AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: ShutEyeHunter on November 27, 2021, 03:40:48 AM
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I need a small Chambers small Siler lock and MBS has them on backorder. I like to buy stuff from MBS, and they have the Chambers kit
How hard are these to assemble and get working. I have a Jet drill press, oxy torch, ancient Unimat that I need to figure out how to set up as a drill press
I’ve always left 1911 trigger work to a ‘smith so I don’t have any experience with sear engagement
PS, I searched and got a gazillion results for building rifles from a kit. Appreciate links to relevant threads
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If you can get a copy of “Gunsmith Tips and Projects by Wolfe it had a reprinted article that covers whats involved from A to Z. Good Luck
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They come with instructions, not to difficult. I had to buy several drill bits. Actually kinda fun.
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Thanks, always looking for something fun. What parts need to be heat treated on kits? The one I’m thinking of is Chambers. They say the springs are ready to go. Wondering about the frizzen and tumbler
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If you can get a copy of “Gunsmith Tips and Projects by Wolfe it had a reprinted article that covers whats involved from A to Z. Good Luck
I ordered a copy. Only downside is it covers a lot of different projects. Prolly get sidetracked on one of my other guns;-)
Thanks!
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Springs are finished. Frizzen, tumbler. Sear and fly need to be heat treated.
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If you have the column your Unimat should make a nice little drill press with a small XY table well suited to work of that size. Here is one of my Unimats setup as a drill/ mill.
(https://i.ibb.co/KhnD3v3/20200615-122857.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3dKvLZL)
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Thanks for the pic! I inherited a ~1970s vintage Unimat from my dad but no instructions. Seems pretty straightforward now that I know what its supposed to look like
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I need a small Chambers small Siler lock and MBS has them on backorder. I like to buy stuff from MBS, and they have the Chambers kit
How hard are these to assemble and get working. I have a Jet drill press, oxy torch, ancient Unimat that I need to figure out how to set up as a drill press
I’ve always left 1911 trigger work to a ‘smith so I don’t have any experience with sear engagement
PS, I searched and got a gazillion results for building rifles from a kit. Appreciate links to relevant threads
Unlike the 1911,a muzzle loader can have a set trigger and the sear engagement on the muzzle loader must be capable of holding at full cocked against the thrust of a strong mainspring.Find out IF the sear and tumbler must be case hardened or are they a material that can be simply quenched in water or oil and then be "drawn back"
(tempered).All of my locks were scratch built and a lot of "scratching" was done. ;D
Bob Roller
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The small Siler lock is not available in kit form only the large Siler is. I built one many years ago, the only parts that need heat treatment are the frizzen, tumbler, fly and sear. I had trouble getting the frizzen hot enough and had to find a friend with a aceteline torch. Some say it can be done with two propane torches and fire brick to concentrate the heat. Drilling and tapping the hole in the square end of the tumbler might be a bit daunting without a lathe. The journals on the tumbler need turned down to fit the reamed holes in the plate and bridal. I made a step bushing with a concentric hole in it, to fit in the hole in the lock plate to properly locate the hole in the bridal. BJH
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Ther's a couple of small Sier percussion locks for sale on this site. Just received a large one in very good condition. Seller is very reliable.
Mark
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BJH, the small Siler flintlock kit is still available, here is a link to one. Not sure where the info it was not came from.
http://logcabinshop.com/oc30/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=25403
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I have built three or four of the siler flint kits. No big deal to do it. Just need a "good old kentucky turning lathe" as Herschel says (black and decker hand drill) Then again I have a good drill press and acetelene torch. I did make a mini forge using a pair of fire bricks by making the cavity by drilling down through the pair with a spade bit. Widen out the centre core area and a small side hole for the propane torch and fire it up. I have used it when I was out of acetelene to make small knives and springs. If you use Map gass it gets it hotter quicker. You can use the long shank forceps from Harbor freight to hold your part in the cavity to heat it up withdraw and quench clean up, temper and bobs your uncle. The gunsmith tips and tricks is a great book. I coppied all of John Bivins articles and made a binder for them. I bought my fire bricks from a company called Georgies in Portland OR. they sell Kilns and ceramic supplies. They were only 5 bucks a brick if I recall. I used sheet rock metal corner edging strips to form the edging frame to protect the bricks they are fragile.
(https://i.ibb.co/QDGgLJg/20211127-095445.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rdJjYQj)
(https://i.ibb.co/xFbNQvm/20211127-095420.jpg) (https://ibb.co/J3T9PLx)
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Things are easy when one knows how to do them.
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BJH, the small Siler flintlock kit is still available, here is a link to one. Not sure where the info it was not came from.
http://logcabinshop.com/oc30/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=25403
My faulty memory,
Sorry I stand corrected. BJH
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Things are easy when one knows how to do them.
Totally agree my friend. Almost.
Except when you have a bad case of what golfers call “the yips”. I got a bad case of the yips. I can’t even drill a hole straight. I’ve spent a half a day fixing 3 minutes of yips. I’m too stubborn or stupid to know when to put the tools down.
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Thanks for the great info from everybody. I’m thinking I have a reasonably complete set of machine and heating tools, but I’ll need a whole bunch of practice to get it right. May buy a few extra tumblers and sears to experiment on!
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I have built three or four of the siler flint kits. No big deal to do it. Just need a "good old kentucky turning lathe" as Herschel says (black and decker hand drill) Then again I have a good drill press and acetelene torch. I did make a mini forge using a pair of fire bricks by making the cavity by drilling down through the pair with a spade bit. Widen out the centre core area and a small side hole for the propane torch and fire it up. I have used it when I was out of acetelene to make small knives and springs. If you use Map gass it gets it hotter quicker. You can use the long shank forceps from Harbor freight to hold your part in the cavity to heat it up withdraw and quench clean up, temper and bobs your uncle. The gunsmith tips and tricks is a great book. I coppied all of John Bivins articles and made a binder for them. I bought my fire bricks from a company called Georgies in Portland OR. they sell Kilns and ceramic supplies. They were only 5 bucks a brick if I recall. I used sheet rock metal corner edging strips to form the edging frame to protect the bricks they are fragile.
(https://i.ibb.co/QDGgLJg/20211127-095445.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rdJjYQj)
(https://i.ibb.co/xFbNQvm/20211127-095420.jpg) (https://ibb.co/J3T9PLx)
Bob’s your uncle and Fanny’s your aunt. My wife is from Australia and we use that all the time. I think I’m out of oxygen (as usual) on the torch. I was wondering where to get stuff to build a forge & I appreciate the leads. Should I use a rosette tip in the forge?
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Springs are finished. Frizzen, tumbler. Sear and fly need to be heat treated.
BobRoller asked about the heat treatment & whether the pieces parts were quench and temper or had to be case hardened. I probably should get a couple of extra flys cause I am skilled at melting small parts with my torch;-)
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The small Siler lock is not available in kit form only the large Siler is. I built one many years ago, the only parts that need heat treatment are the frizzen, tumbler, fly and sear. I had trouble getting the frizzen hot enough and had to find a friend with a aceteline torch. Some say it can be done with two propane torches and fire brick to concentrate the heat. Drilling and tapping the hole in the square end of the tumbler might be a bit daunting without a lathe. The journals on the tumbler need turned down to fit the reamed holes in the plate and bridal. I made a step bushing with a concentric hole in it, to fit in the hole in the lock plate to properly locate the hole in the bridal. BJH
I was poking around in the Unimat stuff my dad left me and found a 4 jaw chuck. I was hoping the bridle hole would be spotted, but the bushing sounds like a great idea!
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I need a small Chambers small Siler lock and MBS has them on backorder. I like to buy stuff from MBS, and they have the Chambers kit
How hard are these to assemble and get working. I have a Jet drill press, oxy torch, ancient Unimat that I need to figure out how to set up as a drill press
I’ve always left 1911 trigger work to a ‘smith so I don’t have any experience with sear engagement
PS, I searched and got a gazillion results for building rifles from a kit. Appreciate links to relevant threads
Hadn’t thought about the (high) force on the sear. Is there a way to check the strength of the sear/tumbler notch? Like whack the cock with a hammer.. The same idea as proof testing the barrel?
Unlike the 1911,a muzzle loader can have a set trigger and the sear engagement on the muzzle loader must be capable of holding at full cocked against the thrust of a strong mainspring.Find out IF the sear and tumbler must be case hardened or are they a material that can be simply quenched in water or oil and then be "drawn back"
(tempered).All of my locks were scratch built and a lot of "scratching" was done. ;D
Bob Roller
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Hi,
I believe the kit usually comes with a plastic step bushing to locate the bridle hole.
dave
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Only 2 parts do much moving,the tumbler and the frizzen.Not a complex widget by any measure.
I just looked at the picture of the kit and wonder just how can that stubby lower limb on that sear
spring possibly work?
Bob Roller
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The idea of hitting the back of the cock or hammer with a hard object can do more harm that good.
Once the tumbler,sear and fly have been hardened and tempered or case hardened then simply fire the lock
with a flint about 30 times or more and if it keeps taking less effort to release the sear then a possible recutting*
is next.A precise fit of the screw thru the sear is a must.the sear should only rotate and the arm of the sear should not rotate at an angle and twist before moving up to disengage the full cock position.
*recutting and rehardening,
Bob Roller
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I would not use a rosebud tip with the forge if you are talking about using acetelene. Plenty of heat with a conventional tip an no forge needed. Propane requires the containment of the fire brick to get the heat up to were it needs to be to do the job properly. I have had skills at melting small parts as well. The disadvantage of the fire brick is you are not able to see very well whats happening so having extra bits is not a bad Idea. Good luck with your project.
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Thanks to all for the great info!
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If you can get a copy of “Gunsmith Tips and Projects by Wolfe it had a reprinted article that covers whats involved from A to Z. Good Luck
The book arrived today! Spent too much time reading it. Realized I’d read quite a few of those articles when they were first published. Helped me ruin much good metal and wood on my first rifle builds
Looking at Biven’s article, it’s something I could do, but might have a long learning curve.
I’m using the lock on a bench copy of the family rifle circa 1830. It’s an odd rifle-has a capbox and a forward lock screw. I’ve asked a couple of knowledgeable folks on this and other forums and the answer comes up as probably always percussion but might originally have been flint. So I was going to build the copy with interchangeable locks (not always a great idea)
Better to do the percussion first, anyway, and those are in stock. I think I’ll do the kit as a learning project after the percussion gun is finished
Thanks for all the advice!