AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: Tacitus on June 06, 2022, 03:16:35 AM
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Has anyone tried neetsfoot oil as a patch lube? Opinions or thoughts?
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Has anyone tried neetsfoot oil as a patch lube? Opinions or thoughts?
I’m not an expert shooter but my understanding is that a good lube allows easier ramming, softens fouling if one shoots without wiping between shots, and contributes to consistent resistance of the patched ball upon ignition. If left in the bore for more than a few minutes, it should not promote rusting. Everything from spit to tallow to animal greases and synthetics can work well. From my understanding, consistency matters a great deal. Any of these lubes that can be applied consistently can give fine accuracy. Spit seems like it should set a pretty low bar but many excellent shooters use it exclusively. So, neetsfoot oil should work fine.
A search here for neetsfoot oil in the shooting section shows it works for some.
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If using Neatsfoot oil make sure it is 100% pure Neatsfoot oil not a blend or compound. I used to use it solely as my only lube all year long for target, trail walks and hunting. A couple of years ago I tried mixing it 50/50 with TOTW mink oil. I found both to work equally well. As I bought 10 tins of mink and have a large supply of Neatsfoot oil I will continue to use the blend. The bonus of the pure Neatsfoot oil is it works great on any leather, so I annually treat my shooting bags, cows knees, and straps.
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I go back to what Mad Monk (Bill Knight) told me, "Make sure whatever you use for lube can be removed with your cleaner of choice."
I learned that neither water nor windshield washer fluid cut graphite, which is a byproduct of all of our black powder these days.
Mr. Flintlock lube will remove graphite, learned from Bill. The original LVL did too, and Mr. Flintlock is very similar. I use Mr Flintlock as my final cleaning each session.
Mr. Flintlock and Hoppes Blackpowder Lube and Cleaner both are great lubes, the latter being REALLY slippery. I wouldn't trade either for neetsfoot oil.
I have never had a mind that says, "Hey, I wonder if I can use this for lube?" I am an engineer, and learned from an engineer and professor, so I stick with the known. I only change if something is proven better in my testing, and change one thing at a time. I really enjoyed Mad Monk as he had a super inquisitive mind and vast experience with testing. I learned a lot from him.
You may have a lube you like. For the sake of newcomers, I like to point out known and available products like Mr. Flintlock and Hoppes Black Powder Lube and Cleaner for wet lubing. The Track 100% mink oil is a good lube for hunting and when the gun may stay loaded a while. I also like to point out the The Minute-Men plain 100% canvas patching material is a no-lose proposition for a tough and reliable patching.
I hope this helps someone. God Bless, Marc
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I'm curious if that graphite left in the bore will hurt or affect much. I don't think it's corrosive. Can it build up to the point of affecting loading or accuracy? :-\
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Tacitus:
I have great success with both Neatsfoot oil and TOTW mink, but take time and really read Marcruger's post. Marc is wise beyond his years (however many that may be). Find what works for you and stick with it. The "Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" is a recipe for frustration.
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I've used both, Neetsfoot Oil and Track's Mink Oil for hunting with my .69, as well as using both in the .36 for trail walks.
I find Mink oil to be slipperier(?) than Neetsfoot Oil when loading in the .36, but did not notice this with the .69 rifle.
I don't think I would use any of the liquids like LHV or Mr. Flintlock for hunting. For that purpose, Neestfoot Oil and Track's
Mink Oil work just fine.
Accuracy wise, the slippery lubes like Mr. Flintock or LHV, for me gave identical accuracy to my normal water based lubes, if
I added an extra 5gr. 3F in the .36, 10gr. 3F or 2F in both the .40 and .45 rifles.
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I have used neetsfoot. It works about like any other oily stuff. The key is to not use so much as to make a slimy mess.
I have also use lots of other oils and greases. For now I am sticking with beef tallow on rolled up strips of patch material. IT is clean to use and mostly solid in my climate. It melts in the bore upon firing. I have it in the kitchen anyway.
For load testing I use GI bore cleaner.
Jojoba is supposed to be similar to whale oil. Recently I tried Jojoba oil with a dash of anhydrous lanolin. That was very slick. It also got on my hands and ramrod. IT did not shoot any better than other. Bear oil worked fine but had no magic. Olive oil, crisco, vegetable oil, vaseline, lanolin, deer tallow, mineral oil, bore butter and all other greases and oils work about the same for me.
One thing that seems to have advantages is a soft BPCR type lube with soap in it. I make up the lube, then add MOS instead of soap shavings. IT come out like peanut butter. For cap an ball revolvers, filling the base of a bullet or sabot it really helps. The lube turns to liquid upon firing and coats the bore. Loading is very easy and cleaning not needed for many shots from a loading perspective.
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I tested Dr. Jackson's pure NFO as a patch lube... Loading was very easy. Accuracy decreased though. Perhaps it was actually too slick.
Also... every time I fired the gun I got a faint whiff of steaks grilling. Kinda nice. Lol
Muskrat Mike's mix of NFO and Track's Mink tallow has worked pretty well for me... I didn't measure out a 50/50 mix. I just added NFO until I got a consistency I thought would work. Mine is in the neighborhood of petroleum jelly.
YMMV.
Mike
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I have used it as my only lube this go-round (I didn't shoot BM much for 15 years). It seems to load fairly easy, but my cleaning (round bottom grooves) is very tedious. The patches smell like BP, so I'm pretty sure it's not the oil.
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I use Mr. Flintlock's lube for all my practice and just general shooting. For my hunting I use what has worked for years. In my .54's I lube with Wonder Lube.
In my .40 I use Canola oil.
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Unlike Marc and Mike....I'm a Chemist and I do enjoy "trying new stuff"....just because. I have used pure Neatsfoot oil. It loaded easy, no wiping between shots required, performance on targets was as good as any "decent lube". On the downside...of all the various products I've run through my rifles, ...Neatsfoot Oil is the only one ( so far...) that gave me a very noticeable crud ring, deep in my barrel, right about where the patched balls would rest. That was after 30 rds or so and I'm the first to admit I might very well have been using too much of it on my precut patches. Got the crud out and haven't messed with Neatsfoot Oil anymore.
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Used it, but prefer deer tallow.
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For hunting, I have used Crisco Oil, Vegetable Oil, Neestfoot Oil, Marmot Oil, Track's Mink Oil and Bear Grease.
I prefer'd the mink Oil and Marmot Oil, then Bear Grease, then Neetsfoot Oil.
The vegetable and Crisco did not work well at all. I felt they have too low a burning/flash point.
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I go back to what Mad Monk (Bill Knight) told me, "Make sure whatever you use for lube can be removed with your cleaner of choice."
I learned that neither water nor windshield washer fluid cut graphite, which is a byproduct of all of our black powder these days.
Mr. Flintlock lube will remove graphite, learned from Bill. The original LVL did too, and Mr. Flintlock is very similar. I use Mr Flintlock as my final cleaning each session.
Mr. Flintlock and Hoppes Blackpowder Lube and Cleaner both are great lubes, the latter being REALLY slippery. I wouldn't trade either for neetsfoot oil.
I have never had a mind that says, "Hey, I wonder if I can use this for lube?" I am an engineer, and learned from an engineer and professor, so I stick with the known. I only change if something is proven better in my testing, and change one thing at a time. I really enjoyed Mad Monk as he had a super inquisitive mind and vast experience with testing. I learned a lot from him.
You may have a lube you like. For the sake of newcomers, I like to point out known and available products like Mr. Flintlock and Hoppes Black Powder Lube and Cleaner for wet lubing. The Track 100% mink oil is a good lube for hunting and when the gun may stay loaded a while. I also like to point out the The Minute-Men plain 100% canvas patching material is a no-lose proposition for a tough and reliable patching.
I hope this helps someone. God Bless, Marc
Swiss is not graphited. Pure Neatsfoot works good. Neatsfoot/Beeswax 50-50 by WEIGHT, just be very careful the Beeswax is PURE. Heat in double boiler direct heat ruins the wax. Then add hot/warm oil and leave on the heat for a time mixing so it combines properly. If teh beeswax is not really clean use only the top ;ayer after its been melted and settled leaving teh $#@* in the lower part of the melt. Tallow done right is great too but better in warm weather.. Must be triple boiled in clean water each time to remove impurities.
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Since my previous post I tried Ballistol 5:1 on strips, dried, and cut a the muzzle. My groups were cut in half. I get no smoldering patches. The patches do not feel oily or attract dirt.
For my purposes avoiding swabbing between shots is not a priority. I have not found any juicy, oily, or greasy patch loads to shoot with best accuracy in my guns.
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I have been using neatsfoot oil as a patch lube for five years now. I am happy with its performance and recommend it highly. I bought it a Tractor Supply store.
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Marcruger can you supply the contacts for the folks at Minute-Men Patch?
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I have some "Feibing's" (sp?) pure neetsfoot oil. Although I cannot recall how accurate it was when I tried it, I do remember that while seating the ball the patched ball would "scoot" down the bore not smoothly but erratically like the neetsfoot oil wasn't very slippery. This would indicate to me that it might be more consistent in accuracy because of the lack of being slippery.
Bob
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Brian Sweeney, here is the contact info. Just call Ron in the evenings, and leave a message if you miss him. The website doesn't work, and he doesn't check email. The quality of the 100% cotton densely-woven canvas is amazing though, and worth a few phone calls. I get the UNTREATED canvas, not the teflon coated. God Bless, Marc
(https://i.ibb.co/vqxYkXz/The-Minute-Men-Patching.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g9MVJ4g)
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I've found through trials in 2 rifles, that very slippery lubes required more powder to gain back the rifles accuracy that was lost using the same charges that worked with less slippery lubricants..
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Neatsfoot oil works great as a patch lube. I use it on cloth patches for picket rifles as well as paper patches for slug rifles. When shooting light offhand rifles I use spit, but in cold weather I use neatsfoot oil so my patches don't freeze in the barrel. When blended with beeswax neatsfoot oil makes a most excellent bullet lube. If you are unable to find pure neatsfoot oil in your locale don't worry, the neatsfoot compound works just fine: your rifle won't know the difference.
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I go back to what Mad Monk (Bill Knight) told me, "Make sure whatever you use for lube can be removed with your cleaner of choice."
I learned that neither water nor windshield washer fluid cut graphite, which is a byproduct of all of our black powder these days.
Mr. Flintlock lube will remove graphite, learned from Bill. The original LVL did too, and Mr. Flintlock is very similar. I use Mr Flintlock as my final cleaning each session.
Mr. Flintlock and Hoppes Blackpowder Lube and Cleaner both are great lubes, the latter being REALLY slippery. I wouldn't trade either for neetsfoot oil.
I have never had a mind that says, "Hey, I wonder if I can use this for lube?" I am an engineer, and learned from an engineer and professor, so I stick with the known. I only change if something is proven better in my testing, and change one thing at a time. I really enjoyed Mad Monk as he had a super inquisitive mind and vast experience with testing. I learned a lot from him.
You may have a lube you like. For the sake of newcomers, I like to point out known and available products like Mr. Flintlock and Hoppes Black Powder Lube and Cleaner for wet lubing. The Track 100% mink oil is a good lube for hunting and when the gun may stay loaded a while. I also like to point out the The Minute-Men plain 100% canvas patching material is a no-lose proposition for a tough and reliable patching.
I hope this helps someone. God Bless, Marc
You don’t need to remove the dihexagonal dipyramidal crystalline form of C from the bore.
You need to remove the corrosive salt deposits and organic detritus.
Graphite is insoluble in hydroxic acid and it isn’t uncommon to find trace amounts on cleansing patches even after all harmful compounds have been extricated from the metallic surfaces of the arm.
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I go back to what Mad Monk (Bill Knight) told me, "Make sure whatever you use for lube can be removed with your cleaner of choice."
I learned that neither water nor windshield washer fluid cut graphite, which is a byproduct of all of our black powder these days.
Mr. Flintlock lube will remove graphite, learned from Bill. The original LVL did too, and Mr. Flintlock is very similar. I use Mr Flintlock as my final cleaning each session.
Mr. Flintlock and Hoppes Blackpowder Lube and Cleaner both are great lubes, the latter being REALLY slippery. I wouldn't trade either for neetsfoot oil.
I have never had a mind that says, "Hey, I wonder if I can use this for lube?" I am an engineer, and learned from an engineer and professor, so I stick with the known. I only change if something is proven better in my testing, and change one thing at a time. I really enjoyed Mad Monk as he had a super inquisitive mind and vast experience with testing. I learned a lot from him.
You may have a lube you like. For the sake of newcomers, I like to point out known and available products like Mr. Flintlock and Hoppes Black Powder Lube and Cleaner for wet lubing. The Track 100% mink oil is a good lube for hunting and when the gun may stay loaded a while. I also like to point out the The Minute-Men plain 100% canvas patching material is a no-lose proposition for a tough and reliable patching.
I hope this helps someone. God Bless, Marc
I too treasure everything Bill has told me.
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Has anyone tried neetsfoot oil as a patch lube? Opinions or thoughts?
In comparing Neetsfoot Oil with bear oil, I prefer the Neetsfoot Oil. Recently, I tested some VERY liquid bear oil in sub freezing temps and found it more difficult to seat in the .69, than
Neetsfoot Oil. It appeared to be not as slick. Too, Track's mink oil, more a thick slightly hard grease than an oil, is easier loading than Neetsfoot Oil. For me, patches must be saturated
to get easy loading, not simply wiped across the lube - my own experiments. I always use saturated patches, with excess grease or oil (or water based) squeezed out.
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In my .54 rifle I built in 1987 I've been using Wonder Lube for hunting and just plain shooting....I noticed only Darkhorse is the only one that mentioned it....Does anyone else use Wonder Lube and if so how do you think it compares to all the others...Pete
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Some people report a build up of difficult to remove substance in the bore after using wonder lube.
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I have "heard" the same about buildup, which does seem strange to me. Must be fairly loose loads to allow a buildup.
Neetsfoot Oil and Track's Mink Oil work for me. I first tried the mink oil back in the mid 80's and it was SUPER good lube
for hunting, even in very cold freezing weather. Only my first shot was lubed with mink oil. Subsequent shots were from
paper ctgs. These work very well in calibres .54 and over. Bruce S. member here has experimented with them down to
.54 calibre and says they worked very well.
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Fortunately for me, I'm seldom shooting in below freezing temps. TOWs mink oil works very well for me under most all conditions. My homemade lube starts with 50/50 beeswax/crisco for warm weather and I add a little neetsfoot oil or olive oil or canola oil as needed in winter. I've personally never noticed a difference in which oil I choose to thin the lube.
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Has anyone tried neetsfoot oil as a patch lube? Opinions or thoughts?
Works great. But don’t over lube them. Messy. A few drops on a patch and allowed to set over night or squeeze them between vise jaws to remove the excess and make them uniformly oily. I use the aluminum backers on Brownells plastic vise jaw pads when I do this. Like if I need them that day, Used it for years.
I would not put them in a patchbox either.
I carry then in a tin in the shot pouch.
You can alos mix it with beeswax to make a pretty good patch lube. 2:1 BW to oil by WEIGHT. You can play with the formula. To harden or soften in. Use a double boiler. Never use direct heat on BW. Two cans that will fin in each other will work. Or check thrift stores for a used double boiler.
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I tried finding a MSDS for Wonderlube and had not luck. At least not the stuff traditions sells. Sounds like snake oil to me. Most BP solvents are. And they are grossly overpriced.
Graphite.
SFAIK Swiss has no graphite.
Graphite is added to the powder, especially lower grade powders to 1. Make them look like a better grade of powder. 2. Make them flow easier.
I don’t know what the Major market for BP is in the world today but until a few years ago it was the military. Its used in fuses and boosters in propellant charges for field peices and naval artillery. The military, in this context did nto care about fouling all that mattered was that the powder was good enough to burn properly (like in grenade fuses, and would ignite properly when used as a booster for large propellant charges. Even the 105 Howitzer used a BP booter in the primer tube to properly ignite the main charge. Thus the production at Moosic at least went to the military and IIRC what bill knight wrote or told me about it that all dupont used it for was military powder. I have no idea if the military is still the prime used of BP or not or it Goex was the supplier. But neither Dupont made in Moosic, G-O or Goex was of the quality of the powders available in the mid-late 19th c. And I can say without reservation that the late production at Moosic was $#@*. Why? Because is was made with well water contaminated with sulfur oxiding bacteria that would eat the sulfur while the powder was in storage or in the can. ML shooters did not notice this but PBCR shooters using drop tubes sure did. THis is from Bill by the way not something i made up.
The British military, back in the BP era and perhaps beyond would not accept powders coated with “black lead”.
One of the best ever patch lubes was Sperm Whale Oil. From the head not the rendered stuff. But its not available except maybe in Japan who still kills whales SFAIK. Some of the best patch lube I ever used was the old Sharps Rifle Co. lube recipe. 1:2 BW: SW oil by weight.