AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: al56 on October 05, 2021, 07:34:54 PM
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I have been looking for information on the skychief load. I know it should be on the forum but I can't seem to find it. Thanks.
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I believe that info is a sticky on the TRADITIONAL MUZZLE LOADER FORUM listed under smoothbores.
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^^^^^^^^
This
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Yessir. That’s where she lies.
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Thanks everyone. Interesting load and I'm going to try it.
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I have heard about the Skychief load for several years, but I have yet to find what it is exactly written on this forum.
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There are answers all over Google. Just have to type it in.
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I used the search function once and after reading dozens of threads just like this I came to the conclusion that the Skychief load was like “snipe hunting “.
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About those snipe. Don't try to cook them in a microwave. I ended up with 19 little black walnuts that were originally 19 snipe breasts.
Shot them with a 10 bore - all 19, one shot. 2 ounces of #8 1/2's.
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I provided the o.p. a link to the best to topics on the subject on that other forum. I did not think it to be within the rules here to post links to other forums.
I will try to copy and paste the original written instructions here in another reply. I apologize, but, I just don't have it in me to recreate my pictorial demonstration of this loading method.
It does seem to baffle people for some reason, thus the pictorial essay on the other forum. But, really, this isn't that hard.
I do want to say this though. I have yet to read of someone trying this, to, the, letter that didn't have at least some pattern improvement. Every person who posted that they got no improvement or had pattern problems altered something in the components and method.
I have noticed that just leaving the thin overshot card out from in between the shot and the Heavily lubed cushion wads that sits on top, changes the pattern and reduces this loads effectiveness.
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Load these components, in, this, order, per Skychief's instructions written about elsewhere.
Powder charge
Nitro (hard) card
Shotload
Thin overshot card
Full fiber cushion wad*
*The cushion wad needs to be SATURATED (the wetter and heavier, the better) with oil. I like to use olive oil.
The load seems to shine best when used in cylinder bored guns.
Best of luck to all, Skychief.
End copy and paste from elsewhere.
Do not alter or substitute components. Each little thing makes a difference.
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It works for me and works well. I have a jug choked fowler that shot between an IC and modified, I was hoping for a turkey pattern when I had the barrel choked, I didn't get it.
Enter the Skychief load at 25 yards, I think this will work;
(https://i.ibb.co/y8t8ykL/turkey-2019.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1919qXH)
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The key difference in the load is that he discovered that putting the big, thick cushion wad OVER the shot, rather than behind it and over the powder, produced good uniform patterns. Long discussions have ensued theorizing the "whys" of it, but many people try it and find to their surprise it works.
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al56, good luck with the load. Thanks Brokennock for posting the information here. Hope its helpful.
Best regards all, Skychief.
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Thanks for the information. Appreciate all the help and questions answered on this web site.
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I'm not a shotgun guy, but I've read that with modern shotguns the wad will move through the shot column upon leaving the muzzle and disturb the shot. This apparently causes fliers or an empty hole in the middle of the pattern. Some believe barrel porting compensates for recoil and muzzle rise. It might, but I think the main advantage is that air flowing into the barrel from the ports helps slow the wad as it gets ready to leave the muzzle. I think this is why ported guns are reported to group better. I only own one modern shotgun, it is ported, but I shoot it like a rifle because it's my house gun for intruders.
Back to muzzleloaders... By putting the heavy wad on top of the shot, it exits first and can't blow through the shot column from behind.
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One would think that but for some reason it doesn't, my thinking is the shot drafts behind the fiber wad like a one car following very closely to the car ahead of it in a NASCAR race to stay out of the turbulence. With less initial turbulence they shot disperses more evenly.
What ever is going on, it works for me and most but not all of the people who try it. In the posts on the M/L Forum there a few dissenters who claim if they work up just the right load they can get any choked pattern (IC-Modified or Full) out of a cylinder bore gun.
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One would think that wet wad would slow down faster than the shot, so therefore interfere with pattern.
That patterns are not affected sounds wrong, but I cannot argue with success!
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Same thoughts I had, Richard, but the results speak for themselves.
Top "shadow-graph" shows the base wad pushing into the back end of the shot charge from a cylinder bored gun with it's normal short shot string.
Bottom "shadow-graph" shows the results from a choked gun, the elongation of the shot charge, but the manner shown is the choke slowing down the wads.
(https://i.ibb.co/44zKq1h/Shot-Pictures.jpg) (https://ibb.co/frfqgDj)
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For the life of me I can't see how a heavy wet wad in front of shot would make a tighter pattern. Goes against common since. Well the PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING! I guess I'm going to have to try it.
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Just thinking out loud...
If the shot column typically strings horizontally (in line with the bore) upon leaving the muzzle... and not out to the side (until it reaches some distance)... then the heavier wad in front could be moving slower... and more WITH the shot column... rather than flying away from it. That could be keeping the shot column more compressed until it reaches further from the muzzle... therefore... the cone of shot is smaller when it reaches the target.
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The heavy wet wad over the shot doesn't make sense, but seems to work for more than one person, so that method is worth trying.
Another, is using a pair to 3 overshot thin "B" wads between powder and shot, then same thin card over the shot. Seems the 2 or 3
thin "B" wads over the powder appears to get a seal, then being so lightweight, they fly away instead of slamming into the shot column
and disrupting it at the muzzle.
Experimenting is always a good thing.
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The Skychief load works (improves an already great pattern) in my 20 bore jug choked Chambers' officer's fusil. It has a 41" barrel jug choked to super full by L. Tennyson (sp?) for Turkey and tall tree squirrels.
My thoughts are similar to the above comments. In particular, the shot may draft a bit behind the heavy wet/lubed wad. In addition, I also believe that the 'excessive' lube in the over shot wad sufficiently increases the lube on the bore walls (and individual shot) to cut down on friction (Drag) of the shot moving down the bore. As you know, this results in a couple of scenarios ; it allows the shot to move down the bore easier AND creates less malformation of the shot through friction . This MIGHT help in the end result of a better pattern.
Respectfully, DanL
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Yes - I had thoughts along those lines, as well, DanL, regarding the lubrication.
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This is a Very interesting load. I think the lube on the bore has merit as well as the shot "drafting" the olive oil soaked thick front wad.
I was also thinking about the "weight" of that oil filled thick cushion wad, the weight would be much greater than any single piece of round lead bird shot (until you get up into large dia buck shot)...I read in a different thread of the oil soaked wad doing damage to target frames at quite some distance....I bet Just the oil soaked thick wad (loaded by itself) might be Lethal to rabbits at 10-15 yards? My point is that heavy mass may stay out in front of the shot column for several/many yards before the lead passes it, this would give the shot more time to develop into a nice pattern and when the lead finally does pass the heavy wad then far less pellets are affected, vs a thin overshot wad has very little weight to it and is about as aerodynamic as a parachute...the lead shot column must pass thru it Very close to the muzzle and "can" give the effect of doughnut shaped patterns. Just thinking out loud 8)
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It’s been a year since I shot my smoothbore with the sky chief load. At the time, I was using a scrap pieces of Sheetrock as a pattern board. Not once did I see evidence of the heavy oil soaked wad hitting the pattern board. I don’t know where it went but I can’t believe it wouldn’t have left an oily smudge on the sheetrock if it hit it.
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It’s been a year since I shot my smoothbore with the sky chief load. At the time, I was using a scrap pieces of Sheetrock as a pattern board. Not once did I see evidence of the heavy oil soaked wad hitting the pattern board. I don’t know where it went but I can’t believe it wouldn’t have left an oily smudge on the sheetrock if it hit it.
Interesting, do you recall the yardage you where testing patterns at?
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Another method is using a post-it note as a shot protector. You could make them up on a dowel, smaller than the bore, folding the base over the end of the dowel.
Trim to length needed for the shot charge. This worked in Taylor's Manton with cylinder bores.
(https://i.ibb.co/BVHPN69/cid-F0-E037-C7-7566-4-EA2-B69-A-B1423-FC0856-Clocal-zps3d502daf.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6RcZBtk)
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Another method is using a post-it note as a shot protector. You could make them up on a dowel, smaller than the bore, folding the base over the end of the dowel.
Trim to length needed for the shot charge. This worked in Taylor's Manton with cylinder bores.
(https://i.ibb.co/BVHPN69/cid-F0-E037-C7-7566-4-EA2-B69-A-B1423-FC0856-Clocal-zps3d502daf.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6RcZBtk)
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Do you also fold the top of the paper tube over the shot column and ram the whole thing down ?
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When we used them, the overpowder wad was introduced into the bore, then the post-it note, then shot poured in, then the overshot card and everything pushed down.
Special ctgs. could be made containing shot & wads. "These Ctgs." of wads and shot were actually commercially made in England and sold to sportsmen there. They also
went further to having the shot contained in a wire cage with varying thicknesses of wire which release the shot more slowly or more quickly and these were colour coded
as to the effective range. If I can find it, I'll post a picture of an Ely shot ctg. The picture notes "Breech Loaders" on the ctg. but basically the same system was used in ML's.
The longest ranged ctg. was noted for shooting birds at 80yards or further, but could be used for wolves and deer out to 50ayrds, where it acted like a slug.
(https://i.ibb.co/BcV5Cnn/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JmRws33)
(https://i.ibb.co/jDQCJ49/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GR8ZHPf)
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Thank you that was very informative, I’ve never seen a wire basket like that
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I agree, Tim. Imagine someone today making those "wire basket shot loads/buffering agent" and selling them at a decent price.
I wonder who thought today's buffered shot loads were something new?
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I think the hard wad in front of the powder, shoves the shot into the thin card topper with a juicy fiber felt-wad an slightly indents that “reverse” shotgun wad an stays with the felt longer as it heads to the target . Wow!!!!! In my “minds eye” I can see that happening……. Scarey HAYNA!!!!
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One expedient used to tighten patterns in smoothbores back in the early 1800's, was what was called the Swedish Cup wad. Today's equivalent would be the shot cup(post-it note)
or a hollowed out fiber wad. The hollow fiber wad was sometimes used as a cheat the oft times patterning contests in England, according to W.W. Greener in the 9th edition of "The Gun".
This was likely noted by his Dad W. Greener in earlier v"editions" of that book.
So- hollow wads held 'extra' shot which increased the central patter as a cheat in competitions. These can also be experimented with to increase central concentrations for hunting as well.
On top of that, post-it notes and such as plastic cup wads, if protected from powder flame by an 1/8" card can also be used.