AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: Vestvol on July 24, 2021, 05:04:54 PM
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So I am going to buy 10#s of powder. I am a new flintlock shooter so trying to decide how to break down my order. So I have heard 2f for a 50 and I have heard 3f. I know I can make both work and what the gun likes will matter, however, if buying 10#s how would you break it up? I was thinking 7#s 3f, 2#s 2f, 1# 4f?
What do you think?
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Either will work just fine. You will be able to work up a load IMO for both powders. I would simply order 3F or 2F, plus the 4F.
I shoot 2 F in my .50's and .54's.
FLeener
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I think you have a good mix to start your project. FYI I shoot FFg in everything, except the pan where I use 4f. Thats .32,.36,.40,.48,.50,.54 and 62. Flintlocks as well. Two unpublished experiments 100rounds each w FFg and FFFg showed FFg produced more consistent velocities. The FFFg had spikes of 100-150 fps.
I haven’t worked up a load in my .36 flintlock so I need to grab some FFF and give it a run thru. Dang, more range time.
TC
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It's a big guess when you only have one gun and plans for many more. I think I got 5,4,1 of FF, FFF, and FFFF when I did a 10# order. I expect to shoot smaller bores more--but they take less per shot. That might be another way to guess it out--figure shots per pound-assuming you know which powder you'll prefer for the guesses as to which bores you'll wind up with. 3F works in 54 just fine in my experience and 2F works in everything as TC notes above.
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You may not need to get any 4f. I have been shooting flinters for over 30 years, and I only use 3f for pan priming. Can't tell the difference in ignition time, and I find that 3f does not get so soupy in the pan after a few shots.
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I had never used FF in a 32 but yesterday I took my 32 (44 inch barrel) out to shoot some gongs. When I started to load I realized I had picked up the wrong powder horn, had FF rather that FFF. Being 45 miles from home I loaded 40 grains of FF.
I was shooting steel gongs at 75 yards and the FF seemed to shoot as well or better than my normal 30 Grains of FFF. Never would have tried it if I had any FFF with me.
I might try it again from a benchrest and see how well it does versus FFF.
Dennis
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I have plenty of both FFF and FF but I normally find myself using FFF in everything from 32 to 54. I use FF in my 16 bore fowler because it seems to apattern better.
Others mileage my differ,
Dennis
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Listen to Dennis, (he is wise beyond his years). I only shoot 3F in everything from 32 - 54 caliber and am quite happy. This don't make it right or wrong, just seems to work for me.
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You should definitely try both to see which gives you the best results. You will use less 3F to generate the same velocity. You will likely find that a particular velocity gives you the tightest groups, regardless of powder. As noted above I also get more consistent shot to shot velocities with 2F in my 50 caliber flintlock.
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I use 3f in pretty much everything, including my .58 Lancaster rifle. I also use 3f in my pan as well. Very useful powder.
I’d go with the same ratio of powder you you originally cite.
GS
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I use 3F in my .50, both in the load and pan.
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3f will kick a little harder due to the faster acceleration of the ball. 3F may foul a little less, I attribute that to higher pressure. Accuracy is not predictable. I tend to shoot mostly 3F. I do use 2f in my 54s and 58s. For 12 ga shotguns and my 4-bore I use 1F, out of recoil considerations.
IF you bought all 3f it would not be a mistake. But I like the 4, 3, 1 Lb plan.
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There are threads on ALR that talk about the amount of powder saved when going from 2F to 3F. Rule of thumb is about 10% less powder when using 3F over 2F.
In other words, a 63 grain 3F load is equivalent to a 70 grain 2F load. I'm sure there are those who can quantify these findings.
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There are threads on ALR that talk about the amount of powder saved when going from 2F to 3F. Rule of thumb is about 10% less powder when using 3F over 2F.
In other words, a 63 grain 3F load is equivalent to a 70 grain 2F load. I'm sure there are those who can quantify these findings.
Right it's all trade-offs. Some folks will go for more efficiency and others will go for more consistent velocities and others want those 3 or 9 nanoseconds of pan speed.
Here's another thing that one might consider with a 10# order, try different makes of powder if you're not opposed to imports.
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2f is the traditional accuracy powder for a 50, but obviously some guns like 3f better once loads are developed.
Powder in the pan? I go with Larry Pletcher's scientific high-speed camera testing. Unless there is a hang or delay fire, it is almost impossible for us to tell which is faster. Or fast enough. The gun will go off with 2f, but unless one is deadly steady with follow-through, I don't see how a person can shoot as accurately with a slower priming powder. In that split second the muzzle can move a lot.
I don't think you see shooters on the line at Friendship using 2f in the pan. 2f in the pan may be "good enough" to meet some shooter's needs, but I do not believe that it would prove as accurate in side-by-side, apples-to-apples offhand testing.
In the old days they used one powder for both pan and bore. Mostly likely all they had access to. Today we have a choice.
I use 4f in the pan. I was using NullB Swiss, but Bill Knight wisely diagnosed my pan fouling issue as lots of graphite in NullB. I switched to 4f which is close to as fast, and that issue went away.
One edge I get from 4f is the mental boost of knowing I am using the faster prime, which may make a difference. This money-on-the-crank is always the weak link anyway. :-)
God Bless, Marc
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you will have to try both to find the one that shoots best. in my 54 i use 2f in the bore and 2f in the pan. it lights instantly. but it also shoots 3f about as good. if i were to pick one for a 50cal without testing i would go with 3f in the bore and pan,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
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I use FFg in everything even in the pan. I hunt a lot especially small game with my rifles and head shots are a must so no problems in priming with it. It may depend on your lock. I guess I would probably order 5lbs of FFFG, 4 pounds of FFG and a can of FFFFG just in case.
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I use 3F in everything from .32 to .62, with the exception of a few specific loads. Just one example is a target/small game load for my .50 which is super accurate at 30 yards. That load consists of 30 grains of 2F. I always prime with 4F, when I have some. Otherwise it's 3F in the pan and I really can't tell a difference between the two. My full power .50 load is 70 grains of 3F. That load works well to 100 yards.
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Taking only rested shots in the woods, whereas most non-bench/plank/chunk competition is fired offhand may be why some of us are happy with coarser powders for hunting. Rested/braced follow through is far easier than offhand.
I also found out on my first flintlock hunting morning, the lucky way, that an imperfect pan to cover fit might let all of your extra fine priming power escape the pan on a windy day as one walks about. I was lucky that I didn't get a shot that day. I learned also to check my pan regularly when hunting.
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When I got my first real muzzle loader it was a 58 caliber Enfield carbine and a can of DuPont 3fg and I shot 3fg in every thing since from a 31 caliber Whitney revolver to a J.N.Scott 10 gauge double barrel shotgun.I have a fair amount on hand and some of it is old DuPont and one can of Meteor and another of Curtis&Harvey plus GOEX. The last muzzle loader I built was a 58 caliber full stock,walnut with iron trim and a Ketland lock and single trigger with no set capability and I used 3fg in it about 80 grains and an undersize ball of .562 and 3fg for priming.It went off like a caplock and was quite accurate If Bill Large were still here he would never speak to me again because of that way under size ball but it was accurate.
That Enfield carbine with a hollow base bullet was OK and I shot several wild dogs with it.I bought it from a pawn shop for $20 in the summer of 1951 and the powder and a nice horn came with it.Later I gave the horn to Becky Atkins who worked for Dixie Gun Works and the Hawken Shop when it was in St,Louis in the early 1970's.Memories pleasant to recall and share here.
Bob Roller
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I use 3F for calibers .54 and under for calibers over .54 and shotguns I use 2F. I prime with 4F because I have it. Works good for me ;)
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Taking only rested shots in the woods, whereas most non-bench/plank/chunk competition is fired offhand may be why some of us are happy with coarser powders for hunting. Rested/braced follow through is far easier than offhand.
Other than squirrel hunting I don't recall ever taking but one shot from offhand.
Normally I'm sitting and and it's a solid position for me. I was walking back to my truck on a long ago season when a doe ran out into the middle of the trail and stopped. It was maybe a 20 yard shot; but rather than taking a standing shot I dropped instantly into a kneeling position (got the deer, too).
I also found out on my first flintlock hunting morning, the lucky way, that an imperfect pan to cover fit might let all of your extra fine priming power escape the pan on a windy day as one walks about. I was lucky that I didn't get a shot that day. I learned also to check my pan regularly when hunting.
That happened to me a few years back. But unlike your situation I did get a shot; a super nice buck standing broadside well under 25 yards right in front of me. I knew he was mine, so imagine my shock when I got only a "clack" instead of a boom. He stared at me while I hurriedly started re-priming then rocketed away before I could pull the cock all the way back.
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I had this same debate a few years ago and got most of the same advice given by previous posters. I chose 3f because I wanted one powder to use in both my .50 percussion rifles and my 1860 Army repro. You also use a little less 3f than 2f to achieve the same velocity I'm told.
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So I am going to buy 10#s of powder. I am a new flintlock shooter so trying to decide how to break down my order. So I have heard 2f for a 50 and I have heard 3f. I know I can make both work and what the gun likes will matter, however, if buying 10#s how would you break it up? I was thinking 7#s 3f, 2#s 2f, 1# 4f?
What do you think?
I shoot FFF is everthing but my 16 bore rifle. Used to shoot it in my 58 years ago.
It will work fine. FF is OK but tends to make more fouling IMO. If you get a smaller bore rifle to a pistol you will want FFF.
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I had an Uncle who’s answer for every comparison was “I’ve ______ed em all and I can’t tell the difference between one and the other”. He drove a Ford or Chevy, whichever he could buy within the shortest drive, drank whichever beer was cheapest, or possibly closest to the door of the Gas Station, bought his work boots from the Dollar Store, took his TV over the air, and married the meanest woman you ever saw. His example learnt me to find joy in the nuances…..
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;D ;D Bob.
Use whichever shoots the most accurately. Generally, you can, if you try, find a load that shoots with identical with either powders.
The load for 2F will normally be 10 to 15gr. heavier than the 3F's accuracy load. In smaller calibres, like the .40 and .45, the difference
is usually 5 to 10gr.
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Bob,
I got my first muzzle loader in 1951 and used 3fg in it and ever since have used it in everything from
31 caliber pocket pistol to 10 gauge shotguns.The first rifle was a 58 caliber Enfield carbine I bought at
pawn shop for $20.It still here in Huntington WV and owned by the son of the man I sold it to in 1956.
This is not high pressure powder and this nonsense of extreme loads are not reflected in guns with the
original powder measures or flasks.
Bob Roller