AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Contemporary Longrifle Collecting => Topic started by: tippit on July 29, 2020, 03:03:29 PM
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I have a Brant Selb 54 Cal hawken which I love. I'm now looking for a smaller Cal Hawken used from Brant possibly but would like to know other quality makers too...tippit
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Herb Troester in Vernal.Utah has made a number of Hawken rifles but you'll have to find out
if he is still taking orders for them.
Bob Roller
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Bob Browner, he lives in Missouri ...
He is the go to guy for a Hawken.
Jim Parker at Calvary Longtifles has built Hawken for past NRA president. Hard to get him to build a Hawken but these two men are great....!
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We had a good thread listing half-a-dozen or more masters of the Hawken style not too long ago, but I cannot find it again. It must have been in OTBF, or it is no longer searchable because the OP is no longer a member, or the OP deleted it.
I'm sure most of those names will re-appear here soon. I just thought I could find the previous listing and save some folks re-posting.
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2nd Bob Browner. That’s who I’d pick.
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Bob Browner. He’s got a wait list. Louie Parker. Not sure if he’s taking orders.
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+1 for Bob Browner in St. Louis.
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John Bergman ,Tennessee He builds a very nice Hawken.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/flntlok
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Another vote for Bob browner
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I'd make Don Stith or Louie Parker do it.
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John Bergmann is talented at Hawken rifles, and is a very nice guy to deal with. I'd put him on your "short list" to talk to. God Bless, Marc
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See this post. https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=60746.0
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I'd second Mike's recommendation of Don Stith. Also I really like the work I've seen Herb post here - I like it a LOT!
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Here's a Bergmann walnut Hawken I found a picture of.
(https://i.ibb.co/51JrbmH/IMG-4001-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sgXK8nY)
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I like Herb's work a lot too
Rob
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Herb or Louie Parker :)
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I haven't seen GudD display a Hawken, but he sure can build other longrifles! :-)
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D. Taylor Sapergia! :)
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Redheart: you are very kind...much appreciated. But I am unlikely to build another Hawken, certainly not for someone other than myself. But the truth is, I have a really nice piece of walnut inlet for a tapered Rice barrel 1 1/8" tapering to 1" x 36" long, bandsawed to a Hawken profile...we'll see.
Taylor
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Above is the only reason I didn’t mention Taylor. Was pretty sure he’s got a wish list lined up.
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I'll never finish all the guns I have parts saved up for...and I keep adding to them. I bought a Bill Large .45 cal x 42" barrel this spring and will build a Bedford Co. rifle around it...got parts coming from TOW as we speak.
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Redheart: you are very kind...much appreciated. But I am unlikely to build another Hawken, certainly not for someone other than myself. But the truth is, I have a really nice piece of walnut inlet for a tapered Rice barrel 1 1/8" tapering to 1" x 36" long, bandsawed to a Hawken profile...we'll see.
Taylor
I kinda thought so Taylor, but I didn't want to see you miss out on well deserved recognition, even though I know you're not seeking it. :)
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Taylor,
Please post pictures of your Bedford build. I have a Large .45 barrel 3/4 atf that I have been saving for a Bedford build.
Regards,
Dave
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I like Louie Parker and Taylor's Hawken rifles too. Check out Taylor's "Hawken stuff" on this forum.
As for finding a builder I would be cautious about the lead times. I have had a number of custom rifles made for me over the years both Hawken and Shilohs and have had custom work done on rifles I own, all were longer than the stated lead times. Quality takes time and I am old enough now that waiting a year or two for a custom rifle is something I would have to think about. Most custom builders I have dealt with were pretty straight forward about their lead times but even so I have had custom rifles have a 6-8 month lead time that took more than 2 years to actually get. It was worth it in the end for me I got exactly what I wanted but I had a lot of money in it that could have been used to buy an already made rifle. There are a lot of really nice rifles for sale that were made by some of the builders mentioned here that could be purchase rather than wait for one to be built. So lead time for me is something I have considered more seriously as I have gotten older. I would rather be shooting than waiting and if I were considering another custom rifle I would check out what might be available on the used market first. By no means do I mean this as a criticism of custom builders rather, the wait lists speak to the quality of the work they produce. But the wait list and lead time is something anyone wanting a custom rifle should consider seriously before putting down hard cash.
With respect,
Rob
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I think Taylor's version of the pistol/bag grip Hawken was an outstanding version
of a different idea among a herd of looking too much alike rifles.Whoever ordered
that one has the right idea IMHO.I hope he does live long enough to get done what he
wants to do in the gun making for himself.Several years ago I was giving strong consideration
to having Don Browm make a long range Henry for me but we used that money to help one
of our sons get a home in Texas.We are glad we could do that.At 84 I have no more interest
in having a custom rifle made nor do I have any desire to shoot a rifle in the prone position
that heaves a 550 grain bullet backed by 100 grains of high grade black powder.
Bob Roller
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Keep in mind every person mentioned so far has waiting list in the years.
This is for good reason. They are masters of their craft, and there aren’t very many out there making real styled Hawkens of toppest qualitication.
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Keep in mind every person mentioned so far has waiting list in the years.
This is for good reason. They are masters of their craft, and there aren’t very many out there making real styled Hawkens of toppest qualitication.
I agree! There aren't very many out there that even know what toppest qualitication even means. ??? ::) ::) :o
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What I was referring to was know ahead of time what the realistic lead time will be if you can get it. In my experience a quoted lead time always ends up being a fair bit more that what is first quoted. I would also recommend frequent communication when your rifle or project is begun by the builder, lessons I learned by experience.
Rob
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2-3 years is probably average for a good builder. I'd have a conversation with the builder just before he starts then leave him alone. He can't build your gun while he's gabbing on the phone.
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Niel Fields of Vernal Utah, ( also a mate of Herbs) would build a nice Hawken rifle, he also built rifles for Doc Whites Green River Rifle Company, pm me if you want his contact details as he is a mate of mine.
cheers
Gordon
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I have a Brant Selb 54 Cal hawken which I love. I'm now looking for a smaller Cal Hawken used from Brant possibly but would like to know other quality makers too...tippit
I have Brant making me one now. Absolutely cannot wait for that rifle to be done!
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Thank y'all for the names. At 74, looks like I won't be having one built for me. I'll keep pursuing the want ads to see if one turns up...tippit
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Thank y'all for the names. At 74, looks like I won't be having one built for me. I'll keep pursuing the want ads to see if one turns up...tippit
And at 84 you may be kicking your older self in the butt for not getting on a list now.
Don't dig your hole prematurely. Good luck finding one or a builder that suits you in a timely fashion.
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Tippit,
Why not build what you want? It costs nothing to learn about what you like and the history of the rifles you like. I hadnt built a rifle for nearly forty years and finished one a couple months ago. I just started a new one and have a couple others in the works. You could too!
Rob
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Is building a Hawken significantly more difficult than building a traditional long rifle?
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Some with way more experience than me say yes. I have only completed two rifles working on a third and all were Hawken or Hawken like. The first one I built was nearly 40 years ago and I didn't feel it was that difficult at the time. The one I just finished is a full stock Hawken flint and I had some difficulties building it but got through it ok. The one I am presently building is going along better than the full stock flint. This one is a full stock too but percussion. The subtle features of the Hawken and getting them right is what makes them difficult.
Rob
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Is building a Hawken significantly more difficult than building a traditional long rifle?
Building any muzzleloaders can be hard or easy. If you’re dealing with a CNC kit beautifully designed with great architecture, I’m not sure it can be hard. If you’re starting with a blank, a barrel, lock, and small parts and are building a halfstock Hawken rifle or a plain flintlock rifle with no carving, engraving or patchbox, the plain halfstock Hawken is much harder.
You have to fit and finish the hooked breech compared to a simple flint tang.
You have to hold that hooked breech together while inletting.
The long thin curved tang is a bear to inlet. Then a bear to drill in center and into the long, thin, curved trigger bar.
Cutting the lockplate to fit the snail on the hooked breech is not a lot of fun.
Double set triggers are a must on a Hawken but optional in many longrifle styles.
Fitting, drilling and tapping the rib is tedious.
That thin steel, deeply curved buttplate is a bear to inlet compared to malleable brass buttplate with little curvature.
That’s just the nuts and bolts of it. On a plain Hawken there’s nothing but architecture.
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Is building a Hawken significantly more difficult than building a traditional long rifle?
I'd highly recommend a video like Hershel's where he shows the viewer a lot of the differences in the structure and architecture of Hawken-type gun vs. most of the guns that came before them.
The Hawken-named rifles that I and many others started out with are nowhere near what a real Hawken is. Any time you build a gun to represent a particular builder or shop or county, it's worth a deep dive to be sure you get it closer to right than many of the high-volume commercial production examples we see.
Anything less is a bit of a disservice to the fellas who did make the originals.
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The Hawken Shop in Oak Harbor, Washington (www.TheHawkenShop.com) has the most authentic kits available as they are the owners of the parts, molds, castings from the original shop in St. Louis). You would think I would be more up to date on these historic weapons living in Oregon but after having one (a fine custom full stock) I am one of the few who would much rather shoot from the 1750's to 1820's era flintlocks. They may or may not complete one for you but it might be worth a call or check out their web page.
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Is building a Hawken significantly more difficult than building a traditional long rifle?
Building any muzzleloaders can be hard or easy. If you’re dealing with a CNC kit beautifully designed with great architecture, I’m not sure it can be hard. If you’re starting with a blank, a barrel, lock, and small parts and are building a halfstock Hawken rifle or a plain flintlock rifle with no carving, engraving or patchbox, the plain halfstock Hawken is much harder.
You have to fit and finish the hooked breech compared to a simple flint tang.
You have to hold that hooked breech together while inletting.
The long thin curved tang is a bear to inlet. Then a bear to drill in center and into the long, thin, curved trigger bar.
Cutting the lockplate to fit the snail on the hooked breech is not a lot of fun.
Double set triggers are a must on a Hawken but optional in many longrifle styles.
Fitting, drilling and tapping the rib is tedious.
That thin steel, deeply curved buttplate is a bear to inlet compared to malleable brass buttplate with little curvature.
That’s just the nuts and bolts of it. On a plain Hawken there’s nothing but architecture.
Thank you for taking the time to write this excellent response!
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The Hawken Shop in Oak Harbor, Washington (www.TheHawkenShop.com) has the most authentic kits available as they are the owners of the parts, molds, castings from the original shop in St. Louis). You would think I would be more up to date on these historic weapons living in Oregon but after having one (a fine custom full stock) I am one of the few who would much rather shoot from the 1750's to 1820's era flintlocks. They may or may not complete one for you but it might be worth a call or check out their web page.
A little clarification is needed
The parts,Molds and castings they have are from the 1970's Art Ressel version of the Hawken shop. They are not from Jake and Sam's Hawken shop of 1840.
Don
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Don: Sorry I did not know this. Thank you for setting the record straight, that's all any of us want. My bad.
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I had a plains rifle built for me by John Bergmann. He used a barrel he had made for the project by Bobby Hoyt, it is 34" long .54 caliber and tapered from 1 1/8" to 1" at the muzzle. It shoots great. He did a fine job, and I am very fond of the rifle. That aside, the rifle weighs about 11 and 1/2 pounds. It ain't no tulip!
If I was going to do it again I might be tempted to order components from Don Stith and either do it myself or have a guy like Bergmann put it together and it would have a slimmer barrel to get the weight down.
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I am working on a light plains rifle that Don put the parts together for me. Its a full stock Hawken squirrel in .54.............before anyone jokes about a .54 squirrel we have big squirrels! Seriously though I wanted a lighter Hawken full stock in percussion in .45 or better to use and carry in the field. Don had a .54 and that will work. The parts set is great and so are the plans and Don has been very helpful with questions I have had as I build it. I plan on doing an early J & S Hawken full stock flint from his parts after I finish this one. Don's a great guy to deal. Also Roger Sells has been very helpful getting details on my next fullstock flint build he built a fantastic copy of an early Hawken in a walnut stock.
Rob