AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: curly on June 01, 2021, 10:03:12 PM
-
Most all of my rifles have ramrod jags screwed on the ends of my ramrods. They extend past the muzzle considerabley. Does this, in anyway, have an influence on the accuracy of the shot? :-\
Curly
-
If the ball strikes nothing as it leaves your barrel, it will have the same accuracy regardless of the situation with your ramrod. The ramrods extending past the barrel, will have absolutely no bearing on the accuracy of your shot.
-
However, it looks goofy.
-
I understand you are thinking of the changed muzzleblast having an effect on the shot. I don't know if that will effect a shot just as an angled muzzle definitely will.
I would say however, whatever effect it has, will be replicated each shot.
I also happen to think that a rod sticking out past the muzzle and having a jag attached, looks goofy. 😶
-
There must have been a reason to look goofy (ramrod past end of barrel) As most of the old pictures and rifles I see from back in the day had long ramrods. I have extras that are “long” for a lot of my rifles. Just to play with why they did it. I found it catches every leaf and branch in the woods. But I would think we would all agree they were intentionally long because they actually used their ramrods full-time, And didn’t have to put them in cases to put in the truck etc.
But I don’t notice an impact difference when shooting and can’t think why it would matter.
-
I think some of these old wives tales may be the key to being remembered long after you’ve taken the proverbial dirt nap. I heard this one almost fifty years ago. I went to the range and after spending a delightful afternoon testing the theory found it to be pure bunk.
The biggest reason for the ramrod extending past the muzzle of the gun, is the ramrod hole wasn’t bored deep enough. Several kit guns back in the day had this problem.
Hungry Horse
-
And it looks like $#@*. However, the crooked filed muzzled were a quick and cheap(dirty) way of regulating SxS rifles.
Even Colt did that with their early SxS rifles. However that was the actual muzzle, not something hanging down and ugly under it.
-
I suppose a guy could shoot 10 shots with the rod in and 10 more with the rod out and see for your self hopw it works in your gun. ;)
-
So....are we supposed to screw..and the Un-screw the jag after each shot, so we don’t look goofy ?
-
So....are we supposed to screw..and the Un-screw the jag after each shot, so we don’t look goofy ?
I do if i'm swabbing. For just loading I have a pinned brass fitting with a cup on it to fit the ball.
For swabbing I screw on a tow worm.
-
Take a careful look at pictures of old southern mountain rifles. I think that you will see many of their owners used their rifles with ramrods protruding multiple inches beyond the muzzle of the rifle. Being raised over on the Tennessee side of the Appalachians, it never struck me as odd to see the long ramrods. That's just the way things were!
J.B.
-
To me it always looks like the ramrod is falling out.
Not sure I ever saw a Hawken with a long rod.
-
I don't recall seeing protruding ramrods as a "thing" other than in the Appalachians. I don't care for that as I cut patches at the muzzle, and don't want to continually cut into my ramrod. God Bless, Marc
-
::) ::)... most all the old hog rifles I ever saw had ramrods sticking out about a hand's length past the muzzle,.. and all hit their mark,... might be a mountain thing in east Tennessee and N. Carolina,..?? ... I don't think it looked funny,... is just the way was supposed to be,...!!! ... Don't think i would have told Big Will Walker his gun looked "goofy",....
(https://i.ibb.co/MkgdZzR/a75a65d5307ba62ff8daf1952a0b0893-2.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
-
Yes, it was an Eastern Mountain "thing".
Each to his own - do it if you want. Now as far as shooting without the rod in the rifle, testing would have to be done to see if the accuracy is disturbed.
As I use a short starter for loading, if the rod stuck out past the muzzle, I would have to revove it (and lay it on the ground) before starting the ball.
-
Yes, Big Will. It looks goofy.
Let's ask this question. Why is it too long?
-
I'll bite.
It sticks out past the muzzle and looks goofy. That's what's wrong with it.
It destroys the symmetry of the rifle.
Whether "it was done" & that is enough reason for "you" is OK "for you".
When I first saw the movie about Alvin York I thought the rod sticking out past the muzzle looked goofy. I was a kid then.
My opinion has not changed.
-
I doubt, that while literally hunting to survive, in between fighting Indians, British and/or Le Francais that many cared about looking “goofy”. But then, that’s just me.
Ez
-
I'll bite.
It sticks out past the muzzle and looks goofy. That's what's wrong with it.
It destroys the symmetry of the rifle.
Whether "it was done" & that is enough reason for "you" is OK "for you".
No, not why does it look goofy. That's obvious. I mean why is the rod too long? Why not have it end at the muzzle. My thought is it's a poor design and a ramrod that ended at the muzzle would be too short to work as it should in the barrel.
-
Like I said, if it's ok with you, then fine.
Carry a goofy looking rifle. ;D 8)
-
I have seen some of those pictures of those old mountain shooters with the rod past the muzzle and i wonder if those shooters are using a hickory RANGE rod to use at over the log/chunk gun style matches. That extra long rod is a lot easier to get a grip on and the size of some of the rifles pictured tells me they didn't go out hunting but just to shooting matches
-
None of my rods stick out past the muzzle & they all work perfectly.
-
I had that thought as well smylee grouch.
-
IIRC Walter Cline had several of those pics of some of the old time match shooters with just such ramrods. I have a small tin sign with three or four of those old time shooters, that I think I bought from Hobby Lobby.
-
I noticed I have a couple of rifles that have the rods a tad longer than the barrel, maybe 1/4" to 1/3". But I sometimes switch rods among rifles and "stuff" happens. I don't use a jag on the rod when hunting the bush. At the range I may or may not use one. But at the range I normally load with the ramrod, seldom reinserting it back into the rifle between shots. Once out it is likely to stay out for the duration. Something like this is more common.
(https://i.postimg.cc/MHd7pWGC/rifle-2009-4-Small.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
It may look like this in the safe/wall/rack, but then, it's for show.
(https://i.postimg.cc/fyVR3yqr/PICT0471.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
-
Personally I don’t think it looks goofy, I actually prefer it — can’t really say why, I guess I’ve always been under the impression that that’s how it was done in the old days so it holds an indefinable appeal — looks the way it “would have should have” looked. I prefer a coned muzzle for perhaps the same reason — we can debate whether coning impacts accuracy but as long as the loss isn’t drastic I’m willing to accept it in the interest of doing it how they did it. I tend to plink, i shoot at 100 yards generally and if I can pop gallon jugs I’m content. A man who is looking for cloverleaves will no doubt be more rigorous than I and less likely to trade accuracy for coned muzzle. To each his own, I say.
Practically, as I cut patches at the muzzle, it can be an inconvenience if the rod is left in the groove. But if I’m at the range I can take out the ramrod and lay it aside so it’s no bother, or if I keep my knife sharp enough, I can cut the patch towards the rod without cutting against the rod itself.
-
Just how far back can anyone actually date a picture of a southern rifle with the extra long rammer? 1880s-1890s? I don't see any advantage to the practice unless you have a permanent mounted wiper, then the extra length was a handle for wiping and loading.
-
I seem to have touched a nerve by using the word goofy.
It's the first one that came to mind. I could have been kinder.
-
LOL. The rod sticking out looks normal to me but I'm in E. TN and my focus is rifles made in the mountains.
Just my opinion so take it for what it is worth. Small powder charges coupled with small caliber ball does not take up a lot of bore space. So you don't have a lot of ramrod left to hold on to once you seat the ball. If you are loading and shooting in the field it helps to have a little extra rod sticking out to grip. Also a lot of these Mt. rifles only have a rod. No ramrod tip to screw in a jag. I've seen a couple that just have a grooves cut into the rod to grip a wiping patch.
Cheers,
Ken
(https://i.ibb.co/y4pNKTM/Ram-Rod-extending.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DrY1mX6)
-
If you actually hunt in the bush with a rod sticking out the muzzle, be mindful of catching it on a branch ortree and breaking it off at the pipe, or splitting the stock at the cross pin.
The further it sticks out, the more chance of catching it on something.
-
My rods are flush with the muzzle. Even so, from time to time, the rod ends up jutting out past the muzzle, and gets scorched by the fire ball at the shot, and I don't like that. So my rods are flush.
-
Good mornin all. I havent seen my idea expressed as yet. Bein as it is early in the day,and I havent had my evening toddy, this Might make sense.lol
I am certain most of you have had this experience. If you will look at fullstock rifles in general, most are finished at the muzzle with one of two styles.
the ones with oval type, the rr groove is usually trimmed back about 3 inches ,to facilitate grasping the rod and pulling out, without having the rod protruding past the muzzle. This helps us old arthritic guys, and some of us when younger with big ol meat hooks.
The other type, mostly on rounded foreends,doesnt usually have the undercut, and it is more difficult to get hold of the rod unless the rod is a bit longer than the barrel.
I have built several of both types,shot our woods walk with both, and have experienced the drawbacks/benefits of both. And hunting with a long rod catching everything but the game we are after ,especially in the Eastern woods, just aint a fun event.
I always look hard at all the SMR originals that pass thru here as to the muzzle treatment/nose finishing,just for this detail.
NOW, as my nickname/native name is RedBear, I be gettin hungry as said Bear, Time for some coffee and a bizkit.
Have a wonderful day bros and sis. Ol Bear gwin to feed. 8) 8)
-
My thoughts are as most things done were done for practical reasons and as it seems the long rods are most often seen on the guns of those who obviously spent sun up to sun down with their hands on a plow, hammer or shovel, it could have been a ‘thing’ due to carpal tunnel syndrome or the stiff hands of a man who spent 18 hours a day with something heavy in his hands. I can’t imagine a big old ham fisted farmer would trade symmetry for simple ease of use. I know before my own carpal tunnel surgery my squirrel gun which was shot 50x per week on average found it’s rod an inch longer than it used to be….
-
I find an inch or so helps with pulling the rod, particularly with gloves on when hunting in cold weather. Also mostly use a loading block when hunting so balls are
pre-patched which eliminates the need to cut at the muzzle. My short starter has the ball head flattened on opposite sides so it carries easier in the hunting bag and will slide by the rod extension. It all works well in the field. As far as looks, my rifle has aged far better than I, although I do have a few years on it.
-
I just thought I would mention that, over the years of going to matches, and looking over other folk's guns, I have seen more than a few which did not have the ramrod cavity drilled out deep enough , causing the rod to extend beyond the muzzle.
-
If you actually hunt in the bush with a rod sticking out the muzzle, be mindful of catching it on a branch ortree and breaking it off at the pipe, or splitting the stock at the cross pin.
The further it sticks out, the more chance of catching it on something.
I've snagged my rammer in the woods just because it wasn't seated fully-maybe out 1/2 or 3/4 of an inch. Absolutely no way I'm going out to hunt with an extended rammer. It would make more sense at matches where the vines and briars aren't crowding the train. Also, as Taylor notes, I don't like muzzle blast scorching of the rammer.
Of course honeysuckle didn't get here until early in the 20th century, but that we had plenty of NA native vines and briars BITD I'm sure.
-
Except for the 1st two which are somewhat current, I wish I could jump in the "way back machine" and just ask them. Some are really out there. Guess my thought is if it worked for those boys it will work for you.
(https://i.ibb.co/Pc0zkXJ/Old-photo-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LxHhKjB)
(https://i.ibb.co/gSB5Kk0/Old-photo-10.jpg) (https://ibb.co/X7vhRcn)
(https://i.ibb.co/vJbmFP1/Old-time-photos-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xMyGkjh)
(https://i.ibb.co/DCTdt4m/Old-time-photos-9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NjbRsxf)
(https://i.ibb.co/DDNjxkw/old-timey-photos-6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7JH0wVr)
(https://i.ibb.co/X3zCZ4d/Old-timey-photos-8.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
-
They only work in Tennessee/Kentucky, or perhaps only in Tennessee/Kentucky where they are necessary. :o
-
Except for the 1st two which are somewhat current, I wish I could jump in the "way back machine" and just ask them. Some are really out there. Guess my thought is if it worked for those boys it will work for you.[/url]
If we could go back in time and let them know just how darn silly we thought their long ramrods looked they’d probably just clip us on the forehead in mid sentence with their silly looking deep crescent buttplate and roll us in the ditch where we’d be found by the schoolmarm the next morning still sporting duck lips and our best disapproving look….
-
I need a LIKE button for Cades Cove Fidler, and Bob’s comment has me cracked up chuckling! 😂 🤣😂😂!
-
3rd picture up from bottom. One ramrod is too long and one is proper. Why? If the proper one works. Why have one longer?
-
I have several longrifles with rods protruding 1"-2" past the muzzle. They're easier to get a hold of, especially in wet or cold weather when the rod may swell up.
-
;D ;D... Well, Pete,.. might not be a rammer in that one at all,... !!! ... old Uncle Levi most likely just held the rifle gun up to allow the curious tourist to get a photo,... maybe was in the act of swabbing the barrel and just laid the stick aside,... betcha the rammer was the proper hand's length past the muzzle,... !!!... regards,... CCF ??? ???
-
I leave my ramrods long but not a hands width. Is that the norm? I use my ramrods for all loading and cleaning duties and the extra length sure helps especially if I have to pull a ball or have a tight cleaning patch. Everyone at my club seem to use a range rod. I don’t even own one. I even saw a guy carrying a range rod at a woods walk event in Illinois. Didn’t understand that at all.
-
;D ;D... Well, Pete,.. might not be a rammer in that one at all,... !!! ... old Uncle Levi most likely just held the rifle gun up to allow the curious tourist to get a photo,... maybe was in the act of swabbing the barrel and just laid the stick aside,... betcha the rammer was the proper hand's length past the muzzle,... !!!... regards,... CCF ??? ???
Your answer has maybe's and might's. Mine shows a picture. :)
-
I leave my ramrods long but not a hands width. Is that the norm? I use my ramrods for all loading and cleaning duties and the extra length sure helps especially if I have to pull a ball or have a tight cleaning patch. Everyone at my club seem to use a range rod. I don’t even own one. I even saw a guy carrying a range rod at a woods walk event in Illinois. Didn’t understand that at all.
Long is not the norm today because of aesthetics and because of the theoretical danger of snagging of a long rammer in thick brush (you have to get into thick brush for that to happen BTW) and though there was thick brush in 1840 the folks were likely smart enough to go around or carry their rifle backwards when needed. I don’t use a long rammer but I have experimented with them and have come to the conclusion that it is overall easier on the hands to load, especially the final seating, with an extended rammer, and that was likely 100% of the reason it was done.
-
Bob: first of all I know we are all glad you are back up and running (well walking slow). I agree and your wisdom once again shows through.
-
Folks did a lot of things different back in the day than we do now like load directly from a horn.
-
I think Bob was right. One look at their outfits pretty much tells you they don't care what "looks right"
-
Rods that stick way past the muzzle do get tangled up in the bush. A quick check through the safe today showed only two rods protruding past the muzzle. One was 1/4" longer and the other was 2/5" past the muzzle. And both rods were switched from another rifle. I usually have the appropriate jag with me when I shoot or hunt. If a rod stubbornly resists my attempt to pull it out I screw in the jag for a better grip.
-
My thoughts are as most things done were done for practical reasons and as it seems the long rods are most often seen on the guns of those who obviously spent sun up to sun down with their hands on a plow, hammer or shovel, it could have been a ‘thing’ due to carpal tunnel syndrome or the stiff hands of a man who spent 18 hours a day with something heavy in his hands. I can’t imagine a big old ham fisted farmer would trade symmetry for simple ease of use. I know before my own carpal tunnel surgery my squirrel gun which was shot 50x per week on average found it’s rod an inch longer than it used to be….
Right there with you Bob. My right hand is buggered from carpal, and I need those extra inches to get a good enough grip to pull the darn thing out. I find it makes it easier to seat the load as well, gives me something to hold onto.
-
I'm guessing the old guys were strong enough to swab with two fingers.
What does it say for those of us that don't use rods extended past the muzzle? We don't seem to need long rods. How come?
-
I am likely guessing, but didn't those (or some) long rods have grooves filed or cut into their ends to hold a patch for cleaning/wiping?
I am assuming they did not have screw-in jags (on the NA continent) even into the 1880's in much supply, that is. That alone could be
the reason for SMR gun makers to equip those guns with longer than the bl. rods. The extra length was needed where there was no
-screw-on jag furrel to start with.
Just a thought.
-
Not that I can add anything to the discussion, but those old photos MM posted are wonderful. I keep going back to study them, and the barefooted young feller really stands out. Well patched britches, overcoat getting a little too small, worn out hat, well used pouch and horn, etc.
Does anyone have any clue as to the make of his rifle. Looks to have a deep crescent SMR style butt but has a single trigger, extremely small cheek weld, and the forestock looks heavy. Wonder if he has to stand on that stump to load?
Bob
-
I am likely guessing, but didn't those (or some) long rods have grooves filed or cut into their ends to hold a patch for cleaning/wiping?
I am assuming they did not have screw-in jags (on the NA continent) even into the 1880's in much supply, that is. That alone could be
the reason for SMR gun makers to equip those guns with longer than the bl. rods. The extra length was needed where there was no
-screw-on jag furrel to start with.
Just a thought.
Did they use jags? One end of rod had brass fitting to load. The other end was bare wood that a tow worm screwed onto the wood.
-
I'm guessing the old guys were strong enough to swab with two fingers.
What does it say for those of us that don't use rods extended past the muzzle? We don't seem to need long rods. How come?
It probably says you don’t have worn out hands.
Seriously though, picture after picture from the period and region shows the longer rods in regular use. It had a purpose. It wasn’t done out of hillbilly ignorance or to spin up some hipster from the future. And to getting snagged in the brush all these pics are taken of and by folks who likely slept surrounded by thick brush and I’m sure there weren’t rednecks hung up in the brush all over the countyside for crispy’s sake.
I can tell you 100% that a small caliber tight combo loaded with no range rod, short starter, and a dirty bore is night and day easier to seat like this:
(https://i.ibb.co/0sSWzL6/D2154-DD5-E461-4526-B2-F0-D42-CF4-A80-CA6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8YpRQwf)
…than like this.
(https://i.ibb.co/6nWwMVL/C824-DDA3-44-C3-4052-8788-C50658930-FB9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YRLQCYw)
It’s not even close.
Here’s a few more of my observations since my blood is already up:
Perhaps the pic of the man with the two rifles one of which has a long rod and the other seems to have a short rod is posing with brace of his rifles and his single ramrod.
Perhaps a feller made or bought his rods to service his longest barreled gun and so when his shorter barreled guns were in use they expressed themselves with an extended rod.
-
Very interesting. Thank you, I never thought of the seating set being easier with that longer rod. May have to give that a try. 👍
-
Not that I can add anything to the discussion ... Wonder if he has to stand on that stump to load?
Bob
Bob I can tell you this, that in TN timberland or hill country, you just stand uphill of the longer guns and shove the butt down the hill to the left or right a little bit, as you favor, to get the muzzle to any height you desire.
-
Just use a tree to push in the last few inches. Lot's of those around. :)
Tow is easy on the grip. It doesn't get stuck like patches.
-
I’m going to paddle up the creek a bit. My canoe’s scraping bottom….
-
Paddle harder.
-
No need to "get your blood up", Bob. be 8)
This is simply a conversation about a topic that seems localized to a fairly small area of the US.
It is not often found, elsewhere around the world.
-
Oh, it’s not really up Daryl, shallow water notwithstanding, but yea, I find it no stranger than separate wiping sticks, store bought crossed sticks, OH/Southern crescent buttplates and it’s corresponding shooting stance, slings, or any other geographic/regional trait, and certainly not very hard to comprehend. I submit if you lived then and there and shot what they shot, in the way they shot, for the reasons they shot, you’d probably have 3” of surplus rod yourself. ;)
All in good fun.
-
Indeed,Bob, just good fun,and I have enjoyed this thread immensely, and a whole lot too. :-*
Spent today in the shop inlettting rr pipes on a Iron gal. Myron Carlson hardware, Tennessee Classic style. Rr pipes tight on 5/16rr,so had to work rod down to clear pipes. Snoot full of dust.
42 inches barl,48 of rod. Guess what is sticking out from the muzzle?lol
Have a wunnerful evening fellows.
Best regards Dave 8) 8)
-
Rods that stick way past the muzzle do get tangled up in the bush. A quick check through the safe today showed only two rods protruding past the muzzle. One was 1/4" longer and the other was 2/5" past the muzzle. And both rods were switched from another rifle. I usually have the appropriate jag with me when I shoot or hunt. If a rod stubbornly resists my attempt to pull it out I screw in the jag for a better grip.
I’m as noisy as a freight train on anything rougher than pavement and could get tangled up in a front garden, nevermind the woods!
But for people more accustomed to the woods than I...Considering that long barrel, bits like frizzens and cocks sticking out, I tend to think a few extra inches of ramrod wouldn’t make the difference between getting snagged or not.
-
Oh, it’s not really up Daryl, shallow water notwithstanding, but yea, I find it no stranger than separate wiping sticks, store bought crossed sticks, OH/Southern crescent buttplates and it’s corresponding shooting stance, slings, or any other geographic/regional trait, and certainly not very hard to comprehend. I submit if you lived then and there and shot what they shot, in the way they shot, for the reasons they shot, you’d probably have 3” of surplus rod yourself. ;)
All in good fun.
I dunno Bob...I'm thinking now I'm going to have to go trim down all my ramrods...Peer pressure...before long, I'm going to have to have COVID-19 papers to go anywhere and a ramrod flush with the muzzle...Gotta meet the new 'Merica requirements. I must conform and quit holding onto the old ways...
Nah. On second thought, I ain't touching my ramrods, I ain't succoming to "short ramrod syndrome"; because "long ramrods MATTER" (and to the original question on this blog, they don't affect accuracy or point of aim on my rifles)!
:)
-
Rods that stick way past the muzzle do get tangled up in the bush. A quick check through the safe today showed only two rods protruding past the muzzle. One was 1/4" longer and the other was 2/5" past the muzzle. And both rods were switched from another rifle. I usually have the appropriate jag with me when I shoot or hunt. If a rod stubbornly resists my attempt to pull it out I screw in the jag for a better grip.
I’m as noisy as a freight train on anything rougher than pavement and could get tangled up in a front garden, nevermind the woods!
But for people more accustomed to the woods than I...Considering that long barrel, bits like frizzens and cocks sticking out, I tend to think a few extra inches of ramrod wouldn’t make the difference between getting snagged or not.
I catch a few twigs/leaves with that extra 4" of ramrod, but not enough to matter.
And when I'm intentionally punching through those laurel thickets here in North GA, just like you said in your post, I've learned to turn the rifle and go through butt first. Otherwise, my hammer is getting snagged and I run the risk of it being pulled back and firing. Wouldn't matter as I hunt by myself and would be hard pressed to shoot myself with 42-46" of barrel on my rifles, but I don't need the unexpected excitement of the boom or scortched skin from touchhole!
I keep a short ramrod for gun-safe storage, putting in the gun case and truck travel. But I put in my longer ramrod to hunt with, especially squirrel hunting when I might want to swab the bore on occassion or want to rough-clean if I've shot in the morning and want to clean-up the barrel. Longer ramrod is just so much easier to work with. I've had the super-tight cleaning patch and grabbing an inch nubb of ramrod has ticked me off enough times I go with a longer ramrod in the field.
Let's keep this post running hard! We need 10 pages! LOL!
-
FWIW, some years ago I had my .36 with me on the sofa and the rod was protruding out a couple of inches for some reason or other. My tiny min pin, Sissy, jumped up into my lap, snagged the rr tip easily snapping off the two wayward inches of ramrod.
-
That ought to teach you to always use steel rods, hanshi.
::) just kidding.
-
And again, I'll ask just when those pictures date to. Let me give you a hint. If it's printed on card stock, it's from the later 1850s at the earliest, and then mostly in the form of Carte de Visite until much later. Denim overalls were invented in the 1890s. Pinched top or creased hats started to appear occasionally by the mid 1860s and became quite the vogue by the 1880s. I would be confident in dating those pictures from 1890-1910ish.
-
And again, I'll ask just when those pictures date to. Let me give you a hint. If it's printed on card stock, it's from the later 1850s at the earliest, and then mostly in the form of Carte de Visite until much later. Denim overalls were invented in the 1890s. Pinched top or creased hats started to appear occasionally by the mid 1860s and became quite the vogue by the 1880s. I would be confident in dating those pictures from 1890-1910ish.
Down here that’s the middle of the flintlock period.
-
FWIW, some years ago I had my .36 with me on the sofa and the rod was protruding out a couple of inches for some reason or other. My tiny min pin, Sissy, jumped up into my lap, snagged the rr tip easily snapping off the two wayward inches of ramrod.
Hanshi, I feed my hound daily with my long ramrod…no issues…I think you need to rename that poor dog of yours! You are doing it a disservice by calling it “sissy”. I have attached a picture to prove my 1/2 truth. Maybe my hound is a sissy…dang it!
(https://i.ibb.co/vdzqYtR/9-DE7-A025-6-BD5-44-E1-AC4-A-79982311-A487.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YdjQZrw)
-
Mystery of the ramrod extension solved!
Ken
-
You know folks, I cannot help thinking that all of us are visualizing the woods of that time period with the woods as we know them today. Being an old retired "timber beast", I think that they were dealing with a much more open forest than the cutover and regrowth forest of today. If memory serves, serious logging of the Smokies, for instance, started in the 1880s +/-. As far as going into a "laurel $#*!" (rhododendron thickets to me and you) or an "ivy slick" (mountain laurel thicket), anyone who has spent time in the Appalachian knows to avoid those when possible, hence the name of those thickets. They will take the clothes off of your back!
J.B.
-
It makes more sense to me to has threaded brass fitting on both ends of the rod. I can then screw what I want on the rod. I use a wooden ball with a threaded stud screwed into it. It screws into the rod and gives me a good grip on the rod. I'd prefer that to a rod sticking out and no matter how long the rod is it will never give you the grip that a round ball will. Especially, for those who use patches to swab the bore. They like to get stuck.
https://www.octobercountry.com/msm-palm-saver/
-
Hey JB, It was someone back in your department one time that told me all of NC's forests except the Joyce Kilmer Forest had been cut at least once by 1900. Some of those old photos of the mountains clear cut with horrible erosion look pretty nasty. Lots of rickety old logging railroads clinging precariously to slopes. It was a different time for sure. God Bless, Marc
-
At one time, with replacement ram rods, I used ferules on both ends, one with 8x32 and the other end 10x32 threads.
-
This is an old thread so I intend to get the last word…saw this on Facebook. Old TN rifle with another old time idiot that used a long ramrod… they just didn’t know any better back then (when they had to depend on their gun). Glad we know better…and are more efficient and effective!! 🤣
(https://i.ibb.co/4Z2WrLX/E28-B0-C86-7-B0-F-4-A75-922-D-09-D133-E6-BAD1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nsBrJyY)
(https://i.ibb.co/3NFrdpd/FB634570-9-EF9-4-B55-8-F3-B-AA37-C8-C2-C93-D.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1qXvQrQ)
-
Why, that ramroot's too long, everybody know that.
-
I hate it when the ramroots to long. ;D
-
C’mon guys don’t make me feel like I’m at home…I wanted last word!! 🤣
-
This subject seems to have ruffled some feathers. ;D
I would still like to see some evidence of this extra long rammer phenom showing that it occurred before the the cartridge gun era, and deep into the era at that.
-
Hmmm - what does the ctg. gun era have to do with long rods? ???
Are you saying that this one only got the long rod added after the ctg. gun era commensed?
(https://i.ibb.co/3NFrdpd/FB634570-9-EF9-4-B55-8-F3-B-AA37-C8-C2-C93-D.jpg)
What would today, constitute proof they were made that way - prior to "photography" (ctg. gun era).
-
It is my opinion that a over long ram rod only makes sense if the end has been sharpened ...sort of a built in spear kind of thing ;D
-
Round here folks always used to call em "fishing rifles" cause, you fish with em. Can't feel any action on the hook if you don't have a long enuf ramrod. ;D
(https://i.ibb.co/y0BP2q4/IMG-5579.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Tcq2ytW)
-
Man, you guys have made my evenings a joy by reading all this. Best regards to all yall . Dave 8) 8)
-
mabey the guys in the old pictures weren't walking around doing there shooting from a mowed path and wanted something to get hold of quickly,least they loose some hair.
-
mabey the guys in the old pictures weren't walking around doing there shooting from a mowed path and wanted something to get hold of quickly,least they loose some hair.
I would say your right about that.
-
Come on Daryl. ;D Photography extends back into the end of the flint era. I’ve looked at a great many photographs of southern folks with guns and evidence of extended rammers are excruciatingly hard to find before photos that can easily be dated post 1880s. Once the real danger passed, they invented the easily grabbed yet snag-o-matic rammer.
-
I hunted Eastern bush (South Western Ontario) for about 13 years. Yes - the long rods would to oft times caught in cedar bush
but would work OK in the hardwoods, where there was not much underbrush.
So - maybe they are a "late" thingie?
-
So - maybe they are a "late" thingie?
At least from the posted imagery I’ve seen, that is the conclusion I would come too. I’ve yet to see a pre-war (CW) image that shows this phenomenon.
-
Shopdog
Those are quite the fishing shoes!
Fleener
-
The collection of non military muzzleloaders in the Buffalo Bill Museum in Cody shows ramrods mostly equal to barrel length. There are a few with RR's longer than the barrel, likely an inch or so. There is also a Henry & Son Trade rifle in 38 caliber that has a ramrod that is 2 to 3 inches shorter than the barrel. Based on all the wisdom shared above, that must mean that the owner had really long fingers, shot really heavy loads, or part of the ramrod got chewed off by a bear who was not happy being shot with a lowly 38 caliber rifle.
-
Rammers shorter than the barrel was not exactly unheard of. Some French Fusils had this feature. In regard to that .38 I would guess that rammer might have snapped off, and unless you saw the full rammer in the display, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was simply displayed with as much rammer as it has left just sitting in the pipes.
-
Round here folks always used to call em "fishing rifles" cause, you fish with em. Can't feel any action on the hook if you don't have a long enuf ramrod. ;D
(https://i.ibb.co/y0BP2q4/IMG-5579.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Tcq2ytW)
Now that just made me LAUGH!!!! Love the shoes too!
Curtis
-
Did anyone even notice the fish shoes? That right there is funny….I don’t care who you are. 😂
-
Yep, seen em right off!! Just waitin to see whichn of yall said sompin first. You guys do not dis appoint.lol
Gotta be da shoozz. Have a wunnerful day,Dave 8) 8)
-
Say, do yall suppose ol bro curly about to win the prize for longest running thread? Seems he should get a piece of raisin pie for all this fun an a goin on. Best regards, Dave :-* :-*
-
Ken's comment about the small bores needing a little more rod-reach to be functional is a good one.
I rather think that all this worry about a lot of exposed rod catching on brush is a 20th century thing - wait, 21st century. Time flies. In the time most of these original rifles were built, the landscape was draped in virgin forest. I've not encountered much "brush" in the bona fide virgin woods I have walked.
I let the rod on my most recent rifle protrude 1.25". I kind of like the look, but it certainly does get a scorching out there. What do we call that - self-shortening?
-
Ken's comment about the small bores needing a little more rod-reach to be functional is a good one.
Why is that, if the rod channel is deep enough?
The rod for my .36 is bore length and it does just fine because by the time I get the 35 to 40gr. charge in it and the patched ball, the rod sticks up
about 1 1/2" above the muzzle.
That is all or even more than is needed for loading and to see if it's loaded & it does not protrude beyond the muzzle when it's in the pipes, in fact
the front end is below the end of the muzzle when fully seated in the rifle for carrying.
-
Hey guys,.................sorry I asked in the first place!! :
-
It's OK, curly - brings up some dialogue - that's what we're here for.