AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: JHeath on December 12, 2021, 02:15:07 AM
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I haven't hunted with a flintlock.
Question: is the cocking noise an issue when game are near? Does anybody hold the trigger back to lift the sear while cocking, to eliminate the noise?
I bought a flintlock with a double set, single-lever trigger. The sear arm was modified to be dog-legged. With that mod, the rifle can be cocked without setting the trigger. So the sequence is normal: cock, set rear trigger, fire with front trigger.
But there is no way to avoid the clack-clack when cocking because the front trigger cannot be used to hold the sear up.
With an unmodified sear, this rifle cannot be cocked until the trigger is set. That seems to be common with single-lever triggers.
It's a Dru Hedgecock trigger, looks well made. Long bar. A gentle breeze can set it off depending on how it is adjusted. Would probably be perfect on a chunk gun, but this isn't one.
The lock is a large Siler.
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Nope, ive never had a deer spook from cocking. Don’t sweat it.
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I’ve had a few deer perk up their ears when I’ve cocked back but they went about their business within 20-30 seconds maybe 50 yds away
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I've cocked a large siler with deer less than 10 yards away. Like Tim said If they do hear anything they'll go back to their business in a little bit.
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Holding the trigger back can be noiseless unless you slip and blow the opportunity completely.
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LOL
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Yes, on a still evening when close they can hear it. I typically cock it close to my body with my gloved hand over the lock as I do so and haven't had any spook from that, and they normally don't hear it all. Gun up and already aiming and cocking with the lock in the air, so to speak? Yeah, that can spook a deer under the right/wrong conditions.
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With my limited experience I have not had them react at all to cocking the rifle. Closest was 20 yards a few days ago. Usually wait till their head is down or turned to shoulder the rifle, cocking it as it is raised.
Don
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As most have said, it's generally not a concern. Deer have excellent hearing, but it has one downside, it's very directional. If you're concerned about them hearing the click, wait until their ears are pointed away from your direction.
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If I see them coming I'll cock before they get right up on me. Other times, I cock the lock as I bring it to my shoulder. Deer often hear it, but never had them spook and run simply on the cocking. Depends a lot on the range and conditions. I have never tried to quiet the process with trigger manipulation.
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If you cock a lock on an Alabama whitetail it will be over the ridge in a heartbeat, you can hold the trigger back and cock it without any noise but this often hard to do with very cold numb fingers.
I keep my gun cocked while on a stand (not while walking) and use a frizzen stall. It is a lot easier to flip off that leather stall than to cock your gun and risk spooking off a deer or dropping the hammer by mistake, been there done that, BOOM!
I have the frizzen stall tied to my trigger guard with leather lacing, it is a stretch fit to get it on the frizzen and it isn't falling off even if I should drop the gun out of a treestand by accident.
(https://i.ibb.co/fvczrsX/fowler-at-work.jpg) (https://ibb.co/L5GX930)
(https://i.ibb.co/7Vp1fnG/frizzen-stall.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3WFC3p0)
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I don't know where all you folks hunt, but here in pa. I promise you they will react to the sound of that gun being cocked. Many times you don't get a shot. I agree with Eric, mabey our deer are more pressured.
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I had several store bought stalls but found if I cut out some cheap leather to fit my frizzen and glued the edges together with barge cement it worked just as well as the store bought stitched ones.
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I have for all my years of ML hunting silently cooked my piece by holding my finger on the trigger whilst bringing the cock back from half to full.
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After missing my first buck due to him whirling when I cocked and fired my single trigger Lancaster rifle, I made a frizzen stall and always hunt with it on full cock. I still hunt alone on my own property so I consider it safe. Most of the time my fingers are too cold to trust holding the trigger down and cocking the gun.
Dennis
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I have for all my years of ML hunting silently cooked my piece by holding my finger on the trigger whilst bringing the cock back from half to full.
Same here. My only big game rifle has a simple trigger on a cap gun.
My rabbit guns have all been double set, double throw and were cocked from 1/2 bent, frizzen closed on prime, holding front trigger
until cocked, then setting the rear trigger - never had a bunny 'jump' on the click of setting the triggers.
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I was going to comment but I will just say: Eric & Dennis have the right idea. Had a small group of elk coming in. One soft "click" and they all spun and left the county.
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(https://i.ibb.co/zQsmSLV/BEC1-AC4-C-10-CE-4264-B069-BD571-D64130-A.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vV1cJr4)
So, This afternoon I went hunting down on lower Stoner. This doe came up to about 40 yards away (sorry for the poor quality camera phone pic). I decided to give her a hearing test, and cocked my rifle without trying to muffle the sound with my glove or coat tail…. Nothing! brought it back to half cock and did it again…. Nothing! I finally got her attention when i was fumbling with my phone to take her pic. I don’t know what you fellers are doing to your deer to get em so goosey….. maybe ours are deaf???
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Time to give her the orange flame test!
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Im saving up!
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I have always silently cocked my firearm when big game hunting . Most of the black bears I've taken were within 25 yards or less. I've had a powder horn softly knock against the handle of my knife .....bear gone in an instant ! Deer can be a bit less spooky...or not.
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This is all great feedback. I really appreciate your time, effort, and the benefit of your experience. Keep it coming.
I have a stall, so that's a good idea. I can't silently cock with the single-lever trigger. But with the modified sear I can full-cock and (because the front trigger can't fire the rifle) I still have the "safety" of the required rear trigger/front trigger sequence.
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This is all great feedback. I really appreciate your time, effort, and the benefit of your experience. Keep it coming.
I have a stall, so that's a good idea. I can't silently cock with the single-lever trigger. But with the modified sear I can full-cock and (because the front trigger can't fire the rifle) I still have the "safety" of the required rear trigger/front trigger sequence.
I do similar. Gun is at full cock while sitting in one place, stall in place on frizzen. My front trigger can fire unset, but, is so heavy a pull even if you wanted to shoot unset, you wouldn't.
I will recommend two things if you are going to hunt at full cock with the small covering the frizzen. First, test your stall, on an empty gun prime your pan, close frizzen, cock, set, and squeeze the trigger. Obviously with the gun pointed in a safe direction. Consider it a dry fire practice opportunity. Does your stall actually stop the flint from contacting steel and firing the gun? I have seen and read about stalls made out of leather too soft and thin to stop a sharp flint from just cutting right through.
Second, be very, very, careful when decocking the gun. Don't try to decock to half cock. Open the frizzen, decock controlling the flintcock all the way forward, then recock to halfcock. Not the time to cut corners or rush.
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Time to give her the orange flame test!
Having hunted in KY, your deer are not deaf Stoner. their ears are full of ticks.
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I think the deer’s reaction depends on a number of factors. The first and probably most important is how pressured the deer have been. If they haven’t been pushed to you or been recently “jumped”, they are more relaxed and less on edge. If they have been driven to you, that is a different story. Any unusual sound and in my opinion, they will either turn tail and run or put themselves in high gear. Another factor to consider is how quiet the woods are that day. I have seen deer on a dead quiet day, lunge at the sound of me setting the trigger. For that reason, I cock my rifle and set the double set trigger as soon as I see them, taking my trigger finger out of the trigger guard. I only put my finger on the front trigger after I have aligned my sights on my target. If I don’t take the shot, I move the frizzen forward, carefully lower the cock, then set it to half cock and after checking my priming powder, lower the frizzen on to the pan. Then I am ready for the next encounter!
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As many others posted here I also have my rifle on full cock with a leather frizzen cover once I'm on my stand; when moving around it's half cock with the same frizzen cover in place. I've also on occasion cocked with the front trigger held back. But doing it that way involves a bit more risk than full cock with frizzen cover in place.
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Maybe if ya got them shot first chance, they would not be alive to recognize the "click" next time. Just kidding of course! Good luck.
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I hunted deer in an Alabama county that allowed dog deer hunting many years ago, I have never seen deer so wired, they didn't stop and listen if you made the slightest noise, they went into instant flight. I bowhunted on this land mostly and had packs of roaming hounds ruin 50% of my hunts. I caught one of the hounds that was hanging around the camp, called the number on the collar to return him to the owner and found he was dropped off 10 miles away and still made it to our land. I left this lease after ten years of frustration and never hunted private land in a dog running county again.
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Last year I had about a 3 year old buck come in to 20-yards. I cocked the hammer on my .58 and the buck looked up and ran back another 25-yards. Even I said to myself, "wow that was loud". Later that season two hogs came within 15-yards. When I cocked the rifle (a different one) they looked right at me for a second, then turned and ran. This year a group of javelina were within 50-yards. When the hammer went "click" they froze in their tracks for about a minute. They did continue to come in, but no doubt they heard it. I think the distance, wind and other noises make a huge difference as to whether the deer hear the cocking at all and whether they pay attention to it if they do.
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On my farm the deer just drop over dead from a heart attack when they hear the cocking of the lock as they know what is coming.
Fleener
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This is the reason my hunting flintlocks have a simple single trigger. I can cock the Davis Colonial lock on my York style longrifle without making a sound, by starting the cock back as I pull the trigger. At full cock, the trigger is released, and the cock holds. I also set my trigger height against the sear so there is no play. That reduced the “click” sound when cocking to a minimum.
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I've been doing this for a long time now and tried all the known methods of cocking my rifle quietly. Some have worked well, some not so well. Trouble is you can never know just how a deer will react to the foreign sound of a flintlock being cocked. Some stand quietly some bolt instantly.
By far, the best and safest way I've found is to use the common frizzen stall. Mine stays on the frizzen at all times until I'm ready to shoot.
I do sit with a fully cocked rifle with the stall. Unless I'm stalking an animal my lock is at half cock with the stall.
One morning right a break of day I got a broadside shot at a feeding boar. A big one. Maybe 300 pounds or more. I took careful aim and squeezed the trigger and heard a soft thud instead of my rifle going off. Yes, I had forgotten to remove the stall. Lesson learned and rifle stall tested all at once.
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On my farm the deer just drop over dead from a heart attack when they hear the cocking of the lock as they know what is coming.
Fleener
Dang Art, you're an hour from where I hunt out there, your deer must have excellent hearing! ;D
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I also use a hammer stall. I typically still don’t cock the rifle until I see a deer. Usually they are moving and making noise when I cock the gun. I haven spooked one yet that way. This years deer came out onto the food plot. I cocked the gun, raised and fired, clomp goes the flint against the leather covered frizzen. Dumb—— I said to myself. They startled, and went back to feeding. I pulled the cock back to full cock, checked the priming and this time took off the hammer stall. Raised the rifle and fired as the sights came into alignment on the spine of the broadside deer. I thought the deer were a good hundred yards out so I held a bit high. I only saw one of the two deer run away as the gun dropped out of recoil. I climbed down from the stand and reloaded as the light is fading. Walking out into the food plot I see white deer belly. The .58 has done its job again. I look up and give thanks for the harvest. I probably woke up a ground hog unloading the rifle into its hole.
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I think they all know the sound is unique. Some bolt, some think about it. If I hear them coming I pull it back.
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Sometimes they'll come toward the noise to investigate. Deer, like people, can be pretty dumb.
I'm no archer but I went with an old work buddy who was showing me how he approaches a deer. He missed a shot and... the deer walked over to the arrow to investigate and sniff at it. That deer did not pass on his genes.
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I would be in the cocked while in stand camp..with hammer stall on..
This practice has cost me 2 "slam dunk" deer....
That dull thud is really unnerving.
Both times it was so quiet and deer so close that the dull thud blew them out.
To say I get into the moment is and understatement.
Prefer to chuckle at my self when it happens...cause i hunt in good deer numbers areas.
Seems the ones you don't shoot come to mind first.
In both cases It kept me in the woods longer..whats not to like.
a side note..every one of my flintlock rifles will ignite the breech powder without any prime in the pan....a hammer stall is a must for piece of mind.
Happy Hunting...
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While rereading this post a realization came to mind....Deer often hear the Klatch without a bad spook. But hogs never do. If they hear that Klatch then that hog is gone. Right now. No chance to recock and shoot.
A born wild, wild hog has amazing speed and reaction time. Sometimes to put a deer to shame. But from experience I know the soft sound of flint against a leather hammer stall often gives you a shot.
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Thinking it over I realized that I've probably never lost a deer from cocking the rifle. I have had them skedaddle for other reasons just not for cocking. I learned long ago how to keep the rifle silent until it fires.
Still vivid in my memory are two bobcats I killed in the same week with my underhammer. The first one never heard a thing as it was walking directly away from me. In my comfortable wooden stand - maybe 8 feet up - I was dozing and comfy in the warm autumn woods when a slight sound brought me to attention. I saw the cat immediately and raised the underhammer .45 and cocked the hammer (no reaction from the cat) and fired. Actually that's when the "fun" started but that story's for another time. I got the cat.
A few days later I heard one walking past my stand on the left. This time when I cocked the hammer the cat froze momentarily then scooted a few feet behind a tree with several low limbs. The cat could see me but I couldn't see it. But as I stared at the tree I finally detected a bit of gray through a small hole formed by the fallen limbs. I shouldered the "already cocked" rifle aimed small and fired. Nothing moved so I got down and walked over to hole I'd fired through and there it was. It just happened to a part of the head I saw through the hole and now most of that was missing.
I could really shoot way back then but not so much now. I was always a methodical step by step shooter when shooting. But for some reason in the deer woods I tended to bring the rifle up knocking the frizzen stall off and firing as soon as the butt stock hit my shoulder (fitted me perfectly). It did keep me from second guessing the shot and aiming while shaking with buck fever.
With Eric's mention of dogs spoiling hunts that was a constant irritant when I lived in Virginia. But count me as a passionate dog lover who had several house dogs that we loved. A special one was a basset I raised from a pup until she died at 14. This experience left me with a special love for the big hearted breed.
In the woods going to my truck I was inundated by a swarm of dogs who shot past me without a glance in my direction. Well, true to form, a basset was running rear guard with the pack. But...BUT instead of following his cohorts he noticed me and happily came over to, absolutely, get petted and say "hi friend". To say he/she made my day is an understatement. Never had nor wanted a hunting dog, that's not my view of the species. Companions, rescuers, furry children are what they are.
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I grew up with guns with hammers and have always cocked silent when it was required. Its just second nature.
Up here it can get cold, and do not like the idea of having the mainspring at full cock all the time.
Never did use a cover on the frizzen either.
I suppose guns with hammers/cocks is maybe new to some, but for others its just the way its always been. Silent cocking has always worked.
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I usually silent cock my rifle, but have forgotten in the fever of the moment a few times on deer and bear. Never had one spook and run but some were on alert and or curious.
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Not M\L hunting but on one occasion I had whitetail deer running towards me. Of course, when they are running they are on high alert. I had my lever action laying across my lap with deer 15-20 yards away. I cocked the hammer....that first deer looked directly at me.....one snort.....and I was all by myself again.
It was all over in under 5 seconds.
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My "signature" on another forum, reads, "a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V.
My moose hunting rifle (cap-lock) has a single trigger = silent cocking of the hammer.
My bunny rifle has DS triggers, but also double throw. NP to hold the front trigger back when bringing the cock to full bent position.
Bunny's usually just stand a bit taller when they hear the click of the cock or triggers. Again, NP.
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Had this doe at 18 paces when I cocked the hammer. Look where she ended up.
(https://i.ibb.co/L8YHyJ5/20231019-191403.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DtzTF8p)
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In hunting every situation is different. If you are doing spot and stalk hunting in open country. you will see the game long before it knows you are there. If you are in a stand of some type and it is a very still day noise carries. If it is very windy, there is enough noise to mask most noises you will make. I don't use a hammer stall, I like my hunting rifles to have single triggers. My Hawken has double set triggers, but I can shoot the gun with the front trigger without setting it. I have killed a cow elk in such a manner. I don't like carrying a rifle with the trigger set. In close quarters in the Junipers you have to make quick decisions.
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I dog hunted deer in southeast Alabama for forty years....and had a ball!
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Like bird hunting Sharpman, hunting with a dog isn’t alway about killing game. Some of the most enjoyable hunts I’ve ever been on were black tail deer hunts in California with dogs. There’s nothing better than jumping up a big buck and having a little fox terrier run him around a thirty acre loop and bring him right back to you. Probably the part of hunting I miss most.
Hungry Horse
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Im a spot and stalk western hunter and if you cock a lock within 200 yards of a desert Coues deer it is going to go to warp speed before the sear fully seats in the fullcock notch. Percussion gun I use a homemade brass cover that goes over the capped nipple, flintlock I use a stall and I hold the trigger back to silently cock. Ive had deer spook and kick up dirt 150yds away flicking the safety off a modern bolt gun.
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Im a spot and stalk western hunter and if you cock a lock within 200 yards of a desert Coues deer it is going to go to warp speed before the sear fully seats in the fullcock notch. Percussion gun I use a homemade brass cover that goes over the capped nipple, flintlock I use a stall and I hold the trigger back to silently cock. Ive had deer spook and kick up dirt 150yds away flicking the safety off a modern bolt gun.
Interesting about your brass cover over the nipple. Would you have a photo of it you can share? I have an original half stock rifle that has no half cock so I fashioned a heavy three layer cover to place on the capped nipple when I was on stand. Seemed to work OK.
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Im actually up elk hunting now so my connection is slow but ill try to get a pic. I just take a piece of brass stock in the lathe and drill it out so that when i put it over the capped nipple and rest the hammer on it the brass cover bears against the drum or breech and doesnt touch the cap or nipple. I started doing this when I was hunting with original Leman trade guns that never seem to have a half cock notch. I make a few of them at a time when I make them And dont worry about it if I lose one in the field.
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Thanks Taylor. It sounds pretty straight forward. I hunt with flint locks now but I know others who will want to try that.
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On the lathe with a drill in the tailstock and a cutoff tool on the tool post I can make a bunch at once and I consider them semi-expandable in the field hunting. It would be easy to make them fancier or add a thong to them to keep them from getting lost but I hate strings and such hanging off a gun.