AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Contemporary Accoutrements => Topic started by: Dennis Daigger on December 22, 2021, 11:49:29 PM
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I've finished preparing the elk antler for a powder flask and hope I can find someone that has experience making the end caps. Since the profiles of the three ends are not circles they will have to be formed somehow and a solution simply eludes me. The spouts I plan to thead into two of the caps.
(https://i.ibb.co/85cK5WF/IMG-6646.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HzdFzWm)
(https://i.ibb.co/n8hS3CH/IMG-6647.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zHKw8Jy)
(https://i.ibb.co/Qd0tz51/IMG-6650.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4dk39Q5)
Thanks,
Dennis
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What kind of caps are you thinking, ones that fit over the opening , inside or a combination? One way would be to make wooden plugs that fit in the holes and covering them with a metal of choice, Brass, Sheet metal, Pewter.
I don't understand "the spouts I plan to thread into two of the caps." How many spouts are you going to have and what do they look like?
Tim C.
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One should remember, how the tops of the flasks have been made in the 19th century. They have been formed from metal sheets and soldered together.
This way you can adapt the form of the end cap.
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Dennis
Here are how many originals were done. The caps were shaped to match the body.
(https://i.ibb.co/LvcZdRw/20211129-114630.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jHQrkfK)
(https://i.ibb.co/rsdLkHp/20211129-114652.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0tsWqr9)
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Here are a couple of photos for reference showing powder containers in the Wallace Collection in London.
(https://i.ibb.co/T4p7SG8/IMG-20170902-143653.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gSHfp8T)
(https://i.ibb.co/TqgHKGq/IMG-20170902-143706.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HpHrNyp)
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Dennis, I made one and capped it with walnut forming to the natural configuration of the antler.
(https://i.ibb.co/pb1cTs0/IMG-0516.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Fmh21fx)
It looks like you have made the commitment already and caps would be in order. For that I would make them from silver with some kind of knurelled edges. Looks like a fun project, good luck.
Robby
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Thanks for the responses. Here are a couple of photos of what I had in mind. A post some time ago referenced a class covering the metal caps. https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=58987.msg590069#msg590069 and I was hoping to tap into that information.
(https://i.ibb.co/cYn6ds8/3688-51fbcf4d728.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MB0cLJ1)
(https://i.ibb.co/5xDnvc5/3385-51fbcf045e1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Wp9PFKc)
(https://i.ibb.co/NS91Hkd/ab4eafde57dfd336aa58441eb6e3d5a9-flasks-primer.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6BHvfp7)
To answer the questions. Metal caps and two spouts, one for priming and one for main charge. I can't imagine that the metal cap parts are soldered together in place without harming the antler.
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The antler is recessed in the areas you have cleaned up so as to make a lipped stop to accommodate the thickness of the metal you will be using to make the caps. I would make the rings first and form them to fit your antler shape and then apply the tops. I would also maybe use a piece of wood inside the antler for the cap pins to attach.
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Soldering on the antler will not hurt it, unless you try to use a torch but you don't have to. Plug the ends, looks like you've already got them recessed for them. Then make the caps and fit them to the antler. Scarf both ends of the strip you are using to make the band part of the cap to get a better joint and give a uniform thickness.
TC
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Could you pour pewter ends somehow?
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Could you pour pewter ends somehow?
I've done that
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Could you pour pewter ends somehow?
Yes, that would be pretty easy to do.
Tim C.
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Got the first one done and ready to attach to the antler. Pretty tedious but have some ideas for making the others easier.
(https://i.ibb.co/yyNK800/IMG-6679.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r6QqZkk)
(https://i.ibb.co/DWBHYYD/IMG-6680.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F3QLXXb)
Dennis
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Looks good Dennis. I'm surprised the silver is there already.
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That looks Great, look forward to seeing it finished.
Tim
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Caps are done and have the spout and lever bar and round stock ordered.
I can't make out from the photos how the flasks are filled so will simple make them to be filled through the spout unless someone actually knows how they are made.
(https://i.ibb.co/fDGbG0N/IMG-6684.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hY1k18d)
(https://i.ibb.co/b2z45nT/IMG-6685.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9VsxHj6)
Dennis
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They look great. How did you attach them to the antler?
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WOW! To say the least; Nice work.
Tim
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Thanks for the positive feed back.
James, the caps are not yet permanently attached. I got some 1/4" #2 and #3 unplated screws from Bolt Depot some time ago but none were round headed. They no longer list an unplated version of them so will thread rod for 2-56 or 3-56 and use three on each cap to ensure the caps are secured. I used archer's cement (the amber transparent kind) that is heated to apply and this will water proof the caps and secure them. This stuff is really tough and the screws would probably not be needed.
I used a small butane soldering iron for the solder ups. It allowed me to very precisely apply heat with the parts on the antler, keep the heating of the antler to a minimum and to precisely control the temp of the parts to just flow solder on one small area at a time. I used wire wraps on the first one and thought I might improve overall fit by using a screw type hose clamp which I did with the second. Unfortunately, my sheet stock is delicate and the clamp left indentations. The last cap was done with wire again.
Here are some photos for anyone that might want to try this.
(https://i.ibb.co/zJDDzRQ/IMG-6682.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4d33HTK)
.100" German silver was used for the cap ends. I traced the outer edge of the antler onto the plate and then milled a rabbit around the line .050" deep.
(https://i.ibb.co/Jp1Sqqb/IMG-6683.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dpTHtt3)
(https://i.ibb.co/JBZg7Mm/IMG-6681.jpg) (https://ibb.co/K0nSq3b)
(https://i.ibb.co/F6B6W2m/IMG-6678.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jhLh5mb)
Dennis
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Thanks, Tim
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Looks good!
I have a couple very large ones waiting in the wings for me at.some point.
(https://i.ibb.co/C7CydKL/20211223-100454.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SnYgTwS)
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This thread is very timely and has given me some ideas, as I am planning a miniature version as a primer. I have a whitetail shed from my family's hunting property that I've made powder measures from, and now have left the antler base for a knife handle, and a forked section that I think will make a cool priming flask. Your project looks great so far. Thanks for sharing.
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Got the large spout done today so the lever is next.
(https://i.ibb.co/p1YL1pZ/IMG-6692.jpg) (https://ibb.co/51bR1Vv)
(https://i.ibb.co/SvWnbf0/IMG-6691.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ysGyt45)
Dennis
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Looking good Dennis! Let km know when you fell like making another (smile).
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Looking good Dennis! Let km know when you fell like making another (smile).
And I will send one of the pieces I posted above when you are done with Ron's! ;D
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Hmm.. Ron and James my Carlsbad Jaeger is awaiting carving and I have the leather for the jagdtaschen but haven't started yet. :-\ ;)
Dennis
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Got the big charger done and will do the final polish when the flask is done.
(https://i.ibb.co/7Wcnh98/IMG-6704.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d29PZh1)
(https://i.ibb.co/ysfkZw4/IMG-6705.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QmbHT2D)
(https://i.ibb.co/pr452jc/IMG-6706.jpg) (https://ibb.co/n8QtrM9)
Dennis
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Charger looks great Dennis. Can't wait to see it when you get it done!
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Very impressed as well as inspired! Now to find the time. Thanks for sharing your progress!
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That is some excellent work. To my eye the octagon portion of the charger looks a touch bulky. Almost begs to be barrel shaped.
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Clark-it does look a bit pudgy. I shortened the length of the spout on the example I was working from and this had two effects. The first was what you noted and the second is that a shorter long arm of the lever also reduced the cap clearance away from the tip when the lever is fully depressed. The opening is sufficiently accessible to pour powder so that's not really a problem but greater clearance would have allowed for less precise positioning of the measure.
I used a vertically mounted rotary table to cut the facets on the spouts. It would have been nice to have tapered them and that too would have reduced the pudginess but I'm not equiped to do that. Maybe taper by hand? A Swiss pattern of the Nicholson pillar file I have been using is wicked fast on these soft metals and doesn't clog or gall.
I made the spout initially octagonal and when I started fitting the pivot post it was hard to fit. I remade a spout that was hexagonal and this allowed me to cut a 'V' in the bottom of the post on the mill with the piece position at a 120° angle and cut from each side.
If there is any interest in other 'lessons learned' I can share those. The biggest lesson learned is this is not something I would want to do for a living.
Dennis
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Even though a bit pudgy, it's still an incredible job. Now you got me wanting to try fabricating parts for a French pulverin.
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Got the flask finished.
(https://i.ibb.co/2vVnDSq/IMG-6729.jpg) (https://ibb.co/X702hDX)
(https://i.ibb.co/7RmVCmh/IMG-6728.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gPKw9KY)
Dennis
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Very nice. Where did you find the green chord?
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That is really neat. If you will forgive a suggestion, a little engraving/scrimshaw/carving would move this into the "Top Tier" in my opinion. Thanks for posting!
Carl
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Very well done. A couple question; How much powder does it hold and why the two spouts.
Tim
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Looks really nice. I have the same question as Tim. Why the two spouts? Does it have two chambers for different powder?
Jim
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Yes, two chambers, the smaller one for priming powder and the larger for main charges.
Tim-the large chamber holds just shy of 1600 grains of FFg. I haven't filled the smaller chamber but it larger enough to hold quite a bit of 3F or 4F.
Clark-the cord is braided linen cord that I found on Etsy and came from Latvia. It was relatively flat and I bulked it up by threading two strands of heavy line through it. I used aniline dyes for the green color.
I have never attempted engraving and probably lack the artistic talent to do it well so the flask will stay as is.
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Wow! That's Bigger than it looks.
Thanks, Tim
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I have never attempted engraving and probably lack the artistic talent to do it well so the flask will stay as is.
You lack the artistic talent to do engraving? Dennis, the work you've displayed lately on this site says otherwise. Go for it!