AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: wabeek on June 14, 2020, 06:24:03 PM
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Jeffrey S. Evans, June 27, shows some Va. long guns, one flint, balance percussion, for those who may be interested.
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wabeek--What is the Lot Number for the VA. Flint long gun?
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WESTbury, Flint is #1003. Go to jeffreysevans.com, 2nd day, all long arms there. Good luck!
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Oh, I saw that longarm.
I would need to see some documentation. If that were a documented "Committee of Safety" musket, I doubt it would be on the open market. It is evident that the barrel is a Birmingham product by Wilson having pre 1813 proofs.
Perhaps a repurposed fowler. The arm has a lot of unanswered questions.
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Thomas Wilson of Birmingham ?? The description says Richard Wilson and while I see a "W" with a mark before it that could be an "r"
Who was Richard Wilson? If the barrel were not made in the area what's the odds the entire (original) gun were made locally?
Some of you must have gotten on this since the bid has gone from $200 (?) to $900 since about an hour ago.
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Molly--Richard Wilson of London was on the British Ordnance System as a Setter Up and supplied barrels and locks from 1756 as did his son William until 1782. There are many British longarms still in existence with Richard Wilson's initials. Note drawings "#4 & #6 on the attached chart by George Neumann.
(https://i.ibb.co/64mV1z4/1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GV0BtyV)
(https://i.ibb.co/Vj2VbNr/2.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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So then your view is that RW may have produced the barrel (and lock) and "supplied" them to ?? (a colonial maker)?? who then assembled the final product?
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Molly--The only thing for sure is that Wilson made the barrel. The lock, who knows, the cock looks to be late 18th Century. The triggerguard is Long & Short Land Bess style. The rest is open to speculation. The origin of the whole gun may be English or pieced together in North America, it's impossible to tell.
It is a very English looking arm.
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Looks a lot like Brutish style colonial fowling pieces to me.
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Rich---Was "Brutish" a Freudian Slip? :)
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I appreciate the views! I am drawn to it but not if it is something other than what it is represented as being. Just my opinion but Evans seems to be a person of good integrity with his descriptions. I think he goes to great lengths but still most remains the responsibility of the buyer to come to their own conclusions. Mr. Barlow (the owner) also has a lot of credibility, so it's not a matter of questioning his conclusions.
BUT I have been personal witness to numerous conversations where the top authorities have expressed vastly different opinions.
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Personally, I like it. If I was in a position to try to get the high bid, I would definitely try. Unfortunately, I'm not. The "untouched-uncleaned" look, is great.
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Current bid is $950, asking for $1000. Not unreasonable. So if you were bidding what's your top $$?
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I would need to do quite a bit of research and actually handle it at the preview before I could determine its value to me. I think they have a 18% Buyers Premium as well. That is definitely a limiting factor.
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I would love to know Gordon's reasons for thinking it might possibly be from the Augusta Arms manufactory at Staunton
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Ditto!
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This fowler has classic American lines of the last half of the 18th century. The English triggerguard, butt plate and barrel plus the French sideplate and an American curly maple stock and trigger suggest a gun put together here in the colonies. The thumb piece also looks American. Where it was made is anyone's guess. But I see some similarities to the Hills family of CT. I have a John Hills fowler with the exact architecture in curly maple and with a Wilson barrel and lock plate.
Just my two cents.
Al
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Rich---Was "Brutish" a Freudian Slip? :)
Perhaps!
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But I see some similarities to the Hills family of CT. I have a John Hills fowler with the exact architecture in curly maple and with a Wilson barrel and lock plate.
Just my two cents.
Al
Al---It does have the look of a fowler built in New England. Perhaps the alteration to the barrel and forestock, to accept a bayonet, was performed in the post Rev War period for a member of one of the many New England Militia groups. More speculation.
You know, these people should have kept better records so, two hundred years later, collectors would be able to determine just what the heck they were up to. Very inconsiderate if you ask me.
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Perhaps it was modified after the war for the militia and perhaps, it was modified during the war, or even before. we'll never know.
Al
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Relative to this thread, this article in ASAC Spring 2002 Bulletin #85, is chock full of great info on the Wilson family.
(https://i.ibb.co/1vg13jC/Wilsons.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LkFmMHT)
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It appears that the bidding is up to $1,200 right now.
I do like the flint double 12 ga.
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I hope someone watches the guns sell and will post prices. Ordinarily we would be there but 4th Saturday of the month = BLACK POWDER GROUP shooting day.
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Gee, up to $3000. Someone sure is buying into the claims.
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Gee, up to $3000. Someone sure is buying into the claims.
A good story gets 'em every time.
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A good story gets 'em every time.
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WESTbury, You sound like a Bidder,,, Trying to downplay it!
;D
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Ha!!!! If I was going to "down play it", I would have mentioned the vise marks on the left side of the barrel at the breech.
Ooops, I just did! ;)
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A Maple/American stocked American Revolution era gun/fowler , in this condition is worth at least 3 grand I don't care if it was made in Virginia or in the Northeast. I have paid more for a less, rarely have I paid less for this much. Guess I am not accustomed to people giving me good guns. ;D
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Avlrc- very good point.
Al
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As I mentioned in an earlier post, I like the musket very much. I'm quite sure that it will go for a handsome price, and deservedly so.
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Went up to preview the goodies today. Just my opinion but it is not as nice as it may appear in the photos. The fore end has been repaired. That repair is not identified in the description. Maybe a section of 12 or so inches from the end of the barrel. The break is/was right at one of the pins. I would say it may have been completely separated or maybe not and it is the original section that was used in the repair. Well done but could have been done better. Maybe (probably) an old repair. Overall it seems rather crude. Maybe that speaks to the notion that it was swiftly done in a lesser shop. If the marks on the left of the breach are from a vice they have been there a L O N G time. Maybe it is everything you would expect in a pre rev war firearm??
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Molly--Many thanks for sharing your observations with the forum.
Vise marks are not always a sign of somebody messing with the gun. It does appear that the patina around the vise marks is consistent with that on the surrounding area of the barrel. As you said, it has been there a very long time.
Any thing significant to report on the lock?
Kent
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PM sent.
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Molly, Great catch on the fore end repair. I am impressed.
Please cc me on lock comments. Regards, HIB
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Hi Henry!
PM sent.
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They got good money for it, 12 grand. Looks like on the first three lots, the Wheelock was the best deal. Great to see a piece of American history get a good price. Glad to see there is some people who still appreciate and love American History. Congratulations to the seller and buyer.
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They got good money for it, 12 grand.
Excellent, I'm glad to see it. Auction prices are holding up well for antique arms which is great as "rising tides, lift all boats".
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That area is near home to a number of collectors who frequent the auction. " Amazing price for a $2000 gun!"