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General discussion => Contemporary Longrifle Collecting => Topic started by: Molly on August 29, 2021, 07:23:37 PM

Title: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Molly on August 29, 2021, 07:23:37 PM
Rather frequently I visit the gun room and sometimes just before bed I often think about the makers of the originals.  Never in their wildest dreams did they probably envision a point in time, maybe 200 years plus, after they made a gun, that it would be proudly displayed somewhere, along with detail about their lives and times.  While it's just my personal opinion I tend to think most of them simply saw themselves as craftsmen who made a tool necessary for life in those periods.  Fancy or plain, most were tools. But they are not around and while there is history much of what was in their minds about their trade is speculation.

HOWEVER, with plenty of such "craftsmen" around today and who also follow this forum here is the question...

How do YOU think about the statement your works make after you will be gone?  Do you think about it at all?  What do you want to be remembered?  Will your works survive until 2221?  How will society see you and your guns?  None will be connected to significant historical events as in the past.  None are really necessary?

I wonder.
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Dennis Glazener on August 29, 2021, 07:57:01 PM
My health has caused an interruption in  building replica Gillespie NC rifles but I do wonder if the buyers of these rifles will have a continued interest in their families gunmaking heritage.

The last Gillespie rifle I sold was to a mom and dad that gave it to their mid-20's son. His mother said she had no idea he would have gotten so excited about finding more about his gunmaker ancestors history. Hopefully he will keep that history alive for his own descendants.

I look forward to being able to make more of these rifles for other Gillespie descendants.
Dennis
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Molly on August 29, 2021, 09:47:42 PM
Having a documented or at least known gun maker in the family and having examples of their works must be really rewarding.  What about current makers that have no such connection. What do they want said about their "hobby" in 200 years. 

Dennis:  Following in the footsteps of an ancestor might be all there is to say about Dennis, but I expect there is much more that you would like to have known???
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: R.J.Bruce on August 29, 2021, 10:50:49 PM
Molly, I have often wondered the same thing as what you have just questioned about contemporary builders. So many are caught up in recreating rifles of the past. The guns I appreciate the most lately are the ones by Mike Brooks, Mr. Kettenberg, and a few others that are putting their very personal imprint on a build by making something completely outside of the box.

A rifle, or smoothbore, that shouts out, "This is My Work, Not Wolfgang Haga's." (Substitute any known builder for Haga)
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: rich pierce on August 29, 2021, 11:14:57 PM
As long as there are builders, good work will be appreciated. But tastes change over time and what floats your or my boat today may not be mainstream 50 years from now. I think there will be family appreciation. “My grandpa built flintlock rifles!”  For example, my grandfather made some furniture in the arts and crafts style. Not my thing, but I appreciate he did it well and we share the “working in wood” inclination.
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Mike Brooks on August 30, 2021, 12:18:14 AM
It's already in my genetics. My GGGGGrandfather John Cox is listed as a gunsmith/blacksmith from VA and participated as such during the entire revolutionary war. He also wintered at Valley Forge. He was known as "Squire Tongs" later in life as he found you won more land cases in court as a Judge. ;) I assume he was more a repairer of guns and nearly a full time blacksmith when it comes right down to it....Let me know if you have any John Cox guns in your collections.
 My own Grandfather Floyd Cox retired 3 times from Freelands Gunshop in Rock Island Ill. He Worked there into his early 80's as a gunstocker and "fixer". He was a competitive shooter and competed at Camp Perry and elsewhere in the mid 60's, I still have all of his shooting medals.
 I myself have always been conscious of my 'legacy". I certainly hope that today's contemporary guns will be as cherished as we cherish the guns made in the 18th century. I have always tried to make carved and/or engraved guns hoping they would be more likely to survive and will make their journey through time in better shape than a plain gun might. I'm especially more conscious of that aspect as I'm more near the end of my career than the beginning. This is mainly why I quit taking orders and am concentrating on creating some of what I consider to be my best work to date.
 I'm planning on a  100' white granite obelisk for a grave marker inscribed " Here lies Mike Brooks the Gunstocker. He came into this world with nothing and managed to keep nearly all of it". ;D
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Daniel Coats on August 30, 2021, 01:39:42 AM
I owe it to the future to track down all my failures and systematically have them destroyed. Not everything should be preserved for posterity.
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: oldtravler61 on August 30, 2021, 01:39:58 AM
 I'm no gun builder of note by a long ways. But when it comes to the 15 guns I have built. Those were all given to my son an daughter. Plus my grand kids.
  Both my grandkids who are way to little to use them. Always tell me. Their going to get a deer with them. I don't need anymore compliment than that..
   Oldtravler
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: MuskratMike on August 30, 2021, 02:12:50 AM
Dennis: I for one cherish my Mathew Gillespie styled rifle that Don Bruton made for me with help and guidance from you. It is one of my most most favorite rifles I own, in fact I am considered being buried with it to help me on the other side.
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Molly on August 30, 2021, 03:15:25 AM
Mr. Brooks seems to have made a good assessment of the question.  Don't want to get way off course but the answer certainly must take into consideration what things will be like in 200 years.  The tools of the stone age still are interesting to some but I suspect most could care less about the people that made them.  PRIMITIVE tools for primitive minds and primitive times....maybe. Will your guns be viewed as such? 
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Keb on August 30, 2021, 12:03:59 PM
I make things hoping they will maybe remind my children & grandchildren of me after I am gone. The 1st thing my youngest son did with his was asked me how much he could get for the gun I made for him. I gave him $1500 for it and gave the gun to his son. What a disappointment. I've thought nothing more beyond that.
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Mike Brooks on August 30, 2021, 04:22:18 PM
Mr. Brooks seems to have made a good assessment of the question.  Don't want to get way off course but the answer certainly must take into consideration what things will be like in 200 years.  The tools of the stone age still are interesting to some but I suspect most could care less about the people that made them.  PRIMITIVE tools for primitive minds and primitive times....maybe. Will your guns be viewed as such?
Actually it may be a moot point. It all depends on where gun laws end up in this country in the future.
 I'm gearing up to make my two nephews a pair of flintlock hunting rifles. They are interested in bows and hunting at the moment but are hunting in AZ and I think they need something to  give them a little better chance of success. They are 17 and 14 years old. The youngest one is an incredibly talented blacksmith. Anyway, I want them to have something from their Uncle. My Brother is all for it and they live 4 miles from the Ben Avery range so they'll have some place to shoot. The youngest wants me to teach him how to  build, but his mother won't send him to Iowa for the time it would take to teach him. ???
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Craig Wilcox on August 31, 2021, 10:27:36 PM
Mike, it is only because you won't give him a break on the per day classes.  If you only charge him half price (he is still small....

Do know what you mean, tho.  I am leaving NOTHING to my kids or grandkids.  Maybe a single raised digit....
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on August 31, 2021, 11:05:05 PM
Mike tell them you have air conditioning.  They'll all be up there for months.  8)
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Mike Brooks on September 01, 2021, 12:37:14 AM
My nephews are both 6'2" but in typical Brooks fashion are quite thin at 145 and 130 lbs. It takes beer to properly fill out a young Brooks body..... :P
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: blienemann on September 01, 2021, 05:52:08 AM
Molly, thanks for asking this interesting question. I have enjoyed hobby gunstocking, and have learned much from some on this site and other very talented and knowledgeable folks. And I’ve always enjoyed learning from the old guns themselves – “all my favorite gunsmiths are dead” per Alan Gutchess and Jack Brooks. I usually use the tools and materials from the 18th century, and some of these efforts come close to the look and feel of the old work. The gunstocking process or working trade is what I find rewarding, and sharing what I learn with others.

Quite a few years back, Earl Lanning encouraged me to shift energy from gunstocking to research and writing, to share what we have learned. Gunstocking makes us better collectors and students, and collecting or study makes us better stockers. I’ve been fortunate to publish a book with the help of many, sharing some new information, and have contributed to another book and several articles. The writing may be more available as a legacy than the guns, depending upon where they end up.

To your point, my research showed me that some have enjoyed collecting and playing with arms for centuries, and I believe that will continue. I don’t remember where I found this woodcut –

(https://i.ibb.co/g6k25LW/17th-cent-the-gun-nut.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fQjghzN)

The author called this “The Weapons Fool”, or maybe in our terminology “The Gun Nut”. Probably written by a collector to poke fun at himself before someone else could do it. It translates roughly as “I am a fine citizen, and though I can’t stand the smell of powder, I own all kinds of guns, which bring me few compliments, since I don’t know how to use them, but I make sure rust does not appear.” Note the dog watering the work in the background!

So depending upon where my gunstocking efforts and those of others end up, I think some will appreciate our attempts to recreate old work and maintain those skills. Since we struggle to understand what is original work, and what is restoration or addition on the old guns we study, it is important that we sign and date our work somewhere, to avoid further confusion. We have a few museums and living history programs which demonstrate these hand skills, and some other countries like Japan consider such artisans as important legacies themselves. I think this will continue to some degree, and collectors will continue. I don’t know if the spread in value between what we call “originals” and our shootable contemporary guns will continue? That will be interesting.

The best part of stocking, researching and writing is the many friends we make here and all over the world. We as individuals will fade away, but I think we will continually be replaced by new networks of friends. The value of the old guns generally continues – in dollars and in enjoyment as both earlier art and history. Thanks for asking. I would like to hear thoughtful replies from others. Perhaps you (or the CLA or someone) should interview some of our best, and include this question. Bob


Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Molly on September 01, 2021, 02:42:51 PM
That is an outstanding comment.  Maybe the legacy is not the object so much as the journey which transcends the object .  Maybe the journey of some is not so profoundly understood by all who are stockers, makers or artists.

Thanks you very much.

MAS
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Daniel Coats on September 01, 2021, 04:56:40 PM
This is all very interesting to me. I have a long gun made by a family member about 60 years ago. I remember every time there was a family gathering out it would come for pictures and a shooting session. I carried it around everywhere I went until the mid 1970's and most people would comment on my original muzzle loader. Today it would not pass for one probably because of the sophistication and taste of the modern public. Here's the problem sort of, the quality and design is so poor as to be worth almost nothing. No one in the family wants it and I have the burden of keeping it as a family heirloom.

Signed,
UR Stuck
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: snapper on September 01, 2021, 06:17:46 PM
Daniel

Well, at least it dont eat much and cost you nothing to keep it stuck away.

Fleener
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Daniel Coats on September 01, 2021, 06:36:41 PM
Daniel

Well, at least it dont eat much and cost you nothing to keep it stuck away.

Fleener

Thanks for the reminder. Very true that it's not always about dollars and sense! ;)
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: D. Taylor Sapergia on September 01, 2021, 07:23:23 PM
I have two daughters who are in their forties now.  They have watched me all of their lives, building muzzleloading rifles, and working in my shop.  Recently, they have asked me to document my philosophies and feelings about my craft, I think mostly so they can help others who might want to know, long after I am gone, what this is all about, the why, and the inspiration.  They are both artists in their own right, so this is not so that they will themselves, have a better understanding.  They get it! But they recognize that others may not.  And they want to ensure that folks in the future have an opportunity to understand and appreciate this art form.  Molly's question refreshes that need for this valuable and likely unexpected look into what makes an artisan tick.  Don't we all wish that the masters of the past would have had the foresight to jot down some of their thoughts.
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: snapper on September 01, 2021, 07:26:19 PM
Taylor

When you were making Hawken rifles, how were they marked?

Thanks

Fleener
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: heinz on September 02, 2021, 04:48:43 AM
I learned to build rifles back in the 1960s.  I had two influences, the line shooters from Friendship Indiana, and what back then were called "Buckskinners"   The main focus was on rifles that would shoot well, on paper targets or at rendezvous matches.  Clark Fraser, who passed last year, was a highly competitive match shooter.  He was often in the Crosley shoot-off at the National matches and built underhammer rifles with thumbhole stocks and false muzzles.  He was a strict taskmaster and I learned a lot from him.  He always teased me about my "caveman" approach.  Chuck Oder and Thelbert Mings, Wille Boitnott and Don Sherman taught me a lot also.  So I hand-build  traditional rifles, that are not necessarily "bench copies" of anything but generally SMR in look and meant to be accurate. All my grandchildren are shooters.  Some at sporting clays others with whatever comes to hand.  Each of them has a rifle from me.  I think they all appreciate them and they are all learning to shoot them well.  Almost everyone I know who has one of my rifles shoots it.  So I feel like I am carrying on a tradition of American craftsmanship in muzzleloading rifle shooting and building. I think two of the grandsons may build a few rifles. 
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Eric Krewson on September 02, 2021, 04:16:43 PM
I believe people like Mike do have a genetic inclination to follow the path of their ancestors.

My best friend is Joe Bogle, he has built modern and B/P rifles for years, his late nephew Danny was the same, they just had the "knack".

Back about 15 or 20 years ago he did a little research of his family history and uncovered the fact that his 5th great grandfather was also a Joe (Joseph) Bogle, the same one that many of you have heard of in gun building circles.

Upon finding out this interesting information he traveled to his grandfathers grave, carried on with his research and was even able to hold, photograph and take measurements from an original Bogle rifle at the Museum of Appalachia near Knoxville.

I don't know how many tribute Bogle rifles he has built since, my guess would be 7 or 8, I am very fortunate to own one of these rifles myself, it was gift from Joe.

Joe and his grandfathers rifle;

(https://i.ibb.co/Rp9YGQr/joe-and-the-bogle-rifle.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6RmrcD9)
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Eric Krewson on September 02, 2021, 04:27:19 PM
As for me, I have built 5 B/P rifles and 5 more that people either gave to me or I pieced together from finished parts (TCs). I have no legacy to pass on, none of my direct clan is interested, I guess if I know I am on my last leg I will go on a selling spree and give the money to my granddaughters. 
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: D. Taylor Sapergia on September 04, 2021, 07:20:48 PM
Fleener:  Hawken rifles from my own shop are signed on the top flat between the breech and the rear sight in script with my last name.  On the bottom flat just ahead of the breech I engrave a serial number, No. 100 for example, and the date I finished polishing the barrel prior to browning/bluing.
On rifles I made for Don Robinson of Robinson Firearms Manufacturing, the top flat is stamped Robinson Prince George and the angle flat at the left side of the breech plug has a stamped serial number.  On the underside of the barrel on the bottom flat next to the breech, I stamped my last name on rifles I built.  We called it affectionately, the "Fraser River Hawken".
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: WKevinD on September 06, 2021, 03:23:46 AM
I don't know about my legacy but when I die  show up for the yard sale. There is nothing of value to any of my heirs except cash and my truck.
Forty years of gathering tools and building guns will get cleared out or left to rust.
Show up early!

Kevin
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: 409 on September 13, 2021, 03:18:07 AM
Years ago I did a lot of air brush painting on vehicles of all types, mostly van and motorcycles. All my art is long gone, rusted away or a few repainted while the guns I have built are still around and most are treasured. I guess in some way it's my search for immortality. My kids made a website for me to showcase some of my accomplishments, [google Wayne Doucette- Artisan] I suspect from a sense of pride in their Dad. I don't think I can ask for more.  Respectfully  Wayne.
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: RAT on September 13, 2021, 06:57:04 PM
I'm not a great builder... so no legacy there.

When my dad died, my sister and I had to do through his belongings. Then, my mom died 4 years later and we went through her stuff. Then my sister died in 2014 and I had to go through her stuff. I'm the last one left. No kids. When I'm gone it's all going to the landfill.

I go to the cemetery often. I look at the old headstones. The one's where the names are worn off by weather. You can't read them. That's my legacy.
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Molly on September 13, 2021, 11:43:56 PM
Quite an array of views. I guess some are not looking as their works will make up a big part of their "legacy".   But I think many must feel that their works will live on and be an expression of who they are (were).  Certainly there are more meaningful ways to be remembered.  Family, children, saving the planet, building a vast financial empire or maybe just living a good life and helping a neighbor.  I KNOW there are some who have read this thread and who do have thoughts but maybe it's just getting to personal.  I'll tell you this...every rifle that I and hubby have, contemporaries AND originals are very much a way that we connect with makers be they alive or deceased.  I wonder if Ambrose Lawing, Peter Sites or John Painter really saw their rifles as a legacy?  I tend to think not.  But they very much are.  I can tell you this, IF I had the skill some of you folks have I would definitely hold a thought deep in my mind, that someone somewhere some day would look at that work and reflect of the person that made it, even if there is little known about them.
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: T*O*F on September 14, 2021, 12:57:58 AM
If you want your legacy to be remembered, go to familysearch.org and sign up.  It's a free geneological site.  Start your own family tree.  You can add pictures, memories, documents, etc.  Make your tree public and you may find that other distant relatives will add information and link their work with yours.  They send you tips that they run across that will add information to accessible archives.  My wife's goes back to the 1400's.  Mine has recently skyrocketed when a 3rd cousin hired a researcher in the old country that could translate old non-English documents and my tree now goes back 10 generations.

You'll have fun doing it too and your legacy will be there for future generations to find out about you.
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Stoner creek on September 14, 2021, 01:35:09 AM
 I believe that if you create an object you should sign or leave a recognizable mark on it that connects it to you! Look at all of the”attributed to” pieces out there. Wouldn’t it be nice to put a name to an object and know exactly where it came from. This is our crack at history folks.
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Cades Cove Fiddler on September 14, 2021, 02:33:14 AM
 8) 8)... I agree, Wayne,... I have a beautiful re-creation of a late flint period Tennessee rifle, that I would love to know who built it,.. supposedly built in the 1970's and signed with three initials only,... the builder obviously has been around some originals to execute this quality work,... I have posted photos here and has been examined at several shows, but no one recognizes these initials,.... at least not YET,... !!! ... regards, CCF 
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Mark Elliott on September 14, 2021, 02:53:52 AM
I would hope my best work is preserved and appreciated.    I sign and date all my work.   I don't know whether that will help in their preservation/appreciation or not.   I am not optimistic. 

I would like to know what has happened to the rifles and accouterments that I have make thus far.   I have gotten very little feedback on my work.   I am worried that my past work is poorly treated and destined for a short life.   

Guns are quickly falling out of favor with the public, and I don't think most people really differentiate between "antique" arms and modern arms.   I am afraid that that a lot of truly antique and contemporary muzzleloading firearms will end up in the landfill.   I see the value of these guns steadily declining.    It is very worrying for any legacy. 

There is also the worry about what happens to the contents of my shop; a lifetime collection of modern and antique tools; many I made.  Most of my personal assets are in my gunmaking tools and equipment.   I don't know anyone who would want them.    I suspect they will be dispersed at a yard sale at pennies on the dollar to people who will not know what to do with them.   

I am not optimistic about the future or my legacy in this world.   My hope is for the next life. 

Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Stoner creek on September 14, 2021, 03:20:40 AM
I would hope my best work is preserved and appreciated.    I sign and date all my work.   I don't know whether that will help in their preservation/appreciation or not.   I am not optimistic. 

I would like to know what has happened to the rifles and accouterments that I have make thus far.   I have gotten very little feedback on my work.   I am worried that my past work is poorly treated and destined for a short life.   

Guns are quickly falling out of favor with the public, and I don't think most people really differentiate between "antique" arms and modern arms.   I am afraid that that a lot of truly antique and contemporary muzzleloading firearms will end up in the landfill.   I see the value of these guns steadily declining.    It is very worrying for any legacy. 

There is also the worry about what happens to the contents of my shop; a lifetime collection of modern and antique tools; many I made.  Most of my personal assets are in my gunmaking tools and equipment.   I don't know anyone who would want them.    I suspect they will be dispersed at a yard sale at pennies on the dollar to people who will not know what to do with them.   

I am not optimistic about the future or my legacy in this world.   My hope is for the next life.
Mark I certainly see and understand your points. However, Hacker Martin’s tools and shop were reportedly sold for scrap. That was in 1970 and Hacker was the King of contemporary gunmakers at the time of his passing. We have survived and actually flourished since 1970. Today, custom gunmakers are busy, many are booked in excess of two years. There are waiting lists and back orders for parts. I’ve spoken with all of these people who supply locks, barrels, triggers, castings, etc. and asked them where all of these parts are going so quickly and nobody knows. There is obviously a demand so new folks are getting new guns, bags, horns, and all of those extras needed to play the game.
I’m a “glass half full” guy and I think that we’re maintaining. We’re a niche crowd.
 By the way, I’m the proud owner of two of your embroidered Fraktur bags! One I bought from you and the other at CLA this year! I use one for a squirrel hunting bag, the other a proud member of my collection!
 It’s all good my friend!!
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Bob Roller on September 14, 2021, 03:56:30 AM
I am not a gunmaker in the sense used here and have made maybe 10.The only one I know still exists I think is in Lexington,Kentucky.It's a 45 caliber half stock with silver trim and made from a piece of walnut that came out of Russia.
The gun was made in 1959.
   As far as guns falling out of favor with the public the sales of all types hits records almost every week.Old John Q Public is arming himself with whatever he can find or put on his Visa card.He may not be interested in our muzzle loaders or single shot rifles but he buys guns.
Bob Roller
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: heinz on September 14, 2021, 04:09:07 AM
Mark, I have always liked your work and admired the wide scope of your interest in the longrifle culture.  Doing good work is a reward in itself. 
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Dennis Glazener on September 14, 2021, 04:04:40 PM
I understand Mark's concern and one of the things we need to do NOW, not later, we need to find someone younger than us that we can trust to sell or otherwise dispose of our "treasures". We could even put in our will how we want our tools, guns, etc to be disposed of.

My daughter is executor of my estate, she is well aware that my "stuff" is not to go in a yard sale or sold for pennies on the dollar. Right now, things that she or her husband don't want to keep  are to go to auction except for a few pieces that are to stay in our family.
Dennis

I would hope my best work is preserved and appreciated.    I sign and date all my work.   I don't know whether that will help in their preservation/appreciation or not.   I am not optimistic. 

I would like to know what has happened to the rifles and accouterments that I have make thus far.   I have gotten very little feedback on my work.   I am worried that my past work is poorly treated and destined for a short life.   

Guns are quickly falling out of favor with the public, and I don't think most people really differentiate between "antique" arms and modern arms.   I am afraid that that a lot of truly antique and contemporary muzzleloading firearms will end up in the landfill.   I see the value of these guns steadily declining.    It is very worrying for any legacy. 

There is also the worry about what happens to the contents of my shop; a lifetime collection of modern and antique tools; many I made.  Most of my personal assets are in my gunmaking tools and equipment.   I don't know anyone who would want them.    I suspect they will be dispersed at a yard sale at pennies on the dollar to people who will not know what to do with them.   

I am not optimistic about the future or my legacy in this world.   My hope is for the next life.
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: blienemann on September 15, 2021, 02:19:15 AM
Dennis and all, this topic of what to do with our toys and tools and books, etc when we are gone might be worthy of a separate post.

I am fortunate that the sweetie and other family members and friends have supported me in research, writing and gunstocking over the years, most have something from me now, and I have written a detailed direction (informal and outside the will but mentioned there) directing that certain toys go to certain folks. But beyond that, I plan to leave all remaining arms, barrels, stocks, locks and other parts, tools, gunbuilding books, camping and shooting supplies and related in equal shares to to
(1) the Gunmakers Hall and Primitive Range Committees of the NMLRA, and (2) The CLA.
I ask that the NMLRA and CLA make arrangements to ship and receive these items at their expense, and that these items be used to promote traditional muzzleloading gun stocking, traditional primitive shooting, and so on.

I have talked to friends in each organization about this plan, and they have agreed to do the work, making it easy on any surviving family members. This way family does not need to deal with friends and others who want to look through and then make offers on items.

If I time things right, I may give or sell everything before I go, and there might not be much left. But if a surprise goodbye, it might be substantial. At least this work that I have so enjoyed with many friends will have a home(s), and continue to help someone else.

I am interested in what others think of this approach and other ideas. Maybe I will fine tune the approach. I feel bad that some here think that their work is not appreciated. We sure enjoy and support each other on this forum, and there are many outside who feel the same way, if we connect to them. Maybe this topic is a good one to continue sharing and supporting?

Keep on the sunny side, Bob
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: mountainman70 on September 15, 2021, 06:12:42 AM
Good evening all: This is a very interesting thread to say the least. Lots of deep feeling here, and so it should be.
In all my years of working various auto/truck, pipe organ trades, I imagine some of my organ work may survive with my name on the console tag.
 As to my guns I have built over the years, I have been blessed with folks all over the conus, and in Alaska liking my work well enough to buy it. I am deeply indebted to them for the confidence in my work, plain as it often is.
Interesting to me is , the Hawken style rifles I have made, or rebuilt, are mostly east of the miss river, while I have several longrifles, especially Tenn. style ,out west. Go figure.
My daughter and son, and g son have my work I built for them, and know how to use them.
I just finished a SMR from parts I bought here, and stocked with a beautiful Pecatonica cm stock, for a young man in Kentucky ,a member here.
He is coming to get it Friday. I will post pics after that .The m/l people that have seen it, my teacher and other guys, say it is my best longrifle.
I hope so, my hands are getting tired from arthur ,so I gotta take it easy .
Just turned 69 this past July, and am Blessed to still be here with all of you.
Thanks, Molly , for getting this started.
Best regards to everyone. ,specially ol CCF ,y' ol rascal. Dave F 8) 8)
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Daryl on September 19, 2021, 10:48:24 PM
I am @!*% proud to have 2 rifles that say SAPERGIA on the top flat, along with 2 pistols from the same man. :)
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Mike Brooks on September 20, 2021, 02:05:27 AM
I am @!*% proud to have 2 rifles that say SAPERGIA on the top flat, along with 2 pistols from the same man. :)
Comes in handy in case you forget who you are..... ;D
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Cory Joe Stewart on September 20, 2021, 07:30:28 PM
I remember in Hershel House's DVD on rifle building he noted that the quality of your work will be a legacy.  I can't remember how he worded it.  I know some of mine are considered heirlooms by the family that owns them.  A friend recently asked me if I would publish my dissertation in a book or get any academic articles published.  I told him that I have decided not to go that route.  I would rather build guns, horns and bags at let that be my legacy and not some stuffy academic article no one will read but other stuffy academic historians  who won't like it anyway. 

Cory Joe
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: BOB HILL on September 30, 2021, 04:43:09 PM
I have been blessed with a son and grandson that are making guns. They both are also accomplished blacksmiths. This has given me an answer to the destiny of my shop and tools. I don't think they'll end up on a yard sale.
Bob
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Marcruger on September 30, 2021, 05:42:00 PM
You raised some fine kids Bob.  Your legacy has been well passed along.  Both Walter's and Robert's first rifles look like they came from accomplished builders.  In this CLA photo that is Walter's colonial first rifle on top, Robert's Appalachian on the bottom, and Bob's (from the early '80s) Carolina rifle in the middle of the rack.  I sure enjoy the hand forged hardware.  That is Walter in the photo for those who have not yet met him.  God Bless,   Marc

(https://i.ibb.co/P6PLzhN/IMG-8655a.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tJvGPs4)
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Molly on October 01, 2021, 04:35:13 AM
When I first thought about this thread it was more about a gun maker and how he would live on through his works but what better legacy than a gun maker who passes his talent on to his children and they carry it on into the future.  That's hard to beat.

But it is also interesting to learn that some do not view their "legacy" will have much to do with their works.  Maybe gun building is more of a sideline for them??  And then I also see some do very much seem to feel or HOPE, that they will be remembered well into the future by fond words spoken about "some old gun" that now hangs on the wall bearing their name on the barrel.
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: David Rase on October 09, 2021, 01:18:42 AM
I am @!*% proud to have 2 rifles that say SAPERGIA on the top flat, along with 2 pistols from the same man. :)
Comes in handy in case you forget who you are..... ;D
Just like a cowboy having his name tooled on the back of his belt. 
David
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Daryl on October 09, 2021, 11:51:16 PM
I am @!*% proud to have 2 rifles that say SAPERGIA on the top flat, along with 2 pistols from the same man. :)
Comes in handy in case you forget who you are..... ;D
Just like a cowboy having his name tooled on the back of his belt. 
David

LOL
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Stoner creek on October 09, 2021, 11:58:56 PM
I am @!*% proud to have 2 rifles that say SAPERGIA on the top flat, along with 2 pistols from the same man. :)
Comes in handy in case you forget who you are..... ;D
Just like a cowboy having his name tooled on the back of his belt. 
David
Only problem here is that I would have to take my belt off to find out who I am!😟
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Mike Brooks on October 10, 2021, 12:11:18 AM
I am @!*% proud to have 2 rifles that say SAPERGIA on the top flat, along with 2 pistols from the same man. :)
Comes in handy in case you forget who you are..... ;D
Just like a cowboy having his name tooled on the back of his belt. 
David
Only problem here is that I would have to take my belt off to find out who I am!😟
Or have a friend that can read it for you. ;D
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: thecapgunkid on October 15, 2021, 12:44:57 AM
Our legacy has to survive the virtual and cyberspace world.  That's where everything is heading and the Pandemic helped it along.
 
 My oldest grandaughter (11) comes through the doorway and says quickly..."hi Grandpa." and then goes heads down into thumb scraping her hand held.

My Oldest Grandson(10 and a half) comes through the door and says..."Hi Grandpa." and then goes heads down into thumb scraping his hand held.

My youngest grandson ( 9 ) comes through the door and says..." Hi Grandpa." and then talks into his headpiece..." Guys, don't shoot me I am going to run to the Oak Tree, pick up the potion and kill the dragon..."

My youngest granddaughter (6) comes through the door and says..." Actually, Grandpa, my parents have made the summary judgement that I am too young  for a hand held device so I was hoping you could come up with an alternative scenario with creative financing..."

Flintlocks and historical leather?  My shop? My tools?  yeah...right...

All I am hoping for is that one of them flies a USN/USAF Drone and does what I could not do when the North Vietnamese and CIA figured out that I was coming, ended the war and deprived me of flight school.

On the OTHER HAND, maybe somebody will come up with a Virtual Reality French and Indian War????

Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Daryl on October 16, 2021, 08:22:48 PM
Years ago I did a lot of air brush painting on vehicles of all types, mostly van and motorcycles. All my art is long gone, rusted away or a few repainted while the guns I have built are still around and most are treasured. I guess in some way it's my search for immortality. My kids made a website for me to showcase some of my accomplishments, [google Wayne Doucette- Artisan] I suspect from a sense of pride in their Dad. I don't think I can ask for more.  Respectfully  Wayne.

That's some REALLY nice work, Wayne. Well done. Great job on the web site, too.
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: heinz on October 17, 2021, 03:16:25 AM
It takes some effort but you can get their attention if you make it fun for them.  But you may need to haul them somewhere and show them how it works.

Forging at Woodbury
(https://i.ibb.co/8gMWBQ0/IMG-0781.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LdSLPs8)

(https://i.ibb.co/SmB4dr8/IMG-0786.jpg) (https://ibb.co/my4VX8w)

Shooting at the indoor range
faces smudged on purpose

(https://i.ibb.co/vDQN4NG/IMG-0269.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b72454Z)

(https://i.ibb.co/859jTcX/IMG-0273.jpg) (https://ibb.co/R0cCZy7)

(https://i.ibb.co/m5FZYyM/IMG-6183.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k26brDW)

(https://i.ibb.co/DwcGWcy/IMG-6188.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5spY4py)

shooting a flintlock (granddaughters)


(https://i.ibb.co/SrdJPRz/IMG-7693.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RyB79zq)
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Bob Roller on October 18, 2021, 04:36:19 PM
That youngster with the Remington75 is a day brightener to this old man.
At age 15 I had a percussion version and shot a transient bum with it that
was trying to pull my mother out the front door.I intended to kill him but the
shot cut a deep gash on the left side of his face and damaged his ear.He was
found at a nearby ball field.He was one of numerous rail bums that hopped on
and off slow moving trains on the C&ORR.These bozo's were a threat and PITA
and would steal anything they could.Clothes off the clothes lines,you name it and
this moron apparently saw a pretty, small red haired woman he wanted.It didn;t
work out to well for him.


Bob Roller
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: Daryl on October 18, 2021, 08:19:49 PM
Well done, Bob. - Cheers!
Title: Re: The legacy of a contemporary gun maker
Post by: mikeyfirelock on October 19, 2021, 05:08:45 AM
Interesting……..I’ve built 25 or so maybe 30 rifles and a couple of flintlock pistols.  Never marked any of them…..all went to people I knew and who knew me, or of me.   Over the years I’ve made offers to buy several of them back, and no one will part with them.  Even the ones that have never been fired.  What I’ve heard from several is that they will never sell them, not even to me, and their grandchildren will end up with them.   I guess I should be flattered.   
( probably should have charged more for them)
Mikeyfirelock