AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: OldMtnMan on June 09, 2020, 11:49:21 PM
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Ok, I need your opinions. I have my own but want to see what you guys say.
I have a .50 now. PRB of course. I was just going to hunt for deer but I have an urge to hunt for bear too. I'll be using Goex 3F. What would you use for a powder load?
This will be a stalking hunt, so the distance can vary. Generally, our bears aren't that big but we have some big ones too. A 500lb bear isn't out of the question but it is rare.
I've always used a .54, so i'm unsure about the power of a .50.
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My .50 likes 70 to 75 grains of 3F for 1700 fps to near 1800 fps. I'd feel well armed with this load on a bear hunt. In fact, a .45 at this velocity would suit me just fine.
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It’s up to you to find the best combination of powder patch and ball. All of the well intentioned advice in the world is useless until you find out what works best for you gun. That being said, shot placement is king. It’s your gun, figure it out! I hate to be so frank about this but it’s part of the journey here.
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I'm just talking about what power do I need. Of course i'm the one working up the load. An accurate load is no good if it's too weak to kill the game i'm hunting.
Hanshi gave me a good idea. Thanks, bud.
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I am with the other wise men who have responded. Get the maximum load and velocity that still maintains the needed accuracy, and is a load you can handle without flinching. Bingo you are there. Building the loads is all part of the fun my friend. So sayeth the "Muskrat"
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Ok, before this gets out of hand. I was looking for something like.........I killed a 350lb bear with such and such a load. Then I know what it takes to kill a bear with a .50.
I don't need to be told what load to use. I've been doing it for 40 years but always with a .54. I'd never use someone else's load. I just want to know what power it takes to kill a bear with a .50.
I'm not a fan of "use your deer load and you'll be fine". I know better. A charging bear is not a deer.
I know what I use for a .54. I'll just match that energy with the .50. Just making conversation but it didn't turn out well.
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Takes nothing special to kill a bear ,take out the lungs and he dies quicker than a deer . The only thing to watch for is to fast a ball and your penetration is less due to flattened ball and a slower ball means less flat and better penetration and maybe a pass thru important for blood trail as long as you don"t hit a lot of bone All that hair/fat is the only thing against your round ball ,bigger ball/ bigger mass helps but your 50 is plenty . I shoot mine with a 600 grain 190FPS (cedar shaft)/Ed
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Never shot a bear with a 50, but I always shot 90 grs. of 3 f in a 50 for deer. They don't go far if you place the shot right. I think this would be true for bear also.
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I have killed bear with 20ga. smooth and 80 gr. 2f, .54 cal. and 90 gr. 2f, .50 cal. and 80 gr. 2f, and another .50 cal. with 80 gr. 2f
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I'm not an expert but have taken bear in Alaska Canader and the lower 48 including a B&C Alaskan Brown. The greatest risk was not them charging me but rather them jumping out of sight and getting away or an invitation to a follow-up stalk on a wounded animal. Any load from a 50 will kill, people kill bears with sticks all the time.
That said IMO the most successful bear Hunter knows when NOT to shoot which is far more important. My favorite is a quartering away taking both lungs and breaking the far shoulder. Do that and they just spin snarl snap and die in a small area the size of your living room.
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Not a huge difference between a .50 and .54 cal.
Fleener
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I've hunted for bear since the 60's. In that time i've had some close calls. I used a 30-30 before turning to a muzzleloader in 1980.
My style is still hunting whatever I hunt. Bears are no different. I scout a lot looking for natural food areas that bears like. Mostly berries in this area. I do my best to sneak into the natural food areas hoping to catch a bear feeding. After exhausting all the areas with no results. I'll stake out gut piles from deer and elk kills from muzzleloader and archery hunters.
As a last resort and near the end of the season. (Sept 2-30) I try to call one in. I hate doing that because it's trying to trick the bear. I don't like tricks. I don't call elk either. However, I do want to get a bear, so I call a bit. It's pretty effective and i've called in some bears. The old boars come charging straight in towards me drolling and looking for a meal. (me) I don't have time to wait for the perfect shot. I won't take a bad shot but a straight in chest shot is all that's available before the bear is on me. These boars don't appear to have a fear of man and have been known to track a man. The DOW will verify that.
My point in all this is I can't always take the perfect double lung shot like I always do with deer and elk. I can't use a load that needs the double lung shot to work. I may have to bust through a shoulder.
Just so you know why i'm more cautious with bear loads.
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Thanks for posting that Pete! Very good, I enjoyed reading it!
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I hunt bears [ black ] every year, and have been successful most years. Last year I shot 3, one in the Spring, one in the Fall, and another during the Summer. The Summer bear had broken into a neighbour's home down the road, and she called me to deal with him. As I suspected, he was a 2 year old male. No bear is a push over. They are unpredictable. Most will run away, or at least try to when shot, but others won't. I have had them stalk me, and that will turn your blood cold because they are absolutely silent. I just caught the movement of one from the corner of my eye while sitting against a tree on a deer trail. For the last number of years I have used my smoothbores, usually the 10 but sometimes the 20. I've used rifles in .50 , 54 and .62 cal and they worked ie the bears died.
That said, I absolutely want penetration enough to have an exit wound. Bear bones are tough, and you need to get through the fur, hide and fat to reach the vitals. My .50 liked /preferred a charge of 80 gr of 2 F and would shoot into an inch to inch and a half at 50 yards with that load. 3 F opened the group to around 2 inches and that is what I used for bear. More is better IMO. I would not and did not hesitate to shoot the 2 bears I got with that load. But.....the largest bear I ever shot was taken with the 10 bore. I was sitting on a rock about 7 feet up and it walked right under/ beside me.
When I shot, the entire load with wad went through upper back, both lungs and clipped the heart. The paper cartridge remnants and ball were deep in the dirt and smoke was coming from the hole. If you figure that the Chambers N E fowler has a 46 in barrel, you'll see how close he was to the muzzle. That bear went a good 30 yards into the bush and had turned around on the path facing back. Luckily he died while I reloaded. Good reason not to follow up too soon. :) So, figure out the accuracy you need, and shoot the largest charge that will give that. I wouldn't go less that 70 gr 3F I've posted some photos of a few of the bears I've taken with my flintlocks , just to show I'm not talking through my hat :)
(https://i.ibb.co/3dDC9pN/P1010693.jpg) (https://ibb.co/T2Vgx48)
(https://i.ibb.co/Km00vXN/P1010689.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GFxxS0s)
(https://i.ibb.co/FwfCnx5/P1010013.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jMxsH6y)
(https://i.ibb.co/WxW5zWC/P1010012.jpg) (https://ibb.co/X2ZL5ZH)
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The last black bear I shot just west of Timmins Ontario 6 years ago got double lunged at 60 yards with a 45-70. I was shooting from a tree stand. It took off at Mach 1.0 toward my stand, traversed 60 yards and collapsed dead. What I remember most about the experience is how glad I was to be up in a tree stand................because there is no way I could have cranked another round into the chamber for a second shot in time to avoid getting run over and maybe chomped. The bear's speed really startled me!
I don't think I will ever hunt bear from the ground........................ever!
Be safe.
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No kidding. It's scary how fast they can move. Plus, one swipe would wipe out an old goat like me.
Thanks for the posts guys. Good to see so many bear hunters here.
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My hunting buddy shot a bear a couple years ago, and he was in a tree stand. The bear spun, and then ran and climbed the tree next to him in less time than he could count to three. ! It got about 15 feet up , stopped, hung a few seconds and dropped dead. My secret for hunting bears is to preferably not have them know I'm there before I shoot.
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Pete - pretty good advice has been given, I think. I'm with Bob on powder charge (of course) & I would also use 2F in about 85/90gr. - whatever shot best. In most round ball barrels, the larger charge would likely do better at longer range, 50 to 100yards. 75/80gr. 3F would about match the 2F loads, velocity wise, but likely the 2F would be more accurate.
The 2 to 3 year olds are better eating, but as LT. James Forsyth said "when hunting the spotted buck, be prepared to meet a tiger."
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Don't know if this will help or not. You might want to take a look.
http://namlhunt.com/traditionalmldata1.html
Good hunting and God bless.
Paul
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Don't know if this will help or not. You might want to take a look.
http://namlhunt.com/traditionalmldata1.html
Good hunting and God bless.
Paul
It's a good thing we know the PRB works better than what ballistic charts show us for fpe. It's pathetic. My load doesn't look like it would kill a squirrel but I know it's easily good for deer. Probably a bear too with a carefully placed shot.
Thanks.
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In 2017 I was on a baited hunt in Alberta, two tags. Didn,t like the bait set up so found a fresh trail above a creek. A 225 lb. bear came by my made up ground blind, he didnt see me and I shot him at four yds through the lungs with a .610 ball, 120 gr. 1&1/2 f swiss, bear ran down the slope and died in the creek. A second bear, 300 lbs. came right up to my blind an hour and a half latter and after a 20 min,. stare down he turned broadside and I shot him at eight yds but hit one of the branches in my blind and hit him through the liver, he didnt run but walked 30 yds and laid down. I couldnt find any more patches so I used some paper towels for patches and finished him off at 10 feet, the paper towels burned a nice 3 inch square in his hide.
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Wow! You beat me easily with a 4 yd shot. 20 yds is my closest. I bet that got your heart going a few beats more. :)
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Pete, the one at four yds. was a calm shot but that second bear was alot closer at first, right across the blind, 1&1/2 gun barrel length away when we had our stare down. I didnt want to shoot him there in case I didnt kill him right out because if he would have fallen into my blind we would have had a real rodeo for sure. ;)
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I would have needed the rest of the paper towels to clean up the mess in my shorts!
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Understandable.
Bears love muskrat for lunch.
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One thing is absolutely true; there is no such thing as too much gun (for the game animal, that is). Never killed a bear but have had some funny close encounters with them. If I did hunt bear either my .45 or my .50 would be equally comforting.
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Buddy of mine, when dating his future wife, was out hiking with her and they walked into a grizzly on the logging block road. Keith
wasn't feeling too well armed as he was packing a caplock .45. They slowly backed away, the bear stood his ground, not moving until
they were out of sight of it. They waited a few minutes, then proceeded back towards where it was and it was gone. He packed the
.54 from then on. Then, after Taylor built my .69, Keith had Taylor build him a .75. It turned out to be a heck of a great moose rifle for him.
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Though most of my bears have been shot with longbows, I have harvested several too, with muzzleloading rifles. The last one was just south of Quesnel BC in my buddies oat fields. The bear had a habit of feasting on oats, then waddling off into the bush for a siesta. then some time later he'd return, always down the same path, through a hole in a fence, and back out into the oaks. So I ambushed him at the hole in the fence. I was using my Jaeger .60 cal. with a stout charge (86 gr. FFg GOEX .595" pure lead ball and .022" denim patch oiled with mink lube. through the hole in the fence, I could see him waddling along the path coming directly toward me. When he stuck his head through the fence, I gave him another eye right between his two originals...distance about 6'. He dropped dead immediately. I'm certain a .50 cal would have produced the same result in this case.
I used his hide and those from two longbow shot bears to create a new coat for myself.
Bear meat is excellent fare...I have my butcher remove as much fat as possible, then make 1/3 into hamberger, 1/3 into stew meat, and 1/3 into Bavarian smokies.
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You shot him between the eyes? That's different.
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That was the shot I had...so that's what he got. I do not like shooting game in the head. A lot can go wrong with an off shot. It worked fine in this case.
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I love hearing folks telling you how much powder to use, not knowing what the twist rate is in your barrel. My .50 has a Montana barrel on it with a 1 in 72” twist. It doesn’t even start tightening its group up until you get south of 90 grains of 2F. A 1 in 48” twist 50 cal. would be struggling to keep the ball from stripping the riflings with that hot charge. Sounds like you know what your gun will, and won’t do, so be safe, pick your target, and kill a bear.
Hungry Horse
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I agree if I was asking about a load for my gun. I was just asking to see what kind of loads were working in a .50 for bear.
It turns out I was probably using more load than needed in my old .54 but it was also my elk load. I like to make one load the gun likes and use it for everything. As long as it's enough power for the biggest game I hunt which is pretty much always elk.
This time with a .50 I can't use it on an elk in Colorado. So, less power is needed for bear and muley's.
I have it worked out now.
Thanks everybody.
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I eliminated the question by selling the .50 and buying a new GPR LH .54. Now, i'll just use my old bear load that I know that works. Providing the new gun likes it like the old one did.
I don't suppose the QC has gotten any better? Anybody bought one lately?
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There was a thread or mention about the newer GPR's a short while back. It was not favourable. Hope yours gives no problems.
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I know i'm expecting too much. Why would they improve them when they can keep selling them crappy.
Well, its nothing that can't be fixed.
Other than a custom build. It's my only option for a LH .54. I could bother Dennis again to buy his gun but he seemed glad I didn't buy it last time. ;)
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Well, the GPR is ordered. I'll have my friend match the wood-metal fit and brown all the metal. That will perk it up.
Graf's had a good price on the gun. I went ahead and order 5lbs of Goex 2F too. That should be ok for this year.
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I know i'm expecting too much. Why would they improve them when they can keep selling them crappy.
Well, its nothing that can't be fixed.
Other than a custom build. It's my only option for a LH .54. I could bother Dennis again to buy his gun but he seemed glad I didn't buy it last time. ;)
Nope, its still laying on the bench with the wooden box lid screwd down ready to go. Even has the Feddx label addressed to you still on it☺
I hate to unpack it with all the foam packing still in place, planned to put it back up for sale but have been too busy to get around to doing it.
Dennis
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I wish I had known before I ordered the GPR. I think your gun would have been easier on my back. I got the impression you wanted to keep it.
Oh well. Another bad decision on my part.
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Ok, back on the deal with Dennis for his Isaac Haines.
A proper longrifle.
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IF I were going to hunt a critter that viewed me as a menu item I would want at
least a 58 caliber with a load that would cause the last 3 inches of the barrel to turn red
when it went off ;D.
HH's 50 with a 1 in72 twist can easily duplicate the ballistics of 50-110 WCF and would be adequate.
Bob Roller
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Ok, back on the deal with Dennis for his Isaac Haines.
A proper longrifle.
A proper longrifle. I agree with that. My favorite stock for shooting and hunting. I have one in .40, and one in .54
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Looks and handling aside, I would much rather depend on the lock used on Dennis's rifle than that of the GPR. A " klatch" is a horrible sound when bear hunting :(
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It looks like I can't get out of the GPL sale. Another problem with Denis's gun that I forgot or never noticed when Dennis told me. It's the 13 1/2" LOP. That's too short for me. The GPR is 14" and that's the bare minimum I can use without having my nose against my thumb. 14 1/2" is even better.
So, it looks like it's going to be the GPR. I'm thinking my back will be in trouble if I shoulder the gun on a regular basis. So, i'm thinking of using sticks. Do any of you hunt with sticks? How's it work out?
Bob.....I understand you're concern. I've had it for years hunting for bear with a .54. I shot one that ran right at me. I was half behind a tree and that saved me from being run over. It's pretty hard to knock a bear down. They always run when I hit them. Even with perfect double lung/heart shots. It takes a while before they know they're dead.
I suppose I could always just hunt for muley's alone and hunt for elk with my Lakota friend to help me get the meat out. Some bear meat is pretty hard to eat if they've been feeding on gut piles and fish.
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After giving it more thought. I'm getting Dennis's gun. If the LOP won't work the way the gun is. I can always wear a shoulder recoil pad to make up for it. With an added benefit of absorbing less recoil.
Ok, it's a done deal. I'll be hunting with an Isaac Haines in .54.
@!*%! Decisions get harder as you get older. ;)
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Isaac Haines rifles are nice handling guns. Good choice.
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I hope so. I just paid for it, so it's mine now. ;D
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Hunting season here usually means cold weather which means additional padding of sweaters, jackets etc so I'd much rather have a rifle with a LOP on the short side than one too long
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It's mid-Sept here Bob. It can be quite hot still or snowing. I hut at 11,000ft, so no way to predict the weather.
The bear hunt is the whole month of Sept. It's actually a rifle season. The muzzleloader bear season is just like mid Sept like elk and deer and only 9 days long. Hunting all month is not as good as the whole month, so I always hunt for bear in rifle season.
So, I always just hunt in Sept. the rifle seasons in Oct and Nov as so crowded. I'm glad I don't do them anymore. Another advantage of hunting in Sept is the deer are still up high and the elk are in the rut. That makes the deer easier to find and the elk really easier to find.
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90 grains or so if it will shoot well.
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Curious - Would it be feasible to "double shot" a ML rifle when going for dangerous game? NOT double powder, but double lead patched balls.
Or would one blow up a barrel doing that??
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Double balls and a little less powder. If both balls are touching and the bottom one is on the powder, NP.
Sometimes the balls will weld together. To ensure both are touching, I have heard of putting the first one down bare
then the top one is patched.
A single .54 and up will have ZERO trouble with a black bear. I would feel only slightly under-gunned with a .45 on black bears.
I would not hunt grizzlies with anything short of a "bore" sized rifle & preferably larger than 16.
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Colorado does get some big bears.
(https://worldwidetrophyadventures.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/wta_1657_3IM8AF_Unit61BearNL.jpg)
(https://worldwidetrophyadventures.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/wta_1657_5LMBGI_ColoradoblackbearNL.jpg)
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Nice griz and yes, big black bear - brown nose and distance between the "small" ears, likely 6', maybe a bit bigger even, like 7'.
The little 'booboos' are better eating.
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Daryl..............Griz or Black Bear?
(https://cdn0.wideopenspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/These-Are-The-Biggest-Black-Bear-Kills-In-The-Record-Books-Thomas-Lyne.jpg)
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That one looks like a black bear, by the lack of hump and claw length. Is a BIG BB at 23 1/16" skull.
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Speaking of Black Bear records, a member of my niece's husband's family killed this 728 lb black bear about 20 miles from where I grew up. When I lived in the area we NEVER saw any black bear, ever few years we would hear of a young one in the area but evidently passing through looking for a home :D after mama kicked him out.
This 728 Lb one did not break the VA record, which I thinks still stands, of 740 lbs.
https://www.gameandfishmag.com/editorial/virginia-state-record-black-bear/193912
I have heard of several over 400 lbs killed within 10 miles of where I used to live, never would have thought there would be black bear in our area of VA.
Dennis
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All those bears pictured are black bears, nice ones but different color phases. Note the shape of the ears, pointed and larger than a Grizzly,s rounded and smaller. Plus the shorter claws. JMHO
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I still think the first one is a griz.
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I thought so at first too Daryl but it's listed as a black bear. Big blacks can take on a grizz look. If they're dead laying on a log is sort of gives them a hump.
I'm not saying it's not a grizz but it was killed in Colorado and nobody made a big deal about not having grizz in Colorado.
I prefer to not run into one that big with a med load prb.
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The claws look like grizzly claws to me, they do not appear to be tightly curled enough for black bear claws to me.
Could be a a-year, but sure looks grizzly to me.
I would not hunt large bears like those with less that a bore rifle.
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I agree. The problem is those big bears can be anywhere in the state. They have lost their fear of man and sometimes will stalk hunters. Especially, if they know you're stalking them. They circle around and come up behind you.
Trying to call them in is another danger with those big bears. Smaller bears will be more cautious and come in slow. Sometimes they'll circle the caller and catch their scent and be gone. The big boars will come right at you in a full charge looking for lunch. That's why i've said with stalking or calling bears you don't always have time for a proper double lung shot. It's not like sitting in a tree over bait.
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If I had two brain cells to put together i'd retire from bear hunting and elk hunting. Just stick to muley's. Plus, I can kill a muley with a nice comfortable shooting load. Also, no worry about a quick 2nd shot as I do with bears.
Now, if I could just listen to myself.
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I see your point, Pete. AND especially when hunting alone!!
Black bears or grizzlies - they are at the "NASTY" size where they fear little of those on 2 legs.
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well fellers I like reading about your bear hunting with muzzleloaders, but when I look a 50cal round ball and think about a bear, no thanks! I live in the low country of SC and there has been black bears spotted around for years but at 62 years old I have hunted here all my life and never saw one. if I do and am threatened by one I hope I have my 62 in hand. some of ya'll say you are fine with a 45, I here people arguing about a 40 or 45 is not big enough for deer! I have killed an untold amount of deer in my life. it all comes down to shot placement, I bet the same is true with bear. it's just that deer don't eat people, bear do,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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Another problem is bear meat. Only one in five taste good to me. I feed a lot to my dog if it's a bad tasting bear. I eat as much as I can but I can only take so much from bad tasting meat.
I think everything considered. Especially, my age of 77 and the fact I hunt alone high in the Rockies. I should just stick to hunting for deer. I have a muley doe tag for the muzzleloader season this year. Also, a chance for another doe tag in late Oct. If I can get two does that will be a good supply of meat for me and my dog. Our does are pretty big.
That way I can take my time and load slowly in a traditional way and have fun. I'll travel light and just have my possible bag and horn with me. If I get a deer i'll go back to the Jeep and get a backpack.
I didn't mean to take you all down the wrong trail with the bear hunting. I appreciate all the posts but I think this new plan is best for me. I'm stubborn about giving into old age. I need to use more commmon sense from now on.
The Isaac Haines I bought from Dennis will make an excellent deer gun. I think 70gr of Goex 3f and a .530 ball should work well. :)
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If you hunt deer in bear country, best be loaded for bear.
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If you hunt deer in bear country, best be loaded for bear.
Sound advice,pay attention to it!!Also down here a large caliber pistol
that holds more than one shot.
Bob Roller
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I have never seen a bear in my unit in over 60 years of hunting unless I was hunting them. Even then i've gone a whole month of hunting and not seen a bear. Let alone get close enough to shoot one. My unit is one of the lousy bear hunting units. Out of 300 hunters each year one bear will be taken. Most of the time none. It's a real challenge here.
The problem is not a lot of natural food sources. So, what bears are here leave for where more food is. The only way to get one is real early in the season when there's still some berries left here or just lucky getting a bear from another area passing through here. They travel a lot in fall trying to fatten up for winter.
I know why don't I hunt another unit? Mainly, because bear hunting is not at the top of my list and I love hunting my unit. I know it well and it's hard to hunt. That keeps iit from getting crowded. I love solitude and will do anything to have it. The easier it is to hunt, the more crowded it is.
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It seems 75 gr of 3f does a great job with my .50 CVA and 290gr prb.
Hunted quite a few place in CO. don't recall seeing many bears that would go 275 -300 lbs.
So that should do just fine. Where abouts do you hunt?
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unit 481
You probably don't know but you shouldn't mention your gun and load on this forum. It's all traditional here.
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It seems 75 gr of 3f does a great job with my .50 CVA and 290gr prb.
Hunted quite a few place in CO. don't recall seeing many bears that would go 275 -300 lbs.
So that should do just fine. Where abouts do you hunt?
I think you mean a 190gr. Patched Round ball. My .495's in pure lead rings 185gr.
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I just found out the DOW is doing mandatory testing for CWD in my unit this year. I'm not jumping in those hoops.
I'm back to just hunting for bear this year. If I get mauled by a bear it will be a good way for a mountain man to go out. I'll increase the load to 80gr of 3F. I tried 90gr and the gun didn't like it. I won't call anymore and that should stop the head-on shots. I'll do my best to sneak in for a double lung and avoid the stout shoulder bone they have.
So. i'll have from Sept 2-30 to hunt. Not so bad.
Maybe next year i'll get a cow elk tag if my Lakota friend is up for helping me with the meat. Like a dummy, I tried for a bull tag this year and failed in the draw. I won't do that again. A big fat cow is fine. Especially, compared to no tag at all.
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If you havent tried it yet you might try 2f in that 54. The recoil might not be as sharp even if you have to go up 5 grains.
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I would if it was a caplock (ugh) but for a flintlock I want the quicker ignition from 3F. It's what Dennis used in the gun too. I don't want to buy 4lbs just to try or I would try it if I had some.
Surprisingly, the gun is pretty soft shooting with 3F. I know 80gr will kill a bear ok with a lung shot.
As it turned out i'll be hunting for a doe in muzzleloader season after all. It seems the CDW testing is only for rifle seasons in my unit. We don't really have any reported CDW but they want to make sure by testing this year and the rifle seasons is more than enough for a trial test. I was also trying for a 3rd season doe tag as a leftover. I won't hunt that one now if I get the tag. Bear and deer all of Sept will be enough.
I talked to my Lakota friend and the cow elk hunt is on for sure next year. He wear what you'd think a Lakota would wear who's old school and i'll be in MM clothes. An old flintlock for me and a self made longbow for my friend. We should get some chuckles but not too loud. Lakota's won't stand for being laughed at. Two cows will be great if we can do it. Enough meat for both of us for a year. We'll do it every year until neither of us can walk anymore.
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Sorry. I see many guys posting their loads. BTW; typing error on weight. Daryl caught it. It should have been 190gr not 290 gr.
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As with every game animal shot, shot placement is key. Bear internals are laid out just a tad different than a deer for example. Just forward and below the mid section seems to be your best shot on a broadside shot. I shoot a 4 dram load of Swiss 1&1/2 with a .610 ball.
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I used to know a guy that got tired of routine archery over bait kills and last I heard from him was going to try a boar spear. Never heard back... :o
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Sorry. I see many guys posting their loads. BTW; typing error on weight. Daryl caught it. It should have been 190gr not 290 gr.
I'm sorry too. I read your post too fast and thought you said CVA and a PB. I was thinking an inline. I would have noticed 290gr too had I slowed down.
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I used to know a guy that got tired of routine archery over bait kills and last I heard from him was going to try a boar spear. Never heard back... :o
Some years back, Taylor loaned a spear to an archery friend (& big game guide). He-too had grown bored shooting bears with is bow, so he practiced throwing it all
summer long, into this archery butt. Come fall and bear season, he positioned himself on a trail used by bears when leaving an oat field. His 'throw' was at about
12 feet, into the low neck/chest, the bear collapsed in his tracks with heart cut into 2 pieces. The entrance hold was a 8" wide slice.
So - what's next, short Zulu stabbing spear or sword?
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So - what's next, short Zulu stabbing spear or sword?
A bowie knife. :)
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According to legend... ::)
(https://i.ibb.co/4jwZnKM/image.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/LkqPRdH/image.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
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If you intend to hunt bear by chasing them down and stabbing them........ the best way to train in the off season is to chase down squirrels on foot. When you can catch squirrels with ease by chasing them down you are ready for bear hunting.............not before! Just saying!
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My dog can't even catch squirrels. I could catch a turtle.
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LOL - me too - if it was tired out. Dang box turtles can really move if they want to.
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Well, the second draw is complete and I got the bear tag. I failed at a 2nd deer tag though.
I may give up the deer tag I have and concentrate on the bear hunt. Our muley herd in my area are still hurting.
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I failed in the second chance draw out there for mulies, too, but don't think I'll drive that far for bears when we have them here in Maryland!
The big old time bear hunter in our state, Meshach Browning, killed a lot of bears with a knife back in the 1800's, but they were either fighting his dogs, already wounded or in a bear pen trap. I don't think anyone is running one down. ;D
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I'm too old to be running down bears. No need to . Just rub your hat with fried chicken and wait for the bear to come to you ;D
(https://i.ibb.co/MpzpDHp/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/S0k0Xg0)
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That would be baiting. Not legal here.
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Is it legal to eat a bacon sandwich. ::)
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You go first. :o
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Ok, I need your opinions. I have my own but want to see what you guys say.
I have a .50 now. PRB of course. I was just going to hunt for deer but I have an urge to hunt for bear too. I'll be using Goex 3F. What would you use for a powder load?
This will be a stalking hunt, so the distance can vary. Generally, our bears aren't that big but we have some big ones too. A 500lb bear isn't out of the question but it is rare.
I've always used a .54, so i'm unsure about the power of a .50.
I shoot 70-90 gt of FFF. 70 Swiss, 90 anything else. More is a waste of powder. If you need more penetration used a harder ball it will also help with bone breaking. Extra velocity will not = better penetration with pure lead.
Dan
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Dan.........I've gone back to a .54. My load is 85gr of Goex 3F. It's my elk load and should work ok for bear too. I use nothing but pure lead balls.
I love to sneak in close for all game. I enjoy that type of hunting more than taking longer shots. So, my load of 80gr works good.
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Sounds great Pete. Going with something you know & are familiar with, is never a poor choice.
Makes me wonder, though, at which calibre 3F and 2F give the same external ballistics (vel.)
In my .69, 2F gives greater vel. than 3F, but at lower pressures. I can shoot loads with 2F and a .020"
denim patch & .682" ball, that I cannot shoot using 3F due to it blowing the patches.
As 3F gives higher velocities than 2F in most guns, at some bore size, the velocities will actually be equal.(not that it matters much.
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In my 10 bore , with .735 balls or .715 balls [ I use the smaller ones when using paper cartridges ]
my "bear" load or maximum load is determined by my recoil tolerance. In my gun that = 140 gr FFg
From my experience, I think that load , using a ball cast of WW. will shoot through and through most anything I might encounter.
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I agree - buddy Keith uses WW .735" balls in his .75 English gun and 120gr. now, just to keep balls inside his moose. He likes to show the recovered balls off.
When using 150gr. to 200gr., all exit.
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With my fragile bones from Osteoporsis the 85gr of 3F in a .54 is my limit. I make it work by getting close.
In another thread I mention elk hunting will be my only hunt after this year. I think the 85gr will be good for elk too. I'm having October Country make me up an 85gr antler tip powder measure. All my practice and hunting will be with that load from now on. I'm hoping it won't bang my cheek too bad.
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Understandable for sure, Pete. do what you have to. I'm a mite too sore to hunt for elk - whitetails is about it, any more.
The muleys around here are too gamey for me.
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Muleys are bad here too. They taste like sage. I eat the meat but don't like it. Same for bear. They can be really bad tasting according to what they've been eating
For me, elk always taste good. Not just good but great. I prefer elk over any other meat including beef.
In my case Daryl. Elk hunting is the easiest hunt I can do. If I hunt for deer or bear i'm on my own. I have to do the whole hunt myself. That includes skinning, quartering, and hauling out the meat. I'm at the point with my back that I don't think I can do that anymore. I don't consider it an option anymore.
With elk hunting. I'm hunting with my Lakota friend. Elk hunting is all he'll do. All I need to do is the hunt and kill. He does all of the skinning, quartering, and hauling out the meat. In return we can hunt some of my secret spots and I give him half the meat. However, I also help him get an elk too. In which case he gives me half the meat. So, if we both get an elk we both get all the meat from an elk. For me that's a really good deal. He uses his self made longbow and I use my flintlock. The archery and muzzleloader seasons overlap, so we can hunt together.
Not many can say that elk hunting is the easiest hunt they can do but it's true in my case. So, it's the only hunt i'll be doing from now on and just happens to be the hunt I love the most and the meat I love the most too. A win-win for me.
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A win/win for sure. Cow elk is very hard to beat for table fare.
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Right you are. ;D
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Hey guys. Let's not dismiss the mule deer as always bad tasting. I believe if you get one that tastes bad, it is either the way it was field dressed, processed, or cooked. I've shot mule deer in northern Colorado, eastern plains, and as far south as south central Colorado. Never had one taste bad. Whether prepared as hamburger, steak, or roasts, they were delicious. My wife marinates them in milk and when she's done, well, just great tasting. $#*!, she even made an antelope taste good and I used to only use antelope for jerky.
I thought you got rid of that flintlock and bought you an inline. I believe the inline would be a little bit lighter for you and easier to carry, However, the recoil might be a little stronger due to being a lighter weight. So, I'm not sure the trade-off would be beneficial. With your back problems, maybe a crossbow would be the answer. They have some great accuracy and range.
I also agree....elk and bison are delicious. Again though, field dressing, processing, and cook prep is most important.
Happy hunting gents.
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Windriver68: In a way I agree and in a way I disagree (typical of the "Muskrat"). I have lived my entire life in a state that mostly has mule deer and have hunted them my whole life. I believe they are kind of like antelope; it all depends where they are hanging out, age of the critter but mostly what they feed on. If they live out in the sagebrush, buckbrush and junipers there is a strong chance the meat will be a little "stronger" than an animal who comes down every night and dines on an alfalfa patch and has all the fresh water to drink out of. You did hit the nail on the head how you dress out, skin, and cool down your meat makes all the difference along with age of the deer. That's where the phrase "know the difference between fat cow and poor bull".
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I agree that the handling of the game is very important.
However, if you 'do' moose, elk, bear, whitetails and mulies all the same, yet it's the mulies which
are strong (not during the rut), yet ALL of the others are not, I tend to think it's the mulies.
Now, as Mike says, what they eat is also very important. A young fall "berry 'n oats" bear is excellent fare
as are elk, moose and whitetails.
I've shot mulies in Sept and October, yet all were strong tasting even spike bucks. The does, not as bad.
I've never shot one during the rut, but have had the displeasure of smelling a neck-swollen mule deer buck
steak in the frying pan - smelled like a tom cap pee'd up my nose. Buddy Keith cooked just such a steak in
the correction staff lunch room one night on graveyard shift. Yeeeoyyyyy - I had to leave the room. He said
"it's not too bad once it's well done". Yikes.
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Read “44 Years in the life of a hunter” By Meshack Browning. He hunted for a living in Maryland in the late 1700’s and into the 1800’s. He killed over 500 bear, over a thousand deer, and several panthers with what he calls a light caliber flintlock rifle. He continued to use the flintlock after percussion guns became available.