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General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: jrb on February 11, 2021, 05:08:31 PM

Title: more on painted trade guns
Post by: jrb on February 11, 2021, 05:08:31 PM
i found this in a book by De Witt Bailey published in 1999, titled "British Board of Ordnance Small Arms Contractors 1689-1840."

                                                                             The Indian Fusils of 1710
"The next order for Indian gift fusils involved the same number, 400, and the same cost, 18/- each, but was divided amongst twenty five of the London contractors. (noted under names part 1) These guns again had 3' 10" barrels, but the stocks (wood unspecified but almost certainly beech) were to be 'painted and spotted according to pattern'.
This is the first mention of what came to be a common feature on Indian guns- the spotted stocks."


note from jrb, the words in the phrase 'painted and spotted according to pattern' are italicized in the book
Title: Re: more on painted trade guns
Post by: Not English on February 15, 2021, 06:48:58 AM
Interesting. I've always liked the idea of a painted trade gun. I've got a print of a couple of indian/long hunters showing one with a painted gun. I've been intrigued by it and some day hope to replicate it.
Title: Re: more on painted trade guns
Post by: Pukka Bundook on February 15, 2021, 09:25:36 AM
I red decades ago about trade guns with red painted and spotted white, and that they cost more than standard.
I can not tell you where I read this though.
Title: Re: more on painted trade guns
Post by: bob in the woods on February 16, 2021, 12:02:22 AM
Clay Smith of Williamsburg has a fair amount of info on the painted trade guns, and offers them for sale. I believe the collection at Colonial Wlliamsburg has a bunch of blue ones on display.
I've seen both  blue and red ones.
Title: Re: more on painted trade guns
Post by: ole188 on February 16, 2021, 05:26:47 AM
Are there any books currently in print that show any of these gun?
Title: Re: more on painted trade guns
Post by: Ats5331 on February 16, 2021, 05:29:37 AM
Interesting stuff here, I always saw a Fusil-de-Chasse displayed at Bushy Run Battlefield with red paint designs on it. Always thought it was neat looking but didn't know about the historical accuracy of it or that the makers did the painting...

Neat!
Title: Re: more on painted trade guns
Post by: Ats5331 on February 16, 2021, 05:37:13 AM
Interesting stuff here, I always saw a Fusil-de-Chasse displayed at Bushy Run Battlefield with red paint designs on it. Always thought it was neat looking but didn't know about the historical accuracy of it or that the makers did the painting...

Neat!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/Benjamin_West_005.jpg

Also, it's neat to see the painting trade gun in Benjamin West's the "Death of General Wolfe". If you can zoom in, you can see the red painting on the rifle.
Title: Re: more on painted trade guns
Post by: Shopdog on February 18, 2021, 01:52:16 AM
Here is a link to a trade gun in the Williamsburg collection that has a good image of the painted design on the stock
http://www.flintriflesmith.com/Antiques/bumford_tradegun.htm
Title: Re: more on painted trade guns
Post by: Marcruger on February 18, 2021, 11:36:22 PM
This has been beaten to death before, but my view is that the painter of ""Death of General Wolfe" was not at the battle, and it was painted some years later.  I personally do not trust that painted gun is correct, but will admit it is cool.  I wouldn't fault anyone for painting their gun that way. 
Title: Re: more on painted trade guns
Post by: Ats5331 on February 23, 2021, 03:55:26 AM
This has been beaten to death before, but my view is that the painter of ""Death of General Wolfe" was not at the battle, and it was painted some years later.  I personally do not trust that painted gun is correct, but will admit it is cool.  I wouldn't fault anyone for painting their gun that way.

I completely agree that Benjamin West was not present at the battle, however the painting was done in 1770, only 11 years after the battle of Quebec in 1759. What interests me, is that West must have seen painted trade rifles and made sure to put it in his painting. This could lead to the assumption that some painted trade guns could have looked like it.
Title: Re: more on painted trade guns
Post by: T.C.Albert on February 23, 2021, 09:38:30 AM
I believe Wolf had an extensive collection of similar items he used for his paintings.
Not sure if that gun is still or ever was in his studio collection, but it would be neat to find out.
T. Albert
Title: Re: more on painted trade guns
Post by: jrb on February 23, 2021, 04:28:38 PM
For what it's worth , here's another reference i recently came across on painted English to Indian trade guns.


(https://i.ibb.co/PtQxLTf/painted-florida-1778.png) (https://ibb.co/stHjf5M)