AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: heelerau on January 27, 2020, 08:53:49 AM
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Gentlemen some time ago I replaced the Russ Hamm lock with an L&R drop in lock from TOW. Had a chap in the US tune it before it came down under. I shot it not so successfully in a competition yesterday and seemed to be getting just enough flash/gas blowing back into my upper face, in fact to a degree where I now shut my eyes when it goes off. Not a good habit. The touch hole is not in the centre of the pan, slightly forward of the pan centre line where it just starts to rise. I have not had this issue with my Lancaster .40 which has a ver nice Jim Chambers round faced lock. Any suggestions?
Kind regards
Gordon
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Gentlemen some time ago I replaced the Russ Hamm lock with an L&R drop in lock from TOW. Had a chap in the US tune it before it came down under. I shot it not so successfully in a competition yesterday and seemed to be getting just enough flash/gas blowing back into my upper face, in fact to a degree where I now shut my eyes when it goes off. Not a good habit. The touch hole is not in the centre of the pan, slightly forward of the pan centre line where it just starts to rise. I have not had this issue with my Lancaster .40 which has a ver nice Jim Chambers round faced lock. Any suggestions?
Kind regards
Gordon
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Gordon,
IF the touch hole in the barrel is close to the forward edge of the pan there MIGHT be a possibility
of a deflection of gas as well as flint/steel mini fragments.Make a card board shield and fasten it
to the grip area of the stock and then fire the gun and take a look and see what's there.Eyes are
way to valuable to gamble with.
Bob Roller
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.....and that's why you wear safety glasses. Glasses? More like safety "goggles". A simple $10 pair available from most hardware stores. We seem to need to replace ours every so often as the plastic of the lenses become spotted with small burns.
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Have someone video you with a newer phone camera that has slow motion. Maybe the vent hole is too large? Might need a white lightning vent kit, and leave the hole as small as possible.
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Would opening up the pan help? Enough so the vent will blow gas out side ways and not against the forward angle of the pan depression. :-\
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Come and visit , bring the rifle let Neill fix it. Problem solved
And bring Wendy
Carney
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Thanks Gentlemen, I was wearing safety glasses. I was as is suggested here, thinking of slightly re shaping the pan, but the filming will also get a run and see what happens. I don't get this problem with my Neil Fields flintlock.
Carney, that is a good idea ! I will try the cardboard shield first.
Cheers and thanks
Gordon
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My thinking is that being too far forward in the pan [ and perhaps a tad low ] the vent directs the blast along the forward pan edge, and end curvature , back to the shooter's face . Not all the blast, but enough to notice. If you have room to broaden the pan in that area, you might better centre the vent in the pan. If nothing else works, plug the vent, and drill a new one.
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My thinking is that being too far forward in the pan [ and perhaps a tad low ] the vent directs the blast along the forward pan edge, and end curvature , back to the shooter's face . Not all the blast, but enough to notice. If you have room to broaden the pan in that area, you might better centre the vent in the pan. If nothing else works, plug the vent, and drill a new one.
I'm in this camp. File and see maybe. Fill and drill shows the vent who is boss.
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It's possible that the frizzen is rebounding and the gases are being deflected off the bottom.
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The vent & pan are not aligned correctly or for safety. Opening the pan a bit is the only thing I can think of that might work.
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Gordon, oft times, there is a deflection backwards, of powder gasses off the bottom of the frizzen- IF the frizzen angles forward far enough, to present a flat or 90degree angle to the barrel of
the frizzen's base - if you get my drift.
Some locks are more prone to this, than others. It had nothing to do with vent position, simply the bottom the frizzen at 90 degrees to your eye-ball. For that reason alone, I have to and do wear glasses when shooting - I have to or I flinch horribly.
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Daryl, you could well be right, just before cleaning my rifle yesterday I snapped a few priming charges and still had a puff of gas brush my forelock (if I still had one!), so glasses it will have to be. I did put them on the other day about 2/3rds through the event to be truthful, but the flinch was established. Will now have to work on removing it.
cheers
Gordon
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Good luck with that, Gordon. It takes time, at least it surely did and does for me. I have to concentrate on 'seeing' the ball to the target,
each shot, (attempt that is) or I will flinch - even with the .36. It's not the recoil, obviously, but the puff of air pressure. Of all things
this doesn't happen with the smoothbore WHEN SHOOTING SHOT, but does with shooting round ball - go figure.
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Gordon
I had Neill convert a percussion i/2 stock to flintlock. He had to offset the touch hole away from the front of the pan. This probably stopped the "back blast".
Maybe build a liner and see where you would place the touch hole to get it more towards the center of the pan.
Carney
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In my experience, the frizzens on a lot of modern muzzleloaders don’t rotate as far forward upon firing as do many antique guns. It is my belief that this short rotation is responsibly not only for spring back that often breaks flints, but also sometimes directs the powder flash over the fence, and into the face of the shooter.
Hungry Horse
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In my experience, the frizzens on a lot of modern muzzleloaders don’t rotate as far forward upon firing as do many antique guns. It is my belief that this short rotation is responsibly not only for spring back that often breaks flints, but also sometimes directs the powder flash over the fence, and into the face of the shooter.
Hungry Horse
Not that I have a problem, but this caused me to look at the closest lock at hand, and what it'd take to move it. The cover winds up nearly parallel to the fence, and it wouldn't take much metalwork to tweak the tail and change that open position. It all adds up.
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In my experience, the frizzens on a lot of modern muzzleloaders don’t rotate as far forward upon firing as do many antique guns. It is my belief that this short rotation is responsibly not only for spring back that often breaks flints, but also sometimes directs the powder flash over the fence, and into the face of the shooter.
Hungry Horse
That's got me checking mine too.... Thanks for the observation.
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One thing I noticed with a life time of shooting flint, is when I wear any sort of hat with a bill or brim is my forehead gets peppered or tickled. With out the hat or if the ball cap is reversed the issue goes away. The hat brim or bill redirects the flash toward my forehead some what. So I either lose or turn my hat before firing at the range. Perhaps not your issue but one I’ve needed to address myself. BJH
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Can you say tri-corn?
Hungry Horse
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I am checking all my other flintlock frizzed positions as well. When I snapped a few priming only shots, I was not wearing a hat and still got the puff of gas in the forelock.
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Yes - the puff on the forehead is usually from the flat of the bottom of the frizzen when it's it open and at 90 degrees (or close to that) to your head.
Note in the video of Mike Bellevieve shooting the 1766 French musket. That one shows very well, the forward frizzen. Most guns are some where between
that and 45 degrees when open. The closer they are to that French musket, the more reflected gas you get. This really has nothing to do with the location of
the vent, although possibly the higher the vent in relation to the height of the fence, the more likely it is to happen. The fence is supposed to prevent this back
blast, but sometimes does not - the geometry of the lock in fired position is most likely the cause.
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I ground of some of the frizzens' toe and that seems to have pretty much stopped the puff of gas back in my face, just allowed the frizzen to go for'ard a little more.
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Did TOW send the right lock?
I'm probably mistaken, but I thought the flash pan was supposed to be centered on the vent.
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TOW sent the right lock, touch hole is just a little to the front edge of the pan, but not by much. Ideally it would have been central, I could open the pan a little .
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Did TOW send the right lock?
I'm probably mistaken, but I thought the flash pan was supposed to be centered on the vent.
Sometimes, IT happens.