AmericanLongRifles Forums

General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: lexington1 on April 22, 2022, 03:24:20 AM

Title: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: lexington1 on April 22, 2022, 03:24:20 AM
I got my Lion and Lamb rifle from Mike Brooks today. When I examined it, it dawned on me that everything I have set up on one of my bags would fit this gun perfectly. Less than an hour after uncrating it I was out shooting it. I was not disappointed! This rifle fits me very well and has my ideal weight and balance. The lock is a Siler by Walter Cain. I shot 20 shots and it went off quickly every time and was really easy on the flint. I hit all of my gongs at various distances, so I think it must be pretty close to being sighted in for me. I can't wait for a warmer day so I can see exactly how it's doing from the bench.
(https://i.ibb.co/8d8DZX3/20220421-153023-Trim-Moment-Copyw.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4YNZrJy)

(https://i.ibb.co/gJKzF3F/20220421-153023-Trim-Moment-3-Copys.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m4W6FGF)
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: Daryl on April 22, 2022, 03:30:20 AM
GREAT!! That little primer is cute.
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: Marcruger on April 22, 2022, 03:53:18 AM
Congratulations. A day to remember.  Mighty happy for you good sir. God bless, Marc
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: Keith Zimmerman on April 22, 2022, 05:10:46 AM
Keep us posted on ur range work.  I talked my buddy Mike Z into buying another of Mikes L&L guns awhile ago.  Beautiful well balanced gun.  He has never shot it.
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: alacran on April 22, 2022, 01:41:46 PM
Congratulations!
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: DavidC on April 22, 2022, 04:41:04 PM
Glad to see you happy with the new gun.

The angle in the first photo, how many counties away was your gong?!  ;D
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: lexington1 on April 22, 2022, 05:15:08 PM
I had the sight setting at the highest level :D. I was shooting at a gong up on the hill, lol.  ;D
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: BOB HILL on April 28, 2022, 06:33:14 PM
A fine rifle for sure. Congratulations.
Bob
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: DavidC on April 28, 2022, 07:18:44 PM
I like to think the gun provides MB quality commentary on your shooting within the echo of the muzzle report; a soft "I'd opt for better shooting..." drifting on the breeze after a missed shot.

Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: Mike Brooks on April 29, 2022, 04:42:06 PM
I'm glad you like it. It probably has a 1/4 X 28 touch hole liner in it as it was built before the whit lightning was invented. Did you have the right size ball as it turned out to be a .52? Also, if you're a dedicated target shooter you have to love those sights!
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: Mike Brooks on April 29, 2022, 04:47:23 PM
I like to think the gun provides MB quality commentary on your shooting within the echo of the muzzle report; a soft "I'd opt for better shooting..." drifting on the breeze after a missed shot.
You'll finally come to the conclusion I'm always right.
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: GameStalker on April 29, 2022, 10:34:50 PM
I REALLY like the shape and the lines of the buttstock! Just So Right!
Why is it called Lion & Lamb Rifle please? (I'm familiar with the Biblical basis of the phrase.)
(https://i.ibb.co/CM1CVTS/Nice-Lines.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: lexington1 on April 29, 2022, 10:37:58 PM
I do like the sights! No worries about heat waves, that's for sure. I happen to have a Rapine mold in .500 and with .020 cotton duck patching it fits perfect. I already had a bunch of balls made up for another somewhat oddball bore size rifle that I have so I was able to take it right out of the box and shoot it. I hit all of the gongs I have spread out throughout the property so I was impressed. I can't wait to get it on the bench and see how it's really doing, but so far it has impressed the heck out of me. I shot twenty shots with the flint that was on the lock and it still looks the same, nice and sharp. I swore that I was done buying any more contemporary rifles, as I will never get around to enjoying all of the ones I have before I die, but I saw this one and, well, j just had to have it. 
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: lexington1 on April 29, 2022, 10:41:03 PM
I REALLY like the shape and the lines of the buttstock! Just So Right!
Why is it called Lion & Lamb Rifle please? (I'm familiar with the Biblical basis of the phrase.)
(https://i.ibb.co/CM1CVTS/Nice-Lines.png) (https://imgbb.com/)

This has, quite literally, a Lamb patchbox and a carved Lion behind the cheekpiece.

(https://i.ibb.co/wrwZsCg/DSCF2125.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1JdY6KQ)
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: DavidC on April 30, 2022, 05:27:08 AM
Come to think of it, Mike, didn't you argue once that you didn't think it was a lion depicted on the original?
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: Mike Brooks on April 30, 2022, 12:16:20 PM
Yes.
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: lexington1 on April 30, 2022, 05:22:28 PM
Yes, but Lion and Lamb sounds better than Lion and Thing.
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: Mike Brooks on April 30, 2022, 06:07:13 PM
Yes, but Lion and Lamb sounds better than Lion and Thing.
I think the box is either a dog or leopard. There is another early CS gun with a carved animal on the left side that I believe is a leopard, complete with spots. Which makes me think the L&L gun's box is a leopard also.
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: lexington1 on April 30, 2022, 09:49:38 PM
That's very interesting. I like the leopard reference better. There is no denying that the spots have definitely been put on the carving, but to me it looks like a lion with leopard spots.  Any ideas why it might be a leopard? Whatever the case, I like it!
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: Mike Brooks on April 30, 2022, 11:20:59 PM
That's very interesting. I like the leopard reference better. There is no denying that the spots have definitely been put on the carving, but to me it looks like a lion with leopard spots.  Any ideas why it might be a leopard? Whatever the case, I like it!
Something I read about wooden 17th century Jewish synagogues. It was also on PBS a couple years ago. Anyway, the inside of these places were painted with the same images of these CS guns. Can't find the link I used to have.
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: lexington1 on May 01, 2022, 03:25:14 AM
I did a quick internet bible search and there are numerous references to leopards, including Isaiah 11:6. Maybe the carving is a reference to that?
(https://i.ibb.co/pwPRLKj/d9fb3c9d6116b6473c987f77d5664725.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zx5742V)
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: Mike Brooks on May 01, 2022, 05:40:10 AM
I think so. I believe these men at CS were using illustrated  bibles from the old country for inspiration for their designs.  Otherwise they wouldn't have had any real idea  of what these beasties looked like.
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: DavidC on May 01, 2022, 05:51:20 PM
Pretty sure I know the leopard it's based off of.  ;D

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BjzmKd9IQAAIkSM.jpg
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: Mike Brooks on May 01, 2022, 07:47:57 PM
Go away son, you bother me.
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: Frozen Run on May 01, 2022, 09:19:25 PM
Congrats on your new gun, you did good picking it up!
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: lexington1 on May 01, 2022, 10:21:28 PM
A 12th century depiction of a Leopard. Almost as goofy as the stuffed one above, but it does sort of resemble the carving on the Lion and Lamb rifle.
(https://i.ibb.co/kmcKXLT/1001229825-photo-u2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/J3knHYT)

(https://i.ibb.co/pf8tMLT/19140182-10-sm.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GWLK85D)
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: Mike Brooks on May 01, 2022, 10:39:57 PM
Google up " 17th century wooden synagogues" I think these were in Poland.  The interior decoration is identical to these Moravian guns and American German folk art in general.
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: Mike Brooks on May 01, 2022, 10:50:22 PM
Here's a link. https://www.handshouse.org/wooden-synagogue-project-history
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: Mike Brooks on May 01, 2022, 10:55:35 PM
Looks alot like the "lamb's head" patchbox finial. I think it's a panther or dog, possibly a leopard or lion....
(https://i.ibb.co/H4QdpfF/R.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)

A couple renderings of the "Lion". Even the tails are the same as on the gun.
(https://i.ibb.co/KKh2w7F/Wroclaw.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LNRx56n)
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: lexington1 on May 02, 2022, 05:07:52 AM
That certainly does look like it. I'm generally not into reading religious symbolism in the embellishment of longrifles, but the Lion and Lamb gun does make you wonder.
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: Mike Brooks on May 02, 2022, 05:28:05 PM
That certainly does look like it. I'm generally not into reading religious symbolism in the embellishment of longrifles, but the Lion and Lamb gun does make you wonder.
That small early group supposedly by Albrecht all have these similar animal features. I think they are all by Oerter myself. I wouldn't be surprised if an early illustrated bible was open on the bench for inspiration on these guns.
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: Mike Lyons on May 02, 2022, 06:08:46 PM
Thanks for the info Mike.  I've been researching CS guns, Moravian and Puritans culture and this is some good information.  That Bird faced Lion animal is on a CS gun also. Check out this old painting of an "Moravian Girl."  It sure looks a whole lot like the disputed "Lehigh Face."  Many of the girls in the "Ride of the Kings Festival" look like the Lehigh Face.


(https://i.ibb.co/gyqLTyN/Moravian-Girl.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dBCw2BF)
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: Daryl on May 02, 2022, 07:53:49 PM
Looks alot like the "lamb's head" patchbox finial. I think it's a panther or dog, possibly a leopard or lion....
(https://i.ibb.co/H4QdpfF/R.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)

That one I suspect is a lion being speared in the mouth by a unicorn.
The lion's dark "mane" gives truth to the "lion" supposition, however the head does look rather dog-ish.
Title: Re: Mike Brooks Lion and Lamb rifle.
Post by: ipman on May 15, 2022, 02:26:30 AM
Very nice rifle, congrats. Hope it shoots as good as it looks.