AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: OldMtnMan on January 30, 2020, 01:53:42 AM
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Well, the inline didn't last long. You guys are a bad influence. Naw! Just kidding.
I was offered a gun by a member here. It appears to be an old Sharon Hawken kit gun. Well worn and well used but it's just the way I like guns. 14 1/8" LOP and 30" barrel. .54 cal. Just perfect for me. A short barrel for my back and a longer LOP for my long arms.
I thought about how I could use this gun and went to see my Lakota friend. He only hunts for elk. He said he'd get the meat out for me. I'll still help with what I can. He uses a longbow and arrows he makes himself. The archery and muzzleloader seasons run together, so we can hunt together. An elk has a much bigger kill zone for me to see. The open sights will work if I can get close enough. I never call but I will if it's the only way to get close enough. I'll make it work.
This seems so right to me. An old mountain man and an old Indian hunting together with primitive weapons. Just like we might have back in the early 1800s. I like it.
Here's the gun.
(https://i.ibb.co/pzBQYPw/IMG-3549.jpg) (https://ibb.co/58gkb94)
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Sounds like a winning combination to me go for it.
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Bravo!
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I feel so much better now. I had it wrong though. The gun is actually a Trade Rifle and not a Hawken. Lighter and shorter but the same good Sharon barrel. I believe more mountain men used this gun over the more expensive Hawken. I'm happy with it.
Here's some good info on Sharon. Scroll down and you can see a 1978 ad in Muzzleloader mag for the Trade rifle.
http://grrw.org/sharon-rifle-barrel-co/
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Glad we managed to steal you back Pete. Good looking rifle.
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I visited Hal Sharon in his Kalispel shop in the spring of 1975. At that time, they were experimenting with deep button rifling, which didn't work out.
Thankfully they went back to cutting the rifling with Prat and Whitney machines, I think.
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I visited Hal Sharon in his Kalispel shop in the spring of 1975. At that time, they were experimenting with deep button rifling, which didn't work out.
Thankfully they went back to cutting the rifling with Prat and Whitney machines, I think.
I agree. Glad he went back.
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Pete, Don't short the idea of calling wild animals. To be consistently successful takes a lot of practice over a number of years. You also must lose many times to win just a few. Using my own voice I can call in both bucks and does the majority of the time. And I can stop both in their tracks if they are close enough.
I used to be a "run and gun" turkey hunter. I hunted the gobbler and most of the time that didn't work out. Age and physical problems have made me change how I hunt, now I hide and call and let a lonely gobbler hunt me. I can't call with my voice so I use a few old calls. Hunting turkeys with a .40 caliber flintlock means I got to get them close.
I see elk hunting the same way, I would need to get one close to get a clean kill. And that means a couple of cow calls and maybe a bugle.
I'm glad you got a flintlock to hunt with, and having a friend to get an elk out for you is priceless.
I'm glad things are going your way again. Good shooting and good luck.
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Yes, calling will be a tool i'll use from now on. I have tried it with bears with some success. I think i'll hunt for bears too. My Lakota friend's name is Tall Soldier. He's named after his grandfather who fought in the Little Bighorn battle. He uses the bear hide to make drums. He's really big for an Indian. 6'4" about 250lbs. Strong as a bull. I can't even pull the bow he made. He pulls it like nothing.
I remember one time we got stopped by a warden and he asked Soldier what the poundage of the bow is. Since Soldier made it, it didn't have any writing on it. Colorado law is a minimum 35# for a bow. Soldier handed him the bow and said..... pull it back. The warden grabbed it and pulled until he was red faced but only got it back halfway. He said.....Ok guys. Have a good hunt and left. :)
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Good story!
Pleased it's all worked out well for you both.
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Pete, it sounds like he will be a good partner to have around after you get the elk down. I figure if I am ever able to hunt again, it will be in my SxS so I can winch it up and haul it home. That's not going to happen. Good luck and enjoy it.
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Pete, it sounds like he will be a good partner to have around after you get the elk down. I figure if I am ever able to hunt again, it will be in my SxS so I can winch it up and haul it home. That's not going to happen. Good luck and enjoy it.
Thanks, buddy. For everybody's info. I got the gun from General and he gave me a good price. A good man to do business with.
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I don't think you could possibly do better choosing a companion to hunt with. That goes for the rifle, too.
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I have to agree. Other than my dad and brother who have both passed away i've only hunted with Soldier. One thing i've found out being a friend to an Indian. They're very honorable and trustworthy. If Soldier tells me he'll do something I can count on it. He'll always back me up too. A good guy.
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Well, this gun didn't work out for me. I was hoping the shorter 30" barrel would be kinder to my back. It's not. I would definitely crack my spine if I used it. I'm disappointed and i'm afraid an inline is my only choice now. :(
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I'm not sure how using the gun indicated would " crack your spine" ? Are you referring to carrying it or shooting it ?
If you want a super handy and easy to carry traditional rifle, I would go with a Jaeger style with sling. Shorter barrel, large caliber, easy to handle and shoot. The stock design handles recoil well.
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I have advanced Osteoporosis Bob. My bones are brittle. My last gun was a GPR with a 32" barrel. I cracked my spine shouldering it. I was hoping the shorter 30" barrel would work but I can tell by shouldering it that it won't.
The inline has a 24" round thin barrel and my back can handle it. Longer hexagon barrels are out for me.
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Oh $#*!! It might not be my brightest decisions but i'm going to keep the Hawken and sell the inline. I'll work with it every day and try to build up my back muscles. Maybe that will take the strain off my spine. If I have to I can shoot from my knee or from the side of a tree. My favorite position is offhand and I might have to give it up. We'll see how it goes. Just keep my hunt to deer.
Anything is better than an inline.
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Or shorten the barrel. I like Bobs idea the best, 62 cal with a 28" barrel.
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My shoulder has bones too. ;)
I'll make what I have work. If I stick to just deer. I'm thinking just 70gr of Goex 2F should work with a .54. That should be pleasant to shoot without busting me up.
Keep in mind my favorite era is the fur trade era. A Hawken is always my choice.
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Oldmtmman like you I have a degenerative spine disease. It does make life interesting year to year. I have a very short 50 cal 38 inch barrel. I work with weights to strengthen my arms an I shoot it off the shoulder it works for me. Never killed an elk with it. But a slew of deer. Might be something to consider. Wish you the best.. Oldtravler
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If your favourite time in history is the fur trade era, one option would be to shorten your distances when hunting [ Most of my shots are taken inside of 35 yards ] and simply go with a smoothbore trade gun. They are easy on the shoulder re recoil, light to carry and handle, and certainly will drop deer or whatever else you want to hunt. Just as correct historically as your Hawken :)
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Pete, 70 to 75 grains of 3fg in a .54 is all you need for deer. I've lowered my charge to 75 grains 3f, low to no felt recoil. And I killed a doe this past season at 75 yards and the ball went all the way through. Any more powder would have been wasted.
I've killed a few elk with CF's and I think within 75 yards, a broadside heart shot is well within the power range of 75 grains 3fg.
Too bad that new Hawken doesn't have a swamped barrel. That might change your opinion right off.
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A swamped barrel would be a joy. I'll make it work. Other than the barrel heavy feel of it I like it. It's not a deal-breaker.
I hope it shoots as good as I think it will.
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Years ago my friend Jake started having vision trouble in his right eye. He went to the opthalmologist and they found out his retina was partially detached.
Doc told my buddy that he had to give up shooting or else one too many jolts from recoil would fully detach the retina and he would lose vision completely.
Now my buddy Jake loves hunting. Deer hunting is what he lives for. He thought about what the doc said for a minute and asked if giving up shooting would guarantee that he wouldn't go blind in that eye. The doc said of course not, there was still a chance the retina would detach anyway whether he shot guns or not.
That was an easy decision for Jake. He still shoots and lives his life how he wants. And last I talked to him he still has use of his eye.
Your situation is different Pete. But like my buddy you are faced with a risk... You can give up what you love and probably still face complications. Or you can try to live your life as long as you can.
Only you can make that decision and make whatever concessions you need to get by.
Whatever you decide to do, you have my support and I wish you all the best.
Mike
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Mike...........I'd think about giving up if I thought I was hurting my good eye. My right eye went blind for glaucoma. My left eye is fine except for a slight cataract. The danger is operating to remove the cataract. Nobody will do it, so there's no danger. I just have to live with the vision. I'm ok. I just need to get even closer than I used to do. More challenge is more fun.
Thanks for your post buddy.
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I suspect there were plenty of times when a muzzle on a Hawken type rifle was damaged and required being cut off in order to keep the gun shooting back in the period. Why not shorten your .54 and make it work for you? I shoot a 1” octagon .54 cal percussion 26” barrel and find it most comfortable for hunting. Its an old TC Renegade barrel I used on a self build “poor boy” plains rifle. That .530 ball still hits with all the authority required to take anything in N. America!
Walk
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I wouldn't do that. The gun has some history and I wouldn't ruin it because I can't handle it the way it is. I didn't buy this gun. I went to a lighter gun.
Which is the reason for my lack of posts now and in the future.
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Glad to hear you will still be hunting. Makes no nevermind to me what gun design you’ve chosen. The joy and pleasure is within the hunt itself, the experience within the soul, the feel of a cool morning or the warm sunshine on ones face, that distinct smell which comes with the season, and the laughter only true friends can share.
Whatever it takes, keep on getting out there!
Walk
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Glad to hear you will still be hunting. Makes no nevermind to me what gun design you’ve chosen. The joy and pleasure is within the hunt itself, the experience within the soul, the feel of a cool morning or the warm sunshine on ones face, that distinct smell which comes with the season, and the laughter only true friends can share.
Whatever it takes, keep on getting out there!
Walk
Amen. And seeing nature wake up like life rarely lets us anymore.
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As we all age, we have to make adjustments to carry on. Myself, I can't even get out and hike the hills anymore. Too many scars on my back but I still enjoy shooting. You can creep through the woods with whatever works for you while I will shoot targets. Keep on trucking my friend, no matter what. :)
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I did decide to make some changes to just make me feel better.
So, i'm back to using the modern muzzleloader. It has a blued barrel. It came with a black plastic stock. I'm replacing it with a Boyds walnut stock. Scope is off and peep sight is on. No modern powder or bullets. I'll be using Goex 2F and a heavy all lead conical. I'll use the breech plug that uses a muskat cap instead of the present 209 primer.
That's as close as I can get to being traditional. Of course i'll use my normal old school still hunting method with no gadgets to help the hunt. Just my gun and boots. I'll probably stick to hunting for black bear. Since the season is from Sept 2-30 instead of the normal 9 day hunts for deer and elk. There's nothing more fun than hunting the rocky mountains in Sept. ;D
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I'll be using these. They should give a bear a good poke.
https://www.muzzleloading-bullets.com/product/50-caliber-420-grains/
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No worries sir, that’ll do it for sure!!
For the record, a good clean black bear (berry and/or clover fed, not baited, salmon or garbage) is some of the most delicious meat you will eat. As well the fat rendered makes pastries to die for. Black bear is a great hunt!
Walk
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I'll be using these. They should give a bear a good poke.
https://www.muzzleloading-bullets.com/product/50-caliber-420-grains/
With a fast twist barrel, I can understand the requirement for elongated projectiles.
I also would choose the 420gr. - or even 350gr. if they made it, although appears not.