AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: Big Bubba on April 14, 2021, 01:24:29 AM
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To start with this rifle is a blast to shoot. A lot more fun than my .50 cal hawken, of course after watching one of Bob's videos, it was probably how I was putting that curved but on my shoulder. The target on the right I shot at 10 times (@ 25 yards). The first shot was standing, don't know where that went. The rest were leaning across the back of the truck and I jerked one of those. Did not have to swab it until about the 8th shot. After blasting away at the first target, Took my time and watched my breathing and shot the target on the left. Called it a day after that, because I probably wasn't going to do that twice in a row. Loaded with .45 grains Olde E using a .010 patch with minks oil. Need to build me a bench before I start working on accuracy loads.
(https://i.ibb.co/VNMyQYJ/IMG-0209.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KGVZLxb)
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Good times trying out a new rifle. I think you will find that a thicker patch will shoot better with less fouling too.
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Careful shooting off the truck. Saw a guy blow the mirror off the passenger side one time! LOL ;D
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Careful shooting off the truck. Saw a guy blow the mirror off the passenger side one time! LOL ;D
One of them "hold my beer" moments!
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"Good times trying out a new rifle. I think you will find that a thicker patch will shoot better with less fouling too."
Yes, today was fun. I do have several different thickness patches to try. With the .010 patch it was going down really easy. I plan to try the different thickness patches when I build me a bench. Thanks.
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A tighter load will close up those groups. With my Kibler for general shooting offhand at NMLRA targets I use a .440 ball and a .018 ticking patch lubed with either spit, moose milk or Mr. Flintlock lube. These will go in the black if I do my part. But for shooting at a small "X" at 25 yards to score at a meat shoot I use 40 gr of Goex, a .445 ball and .022 canvas patch lubed with Mr. Flintlock lube. Need a mallet to get the load started but goes down smoothly.
(https://i.ibb.co/0QN94t5/Turkey-shoot-again.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rvPp8s9)
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My Kibler Rifle likes a .445 Hornady Roundball, .020 patch with Mr. Flintlock Lube and 50 grains of Olde Ensford 3F. I don't have any trouble with loading it even after shooting about 20 shots.
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My Kibler Rifle likes a .445 Hornady Roundball, .020 patch with Mr. Flintlock Lube and 50 grains of Olde Ensford 3F. I don't have any trouble with loading it even after shooting about 20 shots.
Glad you are happy with your rifle, Big Bubba. You could/should be a LOT happier.
Both Bob Hatfield and Don Adams are spot-on for loading. My suggestion, big bubba, is to convert any sheet .010" into handkerchiefs for blowing your nose into.
As a patch material, they suck.
A nice smoothly radiused muzzle crown does a long way to providing for easy loading just such a combination.
Muzzle on the left is a GM .45. It is less than 1/8" deep- just a nice, smooth curve. This allows the patch and ball to conform into the rifling, then it goes down easily with
the rifle's rod. Send me a PM with your e-mail address and I will send back a short video of loading that rifle.
(https://i.ibb.co/cFsqNyz/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wW2tKdD)
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A tighter load will close up those groups. With my Kibler for general shooting offhand at NMLRA targets I use a .440 ball and a .018 ticking patch lubed with either spit, moose milk or Mr. Flintlock lube. These will go in the black if I do my part. But for shooting at a small "X" at 25 yards to score at a meat shoot I use 40 gr of Goex, a .445 ball and .022 canvas patch lubed with Mr. Flintlock lube. Need a mallet to get the load started but goes down smoothly.
(https://i.ibb.co/0QN94t5/Turkey-shoot-again.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rvPp8s9)
Thanks, Bob.
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Careful shooting off the truck. Saw a guy blow the mirror off the passenger side one time! LOL ;D
There was a guy in a hunt club around here that got kicked out when he shot the windows out of his own truck leading a deer.
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First 7 shots out of a Rice/Kibler SMR. 50g FFFg, .445” ball, .020” patch, before sight adjustment.
(https://i.ibb.co/t3ZWZyk/13-BF318-C-25-C4-4-EFD-9-DBB-B616394845-A3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FnsjsGN)
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First 7 shots out of a Rice/Kibler SMR. 50g FFFg, .445” ball, .020” patch, before sight adjustment.
(https://i.ibb.co/t3ZWZyk/13-BF318-C-25-C4-4-EFD-9-DBB-B616394845-A3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FnsjsGN)
Very nice shooting. Was not sure what to expect with mine, since this is my first flintlock rifle. Have a flintlock pistol that I built from a cheap kit 40 years ago. Because of the delay when firing, could not hit a barn with that, even if I was standing in the barn. Haven't shot that pistol in about 40 years now. Don't have those issues with this rifle (it's fast), just need to use try the thicker patches. Went out in the yard looking for my shot patches this morning and found only peices. Good news those .010 patches should make good cleaning patches for my rimfire.
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Big Bubba, listen to Daryl, Smylee and Bob. My rifles have been given the smooth crown treatment allowing me to use .024" canvas patches. They go down very easily with every reload for as long as I want to shoot; never have to swab the bore. A short starter is still used to get the prb started into the muzzle but seating the prb is just so easy.
And Daniel, I had a hunting friend for many years who did something similar. A doe trotted by him one day when we were hunting and he shot at it and missed. Then he got to thinking, "Hmmm... I think that's the direction where my truck is parked; naaa, no way I..but I'll just check anyway". Well he did check and both the passenger side and driver's side windows were shot out. I don't think he ever lived that down.
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And Daniel, I had a hunting friend for many years who did something similar. A doe trotted by him one day when we were hunting and he shot at it and missed. Then he got to thinking, "Hmmm... I think that's the direction where my truck is parked; naaa, no way I..but I'll just check anyway". Well he did check and both the passenger side and driver's side windows were shot out. I don't think he ever lived that down.
One of the funniest I saw was a buddy of mine sitting in the cab of his pickup decapping a percussion long rifle with the muzzle on the floor and the windows rolled up. His thumb slipped off the hammer and it looked like a flash bang grenade went off and the cab instantly filled with smoke! The next thing we heard was the right front tire deflating rapidly!
I still get tears in my eyes laughing!! ;D
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And Daniel, I had a hunting friend for many years who did something similar. A doe trotted by him one day when we were hunting and he shot at it and missed. Then he got to thinking, "Hmmm... I think that's the direction where my truck is parked; naaa, no way I..but I'll just check anyway". Well he did check and both the passenger side and driver's side windows were shot out. I don't think he ever lived that down.
That cracks me up just picturing that. ;D
One of the funniest I saw was a buddy of mine sitting in the cab of his pickup decapping a percussion long rifle with the muzzle on the floor and the windows rolled up. His thumb slipped off the hammer and it looked like a flash bang grenade went off and the cab instantly filled with smoke! The next thing we heard was the right front tire deflating rapidly!
I still get tears in my eyes laughing!! ;D
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I wish you had taken more shots at the left target after concentrating better.
Let's not forget it was shot with the .010 patch.
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I wish you had taken more shots at the left target after concentrating better.
Let's not forget it was shot with the .010 patch.
I had stop on high note :). I going to try to shoot some more today. I've a portable table to use as a temporary shooting bench, instead leaning on the back of the truck. I wasn't too sure how I was going to react to the flash going off in my face on the initial shots, but this thing fires so quick I don't even notice it. So now I can concentrate more about the right load and patch cobination. Everyone has given me a lot of helpful information to try out.
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Just to compare. Shoot more with the .010 patch too.
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I'm just guessing but I think your rifling is deeper than 10/1000s so you will be getting blow by and a fouled bore unless you used an over bore sized round ball. JMHO
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Yes, but he still put one in a small bull. Was it luck? I'd like to see a group.
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This one works very well for me, for shooting in the gopher fields.
dimensions are:
3/4 ply - Canadian Tire folding legs - I suspect Lowes has them in the States
front 2' wide
back 18"
length 42"
cut out length 20 1/2"
29 1/2" tall
(https://i.ibb.co/qnbnWNn/new-bench-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JdXdyvd)
(https://i.ibb.co/6X2xXZX/new-bench-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BnmxnPn)
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That looks like a little slope to the rear on that bench which is good, gives you a better body position to handle the recoil. JMHO
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The chair does too. It must be a matching set.
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Minor slope to the ground is all.
If .010" patches actually worked, every one of this last year's postal match winners would have been using them. They didn't, not even one of them, not even once.
Same goes for winners at rendezvous. No .010" patches used.
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We were making a joke Daryl. We know it's the ground.
I'd still like to see a group with the .010 patch. Just to compare.
btw..I don't use a patch that thin but i'm the curious type.
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This one works very well for me, for shooting in the gopher fields.
dimensions are:
3/4 ply - Canadian Tire folding legs - I suspect Lowes has them in the States
front 2' wide
back 18"
length 42"
cut out length 20 1/2"
29 1/2" tall
(https://i.ibb.co/qnbnWNn/new-bench-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JdXdyvd)
That is exactly what I want to build. I was looking at Rugged Buddy folding legs , but I think yours look more stable. Will check Lowes.
Thanks!
(https://i.ibb.co/6X2xXZX/new-bench-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BnmxnPn)
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Yes, but he still put one in a small bull. Was it luck? I'd like to see a group.
Yes, it was luck. That is why I stopped for today wasn't goin to do that twice.
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The only way to show a tight patch is more accurate is to compare to a loose patch. I know you took a bunch of shots with the .010 patch but i'd still like to see a group when you're concentrating and then compare that to what you get with a tight patch.
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We were making a joke Daryl. We know it's the ground.
Actually Old Mt. Man I was serious, that slope lets you shoot without crouching down as far to sight and that can be a problem with heavy kickers off the bench. Even more so if your rifle has a lot of drop in the stock.
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This is a 5 shot group with .440 ball, 45 grains powder and .018 patch with moose milk.
(https://i.ibb.co/FHKy6DK/IMG-0210.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NTsJxys)
This is a 5 shot group with .440 ball, 45 grains powder and .020 patch with moose milk.That looked like 2 shots in the hole to the right.
(https://i.ibb.co/YDhCcFC/IMG-0211.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bHX0sM0)
Both are 5 shot groups. Target on the right is with .440 ball, 50 grains of powder and .020 patch with moose milk. Had a nice group going then I had a hang fire (low shot) and obviously pulled the high left shot. Target on the left is with .440 ball, 50 grains of powder and .020 patch with mink oil. That is 2 shots at the bullseye.
(https://i.ibb.co/ZmSr512/IMG-0212.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FVX12qH)
Started getting sloppy so I knocked off for today. Had a lot less fouling with the tighter patches. I did swab between each of the 5 shot groups for consistency. My shooting setup was better than the truck, but still want to build a bench like Daryl's. Having some issues seeing that front sight, may have to open the rear sight up a little. It's been cloudy today, but once in a while the sun would pop out and I could see the sight. I think the rifle is very accurate, once it gets me broke in I think my groups will get better.
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Looking better Bubba. ;) What do the shot patches look like?
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Looking better Bubba. ;) What do the shot patches look like?
They were intact. Did not see any burn through, but outside edge on all of them is frayed pretty bad. These are precut patches and are harder to get centered with the ball. The .010 patches were actually one size larger than called for, so they were easier to load. I think I'm going to get some material and start cutting them at the muzzle or get one size larger than called for. Any recommendations?
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If you cut at the muzzle, make sure your short starter Nub and Shaft are smaller than the bore/patch so you don't pinch the patch when you load. This can cause a weak area in the patch that you won't be able to see. I hope I explained that right! ;) I should also mention that a nice smooth crown will help starting a tighter combo which will probably give you even better groups.
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Joanne's fabrics (in the U. States) has denim sold by the ounce weight. I find 10 ounce shoots well in every rifle I have, with balls from .010" as well as .005" under bore size.
You might find 8 ounce will also shoot. I measure that at .018". It is too thin for my rifles, as well as Taylor's rifles.
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Ive won lots of matches with 10th patches. Try using a felt wad over the powder before you put the patch and ball down. No problems with fouling either. But I still would compare it to a heavier patch too. I dont think they carried mallets with them back in the day....
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The only way to show a tight patch is more accurate is to compare to a loose patch. I know you took a bunch of shots with the .010 patch but i'd still like to see a group when you're concentrating and then compare that to what you get with a tight patch.
You could also just check the combinations used in ANY match, ie: competition, to see how many use .005 to .010" balls with .010" patches.
Neither of those combinations actually get to the bottom of the grooves in most normal barrels, let alone create a seal.
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Doesn't the soft ball obturate a little to help fill the grooves?
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Did some smoothing on my muzzle crown. Could probably do a little more, but it is much better than before. It had a pretty sharp edge. Also, did some work to my set trigger, that tight curve was eating my fat finger up. It might have worked if could use my pinky finger. ;D
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Doesn't the soft ball obturate a little to help fill the grooves?
I don’t think so. The round shape of the ball facing the explosion doesn’t really lend itself to anything other than directing gasses to the edges. A flat based bullet can obtuse tell and a hollow base bullet is ideal for that. But, I digress. Round balls it is.
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Ok, thanks. Just curious.
I was thinking about smooth bores that use no patch.
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Doesn't the soft ball obturate a little to help fill the grooves?
Not likely at all in the smaller sizes & especially with loose combinations & small balls. I think the .574's were obturating in my Musketoon, as the rifling was
.008" deeper at the breech than at the muzzle, yet patches were reusable. A .020" patch with .495's in my .50 were not quite sealing, as brown scorch stripes
are witnessed on the recovered patches, running from the bearing ring out to the outside of the patch. These still shoot cleanly enough that no wiping or SWABBING
is necessary while shooting.
Many people who use thin patches cannot find them on the ground after they are shot, due to just burning up into blackened threads & pieces of charred cloth.
My .595's in the 20 bore also oburate as there is a slight choke, yet those patches are also reusable.
All patches fray around the edge and that is due to muzzle blast. The weaker the material, the more fraying there is.
This is a 5-shot group from a rest (portable table rest) at 25 yards. Shooting at this range, does not prove a load and is only done as a test of aiming precision.
Through this type of testing I have found that the undersized 16 bore ball, when fired with a sealing patch of .034", shoots 3/4" to the right of my sights + an inch high,
set for the full sized ball of .682" when used with a 10 ounce .021" patch. It pays to shoot on target when changing any components.
This "group" is 7/10" centre to centre from my .69cal. rifle.
(https://i.ibb.co/Mn7vsdz/IMG-3015.jpg) (https://ibb.co/D4QJtdB)
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I don't want to go off topic in someone else's thread but let me just say this Daryl.
We have different goals. I'm just a hunter. Only a deer hunter now. I still hunt timber as you know and my shots aren't very long. 60-70 yds is the max but my goal is to always get closer. If I can shoot a 2" group at my range offhand i'm as happy as a clam and will be in the deer's kill zone. Goal accomplished.
What I don't want is a load that's hard to load. I don't know if I have some medical problem that's making me so weak or if it's just my age. I'm losing a lot of weight too. I'm sure you're still strong and what you think is easy loading I won't. My goal is to use the easiest load that will still give me the accuracy i'm after. Not the very best accuracy but accurate enough to humanly kill a deer at my distances. I don't like to make a compromise in accuracy but I have to be able to load it. I practice enough to be the best shot I can be. If i'm not struggling to load the gun i'll practice more.
I hope you understand.
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Doesn't the soft ball obturate a little to help fill the grooves?
Not likely at all in the smaller sizes & especially with loose combinations & small balls. I think the .574's were obturating in my Musketoon, as the rifling was
.008" deeper at the breech than at the muzzle, yet patches were reusable. A .020" patch with .495's in my .50 were not quite sealing, as brown scorch stripes
are witnessed on the recovered patches, running from the bearing ring out to the outside of the patch. These still shoot cleanly enough that no wiping or SWABBING
is necessary while shooting.
Many people who use thin patches cannot find them on the ground after they are shot, due to just burning up into blackened threads & pieces of charred cloth.
My .595's in the 20 bore also oburate as there is a slight choke, yet those patches are also reusable.
All patches fray around the edge and that is due to muzzle blast. The weaker the material, the more fraying there is.
This is a 5-shot group from a rest (portable table rest) at 25 yards. Shooting at this range, does not prove a load and is only done as a test of aiming precision.
Through this type of testing I have found that the undersized 16 bore ball, when fired with a sealing patch of .034", shoots 3/4" to the right of my sights + an inch high,
set for the full sized ball of .682" when used with a 10 ounce .021" patch. It pays to shoot on target when changing any components.
This "group" is 7/10" centre to centre from my .69cal. rifle.
(https://i.ibb.co/Mn7vsdz/IMG-3015.jpg) (https://ibb.co/D4QJtdB)
One of the things i noticed on recovered patches. The .010 patches were in pieces (Obviously to loose). I found the .018 pillow ticking patches intact all over the yard. I only found two .020 patches even though I shot a lot more of them, those two were intact. Could it be they were getting cut during the loading? I have since smoothed the muzzle, just haven't tried it yet.
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I don't want to go off topic in someone else's thread but let me just say this Daryl.
We have different goals. I'm just a hunter. Only a deer hunter now. I still hunt timber as you know and my shots aren't very long. 60-70 yds is the max but my goal is to always get closer. If I can shoot a 2" group at my range offhand i'm as happy as a clam and will be in the deer's kill zone. Goal accomplished.
What I don't want is a load that's hard to load. I don't know if I have some medical problem that's making me so weak or if it's just my age. I'm losing a lot of weight too. I'm sure you're still strong and what you think is easy loading I won't. My goal is to use the easiest load that will still give me the accuracy i'm after. Not the very best accuracy but accurate enough to humanly kill a deer at my distances. I don't like to make a compromise in accuracy but I have to be able to load it. I practice enough to be the best shot I can be. If i'm not struggling to load the gun i'll practice more.
I hope you understand.
I'm with you. I want to get a load and patch accurate enough for hunting squirrels, but easy enough to load. I'm not a competition shooter, so as long as I can to squirrel head size, I will be happy, and that would take care of the deer size targets. So far I haven't had problems loading the ones I've shot, but the .020 patches with moose milk were a lot easier loading than with the mink oil.
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Yes, a liquid lube will always load easier but it's not the best choice for hunting.
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Here are a couple 10th patches from a brand new barrel.
(https://i.ibb.co/9sxJTN9/20210323-154755.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LnTMt8z)
(https://i.ibb.co/Q6560bR/20210323-153118.jpg) (https://ibb.co/THCHyvS)
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There is some blow-by and cutting on every land, Keith.
If this is good enough for you and Pete, well, so be it. Some of us demand the best accuracy
and to get that, the preponderance of evidence is for tight loads.
In small bores, especially the .32, loading was easier with mink oil than with any other lube I've
ever used.
The .69 still loads easily, with Track's Mink oil or Neetsfoot oil.
Big Bubba - for hunting squirrels you should have a load that will shoot into an inch at 50yards,
maybe 1 1/2" at the worse. Better is certainly better. With the .45, you will want to be head-shooting
them and that requires much better accuracy than a deer.
Yes, I know, most of the shots will be closer than that, but target-shooting-type accuracy is required to constantly kill squirrels.
The rifle is certainly capable - even a cheap production TC is capable of that - how can you accept less?
Any cutting of the patches, is due to the crown.
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Like I said, those are the 1st 2 shots out of a brand new barrel. I expected what I got with the sharp edges until the barrel gets some shots thru it. By the time I put a couple dozen thru it, the patches showed no issues at all.
I agree about the best accuracy. Some of my guns I get that with a 10th patch. Some with a 15th patch. I use a felt wad that protects the patch and helps keep the fouling to a minimum.
Im not into beating a ball down to get it started. Too much work thats not needed. Im a bag shooter. I shoot out of my bag at paper, steel, woodswalks, etc. Drives me crazy to see box shooters carrying everything including hammers. I can get my 5 shots off without issues of beating it to get it started. Then stand and watch other guys still on there 2nd or 3rd shot hammering away.
If thats what guys want to do, thats fine. But I get good enough results with a thinner patch and a felt wad to beat them almost all the time. And u can see I can find my patches intact and not blown apart.
I would like some of u to try it.
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There is some blow-by and cutting on every land, Keith.
If this is good enough for you and Pete, well, so be it. Some of us demand the best accuracy
and to get that, the preponderance of evidence is for tight loads.
In small bores, especially the .32, loading was easier with mink oil than with any other lube I've
ever used.
The .69 still loads easily, with Track's Mink oil or Neetsfoot oil.
Big Bubba - for hunting squirrels you should have a load that will shoot into an inch at 50yards,
maybe 1 1/2" at the worse. Better is certainly better. With the .45, you will want to be head-shooting
them and that requires much better accuracy than a deer.
Yes, I know, most of the shots will be closer than that, but target-shooting-type accuracy is required to constantly kill squirrels.
The rifle is certainly capable - even a cheap production TC is capable of that - how can you accept less?
Any cutting of the patches, is due to the crown.
Head shooting is the plan and I definitely need to be more accurate or I will be scaring more squirrels than killing. I'm hoping that smoothing the muzzle crown and opening up my rear sight is going to help. Eyesight is not what it once was.
I noticed that you use denim, all my old jeans are measuring .035".
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Like I said, those are the 1st 2 shots out of a brand new barrel. I expected what I got with the sharp edges until the barrel gets some shots thru it. By the time I put a couple dozen thru it, the patches showed no issues at all.
I agree about the best accuracy. Some of my guns I get that with a 10th patch. Some with a 15th patch. I use a felt wad that protects the patch and helps keep the fouling to a minimum.
Im not into beating a ball down to get it started. Too much work thats not needed. Im a bag shooter. I shoot out of my bag at paper, steel, woodswalks, etc. Drives me crazy to see box shooters carrying everything including hammers. I can get my 5 shots off without issues of beating it to get it started. Then stand and watch other guys still on there 2nd or 3rd shot hammering away.
If thats what guys want to do, thats fine. But I get good enough results with a thinner patch and a felt wad to beat them almost all the time. And u can see I can find my patches intact and not blown apart.
I would like some of u to try it.
We all shoot the trails out of the bag. None of our group is "HAMMERING AWAY" - LOL - not even the women who use the same loads we do & no complaints from them. Interesting line of thinking,
though.
I think you must make a trip up here to BC Rendezvous. At that rendezvous, no one shooting .010" wins - ever.
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The new Pedersoli Great Plains I just got has the tightest bore i've owned. I normally use a 2 1/2" cleaning patch. Not in this gun. I have to pound in a 2" patch. I haven't shot it yet but in the manual Pedersoli recommends a .010 shooting patch.
I just loaded it using October Bumblin Bear Grease and a .010 patch. I wouldn't want to try a thicker patch the way the bore is right now. Maybe it will loosen up some with more shooting.
Daryl...I don't think i'm settling for bad accuracy. A 2" group at 75 yds offhand isn't that bad. Of course that was for elk which have a big kill zone. For deer I may have to settle for a smaller group. What are your groups at 75yds offhand?
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You might try to turn down your jag a bit to use those cleaning patches.
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True, but shooting patches will still be thin.
It's so barrel heavy i'm not sure i'll keep it. CG is at the front wedge. That's pretty far forward and I feel it right in my lower back. I didn't think it would be that bad.
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I'm not going to give up on it. I did find out something in a Mike Nesbitt review. He said the barrel has a button rifling and has .006 grooves.
Does the .010 patch make more sense with that barrel?
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A tighter load will close up those groups. With my Kibler for general shooting offhand at NMLRA targets I use a .440 ball and a .018 ticking patch lubed with either spit, moose milk or Mr. Flintlock lube. These will go in the black if I do my part. But for shooting at a small "X" at 25 yards to score at a meat shoot I use 40 gr of Goex, a .445 ball and .022 canvas patch lubed with Mr. Flintlock lube. Need a mallet to get the load started but goes down smoothly.
(https://i.ibb.co/0QN94t5/Turkey-shoot-again.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rvPp8s9)
At first glance, I thought you had been hunting in the meat market at Safeway!
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These are all 3 shot groups. .440 ball, spit patch. Did not clean barrel until I was done shooting for today. Top row is all 50 grains Olde E. Left to right .020 cotton patch, .018 pillow ticking patch, .015 cotton patch. The bottom row is the same, but used 55 grains Olde E. I did start messing with some different loads with the .018 patches, but my spots started falling off the targets and I lost track. It was also getting windy. Opening up my rear sight definitely helped out.
(https://i.ibb.co/Zm0D34B/IMG-0214.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5FPHdpr)
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A tighter load will close up those groups. With my Kibler for general shooting offhand at NMLRA targets I use a .440 ball and a .018 ticking patch lubed with either spit, moose milk or Mr. Flintlock lube. These will go in the black if I do my part. But for shooting at a small "X" at 25 yards to score at a meat shoot I use 40 gr of Goex, a .445 ball and .022 canvas patch lubed with Mr. Flintlock lube. Need a mallet to get the load started but goes down smoothly.
(https://i.ibb.co/0QN94t5/Turkey-shoot-again.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rvPp8s9)
Bob,
How many grains fo powder are you using with the .440 ball and .018 ticking.? So far that is combo my rifle seems to like, but I still need to play around with the different charges.
Thanks,
Bubba
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Well, I shot my gun. The gun is so heavy that 80gr feels like a .22. I'll try 90 gr next time. Didn't need a .010 patch. I went with a .015 and may try a PT .018 next time.
Sorry Bubba. We can give two gun reports in this thread. :)
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Well, I shot my gun. The gun is so heavy that 80gr feels like a .22. I'll try 90 gr next time. Didn't need a .010 patch. I went with a .015 and may try a PT .018 next time.
Sorry Bubba. We can give two gun reports in this thread. :)
What caliber is yours?
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.50
I normally use a .54 but I won't be hunting for elk anymore and a .50 is fine for deer and bear.
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.50
I have a .50 cal half stock that I built 25 years ago. Mine has a fast twist (1:28), so I only shoot conicals (T/C Maxi ball). Only load that with 70 grains 2F, which is fine for whitetails out to a 100 yards. I started out with 3F, but that killed my shoulder. Of course I know now that was because of the way I put that crescent butt plate on my shoulder.
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A lot of guys make that mistake. Me included.
I have to chuckle at Hickock45 when he shoots his GPR. He shoulders it like he's shooting an AR-15 and then complains the butt plate is digging into him.
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Bob,
How many grains fo powder are you using with the .440 ball and .018 ticking.? So far that is combo my rifle seems to like, but I still need to play around with the different charges.
Thanks,
Bubba
(https://i.ibb.co/vD9znrM/Kibler-at-50-yards-offhand.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wYt6mb2)
With the 1/66 twist it is my experience that twist usually prefers a larger charge for best overall accuracy. The 65 grain load with the .440 ball in the target image shoots good at all distances offhand out to 100 yards. But for pinpoint accuracy needed in our "meat shoot" I have found the .445 ball and thicker canvas patch is hard to beat with just 40 grains or so of 3g Goex at 25 yards. I do not like it for general shooting. I dislike using a mallet. If I cannot start the ball with a whack with the palm of my hand for general shooting then it is too tight for me. I scored a 164 or maybe a 167 (can't remember) in the 2019 Fall shoot at Friendship with the .440 ball and ticking with 65 grains of Goex 3f in the Offhand Flintlock Hunting rifle category with my 45 Kibler.
What I don't like about the .45 SMR is that you have to pace your shots in a match. Mirage from those thin barrel walls will absolutely mess with your scores. Pace your shots and it is no problem..............Bob
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In my Kibler SMR rifle at 25 yards using the .445 ball with the canvas .022 patch lubed with Mr. Flintlock and using 40 grains of 3f Goex if I place the sights on the "X" and yank the trigger at the same time the sights are aligned, and the ball will hit the mark. One thing about a meat shoot like this is that you can win with a bad shot when the other 40 shooters have a worse shot. I've seen everyone make a bad shot and the winner's shot wasn't within an inch of the X. But most of the time if you are not within 3/8s of an inch of the X you are not in the running in my neck of the woods. Man I love that gun.
(https://i.ibb.co/q5hjVkm/20201107-144242.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DpmWT5w)
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Bob,
How many grains fo powder are you using with the .440 ball and .018 ticking.? So far that is combo my rifle seems to like, but I still need to play around with the different charges.
Thanks,
Bubba
(https://i.ibb.co/vD9znrM/Kibler-at-50-yards-offhand.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wYt6mb2)
With the 1/66 twist it is my experience that twist usually prefers a larger charge for best overall accuracy. The 65 grain load with the .440 ball in the target image shoots good at all distances offhand out to 100 yards. But for pinpoint accuracy needed in our "meat shoot" I have found the .445 ball and thicker canvas patch is hard to beat with just 40 grains or so of 3g Goex at 25 yards. I do not like it for general shooting. I dislike using a mallet. If I cannot start the ball with a whack with the palm of my hand for general shooting then it is too tight for me. I scored a 164 or maybe a 167 (can't remember) in the 2019 Fall shoot at Friendship with the .440 ball and ticking with 65 grains of Goex 3f in the Offhand Flintlock Hunting rifle category with my 45 Kibler.
What I don't like about the .45 SMR is that you have to pace your shots in a match. Mirage from those thin barrel walls will absolutely mess with your scores. Pace your shots and it is no problem..............Bob
Thanks Bob, that is what I was looking for, a load for general shooting. I was not sure which way to go with my charge. I don't do competition shoots, but did order some .445 balls to try out. I will have to try to pace my shots better, I was shooting pretty much back to back yesterday, so could have been affecting my shot placement. With the .018 ticking I could put two shots touching on the bullseye, but the third shot would be off. I figured it was just me.
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In my .45 with 60" twist, for general trail walks using a water based lube, either WWWF + a tich of oil or spit, I used 65gr. 3F as that load was a fairly consistent
1/2" C to C at 50yards.
If I used a slippery lube like LeHighVally or Mr. Flintlock lube, I had to go to 75gr. 3F to get the same accuracy at 50 yards. The velocity was a lot higher with the
heavier charge, but the point of impact pretty much stayed the same.
Lube makes a difference. I did not try mink oil in the .40 or .45 so cannot comment on that lube, in these barrels.
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In my .45 with 60" twist, for general trail walks using a water based lube, either WWWF + a tich of oil or spit, I used 65gr. 3F as that load was a fairly consistent
1/2" C to C at 50yards.
If I used a slippery lube like LeHighVally or Mr. Flintlock lube, I had to go to 75gr. 3F to get the same accuracy at 50 yards. The velocity was a lot higher with the
heavier charge, but the point of impact pretty much stayed the same.
Lube makes a difference. I did not try mink oil in the .40 or .45 so cannot comment on that lube, in these barrels.
What is WWWF + a tich of oil? I was using all spit patches yesterday, which worked pretty good. Did not clean between shots all day and final cleaning was really easy, but interested in trying other lubes. Ordered some Hoppe's patch lube to try with some other supplies (that happened to be what they had). The mink oil I would use for hunting, since it doesn't dry out.
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WWWF is I think winter windshield washer fluid. A lot of people use Hoppe's #9 path lube with good results me included for any kind of shooting other than hunting where I use Tracks mink oil/bear oil mix.
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The chemical composition of the slavia in a good spit patch is the direct result of whatcha been drinkin. Ok I made that up really seams to work for me! :P
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The chemical composition of the slavia in a good spit patch is the direct result of whatcha been drinkin. Ok I made that up really seams to work for me! :P
Levi Garret chewing tobacco, provides the right consistency of slime. ;D
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Bubba- the Grouch has it right. WWWF + tich of oil, is Winter Windshield Washer Fluid + a bit of Neetsfoot Oil.
The Winter stuff (I use Blue thunder) is usually under $4.00 per gallon 7 to 8 ounces or so of Neestfoot oil I put in it,
is cheap. Not as cheap as spit, but cheaper than about anything else. The oil is to reduce evapouration on hot days
on the trail, as well as to provide a bit of slippery to the washer fluid. It works about the same as spit and it about as
slippery - not much. I use this with pre-cut patches, lubed and kept in a tin, sucrets or one of the containers Track sells.
I have a bunch of those. They work very well for holding lubed patches in the possible's bag along with the balls.
Shake the WWWF container before pouring over the patches. Let them soak it up, the squeeze the stack in the container,
running the excess back into the lube container.
I used the snuff and tinder boxes on this page, along with Sucretts Tins, .22 &.25 cal. "pellet" tins as well. The screw-on
H&N along with the JSB push lids.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/23/1
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Daryl, you mention " a bit of Neetsfoot oil" in you mix and I'm wondering if water soluble machine oil would work as well if you couldn't find any Neetsfoot oil.
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Bubba- the Grouch has it right. WWWF + tich of oil, is Winter Windshield Washer Fluid + a bit of Neetsfoot Oil.
The Winter stuff (I use Blue thunder) is usually under $4.00 per gallon 7 the 8 ounces or so of Neestfoot oil I put in it,
is cheap. Not as cheap as spit, but cheaper than about anything else. The oil is to reduce evapouration on hot days
on the trail, as well as to provide a bit of slippery to the washer fluid. It works about the same as spit and it about as
slippery - not much. I use this with pre-cut patches, lubed and kept in a tin, sucrets or one of the containers Track sells.
I have a bunch of those. They work very well for holding lubed patches in the possible's bag along with the balls.
Shake the WWWF container before pouring over the patches. Let them soak it up, the squeeze the stack in the container,
running the excess back into the lube container.
I used the snuff and tinder boxes on this page, along with Sucretts Tins, .22 &.25 cal. "pellet" tins as well. The screw-on
H&N along with the JSB push lids.
That would make a lot of patch lube cheap.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/23/1
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A gallon used to last a year of trail walks. Now that we don't shoot the trail as often, it lasts a lot longer.
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We were making a joke Daryl. We know it's the ground.
I'd still like to see a group with the .010 patch. Just to compare.
btw..I don't use a patch that thin but i'm the curious type.
Imagine putting together a 3” group and having the 5th shot go inexplicably two feet left. That’s your .010 group.
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That's a pretty good analogy, Mike.
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At first glance, I thought you had been hunting in the meat market at Safeway!
My boss asked me if I scared everyone in the frozen food department when I fired the gun!
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We were making a joke Daryl. We know it's the ground.
I'd still like to see a group with the .010 patch. Just to compare.
btw..I don't use a patch that thin but i'm the curious type.
Imagine putting together a 3” group and having the 5th shot go inexplicably two feet left. That’s your .010 group.
I don't see that in the first post.
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Had the target been at 50yards or further, it's quite likely.
3" at 25 yards is double what a smoothbore will do. Bunch of smoothbores on this site
apparently do 3" at 50 yards, but none of them have entered the postal matches.
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I'm not saying he should use a .010 patch. I'm just saying i'd like to see him shoot a group like he did on his last shot at the left target. Just to compare. I'm betting it would be better than what he shot at the right target.
Read his first post again.
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I read his post again. Makes no difference. A .010" patch material barely makes a handkerchief for blowing your nose into.
It could be patch material, IF and only IF you were using a bore size, or larger than bore sized ball.
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I read his post again. Makes no difference. A .010" patch material barely makes a handkerchief for blowing your nose into.
It could be patch material, IF and only IF you were using a bore size, or larger than bore sized ball.
Yes, the .010 patch was pretty loose. I could thumb start with those patches and there was a lot more fouling compared to the thicker patches. Also the fired patches recovered were in pieces. The bullseye I hit with one of those, is one of those I'd rather be lucky than good shots.
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I read his post again. Makes no difference. A .010" patch material barely makes a handkerchief for blowing your nose into.
It could be patch material, IF and only IF you were using a bore size, or larger than bore sized ball.
Or a tight bore and shallow rifling. There's a reason that Pedersoli recommends a .010 patch for my gun. It was accurate when I tried the .010 patch. I can force a .015 patch down but it requires swabbing after every shot. The .010 patch didn't even blow apart.
I agree a .010 patch work for most guns but a general statement can't be made that it won't work at all or will give a 2ft flyer. Not always.
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If that thin patch does actually work in that GPR it has to be because it only has 6 thousands deep BUTTON rifling with no sharp corners. Those thin patches, IMHO just wont fill the groves of just about any cut rifled bore and give any decent accuracy. So if those thin patches work in a GPR that isn't reason to think they will work in a deeper CUT rifled bore. My biased opinion but open to debate. ;)
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I'm not sure about the grooves. Mike Nesbitt says they're button rifling .006 deep. Lyman says they're .012. I know the .010 patches left a lot of fouling, so they weren't filling the grooves. I can't see me using more than a .015 patch. It went down hard. I can't figure why Pedersoli recommends a .010 patch.
I don't have a way to look at the grooves. They feel pretty shallow at the muzzle.
Sorry Bubba. I'm crapping up your thread.
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I'm not sure about the grooves. Mike Nesbitt says they're button rifling .006 deep. Lyman says they're .012. I know the .010 patches left a lot of fouling, so they weren't filling the grooves. I can't see me using more than a .015 patch. It went down hard. I can't figure why Pedersoli recommends a .010 patch.
I don't have a way to look at the grooves. They feel pretty shallow at the muzzle.
Sorry Bubba. I'm crapping up your thread.
That's quite all right. I'm continuing to learn new stuff out of this. Haven't had problems loading even with the .020 patch in mine, it just seems the .018 patch is grouping better. Still need to try out some other charges that were recommended.
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I was going to say the .018 PT patch seems like your best bet.
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BBubba - the tighter the combination that is loadable, the better it will shoot.
In testing my .45 with from .018" patches, .0225" 10ounce denim and the .0235" mattress ticking patches with both .440" balls and .445" balls, the
.445" balls and .0235" patches were the most accurate. The same phenomenon in my .40 occurred, with the .400" ball an .0235" patch, as it did in
the .69 using .682" balls and .030" and .035" 12 and 14 ounce denim patches. I will say that with the .682" ball (dead soft) with the .034" patches,
you had to really want them to go in. A hap-hazzard or lazy attempt would not even get those started into the bore, however, they were/are the most
accurate in that rifle.
My 1970's .50 TC Hawken(s) had .004" buttoned rifling and it shot best with a .495" ball and .022" denim patches & 85gr. 2F GOEX powder.
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BBubba - the tighter the combination that is loadable, the better it will shoot.
In testing my .45 with from .018" patches, .0225" 10ounce denim and the .0235" mattress ticking patches with both .440" balls and .445" balls, the
.445" balls and .0235" patches were the most accurate. The same phenomenon in my .40 occurred, with the .400" ball an .0235" patch, as it did in
the .69 using .682" balls and .030" and .035" 12 and 14 ounce denim patches. I will say that with the .682" ball (dead soft) with the .034" patches,
you had to really want them to go in. A hap-hazzard or lazy attempt would not even get those started into the bore, however, they were/are the most
accurate in that rifle.
My 1970's .50 TC Hawken(s) had .004" buttoned rifling and it shot best with a .495" ball and .022" denim patches & 85gr. 2F GOEX powder.
Thanks! I did order some .445 balls to try out. May have to go to the fabric store for thicker patches though.
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10 ounce denim works in every gun I have & even in the 20 bore with .595" balls.
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My only problem with my SMR in .45 is that I will have mirage issues if I shoot too quick. Take your time and let the barrel cool between shots. I alleviated the problem somewhat by installing taller sights and pacing my shots during a match.
One other thing about shooting this rifle offhand. I found I can be more consistent if I place my left arm far out on the forend as far as possible while shooting offhand. Holding it back up close to the lock like the target shooters doesn't work for me with that slim 46 inch barrel. It is light enough to hold way out there.
Bob
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Got to do some more shooting today. Groups tightened up quite a bit with the Hoppe's patch lube vs spit patch, and also with the 65 grain charge. I also got better groups with the October Country pillow ticking vs what I had from TOW even though they measured the same .018. The TOW pre-cut patches are very soft and fray easy, which makes centering them and loading more of a pain, which explains why some of the recovered patches the edges were blown off. The October Country patch material is stiff and the daisy cut patches are easier to center and don't fray when loading. I did get the same material as the daisy cut patches to cut at the muzzle. Only shot three of the ones I cut at the muzzle, and they group just as well as the daisies, in fact out of the recovered patches they looked the best.
I also got some promising groups with the .445 balls. I just need to get some better targets that I can see the bullseye. It has been cloudy today and that doesn't help old eyes.
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For pre-cut patches you might have a look at the Bridgers Best shooting patches. A nice stiff tight weave material compared to Octobers.
http://www.thegunworks.com/custprodgun.cfm?Cat2Name=Bridgers%20Best%20Patches&SubCat2ID=207&do=list&Cat1Name=Patches
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For pre-cut patches you might have a look at the Bridgers Best shooting patches. A nice stiff tight weave material compared to Octobers.
http://www.thegunworks.com/custprodgun.cfm?Cat2Name=Bridgers%20Best%20Patches&SubCat2ID=207&do=list&Cat1Name=Patches
Thanks!
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I see the link just brought up the home page. Let's try this.
http://www.thegunworks.com/custprodgun.cfm?ProductID=102&do=detail&Cat2Option=yes
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These are the patch cutters I use. Steel ball bearings and bearing races, or arch punches against HDPE (UHMW) block.
The HDPE - UHMW here, is self healing poly, available at plastic's shops. 10" square x 2' thick pieces cost us $10.00 here
and will last about indefinitely.
The only pre-cut patches I bought, were OxYoke patches from Track which were disappointing to say the least. They measured .003" to .004" thinner than what the package said - useless, imho.
(https://i.ibb.co/JpSpBhy/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3FPFrJM)
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Which is why I don't buy from TOW.
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These are the patch cutters I use. Steel ball bearings and bearing races, or arch punches against HDPE (UHMW) block.
The HDPE - UHMW here, is self healing poly, available at plastic's shops. 10" square x 2' thick pieces cost us $10.00 here
and will last about indefinitely.
The only pre-cut patches I bought, were OxYoke patches from Track which were disappointing to say the least. They measured .003" to .004" thinner than what the package said - useless, imho.
(https://i.ibb.co/JpSpBhy/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3FPFrJM)
Daryl,
Do you cut your patches larger than what they typically sell for a particular caliber? That was one thing I liked about the .010 patches, they did not have the size for my caliber so, I bought the next size up. A lot easier lining up the oversize patches. I plan on shooting some more just cutting at the muzzle for now, but eventually I want to get me a punch.
I also want to try the denim out also. Joanns is out of stock so, I'm gone try Hobby Lobby.
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It is easier lining up patches that are actually slightly larger than needed, yes.
The under thickness patches were in OxYoke packaging. That had nothing to do with Trackofthewolf.
They were selling a prepackaged product. Pete - your statement cast negative at Track for no justifiable reason.
It is not their fault OxYoke had someone with limp wrists on the calipers (maybe someone from California?)
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The were selling them Daryl. The Bridger patches are much much better and they should sell them instead. TOW needs to take responsibility for what they sell.
I also have a personal reason for not liking TOW but I won't talk about it on a forum.
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Daryl..........It looks like my second link changed to the home page too. I hate it when that happens. So, here's a picture of the patches. Do you recognize the material? It's nothing like the flimsy cotton patches most companies use. Much stiffer and a tighter weave. This isn't lubed but a dry patch.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thegunworks.com%2FPhotos%2FACF9F.jpg&hash=7fade0093abd7971ef0ad6e290affa0c63247342)
(https://i.ibb.co/Lz6gTt8/ACF9F.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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These are the patch cutters I use. Steel ball bearings and bearing races, or arch punches against HDPE (UHMW) block.
The HDPE - UHMW here, is self healing poly, available at plastic's shops. 10" square x 2' thick pieces cost us $10.00 here
and will last about indefinitely.
The only pre-cut patches I bought, were OxYoke patches from Track which were disappointing to say the least. They measured .003" to .004" thinner than what the package said - useless, imho.
(https://i.ibb.co/JpSpBhy/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3FPFrJM)
Daryl what are the ball Bearings for???
Anthony
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See the denim patch material between the ball bearing and the race. Bang with a hammer, cut patch slightly larger than the diameter of the bearing race.
& NO - after 10's of thousands of patches cut with these by many of our members here over the last 40 years, a ball bearing has never shattered,
nor has a bearing race.
I expect the large ball bearings are from a "Cat".
Pete - no I do not recognize the patch material, other than it is likely a "drill". Poor picture for enlarging. Stiffness usually means the sizing was not washed out
before the patch was cut.
Many of the patch retailers use ticking of some sort. The Chinese ticking is more open weave than US made ticking. Same with denim.
Denim is so easy to purchase by the yard from yard goods and sewing materials stores. 8ounce is about .018" to .019" and this newer 10 ounce measures .021"
for me with my calipers squeezing the tines on the fabric between forefinger and thumb as hard as I can & reading the dial. You will get incorrect measurements
if you just use the wheel on the side of the calipers. Measured in this manner, Taylor and I get identical readings.
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Hey Big Bubba, For cutting a bunch of patches without using a hammer, or raiding the junkyard, get a hole saw the right size, grind the teeth off, sharpen the edge by chucking it up in your drill motor, and running the outside cutting edge against a bench grinder. The inside can be sharpened with a stone, or ceramic rod. Then you just fold up the patch material, and cut five or six patches at a time.
As for your portable shooting bench, cruise the yard sales, and find an old metal adjustable height ironing board. You can usually get one of these for almost nothing.
Hungry Horse
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Ok, thanks Daryl.
Maybe stiffer was the wrong word to use. Maybe the tighter weave gives that impression. It was flexible but more solid if that makes any sense.
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Hey Big Bubba, For cutting a bunch of patches without using a hammer, or raiding the junkyard, get a hole saw the right size, grind the teeth off, sharpen the edge by chucking it up in your drill motor, and running the outside cutting edge against a bench grinder. The inside can be sharpened with a stone, or ceramic rod. Then you just fold up the patch material, and cut five or six patches at a time.
As for your portable shooting bench, cruise the yard sales, and find an old metal adjustable height ironing board. You can usually get one of these for almost nothing.
Hungry Horse
Thanks, for the hole saw idea. I remember seeing that on one of Bob McBride's video but kind forgot about it.
Just found some canvas patch material. Had a pair of new (25 years ago) canvas coveralls someone gave me. Never worn or washed until today. Measure between .021 and .023 depending how hard you push the calipers. Very tight weave, a lot better looking than the other materials i've been using. Can't wait to try it.
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Hi Bubba, sometimes you can find those " hole saws " in the pawn shops or 2nd hand stores. I have used them as Hungry Horse does and it works for me but the bearing race and ball would work too if you have or can find one.
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Be careful with hole saws for cutting patches. If the "bit" grabs the cloth, it will attempt to wrap your hand around the spindle, if using a drill press.
It can break fingers quite quickly. Clamping the material between 2 boards with the hole-saw hole through it is much safer. One of our guys does this.
I find the arch punch works perfectly on the HDPE board.
In the States, Joanne's Fabrics sells material and on line as well and the denim is listed the ounce "weight".
I use 14 ounce denim with both 16 and 15 bore balls in my .69(14bore) - with balls much closer to the bore size, 10 ounce works well.
I measure that at .021" for the last 2 batches I purchased.
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Good point Daryl and I should have mentioned that I fold about 4-5 times and clamp on the corner with a vice grip. Works good for me.
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This is starting to not make sense, why would you want to drill holes in your patch?
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No holes on patch, just holes in material strip.
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Making round patches with a hole saw. The hole saw cuts a round hole, a ring in the material, leaving the material in the middle, solid.
You end up with a bunch of round patches, 1", 1 1/8", 1 1/4", 1 3/8" or 1 1/2". You use the hole saw, that will cut the diameter you need.
The blade is hollow. Here are a couple pictures of a hole saw that has not been altered for cutting patches. If it were, it would have a bolt
with the head inside the "bell" and shaft sticking up for the drill or drill press chuck, instead of a drill. The teeth would be ground off and it would be sharpened.
(https://i.ibb.co/1L8h930/IMG-3034.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G0cBVXd)
(https://i.ibb.co/TWrFRWc/IMG-3035.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dm7z6mB)
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Be careful with hole saws for cutting patches. If the "bit" grabs the cloth, it will attempt to wrap your hand around the spindle, if using a drill press.
How is this possible if you replaced the drill bit with a bolt?
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Be careful with hole saws for cutting patches. If the "bit" grabs the cloth, it will attempt to wrap your hand around the spindle, if using a drill press.
How is this possible if you replaced the drill bit with a bolt?
Depends on the arbor you have. If you have a 1/2" arbor you just take out the bit and can still chuck it up in the drill. The picture above shows the bit it self chucks up in the drill, so you can't slide he bit back far enough out of the way and still tighten it up on the arbor and chuck it up in the drill. Hence the need for the bolt that you use just enough to tighten up in the hole saw arbor and chuck up in the drill.
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Taylor made one, as-did Big Ron here in PG. When I mentioned the bit grabbing the cloth, I meant the hole saw
thus the clamping between 2 boards and running the hole saw down through a pre-cut hole. With this method,
you could cut 20 to 50 patches in one "pass".- whatever will fit up inside the saw's body.
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The hole saw I used was 1 1/2" OD...that's the size hole it makes in wood. To use it as a patch cutter, it's the inside diameter that you need to be aware of, it this case 1 5/16". I keep it razor sharp, fold the material to create 8 patches at a time, and hand hold the cloth bundle on the board, which is clamped to the table of the drill press, run at slow. After each cut, I turn off the press, and with a pick remove the patches from the inside of the cup. I save the bundle after cutting the patches, because where the material is folded there are patches for smaller rifles which I cut into strips and cut on the muzzle.
I simply cut off the drill bit that went through the cup, rather than use a bolt.
(https://i.ibb.co/KGGs6Lq/image.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Jddpny7)
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Thanks Taylor, I don't think I want one of those. I will look at the local CAT dealer and see if he has any ball bearings laying around!
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I purchased my ball from a bearing shop in town. It's 1 1/2" diameter and works in all the races I use for various patch sizes from 1 3/8" down to 3/4". The balls can be pretty spendy.
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A source for used balls might be a motor winding shop, if you have one in your town.
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Did some more smoothing on my crown and got to shoot some today using some canvas (.021-.023 depending how hard you press.) with .440 balls.
Started at 65 grains center left target (5 shots). Not sure what happened on the first shot low. Also, the patches were sloppy wet which I figured out on the center right target was not good, just damp is better.
Dropped to 60 grains center right target (5 SHOTS). The low shot was sloppy wet.
Dropped to 55 grains upper right hand of right target ( 3 shots). I think the reason it was off center is the sun popped out and was shining right on my front sight. Also 5 shots on the upper left corner of the left target was 55 grains. The other two corners on the left target are 50 grains.
Took one shot at each of the first five 2" bullseyes using 50 grains. Horn was empty so I had to stop. Went through a pound of powder in less than a month, glad I ordered 10 lbs.
(https://i.ibb.co/kcwVTfz/IMG-0234.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ysZmC1K)
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Well, you are getting there, keep at it. ;)
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This was my best group yet at 25 yards. 5 Shot group, .440 ball, .021 canvas patch and 60 grains 3fg. I will start at 50 yards next time.
I 've once shot conicals in my other muzzleloaders and it was easier coming up with a good load for it vs patched round ball. It's been fun though.
Thanks for everybody's help!
(https://i.ibb.co/WKrWNqL/IMG-0235.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0J0jp8x)
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Yes, 50 yards will give you real information. Smoothbores will even group well at 25 yards.
At 50 and 100 yards, the target style below works best for my eyes. Day-glo poster paper back with black construction paper triangle taped on. I perch the triangle right on top of the front sight. It gives me a very defined aiming point. Yes that low one, first out of the barrel that day, was a bummer.
Best wishes for great shooting. God Bless, Marc
(https://i.ibb.co/4mfkH1j/Target-11-20-IMG-7428.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gj7Yx4D)
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Marc brings up a good point, most shooters will shoot tighter groups when they aim at the smallest dot they can see. Thus the old aim small miss small.
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Marc, I have a few targets like yours too. Some days things go right and some days they don't.
(https://i.ibb.co/zbDKRMp/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bLDpB0T)
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Yes, 50 yards will give you real information. Smoothbores will even group well at 25 yards.
At 50 and 100 yards, the target style below works best for my eyes. Day-glo poster paper back with black construction paper triangle taped on. I perch the triangle right on top of the front sight. It gives me a very defined aiming point. Yes that low one, first out of the barrel that day, was a bummer.
Best wishes for great shooting. God Bless, Marc
(https://i.ibb.co/4mfkH1j/Target-11-20-IMG-7428.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gj7Yx4D)
Thanks for the target idea. I will have to try this because that has been one of my big issues is seeing the target and sights. The ones I used today worked good at 25 yards, but it's not going to be good at 50 yards.