AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: oldtravler61 on February 02, 2021, 01:49:55 AM
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Seeking advice on a lock for a bear pistol I'm building. The barrel is from Charlie Burton. He copied the one in Gillispies book.
First I don't want to do a percussion. But prefer flint. Would a late Ketland be ok..?
What do you guys who build pistols recommend. All other furniture I will make. This is starting out with a blank stock.
So it should be a fun build. Thanks in advance. Oldtravler
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This one works very well. L&R Bailes, but is closer to a Staudenhauer lock, I've been told.
The good thing about it, is the lock comes also in cap.
(https://i.ibb.co/TK5XZGF/45-Bl-English-Pistol-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5YVDd3f)
(https://i.ibb.co/vVnCg5d/IMG-2619.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BcMHdD6)
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You building it for a bear or to shoot a bear? I'm building a .54 cal pistol right now w/ 7" brrl. just for fun. wouldn't go after bear with it though. Rifle first pistol backup, maybe.
I'm using a Doc Hadaway flintlock. Your gun, use what you like!
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I used a Late Ketland lock on my bear pistol. The only modification I made was to round the tail of the lock. It fit well, and is in proportion to the long barrel. I would use it again if I built another one.
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The original Gillespie BP, by my great uncle Mathew, has a Golcher flintlock on it. I have an original Golcher flint on my un-finished pistol.
I have a modified late Ketland that I was going to use. Its modified to look like the original Golcher but the double throated cock is too short for the late Ketland frizzen. I have a correct Golcher frizzen from Reeves G. but found the original Golcher before I could modify it to fit.
Dennis
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I apologize, I didn't know a "bear pistol" was an actual thing, i.e., referring to an actual builder and school(local)of old. I thought it was just a nickname for any generic big bore pistol.
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That cock looks like the ones I used to get from Jerry Devaudreuil in Wooster,Ohio.
I made a fair number of the Ketland locks using these parts but I don't think anyone
else used them except as seen here. Most of them that I made were used on "flint
Hawken"rifles.
The L&R Bailes is VERY similar to the Nock that I had for a while.When Lynton McKenzie**
heard that I was working up a lock for a German flintlock pistol project he took the right hand
lock from a Nock double barreled shotgun and sent it to me so I could get an idea as to the
mechanism.I got the moulds for the lock I made from TOW in 1978 and used them for quite
a number of locks.They were I think,made by a man in Tennessee,Lester Smith.I used the
plate,cock and frizzen and the top jaw from the Shoults Ketland.The internal mechanism that
these moulds could produce were substandard and there was no reason the think about using
them.
These moulds are or were in Larry Zornes shop in Ohio and I don't know if he or Les Barber ever
made anything from them or not.
**I did not ask Lynton McKenzie to for any lock but I was one of the people he trusted and he pulled
the lock from the Nock gun and sent it to me for study.It was a BIG help as were the two fine Stanton
"4 pin"caplocks I used when I started making them in 1987.
Bob Roller
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I apologize, I didn't know a "bear pistol" was an actual thing, i.e., referring to an actual builder and school(local)of old. I thought it was just a nickname for any generic big bore pistol.
In my mind it is a southern made pistol that mountain hunters carried and used while bear hunting.
Mathew Gillespie was both a gunmaker and bear hunter. As far as I can tell the 15" barreled 54 cal flintlock, he made for himself, was the only pistol he ever made. He made and signed his pistol with his initials and the year 1846. What always stood out to me was, he being a full time gun maker, at least 20 years into the percussion era, chose to use a flintlock on a pistol especially made for HIS bear hunting. It shows his faith in the flintlock ignition system.
Dennis
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Thanks everyone for the info. Originally I had plans to make a short gun with the barrel. But always liked that bear pistol...So I'm going in that direction.
Plan on shooting a deer or two with it. Bear maybe...?
Dennis if I could find a good working Golcher I would . But it looks like the L-R Bailed might be the ticket.
Got four guns in the works now..! Actually might get one of them finished...lol
Thanks everyone. Oldtravler
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(https://i.ibb.co/svzY1M0/0107191406.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XZMR5vh)
Here is my Bear Pistol 50 cal.
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Shifty that is real close to my idea I have in mind. Only difference will be a rock lock instead. Nice looking pistol. Did yeah shoot that buck with it ?
Thanks for showing .. Oldtravler
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Shifty that is real close to my idea I have in mind. Only difference will be a rock lock instead. Nice looking pistol. Did yeah shoot that buck with it ?
Thanks for showing .. Oldtravler
No Sir, I have never got a shot at a Deer with it. Although i want to ,it will do the job i think barrel is 16" long , 50 cal ,1-48 twist ,50 grns 2F Goex, pillow tick patch Mink oil lubed , 3" or so group at 50yds with gun resting on my knees. I shot the buck with my 54 cal Leman, i used to be crazy over Hawkins but now i like Lemans better.
You should build you a Bear Pistol they are a lot of fun.
Have you considered a Small Siler lock?
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Just my .50 Cal flint pistol. 12" Dehass barrel. 50gr. FFF shooting a Hornady Pa. Conical, 240gr. Average MV is 939fps.
(https://i.imgur.com/mOxZA7Yh.jpg)
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Just my .50 Cal flint pistol. 12" Dehass barrel. 50gr. FFF shooting a Hornady Pa. Conical, 240gr. Average MV is 939fps.
(https://i.imgur.com/mOxZA7Yh.jpg)
I love it ,got some punch there !
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Its a .50 smooth bore.
(https://i.ibb.co/qBnpGrY/IMG-0072.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mJB4sc5)
Robby
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Its a .50 smooth bore.
(https://i.ibb.co/qBnpGrY/IMG-0072.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mJB4sc5)
Robby
Very nice pistol!! 8)
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Robby now that is one nice pistol...!!!! Oldtravler
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Robby what lock is on that pistol...? Oldtravler
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Its' the L&R small Manton, or Bails.
Robby
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Its' the L&R small Manton, or Bails.
Robby
The lock I made for the German project was the Bailes.The L&R small Manton has a
smaller pan and other than that there seems to be no real difference.
Bob Roller
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Here a couple of pictures of a bear pistol I made. 15" swamped barrel from Ed Rayl caliber 0.45 , small siler lock. Rest made from scratch.
Best regards
Rolf
(https://i.ibb.co/2NN7QCs/bottom1-zps3415ebc8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k11gfw9)(https://i.ibb.co/Xy8828b/bottom-zps03ddb93d.jpg) (https://ibb.co/N1SSVSs)
(https://i.ibb.co/PmGCN8x/CIMG0029-zps6f9cab8d.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gjZg3Cy)(https://i.ibb.co/gV9ZS2b/CIMG0030-zps05e9de17.jpg) (https://ibb.co/L5RdxFD)
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Here a couple of pictures of a bear pistol I made. 15" swamped barrel from Ed Rayl caliber 0.45 , small siler lock. Rest made from scratch.
Best regards
Rolf
(https://i.ibb.co/2NN7QCs/bottom1-zps3415ebc8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k11gfw9)(https://i.ibb.co/Xy8828b/bottom-zps03ddb93d.jpg) (https://ibb.co/N1SSVSs)
(https://i.ibb.co/PmGCN8x/CIMG0029-zps6f9cab8d.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gjZg3Cy)(https://i.ibb.co/gV9ZS2b/CIMG0030-zps05e9de17.jpg) (https://ibb.co/L5RdxFD)
Man this is Beautiful !!