AmericanLongRifles Forums

General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: Chris_B on September 18, 2021, 01:10:02 PM

Title: Iron mounted Southern rifle with illegible signature
Post by: Chris_B on September 18, 2021, 01:10:02 PM: I recently won this one at Morphy’s.
Length 61,2“, barrel length 45/1/2“, cal.62
The crude patchbox contains the fragment of
a 1940 sales bill, the rifle sold for $50 then,
was a little more today ;)
The barrel is signed in script, might read T B…id. FanC, or
something complete different….?
The underside of the stock behind the wrist is
stamped IPEE, the E‘s look more like reversed 33‘s.
On the ckeekpiece side behind the wrist are the scratched
letters ANH, makes me think of some military use.(?)
The lock was signed, obviously in script, too.
Almost nothing left, the first letters might be In

Any ideas about the who, where and when will be
highly appreciated!
(https://i.ibb.co/nDxxFX1/BA5751-B7-0-B98-4-BA8-B29-A-DF79-D07-C1688.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jLnnSCw)

(https://i.ibb.co/dM8W0NH/9-E1-F40-AE-DFFF-4-E56-A810-383-A58-CE74-FA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qjTyMH2)

(https://i.ibb.co/GktzJ4f/466-E2076-F51-E-49-BF-AD7-A-DF23-CF182-B21.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Bjr0P5H)

(https://i.ibb.co/k5FQ5D1/8-E64-EBB2-E7-C2-4114-92-D5-DDCDBADEEE03.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HBQnBPd)

(https://i.ibb.co/J7jqhW0/5-C5-E11-F2-5450-44-DA-AE66-6-E027-F540-D2-F.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SnwcLDW)

(https://i.ibb.co/fQ6N8hM/F9-C7-F51-D-811-D-46-E7-A0-E5-33-CD7777-EA7-C.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FnZYsS6)

(https://i.ibb.co/34j9mf6/459-CE237-2-AD0-46-B7-A7-FD-BD8971-B5366-D.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vVT64sy)

(https://i.ibb.co/5TMgrm0/0234-C766-F970-4674-9-A04-BEFD5-EC915-F3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Mn2xcrv)

(https://i.ibb.co/mqstJf4/6-D2-CCAF9-0-DAA-4560-B127-63-D864-D361-C3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4TyMWhp)

(https://i.ibb.co/FKmB95L/211-D65-BE-36-CC-4-AE0-8639-49-C8-F3-DD2-C28.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SP5K2t4)

(https://i.ibb.co/z7GV0CZ/19-E21834-13-A7-4256-BECA-637-ACDA34-A00.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NmZ2HfK)

(https://i.ibb.co/B4m9Jt2/2-A4-D7-AE6-C4-C1-4-B14-B458-9-B64-AF2-DB1-E3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0BkxLcy)

(https://i.ibb.co/1n73Vqd/A4-F22-B70-E327-47-FA-A213-D9415-CCCBE22.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GJnXw2t)
Title: Re: Iron mounted Southern rifle with illegible signature
Post by: mountainman70 on September 18, 2021, 04:31:08 PM: Greetings Chris. Do you rekkin this could have been new back when sold for 50 dollars?
It sorta looks that vintage to me.
Most likely I am wrong, but that would be the first time today. Lol
Nice rifle anyways.
Best regards Dave 8) 8)
Title: Re: Iron mounted Southern rifle with illegible signature
Post by: Chris_B on September 18, 2021, 04:48:52 PM: Well, I don’t know Dave….
The fact that the signature is that worn , on
the lock, , too, seems to indicate these parts are
pretty old.
The stock, on the other hand, might not.
Just the feeling when holding the rifle in
my hands tells me it is a lot older than 1940,
but I might be wrong, anyhow.
Title: Re: Iron mounted Southern rifle with illegible signature
Post by: Rajin cajun on September 18, 2021, 07:55:21 PM: Virginia, maker probably Grandstaff..!

Bob
Title: Re: Iron mounted Southern rifle with illegible signature
Post by: Daryl on September 18, 2021, 09:05:32 PM: To me, it looks like an "L" then last name starts with a "B"

Cool picture of the muzzle crown, looks to be filed out to ease loading with tighter? combinations.
Title: Re: Iron mounted Southern rifle with illegible signature
Post by: Chris_B on September 18, 2021, 09:09:53 PM: Quote from: Daryl on September 18, 2021, 09:05:32 PM
To me, it looks like an "L" then last name starts with a "B"
Guess you are right!
L first came to my mind, too, then I decided it might be a T.
That probably excludes the Grandstaff theory.
Too bad, I would love
to own one of his rifles…,
Title: Re: Iron mounted Southern rifle with illegible signature
Post by: Tanselman on September 19, 2021, 07:46:35 AM: I don't know how any theory or suggestion can be excluded at this point, since we are making "best guesses" at what the letters are, and no one can really tell for sure. Shelby Gallien
Title: Re: Iron mounted Southern rifle with illegible signature
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on September 19, 2021, 03:53:38 PM: I really like that rifle! I do not think it was stocked in 1940, I also think it may be older especially given the level of iron staining in the wood around various areas of ironware. That comes with a lot of time and a lot of exposure. I'm sure it's been refinished or finish-added since 1940, though, but most of them have anyway. Lock looks newer, although possibly it's just the photo. Any sign it was percussion at one time? Very cool piece!
Title: Re: Iron mounted Southern rifle with illegible signature
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on September 19, 2021, 04:02:11 PM: It's tough to tell if that "B" is really a B, or just a stylized portion of a different letter. I can pretty easily see "Grandstaff" interpreted out of what's left of the marks, but maybe that's because I already read it above :o. Might help so see the signature in different shots, i.e. some raking angles, different lightings etc.
Title: Re: Iron mounted Southern rifle with illegible signature
Post by: Chris_B on September 19, 2021, 04:30:30 PM: I will try to take pictures of the signature
from different angles later.
Unfortunately it’s a rainy day with no good
outside light so I will try it indoors.

I can see no pitting on the barrel or something else
that says „percussion „.
I agree the lock somehow looks newer, but there
still is the almost worn away rudiment of a
signature on it…
Title: Re: Iron mounted Southern rifle with illegible signature
Post by: Chris_B on September 19, 2021, 05:09:29 PM: Tried some
(https://i.ibb.co/bLvGZp4/BBDC7432-3738-45-A5-A7-AF-2-F8-E3-E4-E42-F0.jpg) (https://ibb.co/L6gsW4T)

(https://i.ibb.co/bskQn7j/3611-CF68-CBA5-4-E17-A240-B169590-BE48-C.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QP4pGX7)

(https://i.ibb.co/VTcypK6/97-D350-A9-DF43-44-E3-8750-8-C2-B2-E57-B087.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CQ3dsrL)

kostenlose upload plattform (https://de.imgbb.com/)

(https://i.ibb.co/f8kz2yH/8113293-C-C5-B1-403-E-BB46-30-EA64-F69-FD4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rbxRmzH)

(https://i.ibb.co/FW6MXmz/473-F9-E9-A-2701-4-DC6-A0-E8-04-E47-D3-A5766.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8BMpbN9)

(https://i.ibb.co/tKM8b1X/60-AADC2-A-0-FAC-4393-AB81-66-AEFF68-EFBE.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qjMkR25)
Title: Re: Iron mounted Southern rifle with illegible signature
Post by: Chris_B on September 19, 2021, 05:11:18 PM: I think now I see a Bride… in it?
Title: Re: Iron mounted Southern rifle with illegible signature
Post by: jdm on September 19, 2021, 05:21:45 PM: Bradford ? Brinford ?
Title: Re: Iron mounted Southern rifle with illegible signature
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on September 19, 2021, 05:36:02 PM: Now I see all those options! Aaack!

Maybe it's a variation of Breidenherd/Breitenherd and it's an older barrel.
Title: Re: Iron mounted Southern rifle with illegible signature
Post by: Cades Cove Fiddler on September 19, 2021, 07:33:05 PM: ::) ::)... Well ... at least we can safely say it's not a BEAN,... !!! ... I remember seeing this in the auction listing,.. was amazed at the unusual side-plate,... that and the long pointed toe-plate might be better markers as to builder than the obscure barrel marking,... maybe not, however,...??? ... nice old hog-rifle,... regards ... Cades Cove Fiddler....
Title: Re: Iron mounted Southern rifle with illegible signature
Post by: bama on September 20, 2021, 12:22:28 AM: Since we are guessing I might as well Join in. The first letter looks like a J to me, then possibly Bairford. It's a nice rifle. on the different side of what we normally see. I like it.
Title: Re: Iron mounted Southern rifle with illegible signature
Post by: RAT on September 20, 2021, 03:49:37 PM: To my eyes... I see 2 names... first and last.
Title: Re: Iron mounted Southern rifle with illegible signature
Post by: ed lundquist on September 20, 2021, 04:02:33 PM: You could try making a rubbing of the signature using a lightweight paper and the side of a pencil, might work.
Title: Re: Iron mounted Southern rifle with illegible signature
Post by: Chris_B on September 20, 2021, 04:48:05 PM: Goog idea! I will try the detective thing and see what comes of it.
Title: Re: Iron mounted Southern rifle with illegible signature
Post by: Metalshaper on September 20, 2021, 08:49:51 PM: Quote from: ed lundquist on September 20, 2021, 04:02:33 PM
You could try making a rubbing of the signature using a lightweight paper and the side of a pencil, might work.

Sometimes using aluminum foil, in place of the paper..yeilds a pretty good impression/rubbing

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan
Title: Re: Iron mounted Southern rifle with illegible signature
Post by: Notchy Bob on September 21, 2021, 04:26:59 PM: The rifle is a beauty, regardless of who made it. Eric Kettenburg's comments about discoloration of the wood where in contact with the iron support the idea that the stock is quite old.

Thanks to the OP for showing this rifle!

Notchy Bob
Title: Re: Iron mounted Southern rifle with illegible signature
Post by: Chris_B on September 21, 2021, 04:44:33 PM: Quote from: Notchy Bob on September 21, 2021, 04:26:59 PM
The rifle is a beauty, regardless of who made it.

Thanks, I think so, too.

Eric Kettenburg's comments about discoloration of the wood where in contact with the iron support the idea that the stock is quite old.

And here is something that I learned!

Thanks to the OP for showing this rifle!

Notchy Bob
Title: Re: Iron mounted Southern rifle with illegible signature
Post by: AZshot on September 21, 2021, 08:39:20 PM: I agree it's a nice looking enigma. Hope you can figure it out.
Title: Re: Iron mounted Southern rifle with illegible signature
Post by: Chris_B on September 22, 2021, 06:58:11 PM: I tried the pencil thing several times with no effort.
Guess the maker will remain a mystery …
Title: Re: Iron mounted Southern rifle with illegible signature
Post by: Eric Kettenburg on September 22, 2021, 07:31:33 PM: This will forever haunt me. :o
Title: Re: Iron mounted Southern rifle with illegible signature
Post by: Chris_B on September 22, 2021, 07:49:08 PM: My magnifying glass did not help much, maybe I will
find a better one…
Title: Re: Iron mounted Southern rifle with illegible signature
Post by: D. Taylor Sapergia on September 22, 2021, 08:53:01 PM: On the piece of paper, I am seeing 50, horizontal slash, and beneath in print, 100, and then Dollars. That says to me 50/100 dollars, not 50 dollars, but 50 cents. The number of dollars are lost in the deterioration of the paper. Very nice rifle.