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General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: wayoutwest on June 16, 2021, 06:57:26 PM

Title: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: wayoutwest on June 16, 2021, 06:57:26 PM
Hi Ya'll. I purchased a .36cal SMR kit in Extra Fancy Maple back in October of 2020. It has a Rice barrel so I think its one of the older kits.

I did about 40% of the build before I realized I was in over my head. I found an old retired Air Force dude who has built 20+ rifles and had 2 in progress when I went to his shop. I ended up paying him to finish the rifle. Unfortunately he kind of took a lot of liberties with the gun like taking apart the triggers. In doing so the trigger is now far too heavy. I've adjusted it all the way until just before the rear trigger doesn't disengage and it's still a very heavy pull. Gone is the light, snappy hair trigger that shipped with the kit...I asked the builder and he said if I removed the trigger guard and triggers I would never get them back in...Is there anything I can do here?

The builder also found the ram rod channel too tight so he drilled it and caused a fracture in the stock. I've attached a pic below. How worried should I be about this? Is there anything I can do to strengthen the stock?

Lastly, somehow the lockjaw bolt became bent?? Picture of the bent bolt below. Not really sure how to proceed here…the trigger being heavy is annoying but workable, the stock being split hopefully is just cosmetic, but if I can’t install a flint then the rifle is just a really expensive wall hanger…I hope that’s not the case!


Thanks for your time and any help.

Warm regards,
(https://i.ibb.co/QjDbVzr/image-50380033.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tPLm6k8)

(https://i.ibb.co/yfpc37q/image-6487327.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Ssc4LGB)
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: rich pierce on June 16, 2021, 07:21:00 PM
Sounds like you need a new builder/gunsmith to look this over. Sorry a great kit turned out to be a headache.
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Scota4570 on June 16, 2021, 07:22:46 PM
I'd demand a refund.  He is a hack pretending to be a gunsmith.  The ramrod channel does not need drilling.  The ram rod need thinning.  That is a normal part of the build.  This proves he is an idiot posing as a gunsmith.

Gluing the stock will not work because the wood is saturated with finish. 

Call Kibler.  He might have a new stock.  Sent the trigger back to Kibler for repair

Sorry you got taken. 
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: FlintFan on June 16, 2021, 07:37:17 PM
The top jaw screw was bent due to dry firing the lock, either by the gunsmith or you. 

Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: little joe on June 16, 2021, 07:52:53 PM
Hard to explain but possibly the front trigger is contacting the sear befor the rear trigger is released making a hard trigger pull.I also think possibly the crack is a stress crack.
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Mike Brooks on June 16, 2021, 08:02:46 PM
Your builder owes you a new Kibler kit.
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: smart dog on June 16, 2021, 08:03:48 PM
Hi,
The kit is not that old because it looks to have Jim Kibler's own lock not Chambers.  The crack could easily be from drilling out the ramrod hole.  Enlarging a ramrod hole is fraught with risk if you just try to drill it out.  There is a tendency for the drill, rather than to cut into the wood, to wedge its way into the existing hole and crack the stock. That is particularly true when the stock has been shaped to final form because there is now little mass of wood to resist cracking. The crack can be glued very nicely with superglue and if done right, won't show at all. 

dave 
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: smylee grouch on June 16, 2021, 08:04:10 PM
Would replacing the top jaw screw and removing a little off the top of the front trigger help with some of your problems?
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: WadePatton on June 16, 2021, 08:08:21 PM
I'd demand a refund.  He is a hack pretending to be a gunsmith.  The ramrod channel does not need drilling.  The ram rod need thinning.  That is a normal part of the build.  This proves he is an idiot posing as a gunsmith.

Gluing the stock... (see Dave's post)

Call Kibler.  He might have a new stock.  Sent the trigger back to Kibler for repair

Sorry you got taken.

Your builder owes you a new Kibler kit.

I concur.  You hired someone who only pretended to be better than you think you are.  Hope you can get it worked out/patched up enough to enjoy.

Patched up guns are kinda cool if they're patched up in the style of the period. I hope you can find a longrifle person to help you from here out.  Modern gun (only) guys keep proving to us that they do not have a clue.
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Scota4570 on June 16, 2021, 09:32:24 PM
This kind of thing makes me angry. 

I did not see the lock damage before. 

We only see the mayhem on the outside.  What did he do inside?  I agree that the hack owes the OP for the kit.  Somehow I doubt he is honest enough to honor that obligation. 
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Kmcmichael on June 16, 2021, 09:44:17 PM
Mistakes were made. The gun can be fixed. If you want to sell it, you should be able. If you are near someone on here they might do it.  I am in DFW. You can message me if you wish.
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Frank on June 16, 2021, 09:44:47 PM
Your builder owes you a new Kibler kit.

Totally agree. This joker owes you a new Kibler kit. He screwed up the lock, triggers, and stock. He may have screwed up the barrel as well. No way to know until you shoot it, but it can’t be shot in it’s present condition. Personally, based on his incompetence, I would be afraid to shoot it.
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Stoner creek on June 16, 2021, 09:55:19 PM
My question is: How can any “compentant” gun maker screw up one of those kits?
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: smallpatch on June 16, 2021, 10:06:21 PM
I agree with Stoner, these things are Lego’s . Nearly snap together.
I’ve recently had to repair a rifle that an “experienced “ builder put together for a friend. It amazes me what some people will accept as craftsmanship.
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: mountainman70 on June 16, 2021, 10:09:08 PM
My question exactly, Stoner. Reading this made me angry. Almost enough to go make a toddy, but I will wait til after 9pm when all the Wild Foks on here come out fer the evenin.
Good luck getting squared away. It aint hopeless,as has been said. Best regards, and welcome. Dave F  8) 8)
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: kudu on June 16, 2021, 11:46:54 PM
Your builder owes you a new Kibler kit.

Totally agree. This joker owes you a new Kibler kit. He screwed up the lock, triggers, and stock. He may have screwed up the barrel as well. No way to know until you shoot it, but it can’t be shot in it’s present condition. Personally, based on his incompetence, I would be afraid to shoot it.
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: David Rase on June 16, 2021, 11:59:50 PM
wayoutwest,
Where exactly is your location?  Are you way out west like in the western United States.  I am sure once we know your location that you could be directed to a competent BLACKPOWDER gunmaker who could analyze your areas of concern and make a few recommendations.
David
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Spalding on June 17, 2021, 01:16:32 AM
Not quite sure what he meant when he said if you removed the guard and triggers you’d never be able to replace them. Why? Two pins and two screws. On Jim’s site it also mentions thinning the ramrod to fit the hole in the stock. A little sanding on the rod and it slips in. I had to take a little meat off the set trigger sear on my Kibler SMR but other than that the trigger works perfectly.
Sorry this happened to you, looks like a nice piece of wood.
Bob
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Randall Steffy on June 17, 2021, 02:03:56 AM
My take on the state of affairs regarding your less-than-perfect rifle is this. What is done, is done. Why beat up the guy you chose to finish the rifle after you did 40% of the work, as some here so strenuously suggest? Will exacting a pound of flesh from him, make him discontinue his hobby or make you happier tomorrow? That would be a no, for me.
Yes, he should not have drilled out the ramrod hole. Now you simply need to have the crack filled with superglue as some here can expertly do or can oversee. Don't just wing it. The rifle is not seriously compromised, strength-wise, by this crack, in my opinion.
The triggers should be studied and likely removed for a repair, and I would leave this to someone knowledgeable in these triggers and this kit. Jim Kibler would be my first phone call here.
The lock screw could likely be straightened by someone, as I know I would try this for myself. Again, the repair requires experience. Or just buy a new screw, and no dry-firing without a flint properly fitted, please.
I don't sense despair on your part, and you need not either. You are on your way to a very nice rifle and you can learn from this experience, the advise and very many lessons on this site and give another kit a go sometime. Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Stoner creek on June 17, 2021, 02:57:20 AM
No gunmaker worth his salt would deliver a piece in this condition. Period..... I cannot stress this more firmly. These Kibler kits aren’t that tough to assemble. They were designed that way for a reason.
 Were I the customer I would in the very least demand my money back.
 We can get all touchy-feely about this but the guy screwed up and delivered his customer a piece of $#*&. This kind of work gives all of us who care about the craft an appearance of being hacks.
 I have destroyed projects that weren’t up to snuff in the past rather than trying to pass it off as good work. I will take a loss on a project before I’ll deliver a #$@*. Th OPs maker should do the same. Perhaps the OP should have asked for help on this forum first. His outcome would have probably been better.
 The big guy has had his say.......
W
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Gaeckle on June 17, 2021, 03:15:06 AM
My question is: How can any “compentant” gun maker screw up one of those kits?



Lots and lots of alcohol, blindfolded perhaps, took one, maybe two more pills than need be, mistakenly put his wife's glasses on rather than his, the sun was in his eyes, his suit was at the cleaners, he had a splinter, the dog ate the instructions, he was abducted by little green men, his depth perception was thrown off because he was wearing high heels, all these reasons and a bunch more.

Ratz! Sorry Stoner, I didn't see the word 'competent'.
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: oldtravler61 on June 17, 2021, 03:30:37 AM
  Your repair guy might have built ( ? ) a certain amount of guns, but what did he learn while building them ? Obviously not much..!
 In my opinion he should at least return your money or replace the stock. The lock is an easy fix. How he screwed those triggers up is beyond me !
  The guy is obviously not what he says he is.
  Oldtravler
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Scota4570 on June 17, 2021, 03:51:41 AM
Looks like the OP disappeared.  I hope he is reading this.  IT might be persuasive to ask the hack "builder" to read this thread.  It might persuade him to refund the money and pay for the kit?  Maybe........

Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: BadDaditood on June 17, 2021, 06:58:31 AM
Unfortunately today “gunsmith” translates to “Glock parts changer”
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Dutch Blacky on June 17, 2021, 07:37:44 AM
It is for me a little bit irritating , that the OP apparently is not taking part on the discussion. But he only mentioned,  "an old retired Air Force dude who has built 20+ rifles and had 2 in progress when I went to his shop. " No gunsmith.

It seems not to be so easy to finish a Kibler Kit!
I have put together ten or more  spanish replica kits back in the 1980s. A little bit of sanding, polishing,  staining, blueing ....... that was easy to do!
But a Kibler Kit seems to require more skills! I wonder if my own skills would be good enough?
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: porchdog48 on June 17, 2021, 12:43:46 PM
My Dad used to say some people have 20 years experience, and some have one years experience 20 times.
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Mike Brooks on June 17, 2021, 01:36:15 PM
It is for me a little bit irritating , that the OP apparently is not taking part on the discussion. But he only mentioned,  "an old retired Air Force dude who has built 20+ rifles and had 2 in progress when I went to his shop. " No gunsmith.

It seems not to be so easy to finish a Kibler Kit!
I have put together ten or more  spanish replica kits back in the 1980s. A little bit of sanding, polishing,  staining, blueing ....... that was easy to do!
But a Kibler Kit seems to require more skills! I wonder if my own skills would be good enough?
I can and have assembled these kits in 3-4 hours ready to sand/scrape and finish.
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Bob Roller on June 17, 2021, 02:48:30 PM
Your builder owes you a new Kibler kit.

That's for sure and this proves there are people who can break an anvil with a rubber hammer.
None of this is Kibler's fault and that trigger is as simple as mine and I wonder how it got messed
up.
Bob Roller
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Ross Dillion on June 17, 2021, 02:53:15 PM
Remember guys there are two sides to every story. The original poster said the rifle was 40% complete and he had run into problems. Was the rifle 40% complete or 40% hosed up?  What happened to the triggers? Was the stock cracked by driving a too tight ramrod into the hole/channel? I’d like to hear the “builders” side of the story.
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: rich pierce on June 17, 2021, 03:33:59 PM
Original posters have no obligation to engage in back and forth conversation. A situation was presented and questions asked. A number of suggestions were given. This isn’t a nail-biting, cliff-hanger mystery TV show like “Who killed JR?” The OP has plenty to work with and can make a private decision on a course of action.

Not sure why anyone would want to make a fellow member’s bad situation worse by being irritated with them.
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: wayoutwest on June 17, 2021, 06:50:42 PM
Really appreciate all the helpful replies. I've been trying to figure out next steps here but all the insights have given me some perspective. Its true that the builder I used is not a professional gunsmith. I called several in the area (Front Range, Colorado) but none would take on the project. It is of course a risk to use a non-professional but I visited his shop and spent 6 hours working on the rifle with him. Based on my time with him I was fully confident that for the $500 I would pay him I would receive a completed and solid gun...

If anyone has any recommendations of long rifle builders who might take on this repair and refinish project I am all for suggestions. I still have the box the kit came in so I am willing to ship it if need be.

The top jaw screw was bent due to dry firing the lock, either by the gunsmith or you.

I have only triggered the lock when a flint was securely in place. When I handed the kit over it was in fine shape...


Remember guys there are two sides to every story. The original poster said the rifle was 40% complete and he had run into problems. Was the rifle 40% complete or 40% hosed up?  What happened to the triggers? Was the stock cracked by driving a too tight ramrod into the hole/channel? I’d like to hear the “builders” side of the story.

Completely agree about two sides to every story. which is why I didn't use harsher language and tried to remain fair. When I handed the kit over there were no issues whatsoever with the wood or the hardware. I decided BEFORE any real problems arose that this was just more than I had in me. Mostly due to the fact I don't have my own shop. I used a shared makerspace and had to pack up and unpack the entire project every day. I felt like I would ruin the stock at some point doing this. Before handing it over to the builder I had successfully fitted the butt plate, finished what little inletting there was for the triggers, lock, and barrel. Before leaving him with the kit we fitted the underbarrel lugs and sights together in his shop. The crack in the stock came from drilling the ramrod hole. He used a power drill on it...


It is for me a little bit irritating , that the OP apparently is not taking part on the discussion. But he only mentioned,  "an old retired Air Force dude who has built 20+ rifles and had 2 in progress when I went to his shop. " No gunsmith.

It seems not to be so easy to finish a Kibler Kit!
I have put together ten or more  spanish replica kits back in the 1980s. A little bit of sanding, polishing,  staining, blueing ....... that was easy to do!
But a Kibler Kit seems to require more skills! I wonder if my own skills would be good enough?

my apologies I didn't reply back immediately to all responses...To your point though, the builder did say the kit was much more challenging to put together than is suggested elsewhere, but it's my feeling he rushed through a lot of it without taking his time.

Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Ken G on June 17, 2021, 07:46:18 PM
Wayoutwest,

Very sorry to hear how much problems you are having.  You mentioned the builder had built 20+ rifles.  Were they muzzleloaders or modern rifles?  I hope he did not take a your money or at least gave you a serious discount. 
Maybe someone in the Colorado area from this forum can help you out.  Having to pay shipping to and from someone else is just salt in the wound for what has already happened.

Good luck,
Ken
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: wayoutwest on June 17, 2021, 07:53:12 PM
Wayoutwest,

Very sorry to hear how much problems you are having.  You mentioned the builder had built 20+ rifles.  Were they muzzleloaders or modern rifles?  I hope he did not take a your money or at least gave you a serious discount. 
Maybe someone in the Colorado area from this forum can help you out.  Having to pay shipping to and from someone else is just salt in the wound for what has already happened.

Good luck,
Ken

Thanks Ken. They were muzzleloaders, including full stock long rifles. He had 2 in progress carved from a blank stock that had already been inletted sitting in his shop. I think the issue here is he just went way to fast and wasn't used to the thin wood and meager tolerances of the already mostly finished Kibler kit. Unfortunately, he did take my money and is not willing to refund any, even though I've asked. He's offered to glue the stock, fix the triggers and fix the lock jaw bolt, but I'm wary...If there were a forum member near by or anyone had a referral for an established gun builder I might prefer that, even if it costs me more money...
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Scota4570 on June 17, 2021, 07:56:02 PM
I suggest calling Jim Kibler and see what he can do.  His fee to assemble the kit is $600, if I recall right.  The finishing part could be done on the kitchen table by you.   Jim also has access to quality builders  who can be trusted. 

Betcha a nickel he is following this thread. 

Unfortunately, he did take my money and is not willing to refund any, even though I've asked.

I think it is appropriate to out him here and on other forums.  Maybe the moderator can comment.  Can you do yelp reviews to warn others?

The gun hobby attracts some individuals who are "off".  You found one.   They are often delusional about there skills and knowledge.  I see lots of really pathetic ML builds on other forums and from people who fancy themselves as ML builders.  This includes some who put themselves out as professionals.   I know of one in my area who is prone to grandiose thinking and narcissistic tendencies.  The ones who pose as gunsmiths and mutilate guns for unsuspecting customers really get under my skin. 
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Ross Dillion on June 17, 2021, 08:10:10 PM
It’s sad that it was delivered to you in this condition and he still charged you $500. The last kit I assembled for someone was a cheap Spainish Hawken that turned into a complete nightmare. I made $50 on that one. Mainly did it as a favor for a guy I worked with. 
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: WadePatton on June 17, 2021, 08:53:44 PM
If I was out there, I'd fix it for dat-gummed free.

Triggers, bolt, crack, touch up. done.

If it were my gun, I'd not even think about letting that fellow mess with it again. THAT he has experience with longrifles and buggered up a Kibler kit, and DELIVERED IT buggered up-- tells me to steer clear forevermore.  The time for him to fix things was before delivery.

The admonition that you'd "never get them back in" on the triggers just makes no sense to me.  But obviously I don't think like he does.

Hope some forum folks can help you out. Often those lessons we learn best are those we learn hardest.
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Eric Krewson on June 17, 2021, 09:45:48 PM
I sent you a PM with pictures, I did the same thing on my SMR forestock, had a senior moment while I was sanding the ramrod down, easy fix.
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: smallpatch on June 18, 2021, 01:14:39 AM
ANY competent builder should be able to completely ASSEMBLE a Kibler SMR in about 6-8 hours.  Any builder knows a ramrod should be reduced to fit.
Don’t know how he messed up the trigger, but that’s not rocket science either.  The top jaw screw is definitely a rookie mistake.
Ok, rant over.  What part of the world are you located in? I’d fix it for you, gratis!
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Kmcmichael on June 18, 2021, 02:43:16 AM
There is not much a easier than a Kibler kit. In fact I am worried that shooting it won’t be as pleasurable as assembling it.
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: smallpatch on June 18, 2021, 04:34:16 AM
KMc,
It will!
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Dennis Glazener on June 18, 2021, 05:01:43 AM

Quote
I think it is appropriate to out him here and on other forums.  Maybe the moderator can comment.  Can you do yelp reviews to warn others?

Sorry, not here on ALR.
Dennis
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: oldtravler61 on June 18, 2021, 04:57:24 PM
  Wayoutwest, sad that this person took advantage of you. But it now is a dead horse.
Like others have said the repairs are easy. But the stock crack should be fixed by someone that knows what there doing.
 You have a couple of options. You can contact Jim Kibler see if he has a replacement stock. A set of triggers. Easy repairs.
 Oldtravler
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Mike Lyons on June 19, 2021, 11:26:01 AM
It is what it is. That’s more than likely going to be the gun you’re stuck with.  Doubt he buys you a new gun and I wouldn’t let him fix it.  If the amount of money you paid is worth your time and effort to get back,  you could take him to small claims court. I’ve seen several posts on here from mostly first time builders, just like yours. They are basically rookie mistakes.  Just bounce around here and search away on any issue you can think of or ask questions.  There’s a lot of people on here that have walked people through gun building from start to finish the right way.  Recreating The American Longrifle is a good book to start out with.  You need to pull the lock and triggers out to see what’s buggered up internally. 
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Curly Bean on June 19, 2021, 10:55:19 PM
The Kimber southern mountain kit was easy to assemble and beautiful to look at. 
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Mike Brooks on June 20, 2021, 02:00:15 AM
The Kimber southern mountain kit was easy to assemble and beautiful to look at.
Hey here Curly Bean!
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Mike Brooks on June 20, 2021, 02:00:42 AM
It is what it is. That’s more than likely going to be the gun you’re stuck with.  Doubt he buys you a new gun and I wouldn’t let him fix it.  If the amount of money you paid is worth your time and effort to get back,  you could take him to small claims court. I’ve seen several posts on here from mostly first time builders, just like yours. They are basically rookie mistakes.  Just bounce around here and search away on any issue you can think of or ask questions.  There’s a lot of people on here that have walked people through gun building from start to finish the right way.  Recreating The American Longrifle is a good book to start out with.  You need to pull the lock and triggers out to see what’s buggered up internally.
Hey there stranger!
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Mike Lyons on June 21, 2021, 04:22:39 AM
It is what it is. That’s more than likely going to be the gun you’re stuck with.  Doubt he buys you a new gun and I wouldn’t let him fix it.  If the amount of money you paid is worth your time and effort to get back,  you could take him to small claims court. I’ve seen several posts on here from mostly first time builders, just like yours. They are basically rookie mistakes.  Just bounce around here and search away on any issue you can think of or ask questions.  There’s a lot of people on here that have walked people through gun building from start to finish the right way.  Recreating The American Longrifle is a good book to start out with.  You need to pull the lock and triggers out to see what’s buggered up internally.
Hey there stranger!

Hey Mike.  Sorry about being a stranger but,  my wife saw me building guns and evidently bought a home improvement business.  It’s run by her and I’m the only worker.   It only involves my house and all expenses come out of my bank account.  Hopefully if work slows down in the unusual business and my body don’t give out,,  I’ll get back into leather and guns.
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Craig Wilcox on June 21, 2021, 03:20:05 PM
One of the few advantages of not having a wife.  Another is that if your dinner is burned, you have to go look in the mirror to find the culprit.

Wayoutwest, a day or two with Mike Brooks will set you on the right track.  He is a pretty fair builder and repairer.
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Jim Kibler on June 21, 2021, 05:27:19 PM
Wayoutwest,

Sorry for the late reply and sorry for your difficulty.  We want every single customer to have success with our products, so if we can help, just let us know.  It's unfortunate you had a bad experience with the fellow who assembled your kit. 

All the best,
Jim
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: hanshi on June 21, 2021, 09:36:06 PM
It appears your "builder" is a fraud.  Moral behavior aside, he should replace the kit or refund your money to be remotely considered a builder.  The fact he warned you not to remove the trigger or trigger guard throws up a big red flag, IMHO.  Difficult to know what else is wrong.  What he left you is a "craps-shoot", and I'm guessing you don't shoot craps.

I would not try and fire the rifle in its present condition; it should be checked by a REAL ML smith before you do.  While it is likely salvageable it will take a professional or professional level ML builder such as are on this forum.  Good advice so far, and good luck.
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: DrLaw45 on July 02, 2021, 09:34:58 PM
Wow, so sorry this happened to you. I just finished a SMR from Jim Kibler. I am not the hottest gunsmith out there (just a lawyer, not a gunsmith) and of the minor problems I had with the kit, either Jim answered my questions or I got it done after some thinking. I really think this is a great rifle kit for the beginner or the expert.
(https://i.ibb.co/gj9SKSW/SMR-finished-kinda-2021-06-20-003.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Tv24340)

image upload (https://imgbb.com/)

(https://i.ibb.co/nzr5PtW/SMR-finished-kinda-2021-06-20-007.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f4MPDLc)


The Doc is out now.  8)
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Kmcmichael on July 02, 2021, 11:21:07 PM

(https://i.ibb.co/HPn6ybH/960-DD2-FF-1703-4-A4-A-A0-C3-72-BF4-E830-C76.jpg) (https://ibb.co/M1MrHtC)

Mine was good. I made some mistakes but they were not debilitating.
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: wayoutwest on October 04, 2021, 05:04:57 PM
Hey Ya'll,

Thanks again for all the kind words and encouragement. I was really looking forward to having a complete rifle and it was incredibly disappointing to pay someone that amount of money and not get at least a working firearm.

Sorry for the lack of replies. My family is going through an extremely difficult time, so much so I moved back to Kentucky to help my parents out. Between the move and the family issues I put rectifying the wrongs of the builder on the back burner. If anyone is in the Ohio/Kentucky/WVa/VA/NC area that would be willing to help out in getting this rifle in working order, please let me know. I would be happy to drive 3-4hrs each way from Lexington, KY to have the rifle worked on. If not, I would be willing to sell it.

Thanks again for all the generosity and kindness. Great community here, I'd love to be a part of it with a working rifle!

All the best,
Sam
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Stoner creek on October 04, 2021, 05:11:10 PM
Check your personal message
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Cory Joe Stewart on October 04, 2021, 09:25:54 PM
There is really no reason whey you would not be able to take the triggers and trigger guard out and not be able to get them back in.  He may be trying to hide more damage by telling you that.  I would be suspicious of any advice from him.  Kibler kits are not at al difficult to put together.  As mentioned above I would contact Kibler to see if he will sell you another stock, that crack will just keep going.  He can also furnish you with another screw for the lock. 

Cory Joe
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Stoner creek on October 04, 2021, 09:35:43 PM
I’m certain that your rifle can be made right. If you’re in central Kentucky drop me a personal message. I’d be happy to assess your situation and probably make it right.
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: J. Talbert on October 04, 2021, 10:33:18 PM
Wayoutwest, I suggest you contact Stoner.  He knows his way around these things and he’ll treat you right.

And he’s right in your backyard.

Jeff
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Marcruger on October 06, 2021, 11:55:28 AM
It is worth going to see Wayne (Stoner Creek). He’s an experienced builder. A man could do a whole lot worse than having Wayne for a friend too. He’s a great guy.  I am sorry to hear about your family problems.  God bless, Marc
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Bob Gerard on October 08, 2021, 06:25:04 AM
The cream is rising to the top  ;)
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: wayoutwest on October 20, 2021, 06:42:32 PM
Thanks for the replies ya'll. in contact with Wayne. Hopefully I'll close out this thread soon with a video of me actually shooting the darn thing.

Cheers,
Sam
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Terry Reynolds on October 20, 2021, 07:05:34 PM
I’m certain that your rifle can be made right. If you’re in central Kentucky drop me a personal message. I’d be happy to assess your situation and probably make it right.

This is the answer you seek.......plus you'll probably learn a thing or three!!!!
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Kiltman20 on October 30, 2021, 01:13:27 AM
Let us know how things turn out.  New guy here myself and I'm learning as I read.
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: wayoutwest on December 08, 2021, 04:09:09 AM
I had the pleasure of spending an afternoon at Wayne’s shop today. I’m no builder so all of the issues seemed insurmountable but In a blink of an eye he managed to take my Kibler SMR from wall-hanger to working rifle. I’m incredibly excited to finally get it out to the range but just wanted to take a quick moment to thank Wayne. A consummate Kentucky gentleman and gracious host  I can’t thank him enough. I owe him way more than the bottle of bourbon I brought!


And thanks to everyone for their suggestions and words of encouragement. Great community here. I’m looking forward to meeting some of y’all at the Friendship shoots and longrifle shows.

Cheers and Merry Christmas from Kentucky.

(https://i.ibb.co/HdnvgQZ/0-C01-CF5-B-5-A68-4-EF1-AB0-A-164-BAFFBA8-DC.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3zBXhHK)
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: smylee grouch on December 08, 2021, 04:36:00 AM
Wow that looks like my old Lincoln Ark Welder!  ;D
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: WadePatton on December 08, 2021, 04:38:47 AM
That's good to hear/see. Glad you got it fixed. We knew Wayne could set it straight PDQ.   
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Stoner creek on December 08, 2021, 04:41:54 AM
And to top it off, we had a great visit! I needed a day like today.
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: J. Talbert on December 08, 2021, 04:42:52 AM
Glad to hear it.

Not surprised,
Jeff
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Arcturus on December 08, 2021, 07:38:39 PM
All's well that ends well.  Gotta love a happy ending!
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Daryl on December 08, 2021, 09:12:23 PM
All's well that ends well.  Gotta love a happy ending!

Ditto!
You're THE man, Wayne. Bravo!
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Stoner creek on December 08, 2021, 09:15:54 PM
All's well that ends well.  Gotta love a happy ending!

Ditto!
You're THE man, Wayne. Bravo!
I’m just trying to be a good little boy! Ya know Santa is just around the corner!!
…..and I’m expecting something from the North Pole (Alaska) very soon!!!!!
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Austin on December 08, 2021, 09:54:26 PM
Who was that big man on the white horse? He saved the day!
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: tecum-tha on December 09, 2021, 02:01:58 AM
@Stoner creek: For the technical curious ones on here, what was the issues with the trigger and trigger guard?
Was it "assembled" wrong or was the inletting just too tight and it binded up the trigger pin in the trigger plate or?


Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Stoner creek on December 09, 2021, 02:44:07 AM
@Stoner creek: For the technical curious ones on here, what was the issues with the trigger and trigger guard?
Was it "assembled" wrong or was the inletting just too tight and it binded up the trigger pin in the trigger plate or?
Good question! In a nutshell, the set trigger was inlet and positioned too close to the sear. Actually the front knife of the trigger was making contact with the sear. My solution was a quick trip to the belt sander to remove (no more than 1/16”) of front knife. This method works well when you’re dealing with hardened trigger knives. You just need to tread lightly.
 This is a situation that I encounter on a regular basis building guns. I like the rifle to be what I call “fast” in the belly, meaning that there’s not a lot of space between the bottom of the stock and the bottom of the lock plate.
 On this particular gun all that I did was take the lock out and then test the trigger to see if it was functioning properly, which it did.
 Im not sure if the person who assembled the kit inlet the trigger deeper than it was when the kit was shipped but it has been my experience with helping teach the kit class with Brooks that the trigger comes inlet perfectly.
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Daryl on December 09, 2021, 03:24:28 AM
TKS for the explanation, Wayne.
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: JEH on December 09, 2021, 04:48:53 AM
Good on you Stoner. Ya might of saved another BP addict. Now i'm wondering what the Santa from Alaska has coming your way!
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Bob Gerard on December 09, 2021, 04:54:06 AM
Restoring my faith in humanity, one generous gunsmith at a time  :)
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: Stoner creek on December 09, 2021, 04:58:22 AM
Good on you Stoner. Ya might of saved another BP addict. Now i'm wondering what the Santa from Alaska has coming your way!
Stay tuned! Looks something like this!

(https://i.ibb.co/1dQgGJk/DE359-B63-567-C-48-D0-9-EE0-E1152-B8371-A7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KLhPxzJ)
Title: Re: Finished Kibler SMR with issues
Post by: tecum-tha on December 09, 2021, 05:18:09 AM
Thank you! I didn't know this model had a set trigger.
But this is a rookie mistake with set triggers.
Pretty common on some of the cheap spanish rifles and rifle kits, that the trigger plate mortise is too deep which pushes the trigger upwards binding with the sear.
Easy fix, as you did it.