AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: J.A. Wilder on February 11, 2020, 08:42:14 PM
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Does anyone have any information of the rifle used by Daniel Morgan. I do know he purchased a rifle from Fielding Lewis prior to taking his riflemen to Boston in 1775. I've seen pictures of the musket produced by Lewis's Fredericksburg Gun Manufacturing, but can find nothing on his rifles.
I would like to know the specifics of Morgan's rifle and if anyone knows of its whereabouts now, or any pictures.
Any information would be much appreciated.
Thank you for your time.
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Hi,
I am not sure the Fredericksburg gun factory produced a single gun in 1775. In a letter to Washington dated March 6, 1776, Lewis writes that they have not yet produced one musket. What sources do you have indicating Morgan carried a rifle he bought from Lewis in 1775?
dave
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On page 23 of Daniel Morgan Revolutionary Rifleman by Don Higginbotham, he states " Morgan too wore Indian clothing and carried a new rifle which he purchased from Fielding Lewis". It notes this as occurring just prior to 15 July 1775 when he marched his company o Boston. I know in 1775 Congress asked Lewis and fellow merchant Charles Dicks to establish a weapons factory, which became the Fredericksburg Gun Manufactory, producing about 20 muskets per week, according to historical sources I've found during research.
But, nothing I've found mentions any rifles produced by Lewis or his factory. So I'm trying to see if there is any other source I've not found that mentions Morgan's rifle. I know he knew Lewis and there was a connection.
Maybe he just bought a new rifle from Lewis that he had purchased somewhere else. Lewis was a merchant managing his fathers store in the 1740's.
I don't know, but sure would like to! Especially about the rifle Morgan used. One would expect as renowned as Morgan was there would be something recorded somewhere on the rifles he used.
Thanks for your response, much appreciated.
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I’ve read a lot for close to 50 years in this hobby and never heard details on Daniel Morgan’s rifle. Normally the rifles of famous people get plenty of attention and are written about. So you may be on a tough quest.
Let’s say it’s fact that he bought a rifle from this fella who was a merchant but was going to set up a gun manufactory in the near future. What more do we know about Fielding Lewis and his “merchant” business? Storekeeper? Trader? Importer? One fella can sell a new gun to another fella without having made that gun.
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I am guessing Fielding Lewis is probably a dead end in this discussion, particularly if he was primarily a merchant and businessman. The real question which I think underlies this discussion is...what kind of rifle did Daniel Morgan carry, regardless of who may or may not have made it. Short of an obscure description of the rifle in some old record [which is unlikely] or some long lost relative appearing that actually has the rifle WITH a family provenance, that question will probably remain unanswered. Shelby Gallien
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Hi JA,
Thanks for mentioning Higginbotham's book. It's been years since I read it and it is the first good biography of Morgan. Nonetheless, Higginbotham passed on and perpetuated some poorly documented stories about Morgan. One was Timothy Murphy's participation in the Saratoga campaign and the famous story about him shooting General Fraser. The sources for that story go back to second-hand and third hand accounts written in the 1840s with no first hand primary sources. In fact, there is no actual evidence that Murphy was at Saratoga even from his own family members. Anyway, I bring this up because even good historians trying to tell a entertaining story pass on suspicious information. Members of Morgan's Rifle Corps in the Brigade of the American Revolution (my brother's unit) often discussed any rifle Morgan might have carried. He may have purchased some rifles in Reading, PA but there was some speculation that he had an Adam Haymaker rifle from Winchester, VA near his home. Unfortunately, I cannot find the documentation for any of that. Perhaps someone else can chime in.
dave
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Thanks for the info Smart Dog. It seems everywhere you read on Gen. Fraser's death they say it was Murphy's shot that did it. But I also read the controversy over the shot and what rifle he made it with. Interesting.
I wonder if Murphy has any family members still living? One would think there would be some family history somewhere.
I sure do appreciate the responses.
There is a lot about Fielding Lewis, but not a lot on his relationship with Murphy. Lewis was a Militia Colonel and General Washington's brother-in-law, married to Washington's sister. Lewis died in 1781 from consumption, a year after he left the gun manufactory, leaving the operation to his partner Major Charles Dick. Neither Lewis or Dick saw the battlefield during the war.
Lewis son Fielding Lewis Jr. served with Gen. Morgan, so no doubt the senior knew Morgan.
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The swivel breech rifle which belonged to Tim Murphy is at the Old Stone Fort in Schoharie NY and is clearly post 1800. It was probably his last gun and looks nothing like guns that existed during the Revolutionary War, whether or not Murphy did any extraordinary and impactful shooting. Of course most local folks and the museum love having “that most famous rifle.”
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Hi Rich,
Yeah Murphy's rifle at the Old Stone Fort was never flint. It has no location in the forward part for pans. It was always built as percussion and someone faked a flint cock with a percussion conversion. The patch box is right out of the 19th century. Murphy died in 1818 so he may have never owned the gun and it certainly is not from the Rev War. I think this is a case of a museum getting defrauded but paying too much and wanting too much to admit the error. Here is a link to a photo of the gun:
http://timesjournalonline.com/details.asp?id=66578
dave
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You guys are probably already familiar with the account of Second Freeman's Farm by Ebenezer Mattoon. He was a young artillery officer who claims to have witnessed the shooting of Fraser. A very interesting story.
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Smart Dog is correct about the “Murphy” rifle at the Old Stone Fort. I examined it in detail in 2015. It was on loan from a local man whose father obtained the gun years ago with the questionable provenance. Both the owner and curator asked for my opinion, which I gave as gently as I could along the lines of Smart Dog’s reasoning. I am convinced the gun was made well after Murphy died. They both said they were suspicious of the “Murphy” story, and had heard strong doubts expressed by others, but I don’t know if it is still labeled as to the Murphy connection or not.
Bill Paton
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Does anyone have any information of the rifle used by Daniel Morgan. I do know he purchased a rifle from Fielding Lewis prior to taking his riflemen to Boston in 1775. I've seen pictures of the musket produced by Lewis's Fredericksburg Gun Manufacturing, but can find nothing on his rifles.
I would like to know the specifics of Morgan's rifle and if anyone knows of its whereabouts now, or any pictures.
Any information would be much appreciated.
Thank you for your time.
Well it was surely a Virginia rifle, but maybe not. And it likely was no more then 50 caliber but might have been larger. If I were going to bet money on it I would look to something like the "Haymaker Rifle" which is the right time frame and from the right place.
AND since he was captured at Quebec its not likely he had the same rifle in 1777 as he did in 1775. Its possible he might have been given back his rifle when paroled but I doubt it. its possible the first rifle he used in the War was either destroyed or is in some manor house or museum in England.
Dan
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If Morgan bought a new rifle in 1775, he most certainly lost it when he was captured at Quebec at the end of that year. A number of these captured rifles were sent back to England as souvenirs and it is quite possible Morgan's rifle was among them.
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In "Gunsmiths of Virginia" James Biser Whisker it says, "Simon Lauck Sr. (1760-1815). gunsmith. Winchester, Virginia. On 14 July, 1775, Simon Lauck and his brother Peter marched with Daniel Morgan's Virginia Riflemen to the relief of Boston. They then joined the ill-fated expedition against Quebec."
If this information is correct I would lean toward a Lauck rifle being in the hands of Morgan. Haymaker would be my second choice.
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If my arithmetic is right Simon would have been 15 years old. Ok he could have joined Morgan. But unlikely he made any guns in his own at 15 years of age.
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Your right Rich, I wasn't thinking about his age when I saw that he marched with Morgan. My first thought was they had a gunsmith with them on their travels. However there were a number of apprentices that started at a very early age. Ten years old wasn't uncommon to start an apprenticeship. Not sure when Simon started his but I'll be looking into it.
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About all we can do is speculate what rifles Daniel Morgan and his men carried. There are a number of plausible options but nailing down what any individual man carried is quite unlikely. Probably a mix of Virginia, Maryland, and Pennsylvania Rifles were carried with some imports thrown in for good measure.
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Items from the original 1775 rifleman companies are exceedingly rare. I have an inscribed power horn from Adamson Tannehill, a Maryland soldier from one of these units. It is a common soldier's horn that is dated 1775 and has a wooden patchbox rifle inscribed on it. I believe it may be the only identified item from one those companies, but there could be other identified items out there.
Al
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Al, Please post a photo of your horn, it sounds very interesting!
Bruce
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Here are some pictures of the horn. Got Jim Dresslar to write a letter on it. Just a common soldier's horn but important.
Al
(https://i.ibb.co/3SYSmqL/DSCF3410.jpg) (https://ibb.co/44g4RG5)
(https://i.ibb.co/VMSjFhG/DSCF3411.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7rWY3TD)
(https://i.ibb.co/hdzWhVG/DSCF3412.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7pmW8K3)
(https://i.ibb.co/16X3CX1/DSCF3413.jpg) (https://ibb.co/L5gMTgm)
(https://i.ibb.co/bRFYXjb/DSCF3414.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6J8GFcX)
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It's also interesting to see a horn which is attached to a bag also depicted.....
Cool horn.
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This horn belonged to Adamson Tannehill who was an officer in one of the Maryland rifle companies authorized by Congress in 1775. He fought nearly the entire war in some of the most iconic battles. He later became a Congressman and was a General in the War of 1812. I have nearly all of his records and can follow him from Maryland in 1775 throughout the entire war. The records are complete that we can see where he was nearly every day of the war!
A simple horn but it has a ton of resume to go with it.
Al
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It's also interesting to see a horn which is attached to a bag also depicted.....
Cool horn.
This may be the earliest reference to a bag/horn set that we know of.
Al
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It's also interesting to see a horn which is attached to a bag also depicted.....
Cool horn.
This may be the earliest reference to a bag/horn set that we know of.
Al
1761 Oconostota Commission image is likely the earliest depiction of a horn/bag combo. https://catalog.archives.gov/id/6924937/4/public?contributionType=tag (https://catalog.archives.gov/id/6924937/4/public?contributionType=tag)
(https://i.ibb.co/44k8FgN/cherokee.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
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Thank you for that image. I showed my powder horn to an "Expert" and his comment was that the horn/bag set didn't become popular until after the Rev War so my horn must be a later commemorative horn. I just didn't realize the horn/bag set went that far back.
Al
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Thank you for that image. I showed my powder horn to an "Expert" and his comment was that the horn/bag set didn't become popular until after the Rev War so my horn must be a later commemorative horn. I just didn't realize the horn/bag set went that far back.
Al
Al,
A few years back I would have been of the same opinion as your expert. There are a couple other scattered references (1777 Georgia troops doing that in Elberts OB and the 1807 Brant image ) but the practice seems to have been generally much more popular later than the Revolutionary War.
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My comment on "experts" was more to the fact that they usually say something negative when they don't know something. What my "expert" could have said was that he hadn't been made aware of any bag/horn sets that were Rev War or earlier. Instead he declared my horn a commemorative horn. He just didn't know but as an "expert" he had to say something, so he said something negative. This problem with "experts" is seen on this site a lot. That's why I really liked your image of the bag/horn set.
Also, the ten companies that Congress authorized were all riflemen and a bag/horn set would not be out of the question.
Al
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A deposition taken in March 1766 describes a gun and horn/bag set. This can be found in the Archives of Maryland, volume 32, page 129:
(https://i.ibb.co/RpQwSQD/Screen-Shot-2020-02-22-at-12-41-00-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/5WsH9sR)
Complete volume:
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=umn.31951d02897643w&view=1up&seq=152
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And this reference even earlier, from the New York Gazette, Sept. 10., 1753:
(https://i.ibb.co/hf2FKLj/Screen-Shot-2020-02-22-at-5-29-50-PM.png) (https://ibb.co/PQ1G5Fn)
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Those two citations are interesting, but given the free wheeling nature of 18th century punctuation they may just be lacking commas and not specifically denoting attached bags and horns.
This one certainly nails the attached mode.
Collections of the Georgia Historical Society, Volume 5
2d Georgia Battalion Elbert's Orderly book
Regimental Orders, 2nd Battalion
12th July, 1777.
"...The regiment to parade precisely at four o'clock this afternoon, each man with as much loose powder in his Horns as will make Nine rounds, with black moss [aka Spanish Moss] for wadding;
the Colo. can have no doubt but that every man in the Regiment has a powder Horn slung to his pouch after so many repeated orders for the Purpose, as the Companies are all informed they are in future when every under arms to appear in them..."
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My comment on "experts" was more to the fact that they usually say something negative when they don't know something. What my "expert" could have said was that he hadn't been made aware of any bag/horn sets that were Rev War or earlier. Instead he declared my horn a commemorative horn. He just didn't know but as an "expert" he had to say something, so he said something negative. This problem with "experts" is seen on this site a lot. That's why I really liked your image of the bag/horn set.
Also, the ten companies that Congress authorized were all riflemen and a bag/horn set would not be out of the question.
Al
Hello
I've been trying to reach you.
Would you be willing to post some images of the documents you have?
Adamson Tannehill is a very important figure & some of what you have may not have been put online yet.
Thanks