AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: Shreckmeister on July 30, 2020, 06:32:36 PM
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A barrel signed, relief carved Joseph Mills Bedford County rifle at a rural auction in Somerset County.
The rifle was missing it's lock and tang, but otherwise in fantastic condition without any wood loss except at the forward area of the lock and original finish. The original lock and tang were later recovered.
The man who put the rifle in the auction said he picked the rifle from an estate he cleaned
out. Appears to be a hand forged lock signed J M.
(https://i.ibb.co/vYS2xPx/IMG-4654.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nCFhscs)
(https://i.ibb.co/Y2phvq8/IMG-4535.jpg) (https://ibb.co/p2JdC9Z)
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You're one lucky guy!!!
John
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Schreckmeister--You had best buy a Lotto ticket before the spell wears off! ;)
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Shreckmeister,
Great story! Excellent that you were able to reunite the lock with the rifle. It's wasn't luck that compelled you to find and speak with the seller of the gun. Also not luck that got you to think of asking him about the missing lock. There's a lesson for us there on how to make your own "unbelievable luck". I admired the fierce looking eagle inlay on this gun in your earlier post in response to Louie's "Lets see your Eagle" thread. Very cool gun. The lock sure looks like it started life as a flinter. In your photo I believe I see signs of filled holes in the plate. Can you send photos of the back side of the lock and lock mortise area?
Thanks,
Loudy
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You lucky dog! Are you going to post some pictures or just tease us?
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How great to see a genuine Bedford Co. lock. I'd say, from the evidence of the filled holes before and after the carved away pan and fence, and the filled hole where the frizzen spring was attached, that the lock plate at least was originally a flintlock. the hammer looks like an afterthought.
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Here's another vote for originally flint. You can see the shape of the lockplate edge where the frizzen spring finial rested. I can't recall any specifics about Mills' percussion guns, but if the rifle started out as a percussion, wouldn't it have had the characteristic Bedford hammer shape, considering the lockplate shape fits the classic Bedford shape?
-Joe Stein
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Awesome, and what a wonderful lock. You must be living right.
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Looks like a JA to me, as in John Amos.
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Shreckmeister,
Great story! Excellent that you were able to reunite the lock with the rifle. It's wasn't luck that compelled you to find and speak with the seller of the gun. Also not luck that got you to think of asking him about the missing lock. There's a lesson for us there on how to make your own "unbelievable luck". I admired the fierce looking eagle inlay on this gun in your earlier post in response to Louie's "Lets see your Eagle" thread. Very cool gun. The lock sure looks like it started life as a flinter. In your photo I believe I see signs of filled holes in the plate. Can you send photos of the back side of the lock and lock mortise area?
Thanks,
Loudy
I'll certainly post photos of the back side of the lock when I get a chance.
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Looks like a JA to me, as in John Amos.
The barrel is signed Joseph Mills and matches with the patchbox and eagle. Here's a closer pic of the signature on the lock.
The lockplate is very similar to the one on page 108 in Dr. Whiskers book.
(https://i.ibb.co/KLW8qdz/IMG-4656.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F0zdw2q)
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I think it was a flintlock when it was made and the percussion hammer is what it is
which is an expedient to get the gun shooting again.
Bob Roller
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I think it was a flintlock when it was made and the percussion hammer is what it is
which is an expedient to get the gun shooting again.
Bob Roller
Bob, it could definitely win an ugliest hammer competition.
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Loudy
(https://i.ibb.co/R9VRp6N/AC2-E6-BE9-5610-4527-B541-5-A569-E023-B51.jpg) (https://ibb.co/t4WVM2z)
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The Lock is certainly originally flint.
Now, whether the rifle was could be another question. You know the usual indicators, and wonder if you can tell/measure whether the barrel has been shortened at the breech end? Muzzle end?
A suitable fix might be to find an original Bedford percussion hammer that fits (good luck on that one) (But not impossible) and pop it on. I think most would agree that Bedford percussions look better than the flint versions.
Great find and catch, needless to say!!!
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Confession, I really do not know anything about the Bedford style lock. What is the notch in the lockplate just below the tapped hole for the frizzen spring?
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Westbury, Just decoration.
Bedford percussion locks are very distinctive.
John
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Westbury, Just decoration.
Bedford percussion locks are very distinctive.
John
Thanks John for the reply. The lockplates themselves must be some of the narrowest ones out there. I think that some of the hammers on the percussion conversions are some of the most distinctive I've seen. The rifles themselves are very pleasant to look at.
Kent
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JTR there is no indication of shortening. Muzzle decorated. Barrel lugs have not been moved. Original pin locations. Notch for flint clearance. Hole for forward lock bolt. I think the gun was orig flint. Fact that it resided near Bedford adds credence since Mills left Bedford during flint era and moved to OH.
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Rob...How lucky can a guy be! Beautiful in every sense of the word. Hope to see a photo of the complete Rifle even with it's locks current configuration.
How long is the barrel? Bob D
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Please more photos of the rifle also?
Thanks
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Westbury, Just decoration.
Bedford percussion locks are very distinctive.
John
I believe there is a nib on the back of the frizzen spring extension that anchors into that depression to keep the spring from moving.
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(https://i.ibb.co/nc0QwHL/2-E5-ED311-81-FA-4011-BB31-E45-C47742-EF1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QNcYJ2K)
(https://i.ibb.co/wzz6dck/1742-C27-B-DEEC-4-EED-8256-39-D59-B1-E5-C5-F.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QKKmJDg)
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Westbury, Just decoration.
Bedford percussion locks are very distinctive.
John
I believe there is a nib on the back of the frizzen spring extension that anchors into that depression to keep the spring from moving.
Normally the "nib" that keeps the frizzen spring from pivoting about the frizzen retaining screw is located farther from the screw and closer to the bend of the upper and lower leaves of the spring.
(https://i.ibb.co/vkdtZhy/a64734a12e586784a228c9-m-56846-1381953057-1280-1280-edited-1.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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Disclaimer: I’m judging that from the photos of Mills locks in Dr Whiskers book.
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Rob, You are my HERO!!!!
Collectors dream of going to a auction and coming home with something like that.
Does it have nice forestock molding? How about the toe plate?
I have a J.A. ( John Amos ) marked lock . The initials are nothing like Joseph Mills.
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Shreck,
I don't know, but I like this hammer More than the usual Bedford hammer!
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Thanks Jim. Here is the forward part of the rifle.
(https://i.ibb.co/9pZ226y/F1-D14-C6-C-45-FF-4689-8152-34-F9-B277-C431.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Zf2KK5c)
(https://i.ibb.co/Jqz4y3M/1-A5-ED73-B-E5-F6-46-A5-9705-69-D237-CFC4-E9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/42jGY15)
(https://i.ibb.co/M2KzTdz/A5-DA757-C-DAE2-464-D-BCEC-13-F2-C16-B89-BD.jpg) (https://ibb.co/znC3cd3)
(https://i.ibb.co/stw54vJ/F755838-D-7-AF8-4-C51-ADE4-2-C3-D02-FDE4-C4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XVsyPZk)
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What a find!! You need to head down my way and help me find one! Great rifle and story, thanks for sharing.
Matt
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Rob - congrats on an excellent find. The horse shoe pays dividends once more.
Buck
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I feel certain that the notch cut along the bottom edge of the plate in the vicinity of the screw anchor hole for the frizzen spring, is just decoration to designate the area for the spring's boss.
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I’m sure you’re right Taylor.
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Westbury, Just decoration.
Bedford percussion locks are very distinctive.
John
I believe there is a nib on the back of the frizzen spring extension that anchors into that depression to keep the spring from moving.
Normally the "nib" that keeps the frizzen spring from pivoting about the frizzen retaining screw is located farther from the screw and closer to the bend of the upper and lower leaves of the spring.
(https://i.ibb.co/vkdtZhy/a64734a12e586784a228c9-m-56846-1381953057-1280-1280-edited-1.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Whatever the notch was meant to be, it is definitely not for the frizzen spring.
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Incredible, glad the two were reunited!
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(https://i.ibb.co/1dcr9M7/CF6-E486-B-C231-4102-954-A-142-E6-C900-FC1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qW6NRC7)
(https://i.ibb.co/NFh5h1m/803-AA45-C-BBEC-4624-8-B98-B4-BA718-A28-CE.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PrpKpT9)
(https://i.ibb.co/BfTGFtt/0153-EA58-D643-4446-921-C-F3085-E81-EA30.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rQ53Nmm)
(https://i.ibb.co/C8D7Q5g/FE140-E25-D378-4-FAA-90-DC-2-D58-F6-DAA724.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qjVspMK)