AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Contemporary Longrifle Collecting => Topic started by: Panzerschwein on September 27, 2020, 10:46:25 PM
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Does anyone out there on the net enjoy the Schimmel school barn guns?
I recently commissioned one from a builder and await it eagerly. I very much enjoy the plain look yet beautiful architecture. Despite not being heavily festooned, they have a character and charm all their own and from a good builder, it can really allow the architecture to shine through. And, just like in the old times, they can be a less expensive option for a build since there is little to no carving or embellishment involved.
I love the ones that are worn in or made with a patina. They have the quaint attractiveness of something like you’d see at a Cracker Barrel whilst enjoying some grits and fried okra around the fireplace. They just scream Americana to me and have a natural humility and honesty about them that I find as pleasing as the most bedecked specimens extant.
Here is a beautiful example from Allen Martin and I chose to provide it as a reference point for my builder:
(https://i.postimg.cc/q7n17nv2/5-E2571-E7-9277-47-BB-AF13-33-A4-AA513-EB8.png)
Anyone else a fan of this style?
-Panzer
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Nope. Nobody here likes plain guns:
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=50924.0
;D
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I love these barn guns. A friend has a Bedford style barn gun that has a big square nail in the heal of the butt, instead of a buttplate. It has only a single ramrod pipe out at the muzzle. And literally no triggerguard. The hand forged trigger contours the wrist of the stock, and the turns downward at the end with a curl. It’s maple stock has enough curl to make it interesting, and the finish is superb. It gets stares everywhere he takes it.
The prettiest barn gun I every handled was a Lehigh style stock that had been precarved, but had some of everything wrong with it. It had a bark inclusion in the butt section, and a knot in the forearm, and some really ugly mineral streaks as well. The guy decided to build it anyway. The hardware is all either hand forged, or made from nonessential parts. The triggerguard is made from an old wrought iron chain link, that locks into the trigger plate ahead of the trigger with a key action that locks it down when it is put in and rotated a quarter turn. The rear finial is drawn out and secured with a screw. The buttplate return was amber cow horn, with a jacked leather buttplate. The bark inclusion became a tallow box covered with another piece of the amber cow horn with a wrapped sheet iron hinge. But the finish is what set it off. He gave it enough coats of Aquafortis to turn it jet black. He then turned it over to his wife that does period tole painting. She painted it up, and when done he gently rubbed it back a little, so the wood looked like wood, and the tole painted surface looked old and worn, then covered it with a couple coats of sealer. Wow it’s gorgeous, and just folksy enough. He’s turned down some real money for it a couple of times.
Hungry Horse
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This long slim plain as a fence post barn gun and the British styled long range rifle like
the one Curtis is finishing are my all time favorites.
Bob Roller
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The "plan n perdy" thread is my favorite. I've gone a schimmel on order, also, hopefully will get it within a few months. I've looked at those two examples on Allen Martin's website more times than I can count.
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The "plan n perdy" thread is my favorite. I've gone a schimmel on order, also, hopefully will get it within a few months. I've looked at those two examples on Allen Martin's website more times than I can count.
Ain’t it purdy, tho?
LOVE that gun!
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Buttplates are highly over rated.
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Barn guns an SMR style rifles are my favorite...wuth the Soddy at the top....when it comes to guns..the kiss theory prevails..
An yep I like them a lot. .Oldtravler
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Panzer,
The only mistake you made was, .....not having Allen Martin make it for you. NOBODY does it better!
Here’s one I did a couple of years ago, smoothrifle with a faux wrist repair and a little patina.
(https://i.ibb.co/C6byS7T/30001-C03-994-F-464-B-ACBE-4-C4-BB6-EF4-EFD.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1MrN4qw)
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Panzer,
The only mistake you made was, .....not having Allen Martin make it for you. NOBODY does it better!
Here’s one I did a couple of years ago, smoothrifle with a faux wrist repair and a little patina.
(https://i.ibb.co/C6byS7T/30001-C03-994-F-464-B-ACBE-4-C4-BB6-EF4-EFD.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1MrN4qw)
I don’t doubt that but his waiting period is like 5 years now and for a basic Schimmel he charges about $3500.
I could very well be dead in 5 years time, frankly speaking.
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This is a Barn gun hot off the bench this week. Weather has been bad so I haven't got great pics yet, sorry. It does have a steel butt pl and hand forged trigger guard instead of a fancy brass casting. This was make from a qtr. sawn curly ash blank and uses a .45 cal x 42" Rice Premium A-B barrel and Late Ketland lock made by Dennis Priddy. This was made to customer specs. I love the folksy look to it!
(https://i.ibb.co/G9dwQbq/20200928-121034.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2SF23fT)
(https://i.ibb.co/f8cMpWP/20200928-121051.jpg) (https://ibb.co/N14xjqH)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZTPNGsH/20200928-121134.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kcfM5n3)
(https://i.ibb.co/vxRLT3y/20200928-121159.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RpdQs3r)
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planning on building a Schimmel and would like to see more pictures of them. looking for dimensions, and do they have cast offs?
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They start out like a normal rifle build but the extras are left off. Same barrels, locks, trigger, dimensions, cast-off, etc. as a fancy rifle. The butt plate is the biggest area of departure, and if no plate is used then it get rounded over some to prevent snagging and breakage of wood.
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no butt plate, no nose cap, no side plate, no entry pipe. i think i'll give it a try. is the stock fancy or plain? aand how long of a barrel
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While mine is a Gillespie and not Schimmel it is exactly what I think of when I think of a barn gun. I agree I like to see them highly patinaed. I wanted mine to look like a 200 year old rifle that was well used but well cared for. Just because it saw a hard life doesn't mean it has to be a falling apart rust bucket. fortunately for me Don Bruton felt the same way and we had the same vision for my rifle. not much more than a "lock, stock and barrel".
(https://i.ibb.co/5cVJBTb/Photo-23.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KyH8F6T)
(https://i.ibb.co/1b4YQKZ/Photo-24.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZNbRXKd)
(https://i.ibb.co/DkD2bkT/Photo-36.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ctcnvtV)
(https://i.ibb.co/25MB0cn/Photo-37.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vDd8CLw)
(https://i.ibb.co/kQH6wQ9/Photo-53.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0hDV6hF)
impreza 2.5 rs 0 60 (https://statewideinventory.org/subaru-0-60-times)
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Mike; NICE, how long is your barrel?
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yip: The good people at Rice Barrel Company supplied the barrel for this project. It is a 44-inch "A" weight .32 caliber Dickert/Lancaster that came crowned and during the build was coned.
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Mike; i used Rice barrels before they are great. i guessi'll call and talk to Jason and order a 32 cal. did you say they were coned?
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No they come crowned. For ease of loading those tiny balls with my big hands I had my builder cone the barrel.
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Well another hair brained idea for Jim Kibler...With the interest in barn guns. Jim could opt out a couple programs on his CNC omit the butt plate...an..walla...a simpler southern gun for all the non butt plate fans.. maybe throw in a piece of copper or brass for a faux repair or copper... Ok ...time for me to go back under my rock....but it's a thought... Oldtravler
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Yes, I too like the plain jane rifles like the elegant fowler Tom Caster finish for me. Now I have to run over to his barn to pick up a rifle named Barney who like myself is aged, grizzled and grey. Thanks Tom.
Geo. D
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Buttplates are highly over rated.
I guess that would depend on where you use the gun and for what purpose. When hunting in the mountains of Montana I always thought a buttplate was a good option. Sometimes the going is steep and rocky and the rocks more often than not have edges, where I grew up in Iowa not so much. I built my first "barn gun" in 1967. But I only have done 3 all before 1970.
And I have seen guns that still lived in the barn. Though not MLer.
Dan
(https://i.ibb.co/KwB7B5G/P1000983.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HdRYRK2)
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Talking about a Southern Mountain barn gun is like talking about an entry level Yugo. Heck they’re pretty much all bare bones, and entry level. And those mountain folk pretty much lived with their rifles. I suspect it would be highly unlikely they would leave even a rudimentary rifle in the barn.
Hungry Horse
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Talking about a Southern Mountain barn gun is like talking about an entry level Yugo. Heck they’re pretty much all bare bones, and entry level. And those mountain folk pretty much lived with their rifles. I suspect it would be highly unlikely they would leave even a rudimentary rifle in the barn.
Hungry Horse
Unless it was only used when butchering.
Or it had been a "bad gun".
Stranger things have happened. And places in W. VA, Kentucky and Tennessee were and might still be "different".
But hanging in a barn is not a good atmosphere for a firearm, but neither I nor my companion, a long term friend of the ranch family, knew why it was out there and we did not ask. But it was. That was where it "lived".
Dan
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gonna order a 32 cal from Rice, what size r/r/ do i use, 5/16"?
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9/32” lol. Unless you get a custom RR drill you’ll need to decide between 1/4” and 5/16”. Most would go with 5/16”. But most originals in small calibers had small ramrods. 1/4” is not uncommon to see in .36 caliber original percussion longrifles.
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thanks Rich; i'll go with a 5/16. never went with a small cal like that, just thought it would be something different. smallest i went was 45cal on rifles i have built and went as high as 54cal. just thought i'd give it a try.
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I wonder if a critter will care if the gun that puts him or her in the skillet is engraved
raised carved,incised or had exquisite hard ware or was it a lock,stock and barrel tied together with
bailing wire?? :) :) :)
Bob Roller
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Bob; my sentiments exactly. Every rifle fancy, normal or plain has its own beauty. Tomorrow I am going to clean house at the big OTF shoot with my Don Bruton .32 Gillespie
"barn gun".
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I’m fixing to jump right into a crazy little barn gun. 36 inch 40 cal., flintlock with wrought iron mounts, beech stock. I’ve never worked any beech but my buddy out in Iowa says that I’m going like it. I’m wanting to make something for a person of small stature, something that will fit a young man or woman as well as an oversized oaf like myself. The barrel is a 13/16” so it’s going to be a feather weight.
Stay tuned.
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Stoner; can't wait, i ordered a Rice barrel in 32cal 44"long a profile and can't wait to get started. desiding to include a home made butt plate or not.i hope to read more.
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Yip. I would forgo the "wear plate" (often called a butt plate) if I was building another SMR or "barn gun". Don't miss it on mine and very authentic and period correct. Just my 2 bits worth.
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Yip. I would forgo the "wear plate" (often called a butt plate) if I was building another SMR or "barn gun". Don't miss it on mine and very authentic and period correct. Just my 2 bits worth.
Some time ago,Mike Brooks posted a picture of a half stock English rifle with no butt plate'and
it was a good looking gun.I think he called it a Game Keeper gun or Deer Park rifle.I have a
half stock flintlock rifle started and am considering this idea IF I ever get around to working on
it again.It has very low priority now.
Bob Roller
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I have bought a lot of hog rifles in my day and built a few. The old ones, if you put them in your lap, every one has a story to tell.
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Buttplates are highly over rated.
Have agree with Mr. Mike Brooks. After building several dozen SMR buttplates for myself and customers. These thing tend to fight me every step of the way. ☹️🤣
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:o :o... But Ross,.... you seem to fight them back every step of the way and end up winning,... !!! ... I like your work,... You've got it right,... !!!
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Since a number of you guys mentioned Allen Martin making very nice shimmels, I'd like to have you check out this link. It shows a number of photos and the conversations Allen and i had about the gun he would make.
https://www.blackpowdermag.com/allen-martin-builds-a-schimmel/
A number of my shooter friends said, "Allen didn't leave an extra oz of wood on this, did he." I don't think it weighs 6 lbs.
Regards,
Pletch
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That shimmel is fabulous ! What caliber is it ?
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I’ve always been a function over form kind of guy so barn guns have always really appealed to me. As a matter of fact, my next project (I still have to decide if I’m going to build it or have someone else build it) is probably going to be a barn gun. I’ve got the lock, stock and barrel just waiting...
I would be interested if anyone could identify some sources that discuss the history of barn guns.
Ez
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I would be interested if anyone could identify some sources that discuss the history of barn guns.
Ez
I just read an article titled "David Boyer, Schimmel Rifles of Berks County" by Timothy Lubenesky, KRA in "Selected Articles from the KRA Bulletin (Volume 1 - 30) published in 2005 by the Kentucky Rifle Association.
Kevin
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5/16" works just fine for .32 as well as .36 and .38, even .40.
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Kibler used a 5/16” rod on their .45 SMR.
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Buttplates are highly over rated.
I guess that would depend on where you use the gun and for what purpose. When hunting in the mountains of Montana I always thought a buttplate was a good option. Sometimes the going is steep and rocky and the rocks more often than not have edges, where I grew up in Iowa not so much. I built my first "barn gun" in 1967. But I only have done 3 all before 1970.
And I have seen guns that still lived in the barn. Though not MLer.
Dan
(https://i.ibb.co/KwB7B5G/P1000983.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HdRYRK2)
Hunting "Out West" in AZ buttplates are a must. So are moccasins made by the Danner tribe.
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I too like plain flintlock rifles. I think that to some degree we over embellish the guns made today. I have to believe that the vast majority of guns made 200 years ago we rather plain because that is all the buyer could afford. I'm looking for a BUILDER that will make a nice plain but quality rifle. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks
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I too like plain flintlock rifles. I think that to some degree we over embellish the guns made today. I have to believe that the vast majority of guns made 200 years ago we rather plain because that is all the buyer could afford. I'm looking for a BUILDER that will make a nice plain but quality rifle. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks
Don't assume that people didn't have any money in colonial America.
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I think people in colonial times were not a lot different than those of today.
Here's a quote that comes to mind.
"People are real funny. They spend money they don't have to buy things they don't need to impress people they don't like."
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I too like plain flintlock rifles. I think that to some degree we over embellish the guns made today. I have to believe that the vast majority of guns made 200 years ago we rather plain because that is all the buyer could afford. I'm looking for a BUILDER that will make a nice plain but quality rifle. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks
Don't assume that people didn't have any money in colonial America.
One of the things that startled the soldiers, both British and Hessian, sent over to suppress the Revolution was just how prosperous the average colonial farmer seemed to be. Being used to European-style revolts of starving peasantry, they couldn't figure out why people who were obviously doing so well, with plenty of food and land, would seek to rebel, and came to the conclusion that the colonists were the most spoiled and ungrateful people who had ever lived!
The colonies had real problems with cash flow due to the lack of hard currency in circulation, which made paying for certain things (like Government-required stamps) difficult, but that doesn't mean that they were poor per se, and the local gunsmith was one guy that could be paid in bushels of corn or cured hams instead of coin, though I imagine at some point he had to acquire coin to pay for European-made parts. However, the parts of a gun that had to be imported from overseas - the lock and barrel - were present on every gun, and the extra bit brass and the labor to create a fancy gun may not have been as expensive in terms of opportunity cost as the nominal cost might indicate - i.e., "10 dollars" more for carving and an engraved patchbox might sound unthrifty, but if that ten dollar cost can be payed in surplus corn and hams that I can't eat, store indefinitely, or trade for their theoretical value without a lot of trouble (because all my neighbors also have corn and hams and the local general store, as a consequence, isn't offering much in trade for corn and hams), then I have got ten dollars in value for them and the gunsmith has enough to feed his teenage boring-machine-power-source.