AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: deepcreekdale on July 04, 2020, 01:40:03 AM
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Trying to learn how to post pictures on this forum, thanks Bruce! This is a Spanish Escopeta I recently built and sold. Being born and raised in Florida, I am attracted to the Spanish history of this area which is different from other parts of the country. These firearms were very common, and in wide use well into the 1800's here. These locks are fascinating, they are strong, reliable, take any size flint, do not need tools to replace the flints, and since there is little inletting for the lock internals, the stock is much stronger in the wrist/lock area. Many authors describe these as "precursors" to flintlocks but that is simply not true, they are true flintlocks in every sense. The Spanish continued making them in percussion until the cartridge era. As you can see from the one photo, they definitely spark! Escopeta is essentially Spanish for shotguns, these guns are generally if not always smoothbore, very light and handle extremely well.
(https://i.ibb.co/dkXmCR6/miq1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0Y1s4xZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/2MTcD11/Miq2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Jp9rfww)
(https://i.ibb.co/m4HRv6s/Miq3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YhtNDp9)
(https://i.ibb.co/sq1dpkS/Miq4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GRM4fBw)
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Cool build, very nicely executed.
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VERY cool, Dale!
Might one ask (and get an answer - LOL) where you got that nifty lock? I doubt it is from Chambers...
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I'll bet he made it.
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Dale does make those locks, but he will probably be around shortly and will answer the specifics. I had the opportunity to shoot that rifle right after it was completed and I can not say enough good about the smoothness, trigger pull and general fun it was to shoot it. Saying it sparks well is an understatement.
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Very nice build!
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Thanks for the comments! The lock is made from Rifle Shoppe castings. This one is off their Catalan Style Escopeta. actually, except for the cock, these locks are easy to make from scratch, All the parts move laterally, nothing rotates except the cock and frizzen which just pivot on screws. The stock is made from sapela wood, which is an excellent stock wood although it does not have a great deal of figure. I heavily modified a Jaeger triggerguard into the Catalan style and made everything else from scratch.
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Thanks, Dale. I may have to try making on of those someday soon - after I get moved into my new place, at least. Thanks for the reference to TRS- do wish they had pictures of their locks instead of just a stock number.
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Nifty.
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Truly fine work, sir. I’ve been interested in making one as well, having lived in two corners of New Spain’s empire, in Arizona and now here in Florida.
I’ve been fascinated by them since seeing a particularly sleek one in the New Mexico State Museum in Santa Fe. Much more handy than many contemporary Anglo accounts seem to point to, though I have seen some pretty bulky ones.
Thanks for sharing your work.
Davison
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Me gusta. I really like your Escopeta Catalan. Inspires me to finish the lock I have. Sapele is a very good choice for the wood, though most were made from European walnut. A lot were restocked in the colonies and probably some were stocked with Cuban Mohogany, or in the South west with Arizona walnut.
I've never shot anything with a miguelete lock. That is why I've been hesitant to finish the lock. Did't want to put a lot of work into something I couldn't get a decent trigger pull with. Fine build .
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Variety is the spice of life!
Thanks for showing. Does it stand upright on the butt?
Grand and V tough locks, these.
Richard.
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There is a nice example of an escopeta in the museum in Monterey California, that doesn’t have a Catalan style stock.
Hungry Horse
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I think the escopeta in Monterey was stocked in the Casteelian style, which is more like other European styles.
Hungry Horse
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Greetings, Alacran I made the same Lock and Escopeta from TRS 20 yrs ago. The trigger pull is not bad at all and would not hesitate to make another. In fact I still have another set of castings for future build. The Arizona Historical Museum in Tucson has one of the largest collections of Spanish firearms. Brinckerhoff's Book---- Spanish Military Weapons in Colonial America 1700-1821 has a lot of them in it.
Hank
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Me gusta. I really like your Escopeta Catalan. Inspires me to finish the lock I have. Sapele is a very good choice for the wood, though most were made from European walnut. A lot were restocked in the colonies and probably some were stocked with Cuban Mohogany, or in the South west with Arizona walnut.
I've never shot anything with a miguelete lock. That is why I've been hesitant to finish the lock. Did't want to put a lot of work into something I couldn't get a decent trigger pull with. Fine build .
The trigger pivots very high, directly under the tang. The trigger pull is very light and positive because there is so much leverage pulling back on the sear. Finish the one you have! You will love it. I spoke to a gentleman at the CLA who is on this forum who has excavated several of these for the state of Florida from shipwrecks, he has found several of them that were marked as being made in Mexico and dated 1707. Obviously the wood was gone so no way to know what those were made of. I agree, most were probably made from European walnut or beech and built in Spain, but, since Spain had such a vast trading network I figured it would not be outlandish that a gunmaker would have had access to African wood. Interestingly enough, the Spanish provided 18,000 muskets to Washingtons army during the revolution and Andrew Jackson armed his militia with, as he described them, "ancient Spanish miquelet muskets" from New Orleans. So, these were much more prevalent on the frontier that we generally think.
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Dale, Love the Escopeta! I think you are referring to a couple of miquelet firearms that were a set, but recovered 15 years apart and miles apart on the ocean bottom. They were both well signed by the maker on both the barrels and the frizzens. One was a Trabuco (carbine/blunderbuss) and the other was a matching pistol with a belled muzzle. They were signed (Miguel) Ramires on the top flat of the barrel, Mexico on the left flat and Anno 1709 on the right flat. The wood was not identified for either stock when I was employed there (Conservation Lab). Ramires and the year (1709) were repeated on the back of the frizzens of both. They both exhibited the Catalan style of gunstock and were both decorated in a matching manner. There was quite a bit of the pistol stock left and the Trabuco stock was complete and in excellent condition. the metal parts on the Trabuco were completely rusted away, but using the rock as a mold, I was able to cast all of the metal parts in Hysol resin. On the pistol, the lock parts were in perfect condition, except for the lock plate, which was completely oxidized away. The reason for the lock plate being gone was the fact that he brazed on the powder pan and the lock plate was sacrificial to the brass brazing. I hope to get with you soon for a visit when this virus thing is over. James Levy
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I guess I will add this to the list of many projects I have to finish. It has always been curious to me why the sizable amount of assistance by Spain to the american Revolution's cause is mostly ignored. George Rogers Clark's attack on Ft Sackville, was largely outfitted by the Spanish. Clarks men were issued model 1752 Spanish muskets, as well as the cloth for their uniforms, which were tailored by the French inhabitants of Kaskaskia. The citizenship of Havana took up a collection and delivered what would amount to millions of dollars in gold today and delivered it to the Americans. What is most notable to me is that General Bernardo De Galvez, is mostly never mentioned. This despite that he never lost a single engagement to the British.
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Also, Spanish barrels were highly desired by British gunmakers in the 18th century. Generally, well to do Brits would acquire a Spanish barrel and have their gunmakers build a gun around the barrel. I understand that these barrels were very thin walled and thus very light. Great British Gunmakers 1740-1790 by Neal & Black is the reference.
Cheers Richard
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Well, I definitely have one of these Spanish locks in my future. Beautiful workmanship on the one shown.
Alacran, I knew that the Spanish "lent a hand" for the Revolution, but did not know how large the hand was! I will definitely have to do some research on that, and am thinking that there are quite a few records of their assistance. Cool to know about the carbines and uniforms.
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One question, Could you post photos of the forearm? I would like to see your barrel bands.
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One question, Could you post photos of the forearm? I would like to see your barrel bands.
Since I have sold this gun, I only had one decent picture of one of the bands. I have included 2 more pictures from another gun I had made for a customer which has better views. Alacran, the way I make them is from some 50 thousandth brass from some old door kickplates a friend gave me years ago. I make a paper template of the rough shape, wrapping it around the stock and the barrel. Then, cut out the brass, anneal it well and just wrap it around the stock and barrel and tap it to fit tightly. I anneal often but the whole operation goes quickly. Then, I mark where the ends will meet, usually at the bottom of the band and file for a close fit. I then silver solder with Silvalloy solder from Brownells. They are remarkably strong after soldering. The bands that have the slots cut in are even easier. I cut in the slots while the brass is still flat. After annealing, you can almost bend them to shape with your fingers. They are also surprisingly robust and strong. Levy pointed out to me that the ones he had excavated had slots like that. The more I build these, the more I find that there was a very good reason for everything they did.
(https://i.ibb.co/yh5xsd6/barrelband-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4sM0NK8)
(https://i.ibb.co/bb7pCbh/barrelband1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TWrz7WX)
(https://i.ibb.co/51XRjx1/barrelband-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Gdf5M3d)
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Thanks for the pictures. I have Brinkerhoff & Cchamberlain's book as Well as Lavin's book. Neither one show very good photos of the bands or how they go about making them. That will be very helpful. I have my lock pretty much put together now. The only thing I need to do is make the sear as a two piecepart. The rifle shop casts them as a single unit therefore the half cock stud doesn't have free movement. I was missing a couple of parts for this lock and I had made my own sear, but I had the angle if the cam wrong. I was amazed that The Rifle Shop had that part as well as a few others in stock. Iwill use their sear and modify mine for a future project. Like you said these locks are very simple to assemble. I see in your lock the mainspring doubles as the frizzen spring. My lock is a 1786 carbine lock and has a separate spring for the frizzen. That being said did you harden and temper the springs according to TRS's instrutions? I'm leary of qunching the springs in water.
Again thanks for your time.
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There is a separate frizzen spring, although it is small. It is up under the brace that supports the frizzen screw. in the photograph I added to this reoly , it is the small blue piece right above the mainspring. I have used their instructions on making springs for several projects, they have all turned out perfect. I was leary of using water at first as well but I have never had one break and every one has been strong and limber after tempering. The half cock notch is a single unit, it takes some trimming and adjusting to fit the half cock notch, which has to pivot into the lock plate, to smoothly slide in. Once you have made your first one, all the others after will be a snap. These locks are just different from what most of us are used to. I am currently working on a snaphaunce lock for a Scottish Musket that should be fun as well. Either that or give me grey hairs. just for fun, I have included a picture of the mainspring on a miquelet lock to one from a Chambers round face fowler. The miquelet spring is obviously the larger of the two. They are definitely powerful and throw some sparks.
(https://i.ibb.co/x8pt5Sn/DSC-2071.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wr9F6Nn)
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What happened to the 18,000 Spanish muskets provided to Washington's army? Are they the 1752 model with the miquilet lock? How were they issued, and to what troops? Do they survive in any numbers? Are they valued by collectors?
Until this thread, I was TOTALLY unaware that Spain had contributed in ANY fashion to our cause. It simply WAS NOT taught in the public schools that I attended.
Thanks for your answers.
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What happened to the 18,000 Spanish muskets provided to Washington's army? Are they the 1752 model with the miquilet lock? How were they issued, and to what troops? Do they survive in any numbers? Are they valued by collectors?
Until this thread, I was TOTALLY unaware that Spain had contributed in ANY fashion to our cause. It simply WAS NOT taught in the public schools that I attended.
Thanks for your answers.
The 1752 model had a standard flintlock, not a miquelet - it was a copy of the 1717-1746 series of French muskets except that they retained the loop on the top jaw screw. In 1791 they went back to the miquelet lock but kept the rest of the musket the same - I've seen this called the 1752/91 model.
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I am still trying to wrap my head around the fact that Spain's contribution to our fledgling nation was not ever mentioned in 12 years of public school, nor in the several years of college that I attended.
Anybody think that the war on fascism might have had something to do with such an omission?
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I am still trying to wrap my head around the fact that Spain's contribution to our fledgling nation was not ever mentioned in 12 years of public school, nor in the several years of college that I attended.
Anybody think that the war on fascism might have had something to do with such an omission?
No it goes way back further than that. The colonists fighting the English were after all mainly English. There was animosity between England and Spain since Henry the Eighth. A lot has to to with the Catholic Church and the Protestants fear of Papists.
The fledgling Americans would take the opportunity to take help from who ever offered it at the time. As they did with France. After peace was signed with England we almost went to war with France. Not much in schoolbooks about that either. The reality is that France and Spain had Bourbon Kings that were related by blood. They had a secret treaty in which both had to provide a substantial amount of treasure in support of the Americans. This largesse was in their own self interest. After all the two nations were monarchies that had no intent at the time to support the American experiment in their own lands.
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I am still trying to wrap my head around the fact that Spain's contribution to our fledgling nation was not ever mentioned in 12 years of public school, nor in the several years of college that I attended.
Anybody think that the war on fascism might have had something to do with such an omission?
Not really. Franco wasn't ever really our enemy. Couple of other factors that likely are more important:
Americans inherited a dislike from the English for Spain dating back to the Wars of Religion - they are pretty typically the villains in film and fiction, for example. Look at old - or even not so old - pirate movies, for example...
Most of American history early on was written by historians living in the Northeast, and tended to reflect that viewpoint. This is referred to as the New England Bias. Not a whole lot of Spanish influence in New England, so its importance elsewhere tended to be overlooked.
Plus, the US has had a bit of a crush on France - and they on us - for most of our history. Sometimes that crush manifests itself in anger and mockery, but it is there all the same - neither country is really indifferent to the other. That tends to lead us to focus on France to the exclusion of other nations, I suspect.