AmericanLongRifles Forums

General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: alacran on January 03, 2022, 03:58:25 PM

Title: January Postal Match
Post by: alacran on January 03, 2022, 03:58:25 PM
By popular demand we will have a January stand-alone shoot.
The target can be found in the NMLRA website, under downloads. It is their Feb 2020 target.
The rules are 5 shots at 25 yards. Any position, Standing, Sitting, Kneeling, or Prone. No benches or Cross-Sticks.
Any hits on the Colonial Cherub equals minus 10 points.
Rifle or Smooth bore.
Shoot as many as you want. If it is posted, it will be considered an entry.
Enjoy!
(https://i.ibb.co/1b6zG5m/Monthly-Target-Feb-2020-Scores.jpg) (https://ibb.co/stHW9GV)
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: OldMtnMan on January 03, 2022, 04:18:50 PM
To make a shoot fair the shooting position should be the same for everybody. The prone position has a big advantage over any other position. It's as steady as using a bench.

The problem is not everybody can do it. I won't whine about medical problems but i'll just say I can't shoot any position but offhand. That's the extreme but i'm sure some old guys here can't shoot prone and maybe not kneeling either.

The competition should be the other shooters. Not the rules. No matter how hard of easy the shoot is. It should be the same for everybody.

I'm not shooting this shoot. I won't be ready for it but if I was shooting i'd skip it. I have no chance to win no matter what but I like to at least know it's fair for everybody.

I plan to enter postal shoots on another forum besides this one. It's always 25yds and offhand. That's how it should be. 25 yds for those without good vision and offhand because it takes the most skill and everybody can do it unless they can't stand and they get an exemption to shoot sitting. (wheelchair)

Just an old coots opinion.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: bob in the woods on January 03, 2022, 04:34:13 PM
I like the target   :)   I didn't have any time at all to shoot the Dec match, although I wanted to. Dec was filled with getting firewood, hunting, preparing  for winter, and suffering through crazy weather .   Best wishes to all for a happy, heathy, and prosperous 2022 .   
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: alacran on January 03, 2022, 05:47:41 PM
Good to see you are still with us Mountain Man.
Last month the rules allowed for bench or offhand.
The shoot is not really a competition against other shooters. You should be shooting against yourself.
I did forget to mention, the winner will not be receiving a BMW.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: OldMtnMan on January 03, 2022, 07:00:51 PM
No BMW!!!

$#*!, i'm not shooting!
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: smylee grouch on January 03, 2022, 07:46:20 PM
Good target I havent shot one of these events yet but if I can get through the snow out at my cabin I will give it a go from any position other than rest. I hope off hand off my walker is ok. Gotta find a snow blower guy first.  ;D :)
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: MuskratMike on January 03, 2022, 08:07:03 PM
Looks fine to me. I will get some printed and show you all how poorly an old man can shoot.
If I can make a suggestion limit the number of targets. Some can only get to a range a couple of times in a month, while some just step out on the back porch and can bang away every day.
I am not grousing but I would think a limit of 5 targets is plenty, but hey it's your match and I am glad to shoot in it.
By the way I don't want no stinking automatic in my BMW I want a gearbox or I will return it.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: OldMtnMan on January 03, 2022, 08:38:29 PM
How about a winner for the worse score?

I have a chance at that one.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: D. Taylor Sapergia on January 03, 2022, 09:44:46 PM
Pete that is not as crazy as it may sound.  For years, I sponsored a primitive archery contest at the BC Rendezvous, and gave away a dozen hand made primitive arrows with stone points hand knapped my yours truly, hand split wild turkey feathers and sinew lashings.  I gave 1st, 2nd, and third in three divisions based on gender and age, and I gave a arrow to the worst score and the median score.  Sometimes I gave an arrow to the prettiest woman or the person who travelled the furthest.  No one can say I will ever die of mad cow's disease, 'cause I'm a pig!
I think we gave up on giving prizes at these monthly postal matches, because of the burden of the cost of shipping.  So no more BMW's or Lexis's.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: OldMtnMan on January 03, 2022, 10:07:36 PM
Well, lets have a lowest score by the ugliest shooter. The ugly will break up the ties.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: D. Taylor Sapergia on January 03, 2022, 10:22:05 PM
In the end, it's up to alacran ... it's his well earned match.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: OldMtnMan on January 03, 2022, 10:26:58 PM
Just joking around. I don't expect rules to be changed. I'll always shoot offhand if it fits into the rules.

I need a few months to get all I need to shoot.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: D. Taylor Sapergia on January 03, 2022, 10:33:16 PM
Daryl and I need the temperature to get up somewhere tolerable...ie:  around freezing.  Snowing hard again today...
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: OldMtnMan on January 03, 2022, 11:35:46 PM
I used to love the cold. I wouldn't mind 12 months of summer now.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Nessmuck on January 03, 2022, 11:55:53 PM
Taylor....I would love a few of those arrows you made...they must look beautiful. They would go good with my welshman 74 inch Yew English Self bow
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Daryl on January 04, 2022, 12:49:14 AM
Most would be too lightly spined Nessmuck. They are beautiful, though. We, my wife and I, have a few of these prizes. Some years, they had stone, flint or obsidian points, other years
steel. There will no no sitting, kneeling or prone shooting up here.

(https://i.ibb.co/MszVvNY/IMG-3159.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f23pg0h)
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Nessmuck on January 04, 2022, 03:39:45 AM
Most would be too lightly spined Nessmuck. They are beautiful, though. We, my wife and I, have a few of these prizes. Some years, they had stone, flint or obsidian points, other years
steel. There will no no sitting, kneeling or prone shooting up here.

(https://i.ibb.co/MszVvNY/IMG-3159.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f23pg0h)

Very nice ! I’ll take 1/2 dozen of the arrows with the white chert….in 45-50 spine weight….lol
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: alacran on January 04, 2022, 03:32:32 PM
Looks fine to me. I will get some printed and show you all how poorly an old man can shoot.
If I can make a suggestion limit the number of targets. Some can only get to a range a couple of times in a month, while some just step out on the back porch and can bang away every day.
I am not grousing but I would think a limit of 5 targets is plenty, but hey it's your match and I am glad to shoot in it.
By the way I don't want no stinking automatic in my BMW I want a gearbox or I will return it.
[/quote
That would be the same as saying you can only shoot one target. Unenforceable, would a practice target also count?  I only shot one target for score in the December match. But I did shoot at totally different target first since I was trying out different patch material. All I had time for.
Thought about having 4 targets shot from each position. However, I know that some of us can't get prone without a crane to get us back up. Rules are simple just have fun with them.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: coopersdad on January 08, 2022, 12:47:36 AM
I've never shot one of these matches, so figured it was time.  I managed to mess up immediately, somehow downloading the wrong target.  It is missing the ring around the X, as well as the scoring numbers, but otherwise it appears the same.  No idea how I did that.

Anyway, it was a nice sunny day, about 45.  I shot three targets, all standing.  Clearly I need work on my offhand shooting, but was getting better as I went along.  This was a fun target. 

.50 caliber flint, .490 Hornady ball, 65 gr. 3F Goex, .018 denim patch, spit. 
(https://i.ibb.co/VMp2qhQ/IMG-5455.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ygBWQMY)

(https://i.ibb.co/xFnSm8d/IMG-5456.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BnhV4KF)

(https://i.ibb.co/2gBjDXq/IMG-5457.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4Pxj6BW)
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Daryl on January 08, 2022, 01:43:52 AM
Well done, Mike, That 3rd target looks like it has an X.
To me, they look like: 44, 46, 46 1X. Well done. I am hoping Taylor and I can get out to shoot it Mon or Tues.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: coopersdad on January 08, 2022, 02:35:02 AM
Thanks Daryl.  I was scoring them as over half the ball needed to be in the scoring area, not just touching the ring.  I'm used to scoring where if it touches it counts, so maybe  I scored it wrong. I thought it was an X until I saw the proper target, where the X ring is the same size as the X.  It's an X if it counts touching, but not if it has to be half a ball. 
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Daryl on January 08, 2022, 02:41:46 AM
Yeah - you're right - it's not quite in 1/2 way, maybe 1/4? There is a curvature of the line between the tops of the lines and the next one,
of course.
-20 right now, -27 (-16.5F) with wind chill. Still a mite too chilly for us seniors. Supposed to be above freezing by 1 or 2 degrees by Tuesday.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: MuskratMike on January 08, 2022, 04:30:52 AM
Now that the polar express has come and gone it has been replaced with well above freezing temperatures and heavy, heavy rain. All this is causing flooding and making it all a mess. Should be better next week and if not by the 3rd week I will get out and embarrass myself for all your viewing enjoyment.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Daryl on January 08, 2022, 05:39:44 AM
Looking forward to THAT company, Mike.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: alacran on January 08, 2022, 04:49:36 PM
Good shooting Coopersdad.  You are correct in the scoring, half ball rule.
Hopefully the weather will improve, and we get more entries.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: OldMtnMan on January 08, 2022, 04:57:48 PM
Nice shooting. I can barely remember when my eyesight was good enough to shoot like that. I'd need a scope to do it now.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Daryl on January 12, 2022, 03:01:00 AM
Well, finally some decent weather - nice - warm +2 C (35.6F) shot a few targets, went even worse quickly. LOL
Pair of 45's/50 with my .36 spit for lube.
oops:
Need a heavier rifle - if we get out again, it will be with the .69(my target rifle)


(https://i.ibb.co/2WwXhMW/IMG-3164.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sbhLR1b)


Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: alacran on January 12, 2022, 03:57:25 PM
Good to see you got to play Daryl.  A pair of 45's is good, after all it seems you've been shut in for a while.
Hopefully I'll get to go out and shoot the target this week. Of course, it won't count.
I have a javelina hunt coming up in Feb. Plan on using my smoothbore, have to make some real meat other than tree rats with it.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Maven on January 12, 2022, 06:41:08 PM
Nice work, Daryl!  Glad the weather has moderated for you because it sure isn't here.  Warm, even hot weather sounds very appealing right now.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: D. Taylor Sapergia on January 12, 2022, 08:26:42 PM
As Daryl said, the weather went from -30 to + 3 with nice sunshine and no wind yesterday.  We haven't been able to get out since Novemeber, so this was a very pleasant afternoon.
My first target was pretty shaky but I settled down for my next two or three and shot these.  They all score 48 but the best one is a 48 2X.  The eight at 3 o'clock was my first shot.  For reasons I don't grasp, I always throw one shot in the toilet.  I suspect it has to do with lack of practice and age.

Anyway, here's my targets.  I used my Chambers' Mark Silver Virginia rifle which I rebarrelled last summer from a .50 cal to a .60 cal. and I'm loving it.


(https://i.ibb.co/vQ32xfC/0-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1drHfBY)

(https://i.ibb.co/XpXGRt1/0-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mtJPW4k)
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Maven on January 12, 2022, 09:13:31 PM
Excellent targets, Taylor!
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: MuskratMike on January 13, 2022, 02:08:06 AM
Can not believe the weather changes here in Oregon. 2-3 weeks ago I was shoveling snow (a not so common occurrence here in the valley), then warmer weather and too much rain with rivers flooding (thankfully not near me) and now today zero wind, slight overcast and 57 degrees. Shot a couple of targets, didn't do bad for a shaky old guy with bad eyes. Going back out again tomorrow with my .32 caliber Gillespie "tribute" rifle and see what she can do. If you can't read the targets I shot them with my Kibler .40 caliber SMR .395 round ball .018 ticking patch lubed with a 50/50 mixture of T.O.T.W. mink oil and pure Neatsfoot oil, 60 grains of GOEX 3F.
(https://i.ibb.co/Y0WksRb/Jan-2022-Postal-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LNPt7kv)

(https://i.ibb.co/RvnyVnn/Jan-2022-Postal-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7Yc46cc)
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Daryl on January 13, 2022, 03:29:18 AM
Looking pretty good, Mike. I would score that bottom target 48 1X.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: MuskratMike on January 13, 2022, 04:04:44 AM
Didn't want to look greedy, I'll bow to the judge on that one but I kind of agree.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Dphariss on January 13, 2022, 04:35:31 AM
Just joking around. I don't expect rules to be changed. I'll always shoot offhand if it fits into the rules.

I need a few months to get all I need to shoot.

Remember that historically matches were shot with a rest. A chunk or something like we used in the Cody turkey matches some years back.
Offhand was considered a poor test of the rifle. So when you read of then shooting at marks on a piece of wood between someone's knees it was not from standing.

(https://i.ibb.co/pKwWKs0/DSCN2653.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fNF8NK1)

(https://i.ibb.co/0DCvBvY/P1020654.jpg) (https://ibb.co/X27MyMF)
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Dphariss on January 13, 2022, 04:41:36 AM
As Daryl said, the weather went from -30 to + 3 with nice sunshine and no wind yesterday.  We haven't been able to get out since Novemeber, so this was a very pleasant afternoon.
My first target was pretty shaky but I settled down for my next two or three and shot these.  They all score 48 but the best one is a 48 2X.  The eight at 3 o'clock was my first shot.  For reasons I don't grasp, I always throw one shot in the toilet.  I suspect it has to do with lack of practice and age.

Anyway, here's my targets.  I used my Chambers' Mark Silver Virginia rifle which I rebarrelled last summer from a .50 cal to a .60 cal. and I'm loving it.


(https://i.ibb.co/vQ32xfC/0-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1drHfBY)

(https://i.ibb.co/XpXGRt1/0-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mtJPW4k)
Nice.
I have too much wind here for offhand and I have some virus thats keeping me in the house. Current weather from my phone that knows everything cause its smart.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Dphariss on January 13, 2022, 04:46:50 AM
Dang it, hit the wrong key before posting the weather

(https://i.ibb.co/SsxrTYy/IMG-6-FAF83760210-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VjNmyn9)
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Dphariss on January 13, 2022, 07:43:57 AM
Took this photo while headed to the shop the other day. The warm Chinook wind was rolling snow balls.

Dan
(https://i.ibb.co/GQBmbZ8/1-EAC50-F8-CE94-424-C-A699-1-EE378-F3327-C.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xqPZRnB)

Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: alacran on January 13, 2022, 04:19:33 PM
Great shooting Taylor! You too Muskrat! You both shot 48s. Center of ball only has to touch edge of line. Line is not a straight line. Taylor has the x count.
Dan, a lot of matches were shot offhand, and there are period pictures that show that.
Not to mention that Shuetzen matches have been shot from a standing position for hundreds of years.
I believe that the test of the shooter, has been more important than the test of the rifle, whether shooting standing or from a rest. 
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Dphariss on January 13, 2022, 06:13:37 PM
Great shooting Taylor! You too Muskrat! You both shot 48s. Center of ball only has to touch edge of line. Line is not a straight line. Taylor has the x count.
Dan, a lot of matches were shot offhand, and there are period pictures that show that.
Not to mention that Shuetzen matches have been shot from a standing position for hundreds of years.
I believe that the test of the shooter, has been more important than the test of the rifle, whether shooting standing or from a rest.

Well the only actual written description is in “The Frontier Rifleman” by La Crosse. Its a quote from “Notes on the Settlements and Indian Wars of the Western Parts of Virgina and Pennsylvania 1763 to 1783.”  Reverend Joseph Doddridge.
However. The Reverend died in 1826 from what I can find and the book was published in 1876 by his daughter.
I would also point out that beef shoots and such were still being shot from a rest in Kentucky and Tennessee right up to current day near as I can tell. I do think that the advent of the crescent butt may show that offhand shooting was more  common, or not. ??? It a quick search of the WWW I could not find any Miller Paintings of the West showing rifle matches. But will keep looking.

(https://i.ibb.co/kqPj9ZV/291610-F4-0135-4-C58-BD1-B-4639-AB1-E0545.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XFG13Hf)

I have a friend who has an early Don King rifle, from about 1958 IIRC, its a bench copy of an original Don had access too.
Its not a very comfortable rifle in offhand and my friend who now owns the rifle could not fathom why it was stocked this way. Then he tried it from a plank rest and found it is ideal for shooting with a rest.
The detail from the painting I posted is called “Turkey Shoot at Sarasota Springs” and was done in 1876 but I believe the match depicted is from earlier though the man with the cigar seems to have a tube or telescopic sight on his rifle.

(https://i.ibb.co/jh5JJn4/D71-CE325-B503-4-D96-A9-CF-53-D69-B359-D66.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G7JHHzP)
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Dphariss on January 13, 2022, 07:54:42 PM
Great shooting Taylor! You too Muskrat! You both shot 48s. Center of ball only has to touch edge of line. Line is not a straight line. Taylor has the x count.
Dan, a lot of matches were shot offhand, and there are period pictures that show that.
Not to mention that Shuetzen matches have been shot from a standing position for hundreds of years.
I believe that the test of the shooter, has been more important than the test of the rifle, whether shooting standing or from a rest.
I understand Schuetzen shooting have done some of it. But thats not the subject here. The dedicated Schuetzen rifle is far different than what the average American would have been using. Schuetzen is a very specialized sport and there was a LOT of money in the matches. Here is a shooters box and the attendant gear needed to be competitive. Nots that some of it. The starter, for example, is pretty delicate and easily damaged. Now there are some what I would call “general purpose” rifles in the volume  pictured and could be used in the field for hunting I suppose if they shot OK with a RB. The Schuetzen rifle is really no more relevant to a site dedicated to the longrifle than a 60 pound Horace Warner  slug gun. Both are, by and large, a specialized rifle used for a specific purpose. The average man with a hunting rifle could not compete. No matter how good a shot he was.

(https://i.ibb.co/cknNJQb/7-BEE54-DE-2663-4818-BCEC-5-B2-D44-E4-AF68.jpg) (https://ibb.co/34Z01cf)

(https://i.ibb.co/5TXJKy8/D0-F645-EA-65-D5-4-AC2-B6-A5-CC4-C201-E7-FFD.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b1jGbZB)

(https://i.ibb.co/2h1311L/C6-E572-CF-93-E5-460-C-9-ADD-76-AEED7-EAFE4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jfPkPPx)

Just using a picket bullet is a PITA for someone who only hunts and shoots 60 yard turkey or beef shoots. Yes I have made up and shot a picket bullet with and without a guide starter, bullets swaged from lead wire. I built an under hammer bullet gun back in the late 1980s IIRC and shot it out as far as 1000-1200 yards.  There is not much in the ML world that i have not and least dabbled in.  I just went through a long list of Alfred Jacob Miller art. Not one of people shooting rifles. There are three of people shooting pistols. One a native shooting in the air and another of a man horseback shooing a cougar with a pistol and one of Stewart shooting at elk, horse back in a stream with a pistol. Both he and Catlin show “indians” testing their bows. No rifle shooting that would be pertinent to this discussion.
There are three surviving S Hawken rifles with pistol grip stocks and provisions for a Schuetzen tang sight, at least  one such sight survives  But the Hawkens were in St Louis and there were people making dedicated Schuetzen rifles there by the 1850s.  However, the do not appear to be picket rifles since there is no provision for a starter unless the muzzle is recessed.

Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: alacran on January 13, 2022, 10:20:24 PM
The rifles that were shot at Shuetzen Fests in the 16th century were nothing like those you show above. That is what evolved in the 19th century. I agree that a lot of competitions in North America were shot using rests. Just like today both types of matches were popular.
During the US Civil War, to become one of Berdan's Sharpshooters, qualification was ability to shoot standing. That is not an ability that is acquired by shooting off a rest.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Dphariss on January 13, 2022, 11:52:42 PM
The rifles that were shot at Shuetzen Fests in the 16th century were nothing like those you show above. That is what evolved in the 19th century. I agree that a lot of competitions in North America were shot using rests. Just like today both types of matches were popular.
During the US Civil War, to become one of Berdan's Sharpshooters, qualification was ability to shoot standing. That is not an ability that is acquired by shooting off a rest.

Should have been more careful with my wording. Of course there were surely SOME offhand shooting. But the only reference I can find from the TIME in the late 18th and early 19th says it was  from a rest. I pay attention and look for things like this. By time it was popular in the US it was fired at 200 yards. Thus the  picket bullets, gg and pp bullets and various starters.  Most American rifle matches were shot at 11-12 rods, 60 odd yards. Good distance for a round ball rifle. The hard core bench shooter shot at 20 rods and beyond. According to Hamilton and Rowe the style of shooting known as “Schuetzen” did not arrive here until well into the 19th C . The first schuetzen verein in the US was not established until 1846 in Philadelphia. Most of the German immigrants were from cosmopolitan areas and they gravitated to the cities. It spread pretty rapidly in the late 1840s  into the 1850s and a great many big names in late 19th, early 20c  started out shooting schuetzen.  It was centered around population centers since that is where the Germans ended up for the most part and was was a spectator sport. The anti-German sentiment  after we entered WW-I killed Schuetzen in the US, the ranges and the schuetzen houses are almost all gone.
And according to Hamilton and Rowe the rifles were already evolving into the “modern” style by the 17th c in Europe.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: MuskratMike on January 14, 2022, 01:21:22 AM
Here are what's probably my last 2 targets for the month. Yesterday warm sunny, and no wind. Today rain, colder and a wind (not good for a .32 caliber). Not bad for an old guy with bad eyesight and shaky hands. Today I shot my Don Bruton made "Mathew Gillespie" tribute rifle. It is a .32 caliber, 35 grains of GOEX 3F, .018 ticking patch greased with a 50/50 mix of T.O.T.W. mink grease and pure Neatsfoot oil and a .310 round ball. good luck to all who shoot this match this month, hopefully we will get a few more shooters.
(https://i.ibb.co/2tkDvs8/Jan-2022-Postal-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zR4yX78)

(https://i.ibb.co/ByC5zg5/Jan-2022-Postal-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9brk8qk)
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Daryl on January 14, 2022, 02:45:43 AM
Nice entry, Mike.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: alacran on January 14, 2022, 04:18:24 PM
Good shooting Mike. You tied Taylors X count, but he still has you on group size. Good to see all the entries.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Daryl on January 15, 2022, 01:53:59 AM
Taylor and I got out again - bit colder today & "telling" on the hands. Still a better target, but I cheated and used my target rifle.
I have one target to post. I placed balls in 2 of the holes as well as measuring the 4 o'clock hole. Only .278" outside the line, so
over 1/2 ball inside.

(https://i.ibb.co/0BY0XL9/IMG-3165.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GsCZJDM)

(https://i.ibb.co/Nrgq3mr/IMG-3166.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MfyHhGf)
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: D. Taylor Sapergia on January 15, 2022, 03:29:56 AM
If I was only a little bit of a better shot!  It's really a blessing to have my brother for competition because we continuously challenge each other, and maybe place the stress of competition on each other too.  I found the weather bitter today...hands cold and couldn't warm them.  And I shot a more challenging rifle today too, my Kuntz "copy", in .40 cal. with a simple trigger.  Still, with the Chambers' Late Ketland lock, lock time is very fast and the rifle is a joy to shoot.  Here's my two submissions for today...




(https://i.ibb.co/pjtYdm3/0-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yFwHq38)

(https://i.ibb.co/bdGD17W/0-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YjVw2bR)
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: alacran on January 15, 2022, 03:36:24 PM
Great shooting by the Sapergia Brothers. Daryl, since I do not have your target to place over an un-shot target, I have to take a guess. I see your target as a 50 with one clear X.  Those big balls certainly tear up a target.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Daryl on January 15, 2022, 11:15:40 PM
Tks alacran - we may get out again, if the weather holds.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: alacran on January 17, 2022, 03:02:24 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/Hh4sqM6/0116221431.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7kC5KTP)
I shot this yesterday with my .62 cal. smoothbore. All I plan on shooting till my Javelina hunt is over.
600 ball Jo Ann's pocket drill, bear lube, and 70 grains 2F Goex. Score it a 43. One ball had a mind of its own.
I had run out of ink so I printed only one target. I first shot at a target that was nearly identical, to warm up. Afterwards I shot a trail walk I had set up last month.
Three 10' sawblades and four 7 1/2-inch blades ranging from 45 to 70 yards. I shoot them as soon as I find them. my rules. Happy I hit them all.
.600 ball takes chunks out of the blades.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: bob in the woods on January 17, 2022, 04:41:55 PM
No shooting today. The cold snap continues but now we have a raging blizzard to enhance our enjoyment  ;)   
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: D. Taylor Sapergia on January 17, 2022, 10:08:39 PM
Bob: that's how it was for us all throughout December.  We had a week of +3 C here and were able to get out to the range.  It can't last.  Jan and Feb are our coldest nastiest months.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Daryl on January 17, 2022, 10:17:11 PM
Good target, alacran. Fliers sometimes abound, with a smoothie. Sometimes you get a target with none.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Maven on January 18, 2022, 02:08:17 AM
Nice work with a smoothie, alacran! :) :)
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Jburt9 on January 18, 2022, 06:28:07 AM
Long time lurker, first time poster. Shot both of these with my .54 Kibler colonial. 90 grains Goex 3F .530 ball, Joanns pocket drill patch with track mink oil lube. Shot standing. I forgot to put my card board backer behind the first target so it’s a bit blown out but still readable.
Scored 46-2X and 47.

Jeff

(https://i.ibb.co/1qGLfWT/A13-AED6-A-4322-483-F-8-BAE-23-BBA9-E7-A418.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sw92vYq)

(https://i.ibb.co/mTNBh4y/AB628-B6-D-7695-4-AE3-AD42-7-EC6-F10184-D6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7CkzrKp)
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Daryl on January 18, 2022, 07:18:50 AM
Thanks for entering, Jeff- get the elevation AND windage under control and they will all be in the middle.
When you look at the width of the vertical group and the height of the horizontal group, the potential for a 5X is definitely there.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: alacran on January 18, 2022, 04:24:05 PM
Thanks Daryl and Maven.
Jeff glad you chose the Postal Match for your first post. Welcome to the forum. Good shooting!
I suppose Cabin fever has inspired all the shooting, keep it up.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Maven on January 18, 2022, 07:34:14 PM
Hot @!*%, you guys are good shots! :) :)  Unfortunately the weather here hasn't been conducive to any kind of outdoor shooting (bitterly cold, snow) although I did manage to get a short bike ride in on Jan. 14th.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Daryl on January 18, 2022, 11:01:18 PM
Jeff - it appears you might have used 2 different "holds". Just a guess. Well, man, the potential is tremendous. :o
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Jburt9 on January 19, 2022, 12:52:36 AM
Jeff - it appears you might have used 2 different "holds". Just a guess. Well, man, the potential is tremendous. :o

Thanks Daryl,

The first target I was indeed trying to figure out my elevation, my front sights filed down for a 100 yard zero. I got I figured for the second target but just couldn’t hold hard enough to keep my windage under control.

Jeff
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Daryl on January 20, 2022, 03:53:32 AM
Took a picture with a target underneath.
I measured .271" from line to the outside of the ball holes.
Both the 4th and 5th shots are the same. 1/2 ball is .341"
since you don't have the means to measure it yourself. The
picture with the balls, shows just 1/2, as the ball is actually
pushing out on the paper.
Still lots of time for a 50 2X or better. It is quite a big 10 ring.

(https://i.ibb.co/m0MWJxg/Jan-Postal-Match.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qCPQBZV)
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: alacran on January 20, 2022, 03:37:11 PM
You never posted a score on your target, biggest reason I had to guess. That is a very good target and if one considers the conditions, you shot it in it is an excellent target.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Daryl on January 24, 2022, 01:25:35 AM
We got out again today, bit warmer as in 42F.
I could not improve my score but shot a 48/50.
I marked the target 47/50, then took a picture, then measured the 7 o'clock hole, that was just
.007" inside the outside of the white 10 rime, so it should be a 10. Either way, is is not
good enough to bet my previous score. .240" from outside of the 10 ring line to the outside of the hole.
.2475" is 1/2 ball., so it is inside by .007". LOL
Incidentally, I tried 60gr. 2F, 70gr. 2F both poor, then shot this target with 85gr. 2F which showed
in the past to be more accurate - at 50 yards. Maybe I just have more confidence in it?

(https://i.ibb.co/YNCzQDq/50-Beck.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zmMyx80)
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: D. Taylor Sapergia on January 24, 2022, 03:13:07 AM
Nor was I able to improve my score...another 48/50 and no "X's".  I used my Herman Rupp copy (the one I built for Brian Dancey, and employed my new bag and horn set in the process.  I have it set up now for .50 cal round ball, and that'll serve three rifles with another on the back burner, so that's a good use of a great bit of truck.
Unlike Daryl, I shot my target with just 63 gr. FFg GOEX, same ball and patch, but different lube.  He used saliva and I, water soluble oil and water about 1:10.  The barrel is a Rice Lehigh profile, round bottomed rifling, and does it ever load easily.  I use a starter to intorduce the ball into the patch and bore, and then literally, two fingers (thumb and index) on the rod to push it to the charge.  Accuracy was fine, my hold not so much.  I found the rifle so light that it wouldn't settle down in the black.  Too, I had to file at least 1/16" off the top of the front blade to bring the hits up into the ten ring.  Now the sights are really low to the barrel, which is fine, but something I'm not used to.  A little more trouble with heat mirage than I'm used to.  Still great fun to shoot this lovely rifle, and an opportunity to clean it up good with TLC.
Here's my target:


(https://i.ibb.co/JqwFb9r/0-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dtwJ3Rk)
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: alacran on January 25, 2022, 04:10:44 PM
Glad to see you guys taking advantage of the balmy weather. Good shooting.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: D. Taylor Sapergia on January 28, 2022, 09:56:18 PM
Daryl and I gave this match another opportunity to shine the other day, but alas, neither of us produced a winning target.  I used my Rupp inspired rifle again, a .50 cal and I find the rifle just too light for good offhand shooting.  I have become spoiled by my Chambers' Virginia rifle at 10 pounds and I find anything lighter floats around the target too much for fine shooting.   Also, I have become corrupted by the double set trigger and the Rupp's simple trigger though crisp, is considerably more difficult to get the shot off when I want it.
Anyway, I took a few pictures which I now provide for your entertainment...


(https://i.ibb.co/8YnsV5x/0-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SfDypnm)

(https://i.ibb.co/fGd7b3P/0-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CsKFqjT)

(https://i.ibb.co/SfNkgdW/0-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PDx2y93)

(https://i.ibb.co/fx0bfdj/0-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VqBdRYf)
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: bob in the woods on January 29, 2022, 01:57:54 AM
I'm still planning on shooting this match, but minus 36 again tonight and minus 30 something tomorrow.  Not the best for target shooting !  Maybe Sunday .
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Daryl on January 29, 2022, 06:34:07 AM
Best wishes, Bob.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: alacran on January 29, 2022, 12:08:20 PM
Taylor, they may not be winning targets, but they are good.
Yes, it is more difficult shooting a single trigger than a set trigger. Specially if you get corrupted as you say by shooting a set trigger.
I have reverted back to single triggers. Have been shooting all my matches this last year with them. At least on long guns.
I remembered I used to shoot decent scores at 200 yards offhand,  in service rifle competition. The triggers had to be 4 1/2 lbs minimum.
As far as hunting rifles the single trigger in my opinion, is the best choice.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Nessmuck on January 30, 2022, 01:26:31 AM
Taylor…..some fine looking stuff !
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Daryl on January 30, 2022, 02:13:59 AM
So far, the winning target and the second place 49 3X were shot with simple (single) triggers, just say'n.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: alacran on January 31, 2022, 04:02:34 PM
(https://i.ibb.co/SdTPDM3/0131220559.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F0vKkyD)
Went out again yesterday with the smoothbore. Shot only this target at 25 yards. Played at 50 yards after that.
I figure I am at minute of Javelina to at least 50 yards. But the fun in Javelina hunting is getting close. Have only shot one further than 25 yards, and that was with a CF rifle. Most shots average 15 yards.
Of course, my targets are shot only for fun.
If no one posts a target today with a 50 2x, Daryl will be the January winner.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Daryl on January 31, 2022, 09:13:16 PM
45/50 is a really good target with a smoothbore. I'd say OK for Javelina for sure.
Are they good to eat?
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: bob in the woods on February 01, 2022, 02:15:07 AM
We had to drive to town today for some business, and arrived home at 4:00
My wife saw the target I had taped on cardboard and said " I thought you were going to shoot ? "
 "Why don't you go out back now ...have fun."  So off I went.  This target was shot at 25 yards, off hand in over the knee snow and minus 15 deg .   .54 flint rifle, C weight, 42 in Colerain barrel
simple pinned single trigger.  Standard type sights. It's my deer hunting rifle.   .535 ball, .018 linen patch, bear oil lube, 80 gr FFg    Wasn't steady enough on my feet and pulled the first shot.
The others are in the 10 and 9 rings.   Daryl wins !!     Congratulations . 
Looking forward to what we see for Feb
(https://i.ibb.co/vYnr4MK/OLYMPUS-DIGITAL-CAMERA.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bJ9y5G8)
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: snrub47 on February 01, 2022, 03:35:43 AM
Finally a day to go shoot. Almost to late for this month.
(https://i.ibb.co/qs91T83/20220131-144531.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Sn0vFg4)

online safety images (https://imgbb.com/)
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: bob in the woods on February 01, 2022, 05:58:07 AM
Finally a day to go shoot. Almost to late for this month.
(https://i.ibb.co/qs91T83/20220131-144531.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Sn0vFg4)

online safety images (https://imgbb.com/)
Wow.  Sorry SNRUB47..it was very naughty of me to presume that I would be the last one managing to get a target posted.  And, certainly not my place to call a winner !   I was just reacting to what was said in the previous post re Daryl's score.  Great shooting on your part  :)
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: alacran on February 01, 2022, 04:43:05 PM
A last-minute entry by snrub47, wins the January match, by what best as I can tell is .08 inches. I got calipers out, reading glasses, knife, a clean target, and Daryl's measurement of .278 outside the line, to come up for this determination.
Great shooting everyone!
Snrub is up to you to come up with a match for February.
Great shooting Daryl! By the way Javelina is very good. I like to cook the backstraps in bacon grease, and the rest I make into green chili con carne.
But the best part in my opinion is the liver. It is the most delicate liver I have ever tasted. It is our custom to have the liver and tenderloin cooked with onions for breakfast at camp, the morning after the kill.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Nessmuck on February 01, 2022, 05:04:39 PM
Some nice Shootn !
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Daryl on February 01, 2022, 09:12:41 PM
A last-minute entry by snrub47, wins the January match, by what best as I can tell is .08 inches. I got calipers out, reading glasses, knife, a clean target, and Daryl's measurement of .278 outside the line, to come up for this determination.
Great shooting everyone!
Snrub is up to you to come up with a match for February.
Great shooting Daryl! By the way Javelina is very good. I like to cook the backstraps in bacon grease, and the rest I make into green chili con carne.
But the best part in my opinion is the liver. It is the most delicate liver I have ever tasted. It is our custom to have the liver and tenderloin cooked with onions for breakfast at camp, the morning after the kill.

Well done, Snrub. Tight contest! congratulations. Had it been me, I was thinking of a repeat of this month's contest, just a suggestion if you haven't or can't decide on Fed. match.
I kinda thought small pig might be good eating, alacran.  Made my mouth water just reading your post. We usually have the heart for lunch, the next day with ungulates, sliced thinly and fried in bacon grease.  Moose and elk are bit tough, but very tasty.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: snrub47 on February 01, 2022, 10:59:54 PM
Daryl, that's a good idea....we all get another 'shoot' at the January target. Thanks for the suggestion.......
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Dphariss on February 02, 2022, 12:29:54 AM
Finally a day to go shoot. Almost to late for this month.
(https://i.ibb.co/qs91T83/20220131-144531.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Sn0vFg4)

online safety images (https://imgbb.com/)
Nice shooting.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: MuskratMike on February 02, 2022, 12:56:21 AM
Congratulations SNRUB47! That is some darn fine shooting. Says the rifle is a 36 caliber and you are using .360 round ball? How thin of a patch are you using to be able to get them down the tube?
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Daryl on February 02, 2022, 01:51:29 AM
Mike, I also used a .360 ball on one of my
36 targets at 50 yards bench last fall. I liked the way they shot and loaded. I used the same .021" Denim patch as with the .350" ball. They loaded easily with the rifle's 5/16" hickory rod.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: D. Taylor Sapergia on February 03, 2022, 01:02:57 AM
One of the great benefits of these postal matches, and particularly the commentary that follows, is the tremendous opportunity for us all to learn from each other, what works and what does not.  My observations, particularly with this last submission of excellent results, is the tight combination that the shooters use to get these results.  No thumb starting or the need to wipe between shots here.  When one wants to extract the best accuracy out of his equipment, it's wise to learn from these champion targets and contributors.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Daryl on February 03, 2022, 01:34:08 AM
Snrub47 - I just noticed the 55gr. 2F charge. Well, I used 2f in the .40 and .45, just to work up loads for it in case I couldn't get 3F. Now, I'm going to have to
test 2F in the .36 as well.  Tks. Obvously, it works.
Have you chronographed this load?
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Daryl on February 03, 2022, 01:35:35 AM
Finally a day to go shoot. Almost to late for this month.
(https://i.ibb.co/qs91T83/20220131-144531.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Sn0vFg4)

online safety images (https://imgbb.com/)

Snrub47 - I just noticed the 55gr. 2F charge. Well, I used 2f in the .40 and .45, just to work up loads for it in case I couldn't get 3F. Now, I'm going to have to
test 2F in the .36 as well.  Tks. Obvously, it works.
Title: Re: January Postal Match
Post by: Nessmuck on February 04, 2022, 03:05:53 AM
Finally a day to go shoot. Almost to late for this month.
(https://i.ibb.co/qs91T83/20220131-144531.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Sn0vFg4)

online safety images (https://imgbb.com/)

Snrub47 - I just noticed the 55gr. 2F charge. Well, I used 2f in the .40 and .45, just to work up loads for it in case I couldn't get 3F. Now, I'm going to have to
test 2F in the .36 as well.  Tks. Obvously, it works.


I might have missed it….was it a cap lock or Flintah ?