AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: RANGER94 on October 28, 2020, 12:00:07 AM
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Hello Everyone - I have been taught to run a wet patch (soapy water), followed by two dry patches after every 3rd shot. I am not sure why? I was at the range today shooting my .40 percussion, and all was going well. After I cleaned after shot #21 (1 wet patch, then 2 dry patches), it took 2 percussion caps to get it to fire. After I cleaned after shot #24, it would not cook off at all, after numerous percussion caps. I had to remove nipple and pour powder down the vent to get it to go off. I strongly suspect the powder in the barrel was damp?
When I got home today and cleaned the gun, I first used the scraper, and there was substantial amount of crude on the scraper.
Am I cleaning to much at the range? Or am I not drying the barrel enough after cleaning?
Any thoughts or tips would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!!!
Ranger94
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I always run a spit patch down the bore after each shot and a dry patch.
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What is your ball/patch/lube combo?
Mike
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.395 Hornady ball, .015 wonderlube precut patch. 40 grains of 3F.
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OK, does it feel like you have to swab after 3 shots? Or is it just a habit?
Mike
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Change the lube,measure the patch thickness as those precut wonder lube patches are some times not as thick as advertised. Try some real 18/1000 patches with tracks mink oil lube.
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OK, does it feel like you have to swab after 3 shots? Or is it just a habit?
Mike
Just a habit!
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Ranger 94: On my .40 I seldom wipe between shots but when I do (bench shooting) I use a 2x2 inch square cotton cleaning patch with 90% Isopropol alcohol down the bore followed by 1 clean dry patch, flip that one over and run it back down before reloading. Don't over soak the patch! Hornady .395 round balls with .015 ticking patches with either TOTW mink oil or 100% pure Neatsfoot oil, (note the .015 is measured after greasing the patches as they do swell a few thousandths). The patches I pick up are totally reusable again. 60 grains of Goex 3F for hunting 40 of the same for paper punching and trail walks.
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Ranger 94: On my .40 I seldom wipe between shots but when I do (bench shooting) I use a 2x2 inch square cotton cleaning patch with 90% Isopropol alcohol down the bore followed by 1 clean dry patch, flip that one over and run it back down before reloading. Don't over soak the patch! Hornady .395 round balls with .015 ticking patches with either TOTW mink oil or 100% pure Neatsfoot oil, (note the .015 is measured after greasing the patches as they do swell a few thousandths). The patches I pick up are totally reusable again. 60 grains of Goex 3F for hunting 40 of the same for paper punching and trail walks.
Don't over soak the patch! - I highly suspect that is what I am doing. And I just realized I am not wiping the bore down with soap & water, but recently switched to: Birchwood Casey No.77, Black Powder Solvent. I am saturating the patch with the No77, running it down the bore, flipping it, running it down the bore again. Then running 2 dry patches (flipping them each time, so about 4 passes). But I am really not paying attention if the last patch is damp. This is like clock work after every 3rd shot. Could this be my issue?
Thanks for all of the help here!!!!
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My take on the situation, is that in cleaning, you are pushing fouling down into the breech- which is either a drum or patent breech, where it builds over time then plugs it up.
Your combination is good except for the patch and lube.
With that .005" undersized(smaller than the bore) ball and a 10ounce (some guys get by with 8 ounce denim patch "wet" with your No 77 lube, you should never have to wipe
during a day's shooting. Try it, you might like it. A number of guys here have done just that, and they like it.
It does not matter which gun I shoot or have shot, .32, pair of .36's, a .40, pair of .45's, 3 .50's, 3 .58's, a .62 , a .69 or pair of .75's, none of them ever required wiping during a
day's shooting no matter haw many shots were fired, nor breech scraping when cleaning them. At all times, the barrels were removed for cleaning, pins or keys. I've never had guns
with long, delicate tangs.
In all of those guns, picked up fired patches could be used & have been, and more as in the .69, I shot a 2" offhand group at 50yards, using the same 12oz. denim patch for each
shot (about 1990). Indeed, I have a stack of about 40 reclaimed patches for the .60 and .50 for re-lubing.
So - wiping is not necessary, but the load combination has to be such to allow it. It helps to have a nicley polished muzzle crown, like these.
Machine cut crowns:
(https://i.ibb.co/c6LYDPN/Machine-cut-crown2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F5VHg9B)
(https://i.ibb.co/0YvyNJZ/stretchman-s-muzzle-before.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r5N2PyM)
After polishing with emery or paper with thumb:
The smoothed corners allow the patch and ball to conform into the bore, so tight loads can be loaded easily
without cutting the patch.
(https://i.ibb.co/9YL0mtV/stretchman-s-muzzle-after.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GPLDfTt)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZTN14cS/Dave-Crysali-Kibler-s-muzzle.jpg) (https://ibb.co/j4HZ03z)
(https://i.ibb.co/SK41phZ/English-Holster-Pistol-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/y8cMJwx)
(https://i.ibb.co/BBgkyFd/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gJDYShH)
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If you aren’t blowing the crud out the muzzle you’re pushing it down into the breech. Load tight, clean light.
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Ranger,
As you can see there are differing opinions on the topic of wiping between shots. There's a body of thought that wiping between shots should be done as a safety measure. I've been on dedicated muzzleloader ranges that REQUIRE it. I'm not going to comment on that aspect. There are a couple of things you might want to look at if you're wiping and having problems. The amount of moisture on your wiping patch can definitely be a source of issues. I wipe between shots. My wiping patches are "just damp". Additionally, if you are going to do it be advised that the size of the jag on the end of your wiping rod and the thickness of the patch material you are using to do the wiping are critical dimensions that (if not optimized) can cause you to be simply forcing all the barrel fouling down onto the breech face.
I use a 2x2 piece of thin flannel material for my wiping patch. NOT the same patch I load to shoot with. I also turn down the jag on my rod just a bit. It has been my experience that as purchased, the brass jags I have picked up over the years are all (slightly) different diameters. Some are too large to wipe with as purchased. They force all the fouling down to the breech face and generate the same sort of problem you are experiencing.
Hope this helps.
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i have been using a mixture of 1/3 equal parts of isopropyl alcohol, Murphys oil soap & Ballistol as a patch lube. i also use it to clean the bore after then finish with a patch of straight Ballistol to finish. i never swab when shooting at the range that can be all day sometimes and doesn't matter which caliber rifle i use also doesn't make a difference what the weather is either. i switched to this mixture about a year ago and it has made my life much easier. i used several different patch lubes prior and some were worse then others. also when using this mixture it takes 2 to 3 cleaning patches at the end of a shooting session to get the barrel clean. yesterday i was at the range resighting in my .54 cause i put new sights on it. i used mink oil as a patch cause that is what i use when hunting and i shot right at 30-35 rounds through it trying both .535 & .530 ball with .018 pillow ticking patch. it all loaded well and had no issues but i did have to run about 5 or 6 cleaning patches down the barrel at the end to get barrel clean. this is just what works for me but a good friend who builds rifles and is an exceptional shooter told me about it. i knew back when i did a lot of target shooting i use to see people swabbing after each shot and i never understood why they had to do that or why they would want too.
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I’m pretty sure all the record holders at Friendship clean between shots. They do a lot of things that most would consider tedious in the quest for best possible consistency shot to shot. Everybody has their own goals and preferences. For many, reducing a 5 shot group by 0.1” at 50 yards is not worth weighing balls and charges, cleaning between shots, using an extended funnel, hammering the ball in, etc. each to his own in their own situation. What works on the target range with the top competitors obviously won’t work hunting (if a second shot is needed) or on a woods walk or rondy situation.
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Daryl has already covered the subject well about wiping vs non wiping. I find wiping after every shot or every three shots to be very problematic. For this reason I do not swab the bore at all until I've finished the shooting session. But the smooth crown & strong, thick patch with the right lube eliminates the NEED for bore wiping. In the woods it's not that much trouble, but I prefer to shoot rather than tinker with the bore. Plus, wiping has the potential to cause misfires.
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Daryl has already covered the subject well about wiping vs non wiping. I find wiping after every shot or every three shots to be very problematic. For this reason I do not swab the bore at all until I've finished the shooting session. But the smooth crown & strong, thick patch with the right lube eliminates the NEED for bore wiping. In the woods it's not that much trouble, but I prefer to shoot rather than tinker with the bore. Plus, wiping has the potential to cause misfires.
Plus, wiping has the potential to cause misfires. I am most certain that is what I was doing to myself!
I cannot thank everyone enough for the assistance. I would have got severely frustrated and probably thrown in the towel!
THANKS!!!
Ranger94
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Don't quit now, you are just embarking on this journey.
Best wishes,
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Here's my two cents when I started working up loads in some of my flinters I would get great/almost instant ignition till I wiped/cleaned between shots, every 3rd-5th. I got better results not wiping, but it was harder to seat the ball, crud ring( I broke a ram rod) all this with goex 2ff/3fff and 4f in the pan, with gato lube (combo of tallow perfin and bees wax) and thin patches. It didn't help that I have a notched breach plug and some with patton breaches . ...So I was pushing the mess/fouling into the area of ignition, wetting it (using 1 patch w windex to wipe fallowed be 2 dry) on a .50 cleaning jag . >:(
Then I switched to all mutton tallow 10oz denim (.020) and swiss powders also a .45 cal jag
Now I don't have to wipe (or not as often) less fouling and the jag patch rides over the fouling(.45 in my .50 guns) and then I turn the rod to the right(righty tighty)as it hits the breach plug and pull(not push )the fouling out ;D the less I wipe the less I get slow or hang fires
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With respect to wiping the bore between shots, so much depends on the breech. With a flat faced breech, one can wipe between shots and remove most of the fouling. There will be some fouling build up, but that can be mostly removed by turning the rod clock wise with the patch at the breech. If the firearm has a chambered breech, then some fouling will always be pushed into the breech and eventually miss fires, hang fires, and failure to fire will occur.
The shooter should use a shooting procedure that takes into account the type of breech that gun has. If the gun is a percussion gun with a flat faced breech, then the wiping with a damp patch between shots will keep the fouling consistent with some fouling to build up in the flash channel. At about the 10th or 15th shot, when the damp patch is at the breech a percussion cap should be fired to blow the fouling into the patch to be withdrawn from the barrel. The same is true if the wiping is done with a wet patch followed by dry patches after the third shot.
The fouling build up is quicker if the gun has a chambered breech. That has to be cleaned out since the patch on the jag is pushing fouling into the chambered breech with no real way to easily get into that chamber to remove the fouling. Using the percussion cap to blow the fouling into the damp patch will help. T/C used to sell a stepped jag to reach into the reduced diameter chamber to clean between shots. Yes, you still have to take care of the flash channel between the nipple and the powder chamber. Periodic firing of a percussion cap can help keep that channel clear.
The other option to keep the fouling in the barrel consistent from shot to shot is to use the lubricant in the patching material in the patched round ball as the wiping agent. That way the shot is blowing the fouling at the breech into the barrel and the wet patched ball is pushing fouling down the barrel. At the range, the excess lubricant won't adversely effect the charge. You want to use a different, less liquid lubricant when hunting.
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:-X
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I have had the same thing happen... after a few cycles of shooting and wiping, the vent hole becomes so clogged with fouling the rifle won't shoot.
Now I don't wipe between shots, except at the end of a relay when the rifle may be sitting... in NC the humidity can often harden the fouling inside the bore to the point where it's really hard to load. Sometimes a 5 or 10 minute cease-fire will result in some difficult loading. However, I may just need to use a bit wetter patch for these circumstances. I typically just use Ballistol as my patch lube, but I should probably look at some of the suggestions made here. And my patches are probably a bit too dry (considering that the process of loading sucks moisture out of the patch on the way down the bore).
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Now, I know some guys like dry patching and so be it. I, however don't and my patches are WET- not dripping, but wet right through and it squeezed,
they will drip. This is when using a water-based lube, or an oil or grease. Thus, when I load, the lube in the patch softens the fouling that is in the barrel
making loading quite easy. Due to having compression of the patch in the bottom of the grooves, the bore is effectively wiped quite clean in the loading
sequence. Lube is left on the bore by the passage of the lubed patch and all of the fouling from the previous shot, is pushed down on top of the powder.
On the next shot, this fouling is blown out with the patched ball, and indeed, (likely) more lube is squeezed onto the bore which helps soften the fouling
from that shot. Yes - this is peculation, however the ease of loading the next load must be attributed to something.
If time, 5 minutes, 10 minutes or more passes before loading the next round, yes, it gets crunchy due to the drying of that shot's fouling. However, that
load is still pushed down but needs a little more force on the rod due to the dried fouling.
If was shooting in a situation where this waiting to load was normal, I would likely wipe the bore before loading the next load.
If continually loading and shooting, the bore's condition remains the same, shot to shot and great accuracy is the result.
If the bore's fouling is allowed to dry completely, then there is a change in the condition and this will likely effect accuracy in a negative way.
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Another thing to remember is that there is a learning curve to shooting flintlocks and it's little bit steeper than for percussion. That bit of challenge is what keeps it all interesting.
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Hello Everyone - I have been taught to run a wet patch (soapy water), followed by two dry patches after every 3rd shot. I am not sure why?
Maybe I can shed some light on the reason you were taught to do that. A few decades ago we didn't have some of the patch lubes and other items we now have. The patch lubes used often varied by the part of the country you were shooting in also. The first lube I was taught to use was "Spit", this lube is still used by a lot of shooters to this day and it is excellent at cutting black powder fouling.
Back then, in the early 70's, my main lube was "Crisco". My rifle shot tiny groups with this lube as long as I cleaned my rifle after 3 shots due to the fouling. Once the ball got hard to seat it was time to clean it. I kept a clean patch in my mouth through the first 3 shots, then I would use that wet spit patch to clean the barrel. I'd follow up with at least 2 clean dry patches. Many shooters back then had the same problems regardless of lube so the routine of 3 shots then clean was common.
I've been that route with a .40 caliber Rice barrel and I used LeHigh Valley lube to clean and lube patches. That allowed me to shoot many shots without cleaning. Mr. Flintlocks lube is the closest thing I know of to LeHigh Valley and it works real good. For all practice I lube with Mr. Flintlocks.
You could try some and see if it helps. Won't hurt.
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Hello Everyone - I have been taught to run a wet patch (soapy water), followed by two dry patches after every 3rd shot. I am not sure why?
Maybe I can shed some light on the reason you were taught to do that. A few decades ago we didn't have some of the patch lubes and other items we now have. The patch lubes used often varied by the part of the country you were shooting in also. The first lube I was taught to use was "Spit", this lube is still used by a lot of shooters to this day and it is excellent at cutting black powder fouling.
Back then, in the early 70's, my main lube was "Crisco". My rifle shot tiny groups with this lube as long as I cleaned my rifle after 3 shots due to the fouling. Once the ball got hard to seat it was time to clean it. I kept a clean patch in my mouth through the first 3 shots, then I would use that wet spit patch to clean the barrel. I'd follow up with at least 2 clean dry patches. Many shooters back then had the same problems regardless of lube so the routine of 3 shots then clean was common.
I've been that route with a .40 caliber Rice barrel and I used LeHigh Valley lube to clean and lube patches. That allowed me to shoot many shots without cleaning. Mr. Flintlocks lube is the closest thing I know of to LeHigh Valley and it works real good. For all practice I lube with Mr. Flintlocks.
You could try some and see if it helps. Won't hurt.
You are right on the money! That brought back memories. My Dad & I would shoot his musket in the late 70s, early 80s. And he used Crisco. Drove my mother nuts. I do remember it smelled kind of nice.
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I have tried several commercial lubes to see how they perform with and without cleaning. In the drier western climate, the ball gets progressively harder to seat on the powder without swabbing the barrel. Also found that with greater resistance down the bore and pressure required to seat the ball, the shot to shot velocity became less consistent. For target shooting, the difference could have an effect on your score. For hunting, where you usually reload quickly and probably don't fire that many shots, the result likely would not be as critical. I have found Hoppes Number 9+ effective as a patch lubricant and for wetting cleaning patches, and usually swab between shots if time allows. I plan to experiment with TOTW Mink Oil to see how that would work in the no swab scenario with little humidity.
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Not trying to criticize anyone but unless you only shoot from a bench or trail walk why more tha 1 lube? If you took the time to develop that perfect lube, powder load, patch and ball why would you use a Mr. Flintlock, spit, or other when not hunting. Just use whatever lube you hunt with and shoot from the bag whenever possible. A lot of this sport is muscle memory, point of contact and repetition.
Again each to their own, not trying to criticize.
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Some people don't want a water base lube for hunting so they use something like tow mink oil for hunting and the water based lube for line shooting. If you shoot tefflon coated patching you are well advised to clean between shots. Some of the tefflon coated patching is the best patching for consistent shot to shot velocity and grouping ability so those bench, cross stix, and chunk gun shooters use it almost with out fail. I used it just for that reason in those types of rifles but do use a mix of TOW mink oil/bear oil for all other shooting and never have to clean between shots. I like my patching to be soaked clear through with no excessive gobs of lube on the patch surface.
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Not trying to criticize anyone but unless you only shoot from a bench or trail walk why more tha 1 lube? If you took the time to develop that perfect lube, powder load, patch and ball why would you use a Mr. Flintlock, spit, or other when not hunting. Just use whatever lube you hunt with and shoot from the bag whenever possible. A lot of this sport is muscle memory, point of contact and repetition.
Again each to their own, not trying to criticize.
I mostly agree with you. That is if all your guns are for hunting, and all other shooting done with them are practice for hunting.
I have two rifles that are dedicated target rifles and will never see a day out in the woods. Guns are kind of like golf clubs. Don't use a driver to putt.
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Alacran: I probably could have done a better job in writing my last post. I agree with you 100% if you have specialty rifles for specific purposes. I just have seen a tend with new shooters who seem to want to reinvent the wheel. It is a simple sport that can be taken to many levels of complexity based on your needs, disciplines of shooting, numbers of rifles and your ability.
Thanks for the thoughtful rebuttal on my post I for one appreciate it.
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I haven't had to wipe while shooting since that first year I started in this game in 1972/3. I guess I just learned quickly what it took
to shoot without fouling building up in the bore. I had help, indeed, I had help. Old Lester H. Hawkes of Walcot road (BC), formerly of
Kalispel Montana, taught me that wiping was not necessary if one used a decent patch and that the muzzle condition and shape was
instrumental in being able to load such combinations. He didn't go into details, just said "do it, you'll find what works and what doesn't".
This is a picture he took of 'the gang' at Kalispel in the early 50's.
What a guy. The gal in the middle of the picture, is Irene, Les' wife. She's holding a rifle Les did "some work" on.
(https://i.ibb.co/PrTrbQf/020-HAWKES-PHOTOS-020-1950-s.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fX8XKvP)
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Timeless picture!
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Hello Ranger,
I started out shooting by wiping between shots, as I learned from a target shooter. I did that for years, and always had troubles at intervals.
I read Daryl's method of wet-patching, and tried it. Being an engineer I like to know the "whys" of doing things. The wet patching really works, and makes sense. For hunting of course use mink oil so your powder charge does not get contaminated.
Thank you for serving our country sir. My dad was 82nd Abn and 16th SF in the '50s and '60s.
God Bless, Marc
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Hello Ranger,
I started out shooting by wiping between shots, as I learned from a target shooter. I did that for years, and always had troubles at intervals.
I read Daryl's method of wet-patching, and tried it. Being an engineer I like to know the "whys" of doing things. The wet patching really works, and makes sense. For hunting of course use mink oil so your powder charge does not get contaminated.
Thank you for serving our country sir. My dad was 82nd Abn and 16th SF in the '50s and '60s.
God Bless, Marc
DE OPPRESSO LIBER
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I’ve experimented with several lube recipes over the years.
TC Bore butter: Worked great, smells like sore muscle ointment (not good for hunting), messy and a PITA
Murphy’s oil soap, Hydrogen peroxide, Alcohol: Worked fine but I did not like the brown sludge from oxidation caused by Hydrogen peroxide. Same result substituting peroxide with Simply Green: Worked great but also had oxidation.
I’m now using just Murphy’s and alcohol successfully. When done I use Dawn dish soap and water, let it soak then run a brush up and down, drain, repeat.
I don’t wipe between shots and typically shoot 15 to 17 shots. I generously pre-lube my patches and store in a repurposed pill bottle. I place corn meal between powder and patched ball.
I love this sport! And having fun getting acquainted with with a flintlock after shooting a percussion for decades. YeHaw!
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Never wiped between shots, and not gonna start.
Recently shot a five day match, no wiping, no cleaning until the match was over.
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Mule Brain, you did not wipe the rifle over the course of 5 days of shooting? And the fouling in the bore did not cause issues when loading each morning?
I am starting to think my patches are too dry, not imparting enough lubricant on the bore while loading, and giving the fouling ideal conditions to stick to the bore and harden.
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Listen to Daryl!
Why would anyone want to do that much cleaning and wiping while shooting? Keeping the cleaning patch companies in business?
I’d rather just shoot, and clean at the end of the day.
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Jeff, and bones92, the condition of the muzzle is conducive to loading tight combinations - do a search here for muzzle crowning- that might help.
The smooth radius we make on the muzzle's crown, allows the ball and patch to conform into the lands and grooves. If there is no compression of
the ball by the patch, in the bottom of the grooves, the patch cannot clean the last load while you load the next one, and the fouling will build up,
shot to shot and the bore's condition will be in a state of change, every shot.
With a tight combination, the bore's condition remains the same after the first shot, though to the 100th shot, however shooting that many shots
will have a bit of a buildup in the breech, meaning you will not be able to seat the ball as deeply. The difference is usually only 1/4" & doesn't appear
to increase past that.
In Mule Brain's situation, a wet, tight patch allowed him to load the first shot the second through 5th day of shooting. I have done the same with my
14 bore rifle when using a .030" patch and .682" ball in the .690" bore. I usually fire the first shot of the day on a different target or gong as a "fouling"
shot. The second etc, of that day load identically. Only that first one is a big crunchy, but still loadable with the hickory rod. Well actually, it's osage now.
(https://i.ibb.co/ysvNjqG/IMG-2735.jpg) (https://ibb.co/w6Gdm43)
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Good info, gents. I think I will try a bit wetter patches, and maybe try something beside Ballistol. I also may try using pillow ticking versus the pre-cut patches I got from TOTW.
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Bones: Ballistol and water, ie: 1:5 through 1:10 ratio, is a great patch lube. But you have to soak the patches gently squeezing out the run-off. My patches are still almost dripping wet. I like water soluble oil and water for patch material in my pre-cut patches.
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Good info, gents. I think I will try a bit wetter patches, and maybe try something beside Ballistol. I also may try using pillow ticking versus the pre-cut patches I got from TOTW.
Patch thickness is where you get the "cleaning while loading" routine. A wet patch is, well, wet. Slightly damp or dry does not work for this, whether the lube is WWWF+oil, Windex, water, spit,
Mr. Flintlock's lube, Track's Mink Oil, Neetsfoot oil, LHV, Hornady's BP lube/cleaner or whatever. They all pretty much load the same with no wiping - IF, the ball and compressed patch combination at least come VERY close to the bottom of the grooves. In my .69 & .50, I can load continually without wiping, combinations that shoot just fine at close range, that show brown scorch marks on the recovered patches from each groove, yet they still clean the bore just fine while loading (with lighter loads). With a ball only .005" smaller than the grooves and an 8 ounce (.018/.019") denim patch, This type of shooting will occur. These combinations usually do not shoot as well at longer ranges such as 50yards and beyond & tighter combinations are needed.
The "ultimate" in accuracy is obtained by using even larger balls, bore size to .010" larger than the bore AND .015" or thicker patches. That's what the match & BR shooters use. These types of loads are too difficult to load with the rifle's rod, thus we try different combinations to find what ball size and patch thickness and lube works for us, that gives us the accuracy we want or can get by with, while using combinations we can load with the rifle's rod.
I believe we've found the combinations of muzzle condition, ball size and patching that gives very close to match-shooting results, but allows us to load relatively easily. Is this the last word on this dilemma, absolutely not, but we are satisfied with what we've found.
Not everyone has the same requirements or expectations in accuracy, ease of loading, or type of shooting. What works for us, might not work for you at all, but the accuracy & long shooting strings we get, comes from the ball/patch/powder combinations at which we have arrived.
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D Taylor Sapergia, I have been using straight Ballistol. Probably overly prone to drying out quickly.
I assume you mean 1 part Ballistol to 5 or 10 parts water? That would make sense.
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My goal is to not wipe between. Depending on the gun and scenario I have to swab every 4-5 to on my squirrel gun I’ve shot as many as 40 shots with no loss of accuracy and no swabbing and the 40th was as easy as the second. That’s perfection in BP shooting if you ask me.
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I feel the same way, Bob - no wiping needed.
Yes bones92 - Taylor, my bro, was referring to using those ratios of Ballistol mixed with water.
I've never tried it myself - still working on a gallon of WWWF with a bit of Neetsfoot oil added.
WWWF- is simply winter windshield washer fluid (-45F) with oil, "Bluethunder" only. I do not use the pink stuff as
it contains other chemicals than just water, alcohol and colouring.
I can buy a gallon of mixed fluid of water and alcohol cheaper than I can buy a pint of alcohol to mix my own.
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Very good. I will keep these suggestions in mind.
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Unless I'm using Teflon patching I don't like to clean between shots but I do like to clean between shoots. ;D :)
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I have read this post with interest. I shoot table and some over the log so I am shooting tight patch and ball combos with heavy loads. I and most of the ladies & gents always "wipe" between shots. Note I said wipe, not clean. All that is used is a spit patch, both sides, and one dry patch, both sides. Trying to keep the condition of the barrel as close as possible, not clean, on each shot is what is being attempted. "Cleaning" is for after the match is completed.
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Just a follow up...
We had our Fall Frolic at Lafayette Longrifles this weekend. I tried using much wetter patches, and using a Ballistol/water mix. Made a BIG difference. Never swabbed the bore till after I was done shooting. Loading next ball, even after the rifle sitting for 30 minutes, was not too bad.
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Bones: I always load my rifle as soon after my shot as I can, ie: powder and patched ball, BUT NO PRIME. That way, I don't have to deal with dried on fouling that would be best wiped out first. Some ranges may not permit this procedure.
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DTS, I agree... that would be ideal. When we call cease fire on the line, all arms must be completely unloaded. Still, the wetter patches worked quite well.
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As I read your initial question I thought about a situation I once had. I was using too tight of cleaning jag. Instead of pulling crud out with the cleaning patch, I was pushing it down into the breech plug face. Try a smaller diameter jag. It won’t need to be much smaller than what you’re using. Jerry
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I've wondered about that, as well, Jerry. Could probably chuck the jag in a power drill and run it holding a piece of sandpaper alongside the jag.
I've actually been thinking of a jag that is narrow going down and can expand at the bottom, thereby pulling all fouling out. I have a few ideas as to design. Simpler is better.
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Don't over-think this. Wiping is not necessary if you use a snug ball and patch combination with a fairly wet patch.
Even if the last shot's fouling has time to dry, it is still loadable.
For when it's time to clean the bore, we normally size the jag to allow a doubled cleaning patch, especially for cleaning
deep, rounded grooves.
Chucking in an electric drill and running it against a file, is preferable to running it against sand paper held in fingers,
which will round the corners needed for 'grabbing' the patch.
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Now here is one you may not have heard of. Some serious match shooters shoot, reload, THEN wipe the bore!!!!!! A brass brush with a patch stuck to it wipes above the ball!
Now it’s just possible that the guy showing me this was pulling my leg. But I think it’s an actual practice.
One thing to remember- if you have confidence in your technique and feel you have an advantage then you will shoot well. Whether hocus-pocus or not- if a shooter believes it will shoot better, it may.
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Rich: I have seen several shooters clean after loading before shooting. Some of the long range bullet muzzle loading shooters do with their Gibbs rifles.
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Rich.. at the old club where I shot; sadly long gone, all the old timers used a damp patch on the jag of the range rod to seat the ball. You need 10's and x's to beat those fellows. ;)
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Daryl, that's a good idea. I've tried using two patches before, but it's too tight. Slightly reducing the jag diameter to allow two patches with a nice, tight fit would be ideal.