AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: smart dog on February 22, 2021, 02:45:59 AM
-
Hi,
I've been working on a pretty close copy of the Edward Marshall rifle for a friend and customer. It will not be a bench copy but as close as I can come without having the original in hand and using mostly commercially made parts. I have Houston Harrison's beautiful drawings of the gun and many detailed photos. Bob Lienemann, as always, has been particularly generous and helpful to me and so has Manfred Schmitz. To be honest, I was mostly ambivalent about the rifle for years. I always appreciated its significance but many makers have done versions and there are several kit versions. I was always attracted to the "other" guns from that era and place such as RCA 52 because hey were different and seldom copied. All that changed after seeing the actual gun and Bob Lienemann's photo essay in his book on Moravian gun making. I fell in love with the gun and that feeling has multiplied 100 fold as I build a copy. It is clearly the work of a European trained master gunsmith with all the good design and sophistication that implies. I am using the Rice barrel, trigger guard, butt plate, and ramrod pipes sold by Chambers for their EM kit. The barrel is 37" (13/16" shorter than the original) and 62 caliber. It is also smaller at the breech than the original so I had to make some adjustments in the stock to compensate. I am using a M&G "Albrecht" lock that I improved and modified extensively and posted previously. The stock is hard curly sugar maple cut from Vermont. Here is where I am at and I wanted to show how I modified set triggers to work with this project. First, here is the rifle at this point.
(https://i.ibb.co/nLgj6FB/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/W2xfGL0)
(https://i.ibb.co/Mgzp6xz/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cyWtLSW)
(https://i.ibb.co/yQs0Ws7/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RDH2zHd)
(https://i.ibb.co/Scjwd2p/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nBGMnTS)
(https://i.ibb.co/dPHfNgX/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/JQTswRr/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M6HCxDP)
(https://i.ibb.co/vJt1952/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/y8302TL)
(https://i.ibb.co/HxhpCFf/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/ygRvvXg/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SVxYYPV)
(https://i.ibb.co/qYnzdXT/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/s9Ph2k8)
As I build it, I appreciate more and more the gun maker who built the original. It is a very great design and handles extremely well. One tip I want to pass on to others is reduce the LOP a little to compensate for the thick wrist and large trigger guard. If you want a rifle to fit someone with normal LOP = 14" reduce that by 3/8". The trigger finger has to stretch around a lot of wood.
I am currently inletting the set triggers. They present a bit of a challenge because the trigger levers need to be tall to engage the sear. Most set triggers won't do and I ended up buying Davis triggers sold by Chambers for their EM kits. They would work but they are small and the levers short such that I would have to move LOP further back than I want or that specified by my plans to have any hope of a decent unset front trigger pull. I opted for a set of L&R Hawken triggers that had longer levers and were more robust.
(https://i.ibb.co/f0Z2t5d/tr-lr-1300-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dKXr6q4)
However, the two triggers are just too close together to mate with my design. No worries because it means I can get out my welder and my ball peen hammers, my favorite tools. Any day I can melt something with a welder and bash it with a ball peen hammer is a good day for me. So I took the triggers apart, annealed them, and then cut away at the back of the front trigger.
(https://i.ibb.co/CMpW8Wc/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SdDJyJj)
(https://i.ibb.co/wznm3sn/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
I heated the trigger and pried the cut wider and then back filled the gap with weld as well as adding metal here and there. The result was very good and meets my needs and looks much more historically correct.
(https://i.ibb.co/z7t45fM/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3MPCsh3)
More to come,
dave
-
Looks good. I regret not being able to get down Braintree way and talk with you/see this kind of stuff in person. Someday, post pandemic, perhaps.
Jordan
-
That is a very good solution to your trigger conundrum. Rifle looks good so far. What kind of welder do you use?
-
Hi Alacran,
I have an oxy-acetylene gas torch and mild steel welding rod. I'll case harden the triggers when done.
dave
-
Hi,
Been working on this gun for a while so I thought I would post some recent photos. I am enjoying making this rifle.
(https://i.ibb.co/Ky39PbQ/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZS9nk9P/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PMk7fkn)
(https://i.ibb.co/4pJpwmV/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VT3T0jq)
(https://i.ibb.co/vqsC6XL/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XLyfrYF)
(https://i.ibb.co/v3975Pv/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Pck7phz)
(https://i.ibb.co/JzX9CxZ/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/THzsrKy)
(https://i.ibb.co/M2qkpWy/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dWn461s)
(https://i.ibb.co/ggX0rYb/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MNjzgdy)
(https://i.ibb.co/59rGF2Q/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/rwL7Yck/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bKyWT21)
(https://i.ibb.co/0XxPh1v/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g7xszQh)
I've made many wood patch boxes and always secured the latch spring with a small wood screw. This time I want to just shape it into a chisel point and drive it into the end of the latch mortice. For those who do this, how far do you typically drive it into the wood? Do you prepare some sort of mortice in the end of the latch slot to partly receive the point or do you just drive it into the squared end of the slot? Do any of you burn it in? Thanks for the advice.
dave
-
Greetings Dave,
You really don't have to drive it in too deep. Or too steep of angle. Start a small starter slot for your chisel tip. The big tip that Ron Ehlert showed us was to support both sides of the box. We used a vice padded with leather but my new vice has a padding that came with the vice that works nicely. Hank
(https://i.ibb.co/g6Bh4Rh/20210313-163635.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GFbNH5N)
-
Hi Dave, Your Marshall build is looking great. I'm sure some more experienced builders will chime in, but on the few wood lids that I did, I did burn in the spring. I found it helps to drill a couple of 1/16" holes about 1/2" deep using the spring channel as a guide, to help things along with the burn as the wood above the spring retaining mortise is minimal and will split pretty easily(I found that out the hard way). I have a 4" long drill I found at the local hardware store that works well for this. I try to get the spring into the mortise 1/2 to 3/4" deep. Hope this helps.
-
Hello Dave , i think the rifle will be great and i'm looking forward to following the progress here !
Monty
M.Schmitz
-
So, when I've installed box springs that drive in, I've used the following process: Cut your slot in the box lid. Use a long 1/16" drill bit to drill either two or three pilot holes. Heat the spring tip and progressively burn the tip in. Stop a little shy of final position. I then have raised some burrs with a graver, applied a dab of epoxy and then tapped it home. With a little care it works well.
Jim
-
Hi,
Thanks for looking folks. Hank, Tommy, and Jim, thank you for the advice. I will use it when I am ready to hammer the latch home.
dave
-
Hi,
I would appreciate some input by folks familiar with the Edward Marshall rifle concerning some details. Below is a link to Jud Brennan's blog showing wonderful photos of the original rifle:
https://judsonbrennan.blogspot.com/2016/10/judson-jesse-and-david-brennan-travel.html
I am basing my project on my notes from viewing the original gun, Jud's photos, many other photos published by Bob Lienemann and George Shumway, and Houston Harrison's drawings. One problem with the drawings is that Harrison seems to add some details that are logical but not visible on the original rifle. For example, he shows the rear and front aprons of the lock and side plate moldings connecting on the bottom the stock. The photos of the original gun are not at all clear that the molding connected front and rear on the bottom. It appears to me more like an early pattern Brown Bess on which the front and rear aprons fade out without connecting. The other detail is I do not think there was any appreciable flat around the lock or side plate. We always ascribe those rounded surfaces to 200 years of wear but I do not think they existed on the original gun except perhaps as a hair line of flat. I would appreciate some thoughts and opinions.
dave
-
Don’t know if this helps or not, but here is the drawing and measurements of the original my grandfather drew. I posted the rifle here in the past. I have the foil impression rubbing also but I couldn’t get detail pictures with just a phone.
Mark Brier
(https://i.ibb.co/ThgsNKQ/195055-FF-4-CBD-4705-98-A6-66-FCDAB847-C3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7y1q0g3)
(https://i.ibb.co/SJKyVYN/B8-EDF804-11-EA-4-B2-C-BC60-1-B9101655-F69.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3k0dS61)
(https://i.ibb.co/0Yp7GwH/983491-C8-2-C3-C-4-ECE-955-D-FD8-E4667-F1-FA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BTHpC10)
(https://i.ibb.co/12mCgJj/0-E381-C50-7-EC4-416-D-971-D-454-FFD2-AC95-B.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F7DQrqC)
instagram photo downloder (https://500pxdownload.com/)
-
so nice to see people sharing such good information.
-
Mark,
Thank you. Tom's drawings are wonderful and very useful to me. Flinchrocket, look at the link I posted and click on the images, which will enlarge them. Brennan's photos are by far the most detailed I've seen and show the lock area clearly. I don't see any obvious connection between front and rear moldings. When Jud Brennan made his copy, he included nice, thin and crisp flats around the lock and side plate. I am not sure they existed on the original.
dave
-
Thanks Flinchrocket,
I agree, you can never have too many photos. Eric's scholarship concerning the gun is remarkable and fascinating.
dave
-
The photos of the original gun are not at all clear that the molding connected front and rear on the bottom. It appears to me more like an early pattern Brown Bess on which the front and rear aprons fade out without connecting. The other detail is I do not think there was any appreciable flat around the lock or side plate. We always ascribe those rounded surfaces to 200 years of wear but I do not think they existed on the original gun except perhaps as a hair line of flat. I would appreciate some thoughts and opinions.
dave
Dave,
It looks to me like the front and rear aprons were connected by an incised line continuing off the relief. It also appears that the flat areas around the lockplate were very thin. Thin flats around the lockplate combined with an incised line just beneath connecting the front and rear reliefs may also help to explain the chipping of the lock moldings along the bottom. The incised line would have made this area much more fragile. What do you think?
-
A number of years ago John Bivins did an article on the Marshall rifle.It was a very in depth study.
-
Google John and found an article where some one hit the high points on the evaluation of the Marshall rifle.I also googled Eric Kettenburg and he had a couple of articles on the Marshall rifles and other Moravian info from the Carolinas.
-
Hi Wayne,
Thank you so much for directing me to those resources. I read Eric's online article several times over the years and it is extremely helpful. I haven't seen Bivin's Muzzleblasts story about the Marshall rifle published in the 1980s. I was aware of it just never found a copy to read. Thanks again, Wayne and also thank you Flinchrocket and Clowdis. I decided on a plan after absorbing all your comments and input from Bob Lienemann. I am going to proceed to do something like the gun for which Flinchrocket provided a link, and incise a shallow line connecting the aprons on the bottom. Clowdis, I agree that the molding on the bottom of the original rifle contributed to the chipping and breaking in that area. It will create a somewhat fragile area on my version too. In fact, when moldings are rounded right up to the edge of the lock mortice as were many early original rifles and muskets, the edge of the lock mortice is more fragile than if a flat is established. However, I am trying to adhere to the original as closely as I can on this project. I am going to round the molding right up to the lock leaving no flat and then just before staining, I will swipe the top of the lock mortice and side plate panel with sandpaper backed by a flat piece of wood to create a tiny flat edge.
dave
-
Wayne,
Do you know what issue and year Biven’s Article on the Marshall rifle appeared? If we can find out the year and issue, all can look it up on the NMLRA website. Thanks.
elkhorne
-
I’ve got the article. Made a copy for Dave and will mail it tomorrow. August 1986 MB.
-
Thanks Rich!!! I stained the stock bright orange yesterday. The owner drops and loses things in the field so I figured a blaze orange gun would keep him from losing it' ;D
(https://i.ibb.co/K64KpnQ/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TcjWxyn)
Actually, it is part of my whiskering and clean up process and I scrape it all off. It shows up the rough areas nicely. Then I will detail the carving, stain and finish the gun.
Willow really likes snow. As it melts away she seeks out the last patches to lie down in.
(https://i.ibb.co/m6cLb0W/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xJ7pXYT)
dave
-
Interesting way to do this. Here’s mine with very similar carving.
(https://i.ibb.co/RT0Md88/14-C02-B64-6-E87-43-EE-A826-FD4235-C66149.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WvydjCC)
(https://i.ibb.co/d4J8dP1/0-E41-F730-FCC3-43-C8-A5-E1-DA026025-FB4-E.jpg) (https://ibb.co/chX4G6M)
-
Hi Wayne,
Is that the rifle Jud made for you?
dave
-
Yes sir. I was starting to see some striking similarities unfold!
-
Hi Wayne,
Do you suppose he painted your gun orange too? ;D
dave
-
One of the gunsmiths at Old Salem stains the stock yellow at that stage as he said it picks out any flaws. He claimed it was invisible once the gun was stained with nitric acid.
-
Hi Wayne,
Do you suppose he painted your gun orange too? ;D
dave
I would wager good money that he did. You can see that color in the background. When combined with whatever he used as his primary color, the results are very nice.
-
Hi Marc and Wayne,
I've used water based colors for years to highlight scratches and rough spots. The color does disappear when ferric nitrate is applied but most of the color is scraped off before. Sometimes I use pure black particularly on cherry and walnut. After scraping, it is still embedded in the grain and gives the final color an old mellow look. However, I sometimes I add layers of color. I test scraps of the maple with just ferric nitrate (aqua fortis) and sometimes the resulting colors are very monochromatic, meaning the figure highlights are just darker shades of the same red-brown color. Depending on my objectives, I may layer other colors like yellow, orange, and red, to gain more diversity and interest in the color of the wood.
dave
-
I’m a firm believer that there is every much skill in getting a desired color as many of the other tough tasks in getting these things right. There’s a lot of practice that goes into getting the color right in my shop. Imagine going through all of this work and then failing with the final steps. Rock on!
-
Hi,
I am carving the patch box lid. I still have to clean things up, even some shapes and add a few details including the thumb hole but it is almost done. The question, is it Santa, Rasputin, or perhaps, Mike Brooks.
(https://i.ibb.co/BjCjm3M/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
dave
-
Looks like Brooks to me, with a little more hair on his face. :o
-
Hi,
Finished the lid for now. I have to move on to the other carving.
(https://i.ibb.co/7Xgzzy8/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
I like it and I softened the edges of the carving to be a bit to be more like the original.
dave
-
Hi,
I finished the carving on the cheek side of the butt. I really admire how the maker created a complex image and feeling with very few and simple lines. It is like the best cartoonists who can capture the essence of a person or event with very few lines and details. To me, it is the sign of a true master. Anyway, on to the other areas and then I come back for final check up and detailing if needed, and then stain.
(https://i.ibb.co/qgb9PvR/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8xF2SHj)
(https://i.ibb.co/nkB7Qtf/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
dave
-
There is definitely something about that "negative" (in the good, artistic sense) space above the cheek piece set off by those two swooping arcs that speaks of elegant simplicity. It's like a stage curtain descending over the lower carving. I've looked at pictures of other folk's take on this rifle, and there is something about your rendition that seems to really capture it or set it off.
-
Hi Dave,
Thanks for the compliment. I think what you are noticing is I widened the incised line at the bottom of the curves, which gives the design a little more mass. I should clarify that is a slight departure from the original. There is another feature in my carving that is a mistake relative to the original. Note that the main stem of the leaf and scroll design exiting the upper right end of the cheek piece dips down a little before forming the leaves and scrolls. If you look at the carving Stoner Creek showed above by Jud Brennan, that stem does not dip and stays fairly high or thick right into the leaf designs. IMO there is nothing wrong or unattractive with the way I carved it but it is a departure from the original gun. It resulted from me not leaving enough wood thickness at that point as I final shaped the cheek piece. Basically, I initially misinterpreted my photo images of the carving. This is why having the original in hand is so valuable. Again, thanks Dave and I'll be posting more soon.
dave
-
Hi,
Finished the lid for now. I have to move on to the other carving.
(https://i.ibb.co/7Xgzzy8/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
I like it and I softened the edges of the carving to be a bit to be more like the original.
daveThat viking cartoon guy, is it Hagar ?
-
Well, I thought it was Mike Brooks, but the head wasn't big enough. Maybe Sandy Claws?
Really fine job on all the carving, including the patchbox lid. Was the "head" intentional, or merely a product of the design elements?
I keep yellow aniline dye on the shelf for the same purpose that you use the orange. It really show up scratches and such, but is easily removed by sanding and/or scraping. And as mentioned above, it disappears under the alcohol stains used more traditionally.
Wish I had your ability with the carving tools.
-
Dave, the carving is looking great! Awesome job.
Curtis
-
Dave I think you are making a really fine interpretation of this rifle. Working from photos is very challenging and you have done an excellent job in capturing the work of another man. I have been looking at the photos of this gun on the December issue of Muzzleloader' The details that you mention that deviate from the original are only evident if they are pointed out as you have.
Looking forward to see the final finish.
I really like the Honey tones of the original.
-
Hi and thanks everyone,
Alacran, I like that honey color too. I think I am going to try and copy it as far as I can. I have plenty of scrap wood to experiment with.
dave
-
Hi,
Finished the carving on the patch box side of the stock and then the breech. The breech carving on the original gun looks fairly simple at first glance but when you look closely, it is complicated and sophisticated. It looks to be done by a European trained master. I have the rear ramrod pipe carving to do and then final check up and clean. Adding a few incised details and then stain.
(https://i.ibb.co/GcDxm0g/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/NYq17Ks/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/d22DWkS/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/84Sf409/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XkvKkbt)
-
Hi,
Finished the carving, cleaned up the stock, stained it and then applied my first coat of finish.
(https://i.ibb.co/ysVskRG/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/WHyF01z/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b6BLFnv)
dave
-
Looking good! Great color too.
-
smart dog, Nice work. I especially like the proportions of your carving. Good project! Jerry
-
I love the tang carving. Just fantastic! Can I offer my thoughts on a small detail with the box?
Jim
-
Hi and thanks for looking folks,
I am really enjoying making this rifle. We are having warm dry weather great for drying stocks so I should finish this one up pretty soon.
Jim, I would be happy to have your comments. You often see details that I missed.
dave
-
Hey Dave. Sorry for the delayed response. Anyways... maybe it's my eyes, but I wonder if the box is pointing upward a bit more than the original? Something minor for sure, but sometimes catches my eye.
Jim
-
You've done a beautiful job on it. Color pics of the original show a light golden stain all over, so I wouldn't go any darker. But it is your rifle so whatever you want. Jud's creation is darker but still looks incredible!
-
Hi Jim,
Thanks buddy for the comment. The nose is centered on the carving and the rear placed top to bottom in proportion with the original (the butt plate is a tiny bit shorter than the original). But the final stock dimensions deviate a little from the original mainly because of adapting the stock to the owner. The original is too straight for him so I had to add drop. I think that might affect the positioning of the box lid relative to the original.
Hi Tim,
I really tried to get that light honey butter color and thought I had the right mix of ferric nitrate on scrap wood from the stock. When I did the stock, it looked terrible! Very little of the reds showed after blushing. So I hit it with lye water and out came the color and off I go. Unfortunately, the oil varnish finish darkens it a little more. I suspect that honey butter look on the original is augmented by 260 years.
Thanks for looking and commenting.
dave
-
Hi,
It is finally done. It was a real adventure but I sure love the rifle. I finished it with polymerized tung oil and some light glazing with bone black. I also tarnished the barrel and brass a little. I left some chatter marks from the final scraping and basically attempted to make it look like a product of the 18th century. Now I have to shoot it a bit before handing it over to its owner.
dave
(https://i.ibb.co/47nnTdj/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3799Nz0)
(https://i.ibb.co/J5TT9FY/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4PLLHgb)
(https://i.ibb.co/vmSsmXz/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Mpm8pBN)
(https://i.ibb.co/DtSSgBf/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qdPPFHY)
(https://i.ibb.co/NW17Tw0/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ss5tWLT)
(https://i.ibb.co/SyzQj12/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2hT89Lw)
(https://i.ibb.co/h2vb6dw/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3SH23FQ)
(https://i.ibb.co/vHCHSvn/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZVRV01D)
(https://i.ibb.co/vHMxHrq/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G0rv01p)
(https://i.ibb.co/drvnpp8/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NsqwNNc)
(https://i.ibb.co/XtJNgDV/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qp1XfCx)
(https://i.ibb.co/p2wqQc0/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/R2b8Nfv)
(https://i.ibb.co/CBrFBnv/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/K61H697)
(https://i.ibb.co/Th8vxs9/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ggTjLxk)
(https://i.ibb.co/r3bjPPZ/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
-
Beautiful rifle. ;)
-
I might have a problem letting go of that piece!
-
That's gorgeous on all accounts, Dave.
-
You rocked it, for sure.
-
Dave,
A fine, fine looking piece!
-
Dave, that is a beautiful gun -- stunning to me is probably more accurate. I could not let that one go if it were mine.
Dave
-
Real nice Dave. And I do hope you get to shoot it some before it goes. Just not today. Better weather Saturday ;D
-
Really nice work Dave. I love this rifle. But I'd have had to move that rear sight forward about 3 1/2". This is a real hunter's rifle!
-
Dave, thanks for taking us along on this special journey back in time! Bob
-
Great work all around Dave!!!!!!!
Mitch
-
Hi,
Thank you all. Please don't hesitate to critique it. I did my best but I can always improve. I was initially ambivalent about building the rifle because so many other folks had made versions, Jim Chambers makes a nice kit, and of course there is the spectacular version by Jud Brennan. I felt about it like I do Isaac Haines guns. You know, so many have done them what can I possibly contribute to the milieu. Well, a year ago a client asked me to build his Chambers Haines kit and try to make it as close to the iconic original housed in the PA State Museum as I could. So I dug into it deeply and WHOA!! Haines could carve as well as any European master and he wasn't a bad engraver either. So I made that gun a historical adventure and loved the project. Then along came the Marshall rifle and as I dug into the details I really was enthused. Then I saw the fantastic photos of the original posted by Jud on his blog and by Bob Lienemann in his latest book. I was hooked. There were so many challenging historical details to think about. So off I went and I had a lot of help. Jud's detailed photos of the original gun are essential and so are those published by Bob. I benefitted greatly from insightful e-mails with Bob. I also had previously visited the Mercer Museum and took notes on the original gun plus Mitch Yates sent me his measurements of the rifle. With all that help, I think I did OK despite not having the original rifle in hand. I really like this rifle a lot. It shoulders and feels like the best late flint English rifles and that is the highest praise I can bestow.
dave
-
Absolutely wonderful! I love everything about this gun from the entry swell to the finish. Great work Dave.
-
Sweet!
Curtis
-
Such a great rifle. Quite inspirational and your write - ups are great for those of us trying to learn.
-
Hello smart dog, very nice rifle and you did a great job all and a great finish too !
Monty
-
Dave yours is one of the finest interpretations of this rifle I have seen. I really like the color. You are right about the 260 year old patina. Makes one wonder if the original was stained at all.
-
Great job, Dave! Did you use Ferric Nitrate to stain? Am curious as to any particular technique for the color. Again, very nice rifle! Best,
Ed
-
Hi Ed,
It was an awful experience. I wanted to reproduce the honey color of the original. So I tried various dilute solutions of ferric nitrate even going as far as 20 parts water to 1 part ferric nitrate. On scrap wood from the stock, I finally thought I had it just right. So I painted the stock and let it dry. When I heated it the blush looked like magenta spray paint very thinly applied on gray wood. It was horrible! No amount of heating increased the red brown color. Rather than take a gun and blow out what little brain I had left, I decided to try lye water. BOOM! A beautiful reddish brown resulted. It was not exactly what I wanted but I was so happy I saved the color, I did not care. I think the color of the Marshall rifle is partly the result of 260 years of aging.
dave
-
YOUSER! That turned out just right! What a beautiful early rifle!
-
My only critical point, is the wide lands, narrow grooves.
Good work, Dave.
-
Nicely done,
Jeff
-
Hi,
Thank you all for the comments and interest. I worked hard on this gun and am happy with the way it turned out. Thanks Alacran and Flinchrocket. I really tried to match the original, which I believe has no artistic or design flaws. It was made by an 18th century master. I had to compromise on some dimensions because my barrel was 1.125" at the breech and the original was 1.23" at the breech. It is interesting to me that the slight reduction in dimensions at the wrist and breech on my version correspond exactly to the difference in breech dimensions. What that means is I matched the proportions of the original well. Let me add one more observation: imagine how the usual locks used for this rifle with their curved, almost banana shapes change the whole gun. Again, thank you all for your interest and comments. I appreciate them very, very much.
dave
-
Thanks, Dave..., does sound like an experience! Great save, I can’t say with any confidence that I would have thought of the lye. Thumbs up! Best,
Ed
-
Beautiful rifle Dave, excellent craftsmanship all the way around.
-
Hi,
Thanks for the posts everyone. I appreciate all your interest, comments, and help. Well it shoots! I handed off the rifle to the owner today. I set up my shooting bench and range and tested the gun at 50 yards. I have a laser bore sighter that almost always gets the shots on paper before actually shooting the gun. However, I was sure the front sight was high and that my first shots would be very low. So I aimed at 12 o'clock on the paper. The result was no hole anywhere. I shot again with same hold and no hole! So I loaded up, walked to 25 yards and shot offhand. The shot was 12 o'clock in the nine ring! So I went back to the bench at 50 yards, held at 6 o'clock on the black and proceeded to put 5 shots into the 10 and 9 rings. The owner came over and I loaded him up. His first shot was a ten touching the X. His second, third, and fourth shots were 10s and 9s. I fired 2 offhand and they were 3 and 4 o'clock in the 8 and 7 rings and the owner fired 2 and they were 2 o'clock in the 7 and 6 rings. There was a strong wind blowing left to right that made off hand shooting a challenge. Anyway, he probably won't have to work very hard zeroing in the rifle. The load we used was 85 grains 2F powder, 0.020" thick patches lubed with Ballistol and water, and 0.595" balls. He went home a very happy man. He will be ready for our first woods walk next weekend. I urged him to shoot at 100 yards before making any changes. I suspect that with dead on hold , he may be in the black without doing anything to the sights. But you have to shoot at 100 yards to really see how good your load and sighting is. Twenty-five yards tells you nothing, 50 yards gives you some idea, but 100 yards reveals all. The rifle shoots like a dream. It handles and feels exactly like a heavier version of a fine English rifle. Recoil is straight back into your shoulder. I tried a round using 100 grains of 2F and it was very comfortable plus the muzzle barely moved upward allowing me to follow through on sighting very well. This will be a superb hunting rifle and it only weighs 8 lbs 6 ounces.
(https://i.ibb.co/hVfB79F/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DQp9VWf)
dave
-
Well done, Dave. The load you chose to start with, .005" undersized ball and .020" patch with 85gr. 2F is a combination
that works from .50 to .69, proved by mine & Taylor's shooting over the years. Will it shoot at 100? That's the question
isn't it. Time will tell. It does work fairly well in the .50 and my .69 - so?
-
Dave
I am humbled by your work but it is an inspiration for me to keep at it. I am thankful for your thoughtful insight and answers to the problems I have posted in the past. The rifle looks like it just came back from the walking purchase trip. The new owner will be very proud to carry this rifle. Awesome work!
Peter