AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: canadianml1 on May 24, 2020, 01:10:04 AM
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I plan to use my 40 cal SMR for hunting coyotes in the winter ( 10 deg F) and groundhogs in the summer ( 85 deg F ). I will rely solely on the hickory ram rod with the gun. As a result of inquiring on this forum I have learned a lot but I still don't understand how to proceed with regard to lube selection. Ball diameter and patch material combinations I got. The videos that I have seen on youtube of PB loading indicate that it is no simple matter to push a patched ball down a long barrel with a hickory ram rod when the ball and patch are "relatively tight". I recognize that I can opt for a 'loose' combo but would rather not sacrifice too much accuracy.
Because hunting involves long periods (hours) between shots , as I understand it liquid lube is out because it will migrate to the charge. So while moose milk (with water or ant-freeze) seems ideal for the range it may not do for the two aforementioned hunting situations(??). This leaves mink oil, neatsfoot oil alone or in combination with beeswax, soaps and etc, etc........................
With all the alchemy that seems to be involved with the various lube variations I really am not sure how I should proceed..........loose/tight and with what lube???
Maybe I am just making it more complicated than it is because I lack experience?
Please save me from myself!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I use TOW mink oil. And hunt in 90degree weather with no issues.The coldest I have hunted with it is the low teens.Same thing no problem. Have had it loaded for up to a week with no problems.It works well for me.
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Chad is correct. TOW's mink oil lube is excellent for both summer and winter. I prepare pre-cut patches with the lube by rubbing the oil into the patches one at a time and placing them in an appropriate container for storage. For hunting, I load six balls with patches in my loading block for quick re-loading. I use a starter and the gun's hickory rod without any fear of breaking either. I load very tight combinations, ie: .005" undersized balls of pure lead, .018 - .022" denim patches SOAKED with lube (as much lube as the patch will carry) When I have the balls loaded in the block, I smear more lube into the bottom of the ball cavity to fill it. I am not the least bit concerned about lube migration into the powder. This system loads like snot on a wet board.
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Thanks for sharing your experience. Very clear and very helpful. So my starting point will be mink oil .395 ball and 0.018 pillow ticking (already have it). Done!
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I am another supporter for Track's Mink Oil for hunting. I do use a water based lube for most target shooting. Mink oil gets the nod for hunting. Be aware that an accuracy load for a water based lube will likely be different that your accuracy/hunting load for a greased or oiled patch. This is due to the difference in ballistics due to the lubricity of the oil or grease and water based lube.
One caviate here, is to never use beeswax in a cold weather patch lube.
My accuracy load with Mink oil in my .40, was 10gr 3F. Higher than the water based accuracy load.
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I hunt in the Wisconsin winters and use bear oil . Rendered from bear fat .
It's easy to get the fat from any taxidermist or bear butchers .
Loads slick as grease on a door handle warm or cold
Steve
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My hunting lube is half bear oil and half tracks mink oil, saturated patch with the excess wiped off at loading. Last falls deer hunt the gun was loaded for 16 days and still performed as if just loaded.
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As usual the "Muskrat" goes against the grain. I use 100% pure Neatsfoot oil. It works just as well in my opinion as TOTW mink oil but instead of $7.00 for a 8 oz. tin you can buy a quart of pure Neatsfoot oil at your local farm supply for $9.00. I also precut and lube my patches squeezing out the excess and storing them in a tin. When hunting I load a couple of lubed patched balls in a small ball block and I am ready to go. I am not so bull headed that I can't learn so I would love to hear from the mink oil shooters why theirs is better than mine.
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I get away with deer tallow all year round. (Varies between maybe 90 degrees F in summer and minus 40 F in winter.)
I just hold the lubed patch in my mouth before I load in winter , if it's a bit stiff .
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No need to reinvent the wheel here. Our ancestors endangered species, threatened civilizations, and fought wars with the most powerful army on earth, using tallow as a patch lube. Venison, mutton, or bear tallow, works fine.
Hungry Horse
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I'm having really great luck with plain old virgin olive oil, doesn't stiffen up like many lubes do. You can use a ball block and hang it inside of your coat or shirt if needed. Keeps those patches from freezing.
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I’m sorry but olive oil has a low enough heat tolerance threshold that it is not recommended for high heat frying, so I sure would not use it for a patch lube. Just my opinion.
Hungry Horse
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Avocado oil has about the highest smoke point of any plant based oil. I haven’t tried it but that’s what I’d try if I was going to go in that direction.
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When I see patches displayed that have had olive oil applied, the patches are brown/scorched on the base.
The heat of the load has almost ignited the patch material, seems to me. I tested olive oil some time ago and
never tried it again. It did not shoot well for me. I also tried it with Beeswax as a bullet lube and it was also
wanting at that. Ordinary Vaseline worked perfectly in the bullet lubes. I have not tried Vaseline as a patch
lube.
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Alchemy is what this is about................it's like getting two or more economists to agree on something...............it's a rare thing!! Great discussion and commentary.
Thanks to all that have pitched in.
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I use mink oil in the bush and sometimes plinking at stuff. So far I haven't found anything that works "better", but then I haven't tried everything. The wild "neat" is endangered and protected where I live. :o
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I may have to double my charges, so far with a assortment of rifles I haven't found a scorched patch using olive oil. I do most often never use more than 60grs. - 70grains in my 45, 50 and 54's. I will try some heavier loads this week out of curiosity.
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The brown scorched patches might also be from not much lube.
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I have a quart bottle of pure neatsfoot oil that I bought for leatherworking... I may give it a try for patch lube.
I'm not big on treating individual patches in the field, I prefer to pretreat a strip of material and cut at the muzzle... What's the most effective way of prepping with NF oil?
Mike
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Bob McBride carries with him a 3 inch strip of pre-lubed pillow ticking soaked with a"secret" lube that seems to work well after several shots without cleaning with a wet/dry patch. Wonder how he prepares the strip with lube? Wonder what the "secret" lube IS? So many questions. I really have to get my SMR built and get it to the range and figure out some of this stuff for myself before the groundhogs are down for the season. Duh! But first I have to take delivery of the SMR kit! ( btw 'neats' are extinct in Southern Ontario but we do have cows.)
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Bob McBride carries with him a 3 inch strip of pre-lubed pillow ticking soaked with a"secret" lube that seems to work well after several shots without cleaning with a wet/dry patch. Wonder how he prepares the strip with lube? Wonder what the "secret" lube IS? So many questions. I really have to get my SMR built and get it to the range and figure some of this stuff out for myself before the groundhogs are down for the season. Duh! But first I have to take delivery of the SMR kit!
You’ll love it when you see it! She’s a beaut!
I melt it in a pan and dunk my strip. Wring it out, and hang it. The new ‘secret lube’ is a variation of the old 1p Tallow, beeswax, and _____ lube. The ____ is a natural ingredient that intrigued me when I heard about it, but was asked to keep it under wraps. Who am I to deny an ol’ salt if he offers to give me his secret lube recipe, so long as I offer an oath of silence. ;)
Howsomeever, I’m usually a bear grease or Mink oil guy.
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When using Neatsfoot oil (either pre-cut patches or strips), I pour the oil into a shallow tray. Let the patches soak all they can then I squeeze them out and lay them on paper towels to soak up some of the exces. I then put the patches in a tin until ready to shoot. The strips I roll up and place in a tin also.
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I prefer pre-cuts myself, loaded in a loading block. The wooden loading block I found needs to be finished
just as a rifle stock, so it won't absorb oil/grease from the patches. I made a 3-shot block for my .69, and
a 10-shot block for the .36 for bunny hunting.
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I have a friend down south who also likes to cut his patch on the muzzle. He uses strips of cloth rolled or folded to fit into a Sucrets tin box. He just hangs one end out of the box and pulls the material out as he needs it.
I might be missing something, but I have never had a patch that was too wet. Excess liquid gets squeezed out when the ball and patch are introduced to the muzzle of the barrel. Nor does the charge become wetted or contaminated...again, all excess liquid is squeezed out and remains on the bore on the way to the charge, right where it does the most good.
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I used mink fat in a new gun this week and I loved it. Good groups and I was only running a spit patch every 4 shots.Other lubes I use won't do this.
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When using Neatsfoot oil (either pre-cut patches or strips), I pour the oil into a shallow tray. Let the patches soak all they can then I squeeze them out and lay them on paper towels to soak up some of the exces. I then put the patches in a tin until ready to shoot. The strips I roll up and place in a tin also.
Thanks MM, just the info I was seeking. I'm well versed in pretreatment with Track's Mink tallow... Just wasn't sure about the NF oil. Figured it was pretty straightforward.
Mike
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I prefer pre-cuts myself, loaded in a loading block. The wooden loading block I found needs to be finished
just as a rifle stock, so it won't absorb oil/grease from the patches. I made a 3-shot block for my .69, and
a 10-shot block for the .36 for bunny hunting.
Pretty much what I do with my .32
It's just easier to preload everything in the block and have another shot ready for that other squirrel versus fumbling that tiny little ball out of the bottom of my pouch.
My .45 Bedford gets cut at the muzzle. But I managed to get hold of some curly maple and a bottle of Aqua Fortis... I plan to make a loading block just because.
Mike
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While not quite PC, an old kitchen HDPE (high density polyethylene) or UHMW (Ultra High Molecular Weight [poly]) cutting board material also makes a good, no-finish needing
loading block. Simply drill the correct size and then chamfer both top and bottom. Of course the board must be thick enough for this.
These are my maple loading blocks for the .69 (3 rounds) and .36 (14 rnds).
(https://i.ibb.co/RypYxNy/IMG-2859.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NS6t8rS)
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I can just picture a herd of neats running around in the pasture on stumps. Poor lil critters! Perched on their stumps, they are at the brink of extinction, just like those various-colored Naugas, who got killed off for their hides by the automobile industry.
I am a true believer in Mink oil, and got a large jar off Amazon for a pretty low price. Works great on patches, and is also excellent used as a waterproofer for your footwear.
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Ahh - the very best water-proofing agent I have EVER seen, was marmot oil. Phenominal stuff, and no need to 'try' out the fat.
use only the fat from the inside of the cavity only. Store the handfuls of fat in zip-lock bags in the freezer. When needing to water
proof the boots, take out a 'package', remove the fat and rub it into your boots. It will then take 2 washings with dish soap to get
the oil off your hands.
PS - the outside fat or marmots and bears, makes more of a paste or tallow, suitable for patches, not as good for boots.
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For the last 2 seasons I've used pure Canola oil as a patch lube. (I can't wait to hear Hungry Horse tell me about the flash point of canola oil) So far it's working quite well, I've taken 2 big gobblers with it so far and I like it for a warm weather lube.
I have'nt yet run it through the testing mill due to lack of time. I know that it hits to the same point of impact at 50 yards as my normal loads lubed with Mr. Flintlock's lube. The load I shoot at turkeys is 60 grains of 3f, a .395 ball, and real pillow ticking at .018 thickness. I've not shot it loaded over 60 grains.
Later on this spring, or summer, I do plan to spend a range day or two really checking out this lube and I will post my results.
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I really like mink oil for hunting but in a couple of my small bores I get the best accuracy out of a fairly thin .010 patch. Went out last night to target shoot with my .32 Seneca which likes a .010 patch and a .315 swaged ball. Used mink oil and Hoppes patch lube with 20 grains of Olde Eynsford and no difference in groups. With this combo I can load easily with wooden ramrod and short starter and shoot as long as I care to without wiping this particular gun. I guess what I am trying to say is a looser patch and ball combo does not always mean less accuracy from my experience so far.
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Mink Oil for me year round. I use it for all my practice too. I like to keep things simple and have one load for everything.
However, I don't use it for rust protection.
Before finding and switching to Mink Oil years ago. I used bear tallow. It worked good too but I like the Mink Oil better.