AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: Clint on March 01, 2021, 04:35:59 AM
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The Soddy rifles have become a popular topic, lately and a lot of people are interested in those rifles.There don't seem to be an over abundance of them and poor yankees like me will probably miss the opportunity to examine one or measure. It would be great if some of our collectors could photo the important aspects of some Soddy rifles so us builders can avoid embarrassing our selves in trying to replicate one or two of these distinctive guns.
R/S Clint Wright
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Clint Bob McBride on here has a couple videos on U tube featuring a couple custom Soddies. Their are no doubt others in here.
If you get Randal Pierre book on SMR guns. Their is an original with all the measurements on it.
I'm in the process of building one now.
Getting the butt plate correct an the butt stock correct is a challenge. Well at least for me.
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I'm far from an expert but I'll give it a stab based on my observations and what I consider to be stereotypical traits. There are 2 examples in the library. The most prominent thing to me is the cheekrest area. It sort of flows from an apple shaped wrist. The wrist is fatter at top and sort of flat across the top. More like an upside down triangle. The butt is diamond shaped with a very deep crescent shape to the buttplate. The upper forearm is Vee shaped. Most times a long flat straight tang.
I can't pass up a chance to bring up this stamp again. I have seen it on at least 5 Soddy guns that I do not believe were by the same maker.
Cheers,
Ken
(https://i.ibb.co/r471bDs/Soddy-6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Qrb18yd)
(https://i.ibb.co/YLcrx2b/Soddy-11.jpg) (https://ibb.co/71n9qvb)
(https://i.ibb.co/31f1pWr/Soddy-7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PxTxc4m)
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Ken, I’ve seen it on at least two rifles.
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From a layman’s viewpoint, they are the most extreme of the schools, the most radical, the biggest change from the Pennsylvania gunsmiths. How did the extreme crescent buttplate evolve? Was it for looks? Did the region adapt the different more oblique offhand stance? Did it double as a pitchfork?
Most southern mountain rifles of the era exude elegance. The Soddy goes past into an adjective not in my vocabulary.
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Here's one that sold at auction in 2018. 50 inch barrel in .54 caliber
Plain target rifle from the Soddy-Daisy school in southeast Tennessee. This example features a heavy octagonal steel target barrel with sights mounted on top, a partially visible signature on top, in script, and shaped long barrel tang. Flat stamp-engraved flintlock lockplate stamped "JOHN KIRKMAN / NASHVILLE" in center and features a reinforced cock and roller frizzen. Deep crescent shaped steel buttplate typical of this school and steel triggerguard, ramrod ferrules, and nosecap. The rifle has double set triggers. Plain full-length walnut stock of familiar Soddy-Daisy Tennessee form with narrow and pointed comb and a uniquely carved relief cheekpiece that extends into the wrist. The rifle is in very good condition overall. Barrel retains a dark brown patina with some light edge wear and corrosion at breech. Lock is in original flintlock configuration and retains a brown patina, some wear to markings and frizzen is a replacement. Stock is excellent with a few light scattered marks from use and some horizontal age cracks on forend. This is a fine example of a scarcely seen Tennessee target rifle.
(https://i.ibb.co/Vq4hHjH/image.png) (https://ibb.co/pLFsW0W)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZMSLByT/image.png) (https://ibb.co/5RkMrqc)
(https://i.ibb.co/V23xvhs/image.png) (https://ibb.co/5B2k5zP)
(https://i.ibb.co/gPTcxPC/image.png) (https://ibb.co/Tb8Nsb5)
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Thanks for the pics and info, Dan. These are indeed in a class by themselves. Best regards, Dave F 8) 8)
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The Log Cabin Shop has a detailed Soddy Daisy print just for builders.
Its about five bucks.
T Albert
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Thanks for the pics and info, Dan. These are indeed in a class by themselves. Best regards, Dave F 8) 8)
Thanks Dave, the pictures I posted can be clicked on and enlarged. These Soddy rifles have a lot of variation in them. This one has a lollipop tang and even though the auction site listed a steel butt plate all it really has is a steel toe plate with a corresponding plate on the comb, there is no steel on the inside curve.
The best pictures of this rifle are on the Morphy Auctions website. Here's a link if someone want's a super closeup of the details.
https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/lot-280515.aspx
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The Log Cabin Shop has a detailed Soddy Daisy print just for builders.
Its about five bucks.
T Albert
Yep I bought a set which I'm happy with. Even more variation can be seen in the details like the lock moldings, it does have some nice cross sections shown. I measured the barrel on the print and found it's a 42" x 7/8" x .40 caliber.
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Soddy chunk gun from my collection. Attributed to Enoch Hardin
(https://i.ibb.co/qgDxrpH/1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jw8HrDC)
(https://i.ibb.co/FwDdDfg/2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6PWqWpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/30g7jTc/3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Bg0tQfB)
(https://i.ibb.co/xJt3CpJ/4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r4Rv7C4)
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cshirsch,
Thanks for the pics. Nice example. Any chance you can share a picture of the tang and buttplate cross section?
Thanks,
Ken
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cshirsch,
Thanks for the pics. Nice example. Any chance you can share a picture of the tang and buttplate cross section?
Thanks,
Ken
I'll try to take some photos today.
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(https://i.ibb.co/nwSK9kQ/5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sgrXn3s)
(https://i.ibb.co/Jz4tfgq/6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/30qdDQv)
(https://i.ibb.co/PYmvP4m/7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1nvtPKv)
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Thank you sir. Really nice rifle. Thanks for sharing with the group!
Ken
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Soddy chunk gun from my collection. Attributed to Enoch Hardin
(https://i.ibb.co/qgDxrpH/1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jw8HrDC)
(https://i.ibb.co/FwDdDfg/2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6PWqWpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/30g7jTc/3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Bg0tQfB)
(https://i.ibb.co/xJt3CpJ/4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r4Rv7C4)
Quite the lock panels on this one!
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;) ;)... This is a Soddy area match rifle made by John Clements Jr. of Hamilton Co. TN,... circa 1860-1880 ... well loved and cared for and can still be used in matches,... has a tang site (removable) added by a later shooter,... has the flat muzzle rest behind the nosecap for a rest on the chunk,... Soddy match rifles are much longer and heavier built than the two hunting rifles I have seen, which have the same, but scaled-down lines, that gives them that unique "Soddy" look,...CCF
(https://i.ibb.co/8MwRPW2/thumbnail-4-LI.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F61f8SJ)
(https://i.ibb.co/34yjL50/thumbnail-1-LI.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jbvQ19L)
correct json online (https://geojsonlint.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/h1XpR6g/thumbnail-LI-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fG8mYgX)
(https://i.ibb.co/3SFRk11/thumbnail-2-LI.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CV9PWBB)
(https://i.ibb.co/GVrxpxR/thumbnail-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Q6xbQbM)
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;) ;)... This is a Soddy area match rifle made by John Clements Jr. of Hamilton Co. TN,... circa 1860-1880 ... well loved and cared for and can still be used in matches,... has a tang site (removable) added by a later shooter,... has the flat muzzle rest behind the nosecap for a rest on the chunk,... Soddy match rifles are much longer and heavier built than the two hunting rifles I have seen, which have the same, but scaled-down lines, that gives them that unique "Soddy" look,...CCF
(https://i.ibb.co/8MwRPW2/thumbnail-4-LI.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F61f8SJ)
(https://i.ibb.co/34yjL50/thumbnail-1-LI.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jbvQ19L)
correct json online (https://geojsonlint.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/h1XpR6g/thumbnail-LI-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fG8mYgX)
(https://i.ibb.co/3SFRk11/thumbnail-2-LI.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CV9PWBB)
(https://i.ibb.co/GVrxpxR/thumbnail-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Q6xbQbM)
That's a fine looking Soddy! I just pulled mine down in the shop and checked the bore. It is nice and I plan to see how it shoots. The small longrifle shooting club I shoot with is planning a 2 or 3 days over the log shoot. I really want to use my Soddy in the match.
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CCF,
Is this some sort of carved molding?
Thanks,
Ken
(https://i.ibb.co/P4TW0z3/Inked-Screenshot-2021-03-01-144040-LI.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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:) :).. Ken,... yes, and the unique "fish belly" under the lock area is interesting, too,...
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Thanks. That's pretty dang cool. Thanks for sharing.
Ken
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Ken, I think what you've circled in red is just light reflected from the forearm of the rifle. CCF is referring to the molding around the gun lock. James Levy
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Great thread for us Soddy lovers. Thought I would share a couple of buttplate shapes. Some are very pronounced diamond. I believe someone shared one on the board a while back that was very diamond shaped on the left but more of a gentle curve on the right?
Anyone seen brass on a Soddy or inlays of any sort? Surely there is a fancy one out there somewhere.
Cheers,
Ken
(https://i.ibb.co/Gt7vhgF/KONICA-MINOLTA-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/WcgKmpz/Soddy-Buttplate.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mH6zfFy)
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Cades Cove Fiddler, you have a PM.
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I’ve seen the toe plate pinned to the buttplate before, but have always wondered how difficult it is to do with steel. I would think that there is a chance of breaking off a chuck of wood at the toe when hammering that pin.
Bob
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I am strongly considering shooting my Soddy chunk gun at a multiday 'over the log' shoot in SE Texas in a few months. I checked the bore and it is smooth inside with good rifling. It has a recycled, tapered and flared (swamped) .44 caliber barrel that is quite heavy.
(https://i.ibb.co/cXwQfDn/1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Tq1tjm3)
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Ken G., I am baffled, why would anyone consider collecting these rifles?
They are ugly as sin and typically too heavy to have good purpose. I mean every aspect of these rifles is just wrong.
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>:( Now Angus, you take that back! Not every aspect is wrong. When you lean one against a tree, that pointed buttplate digs right into the dirt and it stays leaning against the tree. They didn't used to have fancy gyms so a 12 lb. rifle helped to build up their popeye muscles.
Good to see you posting! Did you finish up that Soddy log gun you were building?
Ken
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Still in progress. Mental roadblock. Got any good advice if you have seen tricker guard finials that are pointed rather than full round?
But had fun hammering out another barrel at Uncle Bookie's. Somewhere's around 5 hours from flat to welded tube. 20 degrees outside, 120 degrees inside the shop. I was down to T shirt and sweatin'. Timmy timed me; fluxed, out of the fire, hammered and back in around 40-50 seconds. Strike while it's hot. Missed seeing you there.
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PM sent. You should post some barrel welding photos over in gun building. I'm sure lots of folks would like to see the process.
Cheers,
Ken
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I know a guy who found one at a yard sale.
Tim
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Yep, I heard it had the bag, horn and contents with it. You just never know where them Soddy's will show up. ;)
Ken
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I pulled the barrel off mine to check the bore and, although it is nicer than many, it is not really good enough to shoot well. Too bad, I looked forward to giving it a try.
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Did it show signs of being shortened and reused? Mine apparently was cut off and moved back.
Ken
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Great thread for us Soddy lovers. Thought I would share a couple of buttplate shapes. Some are very pronounced diamond. I believe someone shared one on the board a while back that was very diamond shaped on the left but more of a gentle curve on the right?
Anyone seen brass on a Soddy or inlays of any sort? Surely there is a fancy one out there somewhere.
Cheers,
Ken
(https://i.ibb.co/Gt7vhgF/KONICA-MINOLTA-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/WcgKmpz/Soddy-Buttplate.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mH6zfFy)
Ken,
I have personally examined one Soddy rifle that was all brass mounted. Interestingly, the trigger guard was still the typical Selvedge Soddy style despite being fashioned from brass. The barrel was signed by both John Selvedge and his son in law Meredith Wolf.
Adam
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An all brass Soddy would be something pretty special to see! Thanks for sharing the existence. Sure would like to see some pics of that trigger guard.
Thanks again,
Ken
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Some really nice Soddy Daisy rifles shown here . Are there any original examples know of Soddy Daisy rifles in caliber's larger than .45 ?
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Some really nice Soddy Daisy rifles shown here . Are there any original examples know of Soddy Daisy rifles in caliber's larger than .45 ?
Yes there was an original Soddy sold at auction in 2018. It had a 54 caliber barrel and still in original flint condition. I posted pictures and a link to it on another thread here on ALR.
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Thanks Daniel . I looked it up that's a dandy .