AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: HighUintas on February 16, 2022, 09:07:12 AM
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Hi All,
I am just starting my first build. It will be my first muzzleloader! I thought I'd document it here, and those who feel the need can offer advice and/or tear my craftsmanship or lack thereof to shreds ;)
It all started when I read The Big Sky, by A B Guthrie, Courage Undaunted by Stephen Ambrose, and saw one of Jim Bridgers Hawken rifles in the mountain man museum in Pinedale, WY. I am a lifelong hunter and grew up very close to St. Louis, but despite those two facts I for some reason knew very little about the Corps of Discovery and the fur trade shortly after booming in the west. I now live in Utah and the Uintas are my favorite mountain range I've spent time in. Come to find out, that NF is named after the owner of the RMFC who was from STL and had a Hawken made when he traveled west with his trappers! Well, now I need to get a muzzleloader, likely a Hawken, and pretend I'm a mountain man. So, I researched quite a bit and happened to find some threads here and on another forum detailing builds of Hawken rifles and I realized that I want to build one and I also want to have a rifle that one of Ashley's trapper's may have had, so of course I can't get a percussion Hawken. I found many threads and posts by Herb detailing his builds and how he has replicated a few of them so we'll, along with sharing his depth of knowledge on the Hawken brothers rifles. Then I found out he's in Utah! So, i contacted him and he agreed to help me out and show me some of his work. I had a marvelous time visiting with Herb, hearing all his stories and even listening to some of his tunes played on the guitar. Thanks, Herb, that made my day!
Well, he told me over the phone before I visited that he was going to make a Jim Beckwourth rifle. I remembered that I almost bought a book about him when I was at the museum in Pinedale and wished I would have. I looked up Jim Beckwourth's rifle and found it to be exactly what I want to hunt with! Well, maybe not exactly because that rifle is a serious club. So Herb helped me out with some of the details Of the rifle such as measurements and an outline.
I decided to scale it down a bit so that it's more functional for me while hunting and also wanted to do a flint version of it. So, I don't know if I'm calling this a scaled early beckwourth rifle, or if I'm just saying it's inspired by his. Either way I'm going to try to get as many of the details correct as my novice skillet allows.
I have a 58cal x1x36" colerain barrel and a plain maple blank, along with various parts that will need modification.
So far, I've got the breech plug fitted to the barrel, my design drawn on the blank and have the blank partially cut. I'm working with a handsaw and rasp, so it's slow going so far.
I'd post a few pictures but haven't figured out how without using that third party photo site.
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Is this what you’re building but in flint? Where would you date it? https://www.muzzleloadermagazine.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=14
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Is this what you’re building but in flint? Where would you date it? https://www.muzzleloadermagazine.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=14
Yes it is, except it will be scaled down, flint, and likely not have the wrist repair wrap. So, basically what it may have been like earlier in it's life.
As for a date... I don't know. I have nowhere near the knowledge many of the members here do. But, I would say 1820s. The stock shows evidence it was a flintlock, the rifle has some hallmark Hawken qualities such as the barrel design, front sight copper base, beaver tail cheek. But it is not stamped Hawken, so I'm guessing it was done by Jacob H and/or Lakenan prior to Beckwourth heading west in 1824/25.
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You are on the right track. Drawings on both paper and stock.
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I applaud your decision to use hand tools……for several reasons. Mistakes tend to happen slower ( and are thus less critical) in my experience, and the satisfaction you can get in doing the job this way is immeasurable. Work carefully and thoughtfully. ( if you are like me, by all means use a drill press though !)
Mikeyfirelock
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Hand tools rock, too soon? 8)
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Besides, you can always get the electric tools out if it gets too tough. Right Daniel. ;D
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Besides, you can always get the electric tools out if it gets too tough. Right Daniel. ;D
A man's gotta know his limitations!
~Dirty Harry 1973~
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Endeavor to Persevere- Chief Dan George
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Yes the plan was to only use a drill press in the whole process. I'd really like to do it with the same tools they would have used at the time to get the full experience, but I'm working with what I've got.
I almost gave up on the handsaw after doing the top of the barrel channel and asked my buddy if I could use his bandsaw, but decided to give it another shot. I then did the rest of the top and bottom of the buttsock to the curve. I laid out plenty of cut depth lines on the backside to make sure I was staying square, or at least not cutting too far in. After doing a couple more cuts, my confidence is back with the handsaw and it really didn't take all that long.
But the inside curves... Dang I don't know how I'm going to cut those out in a reasonable amount of time. Neither my surform or #50 rasp is very efficient for that. Maybe chisels?
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Cut depth lines and chisels will work on inside curves. Today I used the hand saw in shorter straight cuts along the inside curve then a rasp to finish.
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The bow saw, with it's narrow blade, will cut some inside curves - concave curve.
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"Stick around" Predator 1986: Arnold Schwarzenegger
Rob
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Most saw blades need sharpening. I sharpen mine using magnification. Depending on blade hardness I use find files or diamond files. Then sawing is a whole different experience. I use a frame saw where a regular rip saw won’t work. My rip hand saw is an aggressive beast.
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Endeavor to Persevere- Chief Dan George
We held a council and the declared war on the Union?? Did the Beckwourth rifle have that much drop in the stock?
Bob Roller
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(https://i.ibb.co/HHrwWHS/142083-F8-01-FA-47-B3-B4-CE-DD6-FAA376-FFF.png) (https://ibb.co/RDCrxDF)
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Quite a bit of drop! His LOP was around 14-14.5" (can't remember exactly) and the drop nearly 4" I think. I'll have to double check my notes later. The rifle is really interesting. I'm no expert, but in comparing it to available parts at TOW it seems to have design features similar to a few different regions
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I took over 100 measurements of the original rifle. The drop at heel from the top of the barrel was 4.1 inches. The length of pull was 14 inches to the front trigger. I was asked by Jeff Hengesbaugh, who owns the rifle, to make a bench copy for him, except in flintlock as it was originally made. The butt plate is riveted at the top. The trigger spur is riveted on. I tried to find available parts that would work with modification. HighUintas found a better trigger than I had selected. The triggers will need to be bent, but that is easy to do. HighUintas is doing a really good job on his copy of this rifle. He is already aware of and doing things it has taken me 150 to 200 builds to learn.
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I am sure you have inspired many builders Herb you have inspired me to name one. My interests have always been plains rifles, Hawken in particular starting back when I built my first from a kit in 1979 then when I started again building a flint parts set in 2019. I have poured over your posts on them and Taylor's Hawken Stuff posts. I am finishing my 3rd and 4th if I count the one from way back and have part set from Don Stith and some other assembled parts. Thanks for the detailed posts Herb I am grateful you made the information available to all of us.
Rob
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Cut depth lines and chisels will work on inside curves.
Just to add clarification for HighUintas, what Daniel is referring to here are called stop cuts and they are very useful in a number of applications. They allow you to drive the chisel towards the cut to relieve large pieces of wood without risking your stock. For areas such as the butt plate profile that incorporate complex curves it is generally useful to have a series of them close together.
Similarly, if you decided to saw out an area, you would still want to saw in relief cuts. A relief cut is the same as a stop cut but it relieves tension on the blade as scrap gets released from the stock.
I prefer Daniel's method for a butt plate profile, it's slower but eliminates the problem that can happen if your saw runs askew.
Your project is looking great so far!
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Not to dampen your enthusiasm, but we've discussed this rifle here before, and evidence suggests that it is not a Hawken:
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=58085.msg581585#msg581585
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=35529.msg341735#msg341735
I at least find the Beckwourth connection implausible, for what that is worth. Still a good looking gun and appropriate for the Fur Trade era (maybe!), I think.
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Cut depth lines and chisels will work on inside curves.
Just to add clarification for HighUintas, what Daniel is referring to here are called stop cuts and they are very useful in a number of applications. They allow you to drive the chisel towards the cut to relieve large pieces of wood without risking your stock. For areas such as the butt plate profile that incorporate complex curves it is generally useful to have a series of them close together.
Similarly, if you decided to saw out an area, you would still want to saw in relief cuts. A relief cut is the same as a stop cut but it relieves tension on the blade as scrap gets released from the stock.
I prefer Daniel's method for a butt plate profile, it's slower but eliminates the problem that can happen if your saw runs askew.
Your project is looking great so far!
Yes I think it describes this technique in the recreating the American Longrifle book I have. Make a series of crosscuts close together down to the depth/profile line and then chisel out, correct?
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Not to dampen your enthusiasm, but we've discussed this rifle here before, and evidence suggests that it is not a Hawken:
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=58085.msg581585#msg581585
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=35529.msg341735#msg341735
I at least find the Beckwourth connection implausible, for what that is worth. Still a good looking gun and appropriate for the Fur Trade era (maybe!), I think.
Not to worry. My enthusiasm will remain high! I don't have any doubt the rifle was owned by Jim Beckwourth. I think the evidence is clear there. As for it being built by Jake Hawken and/or Lakenan, yes it's hard to say for sure and yes it does bear a very close resemblance to the rifle from Booneville in that other thread. I wish the owner of that rifle would provide some information about the internals of the barrel and more details on the rest of the exterior.
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Made some progress. I took a break from cutting the profile because I wanted to get the barrel channel cut prior to making the forestock skinnier and weaker. So, I've been working on inletting the barrel over the weekend. I've got about 1/8" depth to go and I'm maybe 10-12 hours in to inletting? I don't know if that's slow or fast for just using chisels but it has greatly slowed down since I got the barrel to drop between the side flats of the channel.
I'm not entirely sure what I'd do different next time but I think I would mark out the width of the center bottom flat along the length of the top in addition to marking the width of the barrel. Stab in the sides of the barrel very close to true width. Then start cutting out the center area marked for the width of the bottom flat. Then start using inletting black to guide me in to the side flats.
What I did, was I stabbed in along the inside of my barrel width lines and then went down towards the stab line to relieve a bit along the lines. This left me with a lot of wood to remove to get the barrel flats to fit inside those lines. Next time, I'll cut them closer to width. Then I stabbed in along the barrel cross section lines at the front of the stock. Then took my 7/16" gouge and 1/4" straight chisel and started hogging out wood along the channel and got it shaped roughly like an octagon. Then I started using inletting black to get it all flat and even.
(https://i.ibb.co/G7qR9Sv/IMG-20220221-014333264.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Q94MkwF)
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Yes I think it describes this technique in the recreating the American Longrifle book I have. Make a series of crosscuts close together down to the depth/profile line and then chisel out, correct?
Yes, and save all of your scraps.
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Here is where I'm at now. I think I average about 2 hours a night, most nights of the week. I'm fairly certain I'm at least 35 hours in now from the point I started cutting the plank. Does it generally take people this long on a 36-in long barrel channel using only chisels? I ended up deciding to just chisel down to 0.030" from final depth on the bottom flat to speed it up, then cut more material connecting the side and bottom flat. I think I'll have to depend the side flat a good bit more though. That was a good decision. Now I'm back to using the hi spot blue. And I must say I'm not worried about being fast. I want it to be correct. I'm just concerned about being efficient. I feel like I haven't been efficient, for some reason.
Any how, I'm getting pretty close with no more than 1/16" left and I'm excited to move on to inletting the breech plug, and then cry when I have to figure out a drill solution for the 7/16" RR hole.
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Muzzleloader builder supply sells the drills you need for about 32$ for a 48" drill. I'm about to embark on a ramrod channel myself and my barrel is... 48".
Or you can make your own or get one from harbor freight! I look forward to your update. good luck.
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I bought mine from MLBS too they are good drills.
Rob
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It's been said before but ramrod drills generally go where they're pointed. Be as precise as you can on the ramrod groove cuz that guides everything else.
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Muzzleloader builder supply sells the drills you need for about 32$ for a 48" drill. I'm about to embark on a ramrod channel myself and my barrel is... 48".
Or you can make your own or get one from harbor freight! I look forward to your update. good luck.
Thank you for the prompt in looking there again! I had looked at MBS and TOTW quite a few times but they have been out of stock on that size for awhile. I had planned to try to file a cutting edge and flute on a steel rod myself and I'm glad I don't have to do that now.
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I had planned to try to file a cutting edge and flute on a steel rod myself and I'm glad I don't have to do that now.
Oof, that's unlikely to work because, unless you really want to file away, your flutes won't have enough space for chip build up and the pressure could cause the tip to wander or stock to crack at the bottom of the barrel inlet.
I'm all for the "do it yourself" school of thinking but I'd rather chuck 30 bucks for a drill than spend hours to file a steel rod into a homemade drill shaped object ;D
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I agree, David. That is why I bought one from MBS today! I had only planned to make one if there was a continual out of stock at the suppliers. I hadn't planned to file the whole flute, but cut the majority of the flute with a Dremel and/or angle grinder and then finish it and the tip with a file, then harden. It probably would have taken me 8 hours to produce something I felt confident in using, if ever.
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I am almost there. Maybe a 1/64th to go?
My barrel is slightly bent downward on both ends (I started the recent bent barrel thread) and decided to just inlet and see how it shoots. I now have good contact throughout the channel.
I have a question about the breech surface of the channel. I'm not sure what I did when cutting that portion in, but it appears the grain in the upper 1/4 is all smashed looking. It seems to be too deep to by able to set the barrel channel back far enough to get it all cut out. Well, that certainly doesn't look strong so I'm wondering if I need to bed that portion. Any ideas on that?
I was hoping not to use bedding compound in the channel but I think I might end up doing so. I need to strengthen that breech area and I do have a couple of small gaps that are just barely big enough to slip a sheet of paper into. I had my color transfer too heavy on the barrel at first and it really built up on the sidewalls of the channel. I scraped it out and loosened up my tight fit.
I know I could glue in strips of wood, but I don't want to go that route. If I dont use bedding for the channel to snug up the couple of gaps, is there any period correct material I could use, like a mastic or something?
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This looks normal to me. I see an imprint of the whole breech. If the side gaps are an issue, your best bets are to bed it or fix side gaps with glued in pieces of wood correctly oriented for grain. I’ve not seen period fixes that use a compound.
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I have only built a few rifles but with the exception of the very first rifle I built back in 79-80 I have used bedding compound in all my builds in the breech area. I think it adds strength to a weak area the rifles I purchased from Brant Selb (who builds Hawken rifles) all use bedding compound in the breech area. Once the stock is finished you can't see it. Using wood strips as Rich says works pretty well to take up gaps I have done that too.
Rob
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Thanks! I'm glad that breech area grain looks normal and I didn't go to trying to cut it out.
I had sort of considered using bedding in the breech anyway to strengthen and maybe get a little better accuracy but wasn't sure I would. I might just get it to the point of being in the white and see how it shoots before bedding it.
The slight gaps are the biggest bummer. I spent so much time trying to make the perfect barrel channel and then I went and screwed it up! Oh well, there's bound to be some mishaps on my first one.
How big does the gap need to be to be considered in need of repair for functional reasons if it is not visually noticeable?
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I am sure other with more experience will add a comment but for me if my eye is drawn to it I fix it. One I am working on now the barrel and breech were inletting on down nicely when I finally got both seated there is a slight gap at one side of the breech. I measured it with with shims and it is approximately 0.015", I will not do anything with it until I get ready to do the final prep to finish the stock but I don't think it is much to worry about.
The barrel channel of your stock looks good you did a good job of it. The end grain at the breech looks good too but the way the grain looks it looks like you need to sharpen your tool.
Rob
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Thank you. Yes I think my chisel I used was a bit dull when I first started.
I got to doing some searching and found that some have used wetting the wood, some people adding heat, and then clamping or wrapping the stock while the barrel is in, with good success. Maybe I will try this after I get it shaped.
And I agree on needing to fix it if I can see the gaps. I guess I am just wondering if it matters if the barrel is not in their snugly as long as he can't see gaps.
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From the look of where the gap on your stock is where the tang will be if that is right I wouldn't worry about it.
Rob
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Oh, Maybe I have not been very clear and explaining where my Gap is. I intentionally quit cutting on the breech area once I got contact on both sides in the bottom knowing that the plug bolster and tank would go through the upper portion where there's no contact yet.
I have a couple of gaps on the side flats of the channel. One is unsightly and was a slip with a scraper and will be filled, likely with a wood sliver. There is one on one side near the muzzle that is several inches long and almost noticeable, and the other is on the side of the channel back by the breach and I'm not sure if that will be visible after I have the excess wood removed.
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Congrats on taking on a project of this magnitude.
Before drilling your ram rod hole, I'd watch a video recently posted by Bill Raby on Rumble. He's building a Maryland style rifle and one of his more recent videos shows how he drilled the ram rod hole. He did use a dedicated ram rod drill to do it and he gives some good tips for keeping the hole straight.
On my last build (and first from a plank) I used a Harbor Freight drill bit and my results weren't nearly as good as his.
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Congrats on taking on a project of this magnitude.
Before drilling your ram rod hole, I'd watch a video recently posted by Bill Raby on Rumble. He's building a Maryland style rifle and one of his more recent videos shows how he drilled the ram rod hole. He did use a dedicated ram rod drill to do it and he gives some good tips for keeping the hole straight.
On my last build (and first from a plank) I used a Harbor Freight drill bit and my results weren't nearly as good as his.
I've watched that video twice! 😄 I ended up getting my ramrod drill from MBS . My primary concern is getting the channel nice and straight and the exact depth that I want it along its whole length so that my drill bit will go where I want it to. I plan to make those wooden block guides as he did in his video. It looks like it would work really well.
Now to decide on what to do with my barrel channel gaps that I've been agonizing over. My wife says to just go ahead and bed the whole length and I'll be able to avoid the same mistakes on the next one and not use any bedding. She is smarter than me and her advice to me is generally pretty good
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After you get the forearm slimmed down,dampen the sides where you have a gap and wrap surgical tubing around it and let it dry for a week.
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After you get the forearm slimmed down,dampen the sides where you have a gap and wrap surgical tubing around it and let it dry for a week.
Slimmed down as in close to finished, or slimmed down as in having the bulk cut off but still square sided?
Is there anything that can go wrong/cause damage with this method?
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Close to finished. Put the barrel in and the ramrod, don’t go crazy tight. Let the stretch of the tubing do the work.
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Close to finished. Put the barrel in and the ramrod, don’t go crazy tight. Let the stretch of the tubing do the work.
Thank you. Will this work close to the breech on the side plate side where the top line of the stock slopes down to the top of the barrel channel? I've got some nice gaps on the sides in that first inch from the breech.
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The thicker the wood the less likely it will help, would be my guess. You could glue some patches in that area close to the breech. I would use bedding as a last resort.
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I'm calling it good on the barrel inlet. After shaving off the color in the bottom of the channel and attempting to clean the side flats, it will be done and I'll start on the breech.
(https://i.ibb.co/1rDKqh0/IMG-20220329-232935674.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dPd621f)
Tonight I got the breech plug bolster/tang corner curve cut with a hacksaw to a sharp 90 angle and filed smooth. I also then filed some draft along the length of the tang and the bolster. You can see the obvious draft on the bolster. It's a good amount, but I don't think I overdid it.
I must say I really enjoy file work. Feeling that sharp file glide across the the metal has a very satisfying quality.
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Tomorrow, I will cut the tang, shape the end, and bend it to shape. Before bending, I'll have to review my drawing. There was something just not quite right looking about the lock panel wrist transition area
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I made some more progress. I've got the tang shaped, bent, and inletted.
Line from the top of the breach down to the wrist to give it a more immediate curve downward. A profile now looks correct in that area, where it didn't before.
I cut the Tang to length, having it terminate just before the nose of the comb. This makes it about 5.75 in Long. That's longer than the beckwourth rifle, but is is hidden behind a wrist wrap and I want to make my wrist as strong as possible; I also plan to bolt through the end of the Tang into the trigger plate.
I then shaped the end of the Tang to round by scribing a circular line with a compass meeting the outer edges of the tang. I then filed it round using my scribe line as a guide. I believe the Beckwourth rifles Tang is flat at the end, but once again that one is hidden under a wrist wrap and I wanted this one to be round.
I bent the tank cold using what seems to be the most common method, putting the Tang into my vise and then using the barrel as a handle to bend it. I did quite a few series of bend and check alignment to get it pretty close to my line.
(https://i.ibb.co/w7X0XqG/IMG-20220331-004237474.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pQ808TV)
Then inletted the tang. I sat the breach bolster on top of the stock on the center line with the muzzle and down in the channel. I marked with a sharp pencil around the edges of the bolster, stabbed in just inside the line, and started removing wood. Once I got pretty close to the point of having the Tang rest on top of the stock, I used some color transfer to even up the sides of my mortise and ensure that it was centered with the barrel channel. Once the Tang was resting on the stock, I used a sharp pencil to outline the tang and then stabbed in along the insides of those lines and started removing that wood until I was close to final depth. Then started using color transfer on the bottom of the barrel near the breach and the bottom of the tang and the breech area and breech bolster area. Once I got close I started checking the contact between the barrel breach and rear surface of the breach plug bolster try to keep that contact pretty even across the back.
I'm now at final depth as indicated by the contact between the barrel and the barrel channel. There is no contact that I can see at the bottom of the reach plug bolster and the very forward part of the Tang mortise because I realized I was tapping on my barrel too hard with my mallet and it was allowing the tang and barrel to bend just enough to where I would get false contact and those two points and I ended up removing too much material. But, I have good contact everywhere else. And I think my contact is pretty good between my breach and the recoiling surface of the stock.
Do you see any reason to continue going to get better contact anywhere?
Please ignore the blue. That stuff isn't coming off, unfortunately.
(https://i.ibb.co/bNz4q5L/IMG-20220412-001412695.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wpMn3hC)
(https://i.ibb.co/tHLLXYz/IMG-20220412-001511859.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dfmmgkt)
(https://i.ibb.co/bb1m0Kx/IMG-20220412-001626357.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WVn5h2Q)
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As some have stated
Be careful with whatever guides the RR drill. On straight barrels it need to be parallel with the barrel. If parallel with the taper of a tapered barrel then the drill will run low.
In my experience the only RR drills that actually run where they are pointed are the gun drill type. The others, not so much. If you use a common twist drill that is easily flexed and cuts on the sides or a spade type it will at some point cause “issues”. These designes are not good for deep holes. There is a reason the gundrill is used to drill gun barrels.
I clamp the drill in the RR groove with grooved wood blocks.
Only drill about 1/2-3/4” then clear the chips.
(https://i.ibb.co/jHrT30m/BBAAA6-EC-9-A95-4-D9-F-8-B5-B-69-ED7646-EAFE.jpg) (https://ibb.co/qxrdmqK)
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The Beckwourth rifle looks like a Tennessee or Kentucky “bear rifle” to me. Though it could have been made in Missouri. Its not a Hawken. Both the Hawken brothers were very well trained and experienced by the time Jake arrived in St Louis. Both were from a gunsmithing family and both had worked at Harpers Ferry. They knew how to forge weld and braze. And it most likely was flint and the lock was simply replaced when the drum was installed. And either it was really well cared for or it as not shot a lot as a percussion. The early caps were really hard on metal parts and there is little cap erosion on or around the drum. They could eat the iron away without even any apparent rusting.
A great many such rifles as well as typical Kentuckys of all eras went west. Some were large enough caliber, some were not. And the Hawken brothers, if I am properly informed, did not call them Plains rifles. They were “mountain rifles”. “Plains rifle” nomenclature is, IMO, a modern construct.
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HU,
From the profile picture of your stock it looks like you haven't cut the stock to the profile line on your stock. On the last picture it looks like you cut to the profile line and seated the tang/barrel in place. It looks good from what I see.
Rob
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The Beckwourth rifle looks like a Tennessee or Kentucky “bear rifle” to me. Though it could have been made in Missouri. Its not a Hawken. Both the Hawken brothers were very well trained and experienced by the time Jake arrived in St Louis. Both were from a gunsmithing family and both had worked at Harpers Ferry. They knew how to forge weld and braze. And it most likely was flint and the lock was simply replaced when the drum was installed. And either it was really well cared for or it as not shot a lot as a percussion. The early caps were really hard on metal parts and there is little cap erosion on or around the drum. They could eat the iron away without even any apparent rusting.
A great many such rifles as well as typical Kentuckys of all eras went west. Some were large enough caliber, some were not. And the Hawken brothers, if I am properly informed, did not call them Plains rifles. They were “mountain rifles”. “Plains rifle” nomenclature is, IMO, a modern construct.
Thanks for the note on the RR drill! I recently bought a drill from MBS and it is a brad point drill with spiral flutes. I've heard I should work so long as it get the channel pointed straight and parallel and have good control such as the wood blocks. I'll be making some wood blocks as a guide and be sure to clear chips after 1/2" ish of drilling :)
I agree on it very likely not being Hawken built after more research. Even if it was built in their earliest years of being in STL, I don't think the quality matches what they were capable of.
I am also now dubious on it's authenticity of being Beckwourth's rifle after receiving some information regarding that. I don't think it's my place to divulge that information here though. I'm leaning towards either Missouri built or built by someone in the southern mountains.
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HU,
From the profile picture of your stock it looks like you haven't cut the stock to the profile line on your stock. On the last picture it looks like you cut to the profile line and seated the tang/barrel in place. It looks good from what I see.
Rob
Yes I forgot to mention that I cut the wrist profile down to my line prior to inletting the tang.
Thanks!
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Dphariss,
I think you are right about the Plains rifle handle. Most of the rifles I have or are currently building are Hawken component parts sets but when I build them I call them "plains rifles" with Hawken rifle features since I am not doing a bench copy. Don Stith told me the light caliber rifles the Hawken's built for locals around St Louis he called a St Louis Plains rifle". But I haven't seen that used in anything from that period but I do not claim to be any kind of expert. I have studied Hawken rifles though through the years and I was fortunate enough to have handled a couple of original rifles back in the 1980's wish I could take a look at them now. To me the Beckwourth rifle doesn't seem to be Hawken built either but I have only seen the details of the rifle in pictures. But being a rifle of the period I think it is worth study even if it did not belong to Beckwourth and certainly shouldn't diminish HU's effort to recreate a reasonable copy.
Rob
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Dphariss,
I think you are right about the Plains rifle handle. Most of the rifles I have or are currently building are Hawken component parts sets but when I build them I call them "plains rifles" with Hawken rifle features since I am not doing a bench copy. Don Stith told me the light caliber rifles the Hawken's built for locals around St Louis he called a St Louis Plains rifle". But I haven't seen that used in anything from that period but I do not claim to be any kind of expert. I have studied Hawken rifles though through the years and I was fortunate enough to have handled a couple of original rifles back in the 1980's wish I could take a look at them now. To me the Beckwourth rifle doesn't seem to be Hawken built either but I have only seen the details of the rifle in pictures. But being a rifle of the period I think it is worth study even if it did not belong to Beckwourth and certainly shouldn't diminish HU's effort to recreate a reasonable copy.
Rob
Since the local market rifles were far different than the Mountain Rifles (but still better quality than the run of the mill eastern rifle of the time) I think John Baird was right in calling them “Squirrel Rifles”. I have been fortunate in the last few years of being able to examine a early-mid 1830s J&S even psrtly disassemble it. Then we got to closely examine several others at the Cody Firearms Museum. Including another J&S from the early 1830s, a heavy barreled Kentucky S Hawken and a FS S Hawken Mountain Rifle and a late S Hawken Mountain rifle half stock. The FS brass mounted long heavy Kentucky and the FS Mountain rifle were obviously stocked by the same man. And the J&S we got to pull the lock and barrel from was, I am sure, stocked by the same man as the early J&S in Cody that was owned by Archie Peterson when Baird featured it in his first book. Small details…
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Back to the RR drill. All my drills are home made with twist drills. I clear chips ever quarter inch of less. If you feel the slightest bind, thats when it could begin to wander. I have never had a bit come out of the wood. All went as pointed. Good luck
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I'm working on getting the RR channel cut. This is a 7/16" rod and channel and I've been using my 7/16" gouge. I'm having a really hard time getting deep enough with this gouge due to the shape of the upper edges. It also doesn't actually cut quite as wide as 7/16", so I have to run along each side layout line independently to get full width. So I've been thinking of ways to remove wood quickly while keeping it straight.
I happen to have a piece of 7/16" steel, mild steel I'm fairly certain. I was thinking I would first cut along my layout lines full length to get the channel started and be able to lay the rod in. Then I'd file the end of the rod square and use the rod as a scraper.
Thoughts?
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I’ve done that and it works well to get the channel straight and even. You must be careful to maintain the proper course, both vertically and laterally. Layout is critical. The channel must follow the bore line and not deviate laterally. You must also make sure the channel will guide the ramrod drill at the proper depth ( or path if tapered or swamped.). On swamped barrels I have measured the barrel and calculated the ramrod channel depth ever several inches frim the top flat, and marked the stock at those points. I use calipers to check as I cut the ramrod channel to make sure I’m on course.
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I’ve done that and it works well to get the channel straight and even. You must be careful to maintain the proper course, both vertically and laterally. Layout is critical. The channel must follow the bore line and not deviate laterally. You must also make sure the channel will guide the ramrod drill at the proper depth ( or path if tapered or swamped.). On swamped barrels I have measured the barrel and calculated the ramrod channel depth ever several inches frim the top flat, and marked the stock at those points. I use calipers to check as I cut the ramrod channel to make sure I’m on course.
I tested it out a bit and it works pretty well, but I can't push the rod keeping it laid down in the channel because it's just a straight rod and doesn't have a handle. I also noticed that it doesn't cut much if I don't have it at a fairly steep angle, say maybe 20° or so and that prevents the rest of the rod from guiding The cutting direction.
When you use this method, did you angle the rod up so that you could get it to cut, or did you bend the end of the rod to make a handle and be able to keep the rest of the rod down in the channel while it cuts?
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Alright! I made some progress.
Cut the rest of the profile, leaving the butt and width of the forearm in place. Used a Shinto and surform to plane and square the bottom surfaces after handsawing. Then cut the RR channel with a 7/16" gouge, a 7/16" rod as a scraper, and some sandpaper wrapped on a dowel.
(https://i.ibb.co/t4r7Xmz/IMG-20220421-011532959.jpg) (https://ibb.co/L87L5kr)
(https://i.ibb.co/SJF7f9Q/IMG-20220421-011548741.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LvVhN2Q)
(https://i.ibb.co/bLfz7yx/IMG-20220421-011341468.jpg) (https://ibb.co/P4SwtbR)
(https://i.ibb.co/1qdCBQJ/IMG-20220421-011324239.jpg) (https://ibb.co/J7yY8tF)
I've got the RR hole drilled. Hopefully, I don't need to plug and redrill it. I measured the depth near the breech and it drifted down towards the belly maybe 1/16" or so. Unfortunately, I cut nearly passed my profile line there, so my drill drifting down only leaves me with about 0.80-0.100" of wood between the hole and belly.
Is that enough wood there?
Other than that, it went smoothly. I had just a touch of drift towards the lock side but not much.
I made my wooden guide blocks and made sure they had contact with the drill rod but didn't put too much pressure on it. I used my BP 45-90 bullet lube (crisco, beeswax, lanolin) for the drill tip and it seemed to ease cutting. I think I had the drift towards the belly because I'm I didn't get the brad point on the drill in the right spot when I started. I didn't know it at the time, but that's my guess. Or my RR channel wasn't as level as I thought!
Either way, should I plug and redrill or should that really thin belly be strong enough?
(https://i.ibb.co/4J6Zrvt/IMG-20220422-233641471.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZNn6D4X)
(https://i.ibb.co/17SRNRJ/IMG-20220422-233628941.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Nt4WqWn)
(https://i.ibb.co/SDkjNBH/IMG-20220422-233559876.jpg) (https://ibb.co/j9CNhDq)
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I think you will be fine with that much wood. Its great to see someone documenting a first build. Everything is looking great so far. Keep at it and have fun with it!
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Thanks, Bill! Your videos have been a huge help :)
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These photos will make a great and succinct answer to future questions about drilling a ramrod hole. That looks like a good setup!
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You’re doin’ good ……we are all proud of you! Keep it up, and remember all the things you’ve learned on this one….for the next 20 or 30 rifles you will be building.
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Thank you! I have learned a lot and I'm really enjoying it. There are some world class builders here and the information everyone shares is invaluable. Has been a huge help. Hopefully, I'll be able to start on another one shortly after I finish this one.
I've got my forestock and lock area thinned and squared close to finish width and I'm now working over my lock before inletting it. I'm not sure what I am doing wrong or missing, but trying to get the lock plate flat and of uniform finish is frustrating . I'll be happy to get it figured out
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Flat how? The front face only needs to be flat and we'll polished near moving surfaces but much of the inside of the plate needs to be both. Do you have a granite block gauged flat or a piece of plate glass? You can place sandpaper on plate glass and use that to sand the lock plate flat, it's how you would restore the sole of a handplane.
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Flat how? The front face only needs to be flat and we'll polished near moving surfaces but much of the inside of the plate needs to be both. Do you have a granite block gauged flat or a piece of plate glass? You can place sandpaper on plate glass and use that to sand the lock plate flat, it's how you would restore the sole of a handplane.
I was only referring to the external surface of the lock plate. I was using my mill file to flatten it to remove the dips in the as cast surface, which is hard to do with a pan that isn't removable, and I kept getting deep scratches no matter how often I card my file. But I now realize it doesn't need to be completely flat, so I've moved on to wet/dry paper on a block and it's looking good 👍
I've not checked the inner surface for flatness or parts rubbing on the plate yet. I'm hoping/expecting Chambers took care of that for me
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Ha, never trust a lock you haven't turned yourself unless you explicitly paid for it!
The external isn't too important beyond appearance in most spots. Check out the recent guide that Rich Pierce posted in the last couple days, sounds perfect for you.
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=47002.0;topicseen
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Yes I dug that one up after I started on my lock plate and asked about my issue there. I do plan to check the inner plate flatness and potential for rubbing but haven't done so yet
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I've finally got my lock about 95% done and ready to inlet. All I have left that I feel is necessary is to polish the cock screw head and flint screw head, fix the cock screw slot that I marred up, probably blue the lock, and polish a few bearing surfaces and knock a burr off the tumbler notch. And fix the frizzen pan fit.
I did the whole thing with the below supplies.
8" flat mill
A flat straight bastard cut needle file
Half round tapered bastard needle file
A popsicle stick and a smaller craft stick
80grit, 180grit, 280grit, and 400grit wet/dry
(https://i.ibb.co/HTtwjTz/IMG-20220519-004822092.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F45ZF4w)
I had a goof or two. There was a void inside the top of the cock that's behind the flint. I had my thick leather padded jaws a tad to tight and it dented it!! I was very surprised. I also couldn't get the slight dip and surface finish out of a spot just low/left of the pan. It's hard to see in pictures but very noticeable in person. I can't seem to get the 400gr finish even on all the surfaces. Some are more polished than others. I couldn't get some minor scratches out of a few areas.
It's a late ketland lock and I filed the teet off the rear of the lock plate. I also filed off the mini teet on the frizzen spring finally.
I put it back together and it still sparks well! Overall, I'm pleased with how it turned out. It took me a long long time.
One thing that bothers me is it seems like the frizzen fit is really poor. There's not a noticeable gap on the external side, but there's a large gap on the pan fence side and internal side closest to the fence. Also, the whole frizzen seems to be shifted towards the fence and the screw placement is very off center. It bothers me more and is more noticeable now that it's polished. I'll see if I can get the gap eliminated between the frizzen and pan and see if I can deal with the look of the off center screw :)
Now back to inletting!!
(https://i.ibb.co/r6X2wLx/IMG-20220519-003401160.jpg) (https://ibb.co/R0JTDM3)
(https://i.ibb.co/31Mn4nt/IMG-20220519-003617656.jpg) (https://ibb.co/v1QSVS2)
(https://i.ibb.co/FXZP6X6/IMG-20220519-003704662.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NrD4xrx)
(https://i.ibb.co/JFc5Brw/IMG-20220519-003836073.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7NS2Yrd)
(https://i.ibb.co/r3smTb7/IMG-20220519-003944862.jpg) (https://ibb.co/w7sR3J0)
(https://i.ibb.co/0MT2Yz2/IMG-20220519-004145776.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pzcw4kw)
(https://i.ibb.co/Js0grnn/IMG-20220519-004254407.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hmhw2ss)
(https://i.ibb.co/bNs37KT/IMG-20220519-004324302.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6DHZNWz)
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I feel like I'm going to need to do something about that frizzen fit, but I'm not sure. The bottom of the pan cover has a very deep depression in the center that extends out to the edge on the fence side. So, other than the gap you can see in the photo from the internal side of the lock, there is also a very good size gap around the center of the pan on the fence side. I'm afraid if I file the bottom of the frizzen pan cover completely flat, it's going to screw up the angles too much and I'll have a mess. The other option is just filing down the high spots on the pan surround until I close up the gaps, but I think that would take absolutely forever and then leave me with a very unflat pan surround surface and cause problems when this frizzen eventually wears out and needs to be replaced.
Even if I successfully get the gaps closed without screwing anything up, is there an issue with the frizzen being shift so much towards the fence and the very uncentered pivot screw?
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I've got my lock inlet. Definitely not as good as some I've seen, but not bad for my limited number of chisels. Now on to drilling and tapping the lock bolt hole, installing barrel tenons, and drilling to pin.
I had a tiny bit of break through into the bottom of the barrel channel in the upper corner of the mainspring area due to not having my chisel sharp enough and getting a bit of tear out going against the grain there. I think I might glue in a sliver of wood there even though it might not be necessary and then soak the area with super glue to solidify it.
I also drilled the hole for the tumbler and sear screw a tad too deep, so I may fill in those with a dab of accraglas gel or other epoxy. If I get really motivated, I might get some appropriately sized dowels and cut thin disks to glue in the bottom and reinlet if needed.
(https://i.ibb.co/wQg3x7X/IMG-20220604-102545839.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NNCQHrP)
(https://i.ibb.co/MRBdp9H/IMG-20220604-010509026.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SKfS0Jg)
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(https://i.ibb.co/MRBdp9H/IMG-20220604-010509026.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SKfS0Jg)
Woah, that picture initially looked like the inlet was protruding out and not going into the wood. Took over a minute for my brain to flip it around.
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I have a very hard time getting good pictures in my garage with the lighting positioned as it is!
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More updates.
I posted this in another thread for advice but will put it here just to keep this thread consistent.
I drilled the lock bolt hole very crooked and it exited the off side too high. I decided to patch the holes and drill again. I have an extra lock bolt so I cut some of the threads off, put that piece in the hole with extra sticking out on both sides, and swaged it in with my shop press and files it down. It's nearly invisible.
Then I glued a piece of snug fitting dowel into the hole in the stock, cut out a slightly larger diameter plug of maple from the piece that came off the side plate side of the stock, drilled the dowel out a bit on that side, stained the interior hole surface and plug mating surface, then glued the plug in.
Old hole
(https://i.ibb.co/86nLqJJ/IMG-20220606-021416975.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BqH5bmm)
Fixed lock plate. Needs polishing again
(https://i.ibb.co/ZdDBFGQ/IMG-20220607-002453477-HDR.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8MZrfNy)
$#@* looking dowel patch
(https://i.ibb.co/d2HQS3x/IMG-20220607-231412724-HDR.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WyRcQdj)
Then I drilled the holes again. This time, using my drill press. You can see the new plug. I believe the grain and color matches. The freshly cut plug hasn't darkened yet.
(https://i.ibb.co/Jrwy8WD/IMG-20220608-011147451.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RQkBtGR)
I cut my first dovetails ever. I used a hacksaw and a slim 6" file with one side ground smooth. The first one was horrible and I had to peen down the edges to hold the lug. The second one was better but still ended up having to peen the edges down. The third one is a snug fit and is just ok. I'll do much better when I do my sights!!
First
(https://i.ibb.co/MnLKmFZ/IMG-20220615-192842615.jpg) (https://ibb.co/p2pNSYb)
Second
(https://i.ibb.co/KLTrqv3/IMG-20220615-192852664.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4YhVTr5)
Third
(https://i.ibb.co/yqrLrmx/IMG-20220615-192925533.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dDRnRsH)
I am now making barrels keys from 1/16th sheet. I cut a 0.270 x 1.75" strip, filed down the edge to get the width to 0.250 and get the edge flat. I then heated the end to red hot and put in my voice very snugly with about 1/8-3/16" stuck above the jaws. Then forged the sheet down to form a head. This took multiple heatings and repositioning in the jaws. Then I filed the head into a suitable shape. I'll finally polish these later.
Sawing strips
(https://i.ibb.co/mccmn2F/IMG-20220614-234712595.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9rrJx13)
Forging it. Mostly when in the vice it wasn't hot enough due to the vice being a heat sink. So I had to pull it out and anneal it then forge some more.
(https://i.ibb.co/Sy3JbBd/IMG-20220615-231644122.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tKJ3gDx)
Right side is the lower foreend key, two on left on upper foreend. One more to file.
(https://i.ibb.co/3Wdn4T9/IMG-20220615-193057027.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ct3jkyS)
Then on to drilling the stock and tenons, which are not slotted yet and very narrow... Only a 0.420 wide tab. That will be nerve wracking.
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HU,
Your project is coming along nicely. Drilling for the tenons and getting them to fit right is one of the hardest things for me to do. I hate fitting the breech and tapering ramrods but about the only part of building a rifle I approach with some apprehension is drilling and fitting tenons. For me it seems even with all the layout and measuring done and checked twice (or many more times) I always seem to create a problem. I'd much rather cut and fit dovetailed lugs. Good luck with the job I like watching your project proceed.
Rob
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Here's an update on my progress. Since making the keys, I've done the following:
Drilled lugs for keys and inletted them. I found out that when using the heated key fitting technique, temperature is really important! For me, I found it worked the best and didn't burn too much wood when I heated the key to just under glowing or to when it barely hits a dull red. The first one I did ended up being a touch loose, so I had to bend the lug loop a bit to snug it up.
Inletted and installed trigger. Ignore the goofy bend on the front trigger! I need to finish cutting that off and filing it. Since I'm using the Davis dst6, my front trigger bar was too short and I had to take up too much trigger before contacting the sear. I cut off a piece of an old flat needle file, ground it down and polished it, then soldered it to the top of the existing front trigger bar. I now only have a tiny bit of playing the front trigger. The front unset pull is about 3.5lbs. higher than I want, so I may work a little on that. Trigger is fully functional and needs some finishing work to pretty it up.
I shaped the top of the wrist a bit more, giving it some curve and removing the hump on the top right behind the breech. Then filed down the tang a lot more... It's tapered to only about 3/32" at the rear. I think I may have worn out that file.
Drilled and threaded the tang bolts with a homemade quick and dirty point to point jig on my drill press. That operation was very stressful. Trying to balance the gun with the left hand while operating the press with the right was tough. I tried to get the gun stabilized with blocks so that I didn't have to hold the weight, but that didn't work as well as just holding it. Because my press is a POS, my front top hole is a bit off center even with a heavy center punch. The quill is very loose on this thing.
Now to countersink those holes, cut off the extra thread length, finish front trigger, and then I'll inlet the RR pipes and installing the butt plate. I sadly will not be making my own BP for this gun.
I think the shape of the wrist is much more pleasing to look at now.
(https://i.ibb.co/Vxm0K9P/IMG-20220619-133858486.jpg) (https://ibb.co/42dwQt5)
(https://i.ibb.co/vJnf4wj/IMG-20220619-133903742.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hKzrF7m)
(https://i.ibb.co/X3fwjxf/IMG-20220716-164423990.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KLc1bxc)
(https://i.ibb.co/SwCMMmB/IMG-20220718-002710257.jpg) (https://ibb.co/chnZZ8Q)
(https://i.ibb.co/KmzjT52/IMG-20220718-002805804.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wYrN5dS)
(https://i.ibb.co/HNHK37N/IMG-20220718-002731696.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jVr8shV)
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Making more progress, albeit slowly due to July's vacations and getting ready for elk archery season.
I've got the buttplate installed, with only one minor gap that should disappear with swelling when I stain it and if not then it will be filled with wax and be invisible. It's on the cheek side in the upper corner and barely visible in the picture. I've got it screwed in with the countersinks done and screws filed down. I apparently am not capable of drilling a centered or square hole, no matter how careful I am! My screws are slightly off center on the buttplate and on the barrel tang. The buttplate screws arent bad enough to fix... it's not noticeable unless you really examine it. The barrel tang screws are another story. It looks like garbage and I'll have my kid weld up the holes later this year when he starts his welding class and then I'll redrill them, hopefully centered next time. I've got an early start on shaping the butt and I'll be working on that and the wrist for the next week.
My desire to make my own 2 piece buttplate will have to wait. That will be a winter or next year project when I have more time to devote to figuring out how to do it with my limited set of tools and skills.
I chose to go with the early Hawken buttplate from TOTW because it's so thin and looks much more like a 2 piece than cast plate. I also like that it's fairly wide for a curved plate and I like the long toe on it.
I installed the buttplate with the toe being pitched out to the lock side more than the heel, so the buttplates vertical centerline is pitched slightly counterclockwise in relation to the barrel's top flat. This was a mistake at first because my toe centerline was apparently not straight and I realized it partway in to installing it. But I removed the bulk of the wood on the butt stock so I could shoulder it comfortably and taped the buttplate on in that position with the toe out. It is mighty comfortable that way! It allows me to put the bulk of the buttplate on my shoulder and have the toe under my armpit. It should shoulder very very well when I get the shaping done.
(https://i.ibb.co/syTJ2Y2/IMG-20220811-004943246.jpg) (https://ibb.co/723NXmX)
(https://i.ibb.co/3mHdyP5/IMG-20220811-005129639.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jkFfvj9)
(https://i.ibb.co/CnpbzS1/IMG-20220811-005156882.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9qmbNd8)
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Update.
Buttplate done, thimbles in, all of stock is shaped but needs some adjustments made on the butt and molding cut on the forestock.
What's should be next, the nosecap, toe plate, key escutcheons? I would do trigger guard next but waiting to get it back from my neighbor for a welding fix.
(https://i.ibb.co/0fqYTdL/IMG-20220917-203647565.jpg) (https://ibb.co/khKqjWT)
(https://i.ibb.co/23k5dNz/IMG-20220917-203652064.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Wv2sftr)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZWqHMR3/IMG-20220917-203655497.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cD4brKP)
(https://i.ibb.co/f4XLNWy/IMG-20220917-203727182.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GcdNMD8)
(https://i.ibb.co/WxGTb4V/IMG-20220917-203807458.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tmQd7TL)
(https://i.ibb.co/6N7sT2k/IMG-20220917-203815408.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DLHKvNZ)
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It looks great so far.
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It's been quite awhile since I've updated this thread.
I have the escutcheons, nose cap, trigger guard, and toe plate installed. The trigger guard took a different turn than I had originally intended, but I like the one I've come up with.
Left to do is the cheek piece inlay, patchbox, and potentially some forestock molding but I'm not sure yet on that one.
Below is a picture of my patchbox finial.
Does it look like it's bent to match the contour well enough?
(https://i.ibb.co/swX9J2z/IMG-20221218-235950735-HDR.jpg) (https://ibb.co/J7SjFKg)
Here are some more recent photo updates, but it doesn't show my trigger guard installed.
(https://i.ibb.co/WH6MCNB/IMG-20221114-210753270.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vcHT9CL)
(https://i.ibb.co/74Ptd2m/IMG-20221021-010106679.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3z2m9BZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/fxZKbhQ/IMG-20221021-010054445.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XC6d9hV)
(https://i.ibb.co/YNjgzkh/IMG-20221021-005949019.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vcz97Pk)
(https://i.ibb.co/chzTvkx/IMG-20221021-005905078.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QvsmcpX)
(https://i.ibb.co/jwJtyfP/IMG-20221021-005833496.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GMHmWp4)
(https://i.ibb.co/2Z58hWz/IMG-20221021-005809355.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wcYJgBn)
(https://i.ibb.co/zGDt86b/IMG-20221021-005802192.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f4LT8Dt)
(https://i.ibb.co/7Skz0HZ/IMG-20221021-005733254.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9pZvdJ1)
(https://i.ibb.co/XZZrBRD/IMG-20221021-005616799.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rGGRPr3)
(https://i.ibb.co/xmQD8xb/IMG-20221021-005457478.jpg) (https://ibb.co/q0wdFT8)
Also, the nosecap is purchased. I made the escutcheons. Here's how I bent them. It seemed to work ok. I was going to pin them in, but filed too heavy a draft on the edges and after inletting them realized that simple pins may not hold well because they weren't very tight in the inlet. I put some wriggle engraving on the backside, used some JB 5 min epoxy in the screw holes and inlet, put the escutcheon in, used size 0 wood screws, then filed the head off the head so the screw slot was gone but left enough of the head to seat on the hole countersink and appear as a pin.
(https://i.ibb.co/cgz020k/IMG-20220919-001632018.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WxSZBZG)
(https://i.ibb.co/CBqwncC/IMG-20221002-003119597.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1Z309gy)
(https://i.ibb.co/tLc0vhL/IMG-20220923-194242030.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vXmNTBX)
(https://i.ibb.co/TTRrFpf/IMG-20220923-194136147.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4fMJ59q)
(https://i.ibb.co/CK1CyPW/IMG-20220929-233712724.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m5DZKNS)
(https://i.ibb.co/qn39Xjx/IMG-20220929-232757927.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b3MLqm7)
(https://i.ibb.co/xSpqZKj/IMG-20220929-233252796.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6R30QcP)
(https://i.ibb.co/nwNtnjK/IMG-20221002-004041884.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Gd4NtRr)
get url for photo (https://imgbb.com/)
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I went back and read the whole build documentation today after following the story for some time. It has been very interesting to see all of the solutions you have come up with and gunsmithing kinks you have used to overcome barriers to success. I haven't done a Hawken or Plains type build since the late '70's, but your build has somewhat renewed my interest in doing one again. Do you have any idea of what the weight of the rifle will be when completed?
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I went back and read the whole build documentation today after following the story for some time. It has been very interesting to see all of the solutions you have come up with and gunsmithing kinks you have used to overcome barriers to success. I haven't done a Hawken or Plains type build since the late '70's, but your build has somewhat renewed my interest in doing one again. Do you have any idea of what the weight of the rifle will be when completed?
I think I found nearly all the tricks I utilized on this forum. I owe a huge debt to the gentlemen here that have made their knowledge available.
I think it will end up being around 8.5 pounds, but potentially less.
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Here's where I'm at with my project.
I've got the door/finial and first side plate in. I need to take the rear corner of the side plate a little deeper. Then I'll get the second side plate cut out and inletted.
I unfortunately filed down the finial too early. The door near the hinge sits higher than the end meeting the buttplate, so it will be a bit thin near the hinge.
I have some gaps that bother me. Not sure if I'll glue a little wood in or see how noticeable it is after it's finished.
Getting the bends of the patchbox and side plate to match my butt stock was tougher than I thought. Hopefully, she turns out looking ok.
(https://i.ibb.co/Dfw9PTt/IMG-20230312-204939091-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k2q4Vvx)
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I think it’s already turning out much better than ok, especially for a first time build! It sounds like you have a good handle on what’s supposed to be “right”, and have endeavored to work that out. From a craftsmanship point of view, the overall “look” is very pleasing. I think it flows well, is neat, and your wood to metal and metal to metal fit is very nice. That can be difficult to do when working with steel parts. Nice job…, looking forward to seeing more of the progress. Best,
Ed
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HighUintas, I think your work is impressive!
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Thank you both for the kind words.
Patchbox is done and everything is shaped and flush and smooth. Now it's time for sanding, whiskering, and deciding if fluting or any incise lines are appropriate before stain.
I think likely not, as this is sort of a mix between a mountain working gun like a Hawken and Philip Creamer's fancy work. I'll put some engraving on the metal after I learn, but I think fluting the forestock and doing an bead line similar to the Creamer rifle, would likely be a little out of place for what this is supposed to be.
(https://i.ibb.co/sK28Sbc/IMG-20230526-113546429.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F5KRvmc)
(https://i.ibb.co/djFvhP6/IMG-20230526-113450466.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sbn4BKQ)
(https://i.ibb.co/6m20kBS/IMG-20230526-113331467.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KXYxJwg)
(https://i.ibb.co/qxq4FCh/IMG-20230526-113628756.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4JvDg2C)
(https://i.ibb.co/5G4mJZ9/IMG-20230526-113721610.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fqFfTJS)
(https://i.ibb.co/HYdt5fd/IMG-20230526-135726301.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Mp6cFx6)
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That’s some very nice metal fit/ finishing on that patch box HU. Metal work/finishing is my favorite part of this hobby and I can see the time, effort, and sore fingers that went into that. Well done.
Bob
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Your workmanship is superb.
Your lock inletting is fantastic.
Please tell me you are going to replace the Phillip's head screws with slotted screws.
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Your workmanship is superb.
Your lock inletting is fantastic.
Please tell me you are going to replace the Phillip's head screws with slotted screws.
Thanks. Absolutely. That will be one of the last things I do. I'm good at buggering them up even after hardening with the cherry red stuff
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Finished (very nearly) rifle https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=77529.0 (https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=77529.0)