615-115845.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tM06q67)
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Still have it and the Leman Dad ordered at the same time...My two boys love shooting them and youngest (20) got a deer with the Leman last year
(https://i.ibb.co/wQgd1w7/IMG-0523.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Smy6pdc)
It makes my heart soar to see a youth shooting the traditional muzzle loaders. Great job!
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(https://i.ibb.co/h1jNXVt/Hawken.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rfShbH1)
Davy Boultinghouse build. 34" .54 Douglas XX barrel, Ron Long lock and triggers. Finished Sept 1978. Still shots great!
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This one went to someone at Petersen Publishing/Guns and Ammo. Like a lot of my guns of the time it was unsigned. Built everything but the TG, barrel keys and lock in shop. Rebuilt the lock too IIRC. Some time about 1990.
Pictures were taken by some pro at Petersen's Pub. Silver blade front sight vanished in the photo.
Dan
(https://i.ibb.co/pZ02DSV/Perc-hawken004.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xGChvN9)
(https://i.ibb.co/n0GTScR/Perc-hawken003.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xskyQj3)
(https://i.ibb.co/jf1F3q5/Perc-hawken-Rsight008.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4t5x4Cf)
(https://i.ibb.co/tmD4nK8/Perc-hawken-nose005.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YRh3JQp)
(https://i.ibb.co/0sKjbLy/Perc-hawken-lock007.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vXhxnW4)
(https://i.ibb.co/q5YxDgY/Perc-hawken-Cheek006.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ySFVNkF)
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This is from about 1978 or so. One the best shooters I ever had it had a 48" twist Douglas "Hawken" barrel and one of the early L&R "Ashmore" (IIRC) locks which they now call a late English. Last time I saw the rifle it had been restocked, poorly.
(https://i.ibb.co/ssGxKLb/1-2-stock-and-antelope.png) (https://ibb.co/L9Wjx4Y)
Dan
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Very nice guns everyone. A builder is currently making me one by the name of Brant Selb. Should be done in about a year or so. I ordered it totally in spec with most of the originals. I.e. dark stained plain maple stock, rust blued barrel, etc. As lovely as the fancy curly Hawkens of today are, I specifically wanted one to look just like it came out of Sam and Jake’s.
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Very nice guns everyone. A builder is currently making me one by the name of Brant Selb. Should be done in about a year or so. I ordered it totally in spec with most of the originals. I.e. dark stained plain maple stock, rust blued barrel, etc. As lovely as the fancy curly Hawkens of today are, I specifically wanted one to look just like it came out of Sam and Jake’s.
I also have Brant building me one. When did you order yours? Mines hopefully done soon.
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I got but just one a Lyman Great Plains Rifle .54 cal percussion, and I love it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/P5X4Mtrr/LGPR-54-cal.jpg)
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Hawken by Taylor Sapergia in .62 cal. It is a pleasure to handle and shoot. At my age of 67 years I was able to take my very first deer with it this year.
Wolfgang
(https://i.imgur.com/Jo9RcMu.jpg)
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photo of mine ; with a button buck in 2009....50 cal. Probably built it in early 1980's can't recall for sure.
(https://i.ibb.co/QJjK0Sd/DSC00793.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dfJ5ZCg)
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I am new to this forum. Enjoyed seeing all the Hawken rifles. Here is mine. Custom built by a good friend.
Rice barrel, 54 cal, 32 inches, tapered from one inch at the breach to 7/8's and the muzzle. Davis lock and triggers. It weighs 8 pounds.
(https://i.ibb.co/LC3m29M/Hawkensmall4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8jHqSPJ)
(https://i.ibb.co/tDFMZ9t/Hawkensmall2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DQTDGZy)
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PDS,
I really like the look of your rifle, nice!
Rob
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(https://i.ibb.co/482GTsr/9-B9-BC7-E2-BDA8-4497-A9-B2-2-BC7-B97727-FB.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bsFZBH9)
.58 caliber
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Here are two personal Hawken made several years ago. The flint has been my primary elk gun over the years.
(https://i.ibb.co/Gpj8D6S/Bus-cards-17.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MSLtHv0)
This one built for a customer who desired case hardened hardware.
(https://i.ibb.co/SvFgc7x/IMG-8143.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MNFHf5h)
(https://i.ibb.co/bH0wVfN/IMG-8155.jpg) (https://ibb.co/B4pWJ1T)
(https://i.ibb.co/3CSbPtJ/IMG-8156.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nLQyKhW)
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GRRW Leman Trade Rifle received as my wedding rifle in 1979. .50 cal. Kilt many a deer and hog with this rifle.
(https://i.postimg.cc/6qdvLTsz/IMG-4193.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Recently inherited J. Bergmann .54 cal rifle.
(https://i.postimg.cc/6qMwq0h9/965-DC904-78-D5-40-DB-988-F-9-F96-DD076-CD0.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jnnBky99)
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This is from about 1978 or so. One the best shooters I ever had it had a 48" twist Douglas "Hawken" barrel and one of the early L&R "Ashmore" (IIRC) locks which they now call a late English. Last time I saw the rifle it had been restocked, poorly.
(https://i.ibb.co/ssGxKLb/1-2-stock-and-antelope.png) (https://ibb.co/L9Wjx4Y)
Dan
It used a stock pattern from a 1830s J&S Hawken percussion in the Montana Historical Society collection.
One of our Guild members built a very nice FS fintlock Hawken based on the same rifle.
Dan
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Built by Ken Netting with all hardware, including lock, by Edson Meyers and .50 barrel by Bill Large.
(https://i.ibb.co/P9Jd8gs/1126201125-HDR.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5nCPVLX)
(https://i.ibb.co/4ty5YQC/1126201125b-HDR.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7Cc6R9B)
(https://i.ibb.co/xqdvFn1/1126201125a-HDR.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KxSZKt2)
(https://i.ibb.co/k2pQW7x/1126201126-HDR.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0ykhd7c)
(https://i.ibb.co/hVDKjr8/1126201131-HDR.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RczCmtH)
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(https://i.ibb.co/J7N6XtN/0-D28712-A-026-B-4-B1-B-879-F-94-ADC7-E5-A20-A.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LtMj4RM)
Mine is an ever so common Thompson Center 50 cal. It’s killed a lot of paper targets.
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Heres the 54 I built back in 2018 that now lives in Savanna ,Georgia. I also built a 50 cal near identical to this one at the same time. It is in Virginia.
Some fine lookin Hawken guns here,fellers. Best regards, Dave F 8) 8)
(https://i.ibb.co/x1ZsgHP/GE-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Mcdh16W)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZRsW3Wj/GE-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Cpdhqhc)
(https://i.ibb.co/h8Nd8vN/GE-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PCyWC8y)
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This one is named "Dirt" its a full stock flint.
(https://i.ibb.co/QNpJDXw/20201204-111603.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9TcpZG5)
(https://i.ibb.co/T2rybhn/20201204-111627.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F3np07f)
(https://i.ibb.co/NtzL3R3/20201204-111610.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2WBj6J6)
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Northup!
I likes the trap spring! 😉
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northup, there must be a story to go along with that rifle. I really like it. Some additional photos would be appreciated too.
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Same here . Theres has to be some stories, I can smell em thru the pc. :-* :-*
Thanks for sharing. Dave F 8) 8)
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Gun has lots of stories. Butt plate was burnt off so the Mountian man Roland Burns could fashion a crude knife in the field when his was lost in the snow whilst cleaning an elk. Was later repaired at his trappers hut with an old broken hand forged trap spring and some rawhide.
Ok thats completely fabricated like the Hawken, my father built it in the mid 70s. He spent a full year building one of the prettiest bucks county longrifles I've seen, and wouldn't bring it to shoots or rendezvous events for fear it may get a blemish or ding. He made "Dirt" in a few weeks so he wouldn't have to worry about a rack getting turned over or someone dropping or bumping it. Its rarely cleaned and has been used and abused like a real one.
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Well everyone is posting plains rifles...Here's a pretty plain rifle. She's 32 inches long a a real deer killer... Oldtravler
(https://i.ibb.co/3CHsJBJ/16119346147351838555482.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XCT4wSw)
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Short n sweet, and brings home da meat !!! What else ya need. Spiffy old timer bro. Thanks. Dave F 8) 8)
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Dave the little gun actually has quite the little story to it. It's 45 caliber with an 1 1/8 inch straight barrel. Don't know much about the lock. Long time ago when I was first starting out in Muzzeloader s. A old friend of mine, passed now. Gave it to me.
We were at a shoot at his place an I showed up with my T.C. Hawkings. He said what's that you carring. I told him an he said to shinny... Better have this one.
The tacky racks he put on a long time ago. Special meaning to him. Out to 60 yards she's a rack driver. Killed the 8 point I pictured last fall. Dave she's not pretty but she's a special gun to
me. May my friend Pappy Blakeslee who gave the gun to me R.I.P. Oldtravler
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(https://i.ibb.co/JQysPQX/E7-E46-DD6-D2-C5-4413-A3-E8-3608-A00-CDBA1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xHf7QHV)
(https://i.ibb.co/nMRM9rM/12-CB8895-1419-4131-8316-1-F166-D17-EF2-E.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jkHkmhk)
This is 50 cal that I finished a couple of years ago. A friend that had a muzzleloading shop had started it before passing away. This rifle saw a couple of moves and in the process got banged up pretty bad, so I tried my had at aging it, came out okay. Hopefully I’ll get this out to shoot some, come better weather.