AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: JTR on July 21, 2022, 10:11:11 PM
-
Well maybe not a resurrection, but back in one piece again!
I was thrilled to have this rifle come to my place for its restoration work. I’ve had it for the past 3 ½ months and have put a lot of hours into the work.
The first picture is the way the rifle was found when bought. This link will take you to that thread started by the owner back in March; https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=69696.0
The remaining pictures are the ones I’ve taken of it now.
After much discussion with the owner, he decided to do a full, but limited restoration. By that I mean the rifle was to be put back together, the missing forearm wood replaced, the missing wood in the tang area restored, the lock restored back to flint, etc., but to leave the wood finish as is, old, uncleaned, leave old splinters and chips alone, though stabilized if loose. I suggested and he agreed that a small bit of finishing oil be applied to the wood to bring out a bit of luster. As is now, it has a bit of soft warm patina, but if left alone will pretty quickly return to a dry look on the wood.
A note on the lock restoration. In the original thread there was some discussion on returning it to original flint condition, or leaving it as a percussion. Generally, when doing that work, the threaded hole into the barrel for the percussion drum is weld closed, and a new touch hole drilled. For this barrel, I thought a different approach would be better. For one thing, in style with the early date of this gun, the Joel Ferree signature starts at about the forward end of the lock (as opposed to several inches forward on a later period gun) and I was concerned that welding heat would discolor the barrel signature area. The signature is somewhat faint and the barrel has a great patina, and I didn’t want to touch it. To that end, I plugged the threaded hole with a piece of antique iron, blended the plug into the surrounding area, drilled a touch hole, and did the conversion without any heat. And this way, it’s also easily reversible. Just easy-out the plug - screw the drum in, and reconvert the lock to percussion. That’s easy as well, the lock, original to the gun, has a replaceable pan, so just remove it and the other flint parts, reinstall the percussion hammer and that’s it.
Obviously, there was a bunch more work done, but I’ll leave it to the pictures to show what was done.
If you have any questions, or comments, don’t hesitate to reply.
Thanks for looking, John
Click the image for a larger view.
(https://i.ibb.co/YdqLNBc/1-As-Found.jpg) (https://ibb.co/n15LwM7)
upload pic (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/pQGJ4xY/1-Full-length-Lock-side.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2SmgcyG)
(https://i.ibb.co/KskKPpV/2-Sideplate-full-length.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8xpYCLP)
-
(https://i.ibb.co/qWfg2Zw/3-half-Lock-side.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k9fDPdF)
(https://i.ibb.co/qgFJdLh/4-Half-Sideplate-side.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PWzDNsJ)
(https://i.ibb.co/1J6vNtb/5-Full-Signature.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BKNzJ5w)
-
(https://i.ibb.co/nCNWMy5/6-Butt-end.jpg) (https://ibb.co/16tSGNw)
(https://i.ibb.co/bBV7jDx/7-PB-cover.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XsPVfM9)
(https://i.ibb.co/8K7RFVg/8-PB-Cover-off.jpg) (https://ibb.co/K0rQCHx)
-
(https://i.ibb.co/pf4nw1h/9-Nose-Cap-Rivit-Screw.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m9hSTRN)
(https://i.ibb.co/gVdbLVQ/10-Tang-Carving-left.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sHCpdHc)
(https://i.ibb.co/d7CtkkR/11-Tang-carving-Right.jpg) (https://ibb.co/g6qdttx)
-
(https://i.ibb.co/cb0nq8G/12-Touch-Hole-No-Welding.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DGh2dMx)
(https://i.ibb.co/vP1mJ7K/12a-Lock-Interior.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zRsbSy0)
(https://i.ibb.co/7nG6N5T/12b-Touch-Hole-No-Welding.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9bqC3Lf)
-
Outstanding save!
-
Great job John!
-
John,
Excellent work.
Buck
-
Outstanding. This rifle is such a treasure. Fine restoration work
-
That is gorgeous! Great work!
Al J.
-
another patient saved . When it was broke in half people would say I bet that use to be a great gun. Now it is again. Nice work John. Jim
-
Extremely nice work and I especially appreciate the conservative approach. Wonderful job.
Sincerely, Moe.
-
John,
Just superb. Amazing what someone with talent, dedication, and a real passion can do.
Kent
-
Thank you guys for the kind words. It's really appreciated.
One of the requests by the owner was that I take pictures of every phase of the work, to have a complete record of before and after. So if there is any area you'd like to see, just let me know.
One particularly challenging area was the lock side tang area of the stock, which was basically missing. As was about half the tang.
I saved that part til last. ;-)
(https://i.ibb.co/PTmmYn2/7-Lock-area-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mvDDBwn)
(https://i.ibb.co/B4s5zYG/11-Tang-area-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YDjFRVX)
(https://i.ibb.co/VW47x5T/Tang-Pic.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nsJHBtj)
-
Many enthusiastic thanks to John and to Dick Gadler who introduced us. It's been a real education following the process and John was very accommodating. Now all I gotta' do is pry it out of his hands! ;)
-
Wow, that's really impressive work.
Thanks for sharing it.
Mike
-
@ JTR, you are a skilled & talented man. Nice work. Happy customer I am sure.
-
Appreciate your approach. Perfect.
-
And, the photos don't really do it justice. This is one magnificent rifle and it is all American. Let's start beating the bushes to see if any more turn up. John, you have done a lot of first rate restoration, but I swear, this is your best yet. Thanks to you and Brian for showing it here once more as a testament to the proposition that an old gun is worth saving and to inspire the brethren.
Dick
-
Kent, Yes, the barrel has a lug dovetailed on the bottom flat for the screw.
And yes, so far it's the only known fully signed Joel Ferree rifle!
I think there are only two other rifles signed J Ferree, and one by his nephew signed Jacob Ferree during that time period.
If anyone knows of another early signed J or Joel Ferree rifle, please contact me, or the lucky owner of this one, 120RIR, Brian, on this forum.
(https://i.ibb.co/238c3hK/14-Barrel-muzzle.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8gzPgs8)
-
Seeing those before and after shots shown are just plain incredible!
What you have accomplished with this fine historic piece will now stand the test of time hereafter!
WELL DONE John!!
-
Kent,
John shared the photos with me the other night while discussing the restoration, when I saw the photo of the muzzle I said you’d be interested in that photo.
John - can’t praise it enough, excellent work.
Brian - congrats on a grand early gun.
Buck
-
John and Buck,
Thanks for the info.
John, what would you estimate is the height of the tapped boss on the dovetailed lug for the end cap?
Kent
-
That is a grand old gun and a very nice restoration. Thank you for take the time and effort to share it with us.
-
Perfect and thank you both for taking that approach.
-
It's been fascinating to follow the restoration process and thanks to John for indulging my pin-headed, nit-picky input. It was a real blast although I have to admit I'm disappointed John didn't add the chrome-tipped LED light tip to the ramrod. ;) At this stage of the game, I would like to solicit any information the participants on this forum might have regarding Joel Ferree and his work. There is of course a fair amount of readily available information out there on Joel and the long line of Ferree gunsmiths but if anyone has any kind of relevant documents, potentially attributable rifles, etc., I would love to hear about it. Or - your thoughts on how this piece compares to others from the region from the same period, possible influences, etc. I continue trying to extend the rifle's provenance back beyond 1930 when a gentleman by the name of Michael Sturko and his wife bought their home and its contents (apparently including this rifle) on Old Frisbeetown Road, Rural Delivery 6, Lebouf Township, Erie County, Pennsylvania in 1930. However, I know there are many on this form with research skills and knowledge of Lancaster rifles and possibly Joel Ferree that I do not possess. Let's see what we can come up with.
-
John, what would you estimate is the height of the tapped boss on the dovetailed lug for the end cap?
Kent
Kent, The threaded boss is a little more than 1/8" high, and threaded for about a #8 machine screw.
John
-
Back from the dead, indeed! Great work on what is a slender beauty of a rifle!
-
A job well done and a job to be proud of for sure. Another wonderful longrifle saved for future generations to enjoy. Again, job well done, sir.
-
Thank you guys again, for all the fine comments! It's truly appreciated.
I know that some of you also do restoration work, and know what it would be like heading into doing something like this one.
For me, first, the excitement for being able to work on such a wonderful gun! Then how many hours it might take, along with the research, to make sure you get everything as right as possible. Also, talking with others, double checking my thoughts. And then deciding where to start, and how to do it. And finally, being satisfied with the result.
When the gun was first shown here by Brian (120RIR), the general consensus was it was an early gun, probably pre-Rev War, but just how early? Knowing that Joel Ferree was an early, prominent Lancaster area gun maker, gave a clue. Also knowing that he was tasks with supplying Committee of Safety muskets for the war effort added in as well. After pouring through books, talking to others, I'd think the gun was made 1770-ish. The barrel, as well as other things pointing to that time period. Maybe a bit earlier, maybe a bit later?
So, given all the good knowledgeable minds here, I wonder what you guys think?
John
-
The original of this interesting letter is at the Historical Society of Pennsylvania. I'll photograph it in early August when I'm there next.
(https://i.ibb.co/Z2D6LQX/2-PA-1-543.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fDwY13F)
-
Kent, The threaded boss is a little more than 1/8" high, and threaded for about a #8 machine screw.
John
If that 1/8"+ is typical for some of these rifles, I can see why Graeff chose to tap directly into the bottom flat of the barrel in the case of the rifle I have.
The clearance radius in the nose cap for the head of the ramrod, coupled with the thin web of the forestock and the thickness of the cap would preclude the use of a threaded lug inset into the barrel bottom flat.
Thanks John for the info.
Kent
-
Hey, great, Scott!
Thanks very much for posting that!
John
-
Kent, The threaded boss is a little more than 1/8" high, and threaded for about a #8 machine screw.
John
If that 1/8"+ is typical for some of these rifles, I can see why Graeff chose to tap directly into the bottom flat of the barrel in the case of the rifle I have.
The clearance radius in the nose cap for the head of the ramrod, coupled with the thin web of the forestock and the thickness of the cap would preclude the use of a threaded lug inset into the barrel bottom flat.
Thanks John for the info.
Kent
Kent, You're right in that there's not much left to work with up there. The threads on the screw in this rifle are barely 3/16" long.
And I can imagine a lot of broken off fore ends, when removing the barrel, the owner forgot to remove this screw!
-
I have to wonder if, based on the letter Scott provided, did this upscaling of Ferree's works (and no doubt the shops of other makers) indicate a sole focus on the manufacture of military arms for a period or was he perhaps also engaged in the continued manufacture of guns for the non-military trade during the war? I would assume he would have at least maintained some civilian clientele but perhaps his operation shifted almost entirely to a war footing like American automobile manufacturers during WWII.
-
John,
What are your thoughts as to whether this rifle may be a contemporary of the Miller Blockhouse Rifle or, pre- or postdate that rifle?
Kent
-
did this upscaling of Ferree's works (and no doubt the shops of other makers) indicate a sole focus on the manufacture of military arms for a period or was he perhaps also engaged in the continued manufacture of guns for the non-military trade during the war?
In November 1775 the revolutionary government of Lancaster County, the county committee of observation, compelled county gunsmiths to make muskets instead of rifles (full time) until the county quota (500 muskets) was complete, which it wasn't for a very long time. It wasn't, in part, because the gunsmiths didn't comply, as a subcommittee discovered when they made surprise visits to the gunsmiths' homes. But they were supposed to devote themselves solely to musket manufacture.
It seems something similar happened in December 1775 with Joel Ferree and barrel production, though, unlike the gunsmiths being forced to shift from rifle production to musket production, Ferree was willing. Here is the Lancaster County committee of observation's minute from December 11, 1775:
Resolved that tis the Opinion of this Committee that Mr. Joel Ferree immediately proceed to Work & forge Bore & Grind a Number of good Muskets Barrells compleated agreeable to the pattern sent from Philadelphia, the said Mr. Ferree not however to neglect the Barrels by him to be furnished for the County of Philadelphia according to the Contract Made between the Commissioners of said County & himself but to lay by all other Work whatsoever.
Mr Joel Ferree being in Committee & agreeing with Mr. Bowsman, Esq. one of the members of Committee & one of the Commissioners of Lancaster County to furnish as great a Number of good compleat Musket Barrells as he possibly can, finished agreeable to the Philadelphia Pattern at & for the price of Nineteen shillings each—the same to be delivered to the order of William Bowsman, Esq., for & upon account of the said County of Lancaster & also to grind the Musket Barrels forged & Bored by the Workmen in the said County for the use of the Gunsmiths thereof in Order to compleat their Contract with this Board at & for a reasonable price. The said Contract & Agreement are approved of by this Committee.
-
(https://i.ibb.co/HxGQSmx/clip-106137994.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xfzQkVf)
From the December 11, 1865 Lancaster Intelligencer Journal.
-
John,
What are your thoughts as to whether this rifle may be a contemporary of the Miller Blockhouse Rifle or, pre- or postdate that rifle?
Kent
Kent, I think the general consequences is that rifle was made late 1770's/ early 80s', and probably by the nephew Jacob Ferree. Though there might be newer info that I'm not aware of.
Dave M, What an interesting write up on that horn! I wonder where it is today?
John
John
-
A wonderful post and a job very well done! Thanks for sharing. It is a very nice piece.
-
Thank you Sequatchie Rifle!
The owner is going to pick it up in a couple weeks, so I'm still enjoying it. :D
John
-
I agree and say thanks for this post. Great information, thanks so much for sharing this work.
-
Thanks, Jim. Much appreciated.
And thanks to the owner as well!
John
-
Here's the original of that Joel Ferree letter--in the Historical Society of Pennsylvania (Society Collection).
(https://i.ibb.co/7JFpXkc/IMG-5643.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hRvdyY5)
(https://i.ibb.co/jrsQkGD/IMG-5644.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wzjPhC4)
-
Scott, Thanks for remembering to take these photographs.
It's interesting to read what was going on with Ferree 247 years ago, while one of his rifles leans in the corner of my room. (well, at least for another couple weeks ;) )
I assume it safe to believe the letter is in Ferree's hand, since there is no X mark, and signature?
Any idea of the meaning of the BRIG with the wavy line through it, at the top of the address page?
I'm sure Brian 120RIR will enjoy it as well.
John
-
I assume it safe to believe the letter is in Ferree's hand, since there is no X mark, and signature?
Any idea of the meaning of the BRIG with the wavy line through it, at the top of the address page?
Yes, I'm pretty sure this is Ferree's handwriting and signature. Sometimes somebody else will hand write a letter for somebody else, even if that person can sign it, but in this case the writing is all the same. It is a very unusually precise handwriting for an eighteenth-century craftsman.
No idea about that "BRIG"! I wonder if that was already on the paper that Ferree was using? Although, the way the letter would have been folded, that may have been on the back flap. But I really have no idea ....
-
Thanks for your thoughts.
I wondered, given its location when folded, if the BRIG might have been a postmaster seal sort of thing.
-
Thanks Scott! A look at the actual letter is revealing for several reasons but since we're often focused on signatures, I wonder if those little return loops present in every instance where a word ends in an "e" or an "L" are unique to Joel Ferree. In the letter, very few other word-ending letters exhibit this feature and of those exceptions, only inconsistently. Perhaps this is a stylistic peculiarity of Joel's penmanship and comparable to the extensions on the same letters in his name seen on the rifle in question (plus an identical extension off the "e" in Ferree on RCA 77). Different design, same concept. I claim no expertise in period penmanship and calligraphy so maybe it's a common trait of the times. However, just a thought that might have some relevance in identifying Joel's work and writings in the future. As for your research, thanks for keeping an eye out and posting these findings as they come up. Every piece of information like this adds to the broader context of this rifle in particular and to Ferree's work in general; what little appears to have survived.
As for reclaiming the rifle for the long drive north towards Tahoe - hmmm - I dunno'. We'll see how that goes in a couple of weeks. It's looking like I might have to sneak it out in the dark of night! ;)
(https://i.ibb.co/mDrSrBV/Signature-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LkDvDPX)
-
Great job John. I have seen quite a bit of your work. It's always top notch, but this is over the top!
-
Many thanks, Wes!
Hopefully we'll meet up at the Las Vegas show again.
Best Regards, John
-
Thanks for treating such a great piece of American history with such respect.
I commend you for a job well done! Made my whole day
-
Wonderful pictures of a fine piece! Thanks! The restoration work is amazing.
Is the barrel swamped and if so how much? Is it definitely a smooth bore?
Drop at the comb and heel?
Thanks,
Scott
-
Ain't she a peach and yes, John did an outstanding job to put it mildly.
Definitely a smooth bore and yes, the barrel is swamped - notably so. John could fill you in on the details for the next couple of weeks. :)
-
Mule Brain, ScottH, Thanks for your comments and I'm glad you like it!
I like it too, and reluctantly am going to have to give it back to 120RIR pretty quick. :-\
As for the measurements; At the muzzle the bore is right at .600", but about 1 1/2" in goes down to about .570" or so. When I had the breech plug out, looking down the bore there was no sign of any rifling, current or previous.
For the swamp, right at the muzzle it measures .940". Four inches back its down to .860", and eight inches back its down to .830". Fourteen inches back it's still about .830", then slowly increases going back the breech which is about .950".
Drop at the comb is about 1 5/8", and at the heel 3 1/2". It fits me perfectly; When I toss it up to my shoulder, I'm looking right down the sights!
Overall, the gun is a slender gal, and weighs in at 7 3/4 lbs.
John
-
John,
With regard to barrel swamp, was there a general "standard", for want of a better description, as to the degree and rate of barrel size reduction and then expansion near the muzzle? Or was it just by "feel"?
Kent
-
I have found that most jeager (and their derivative barrels, early English rifles and American guns) barrel swamps are created by drawing a parabola (which is very easily done with a pair of dividers and a straight edge) between Line A and Line B as shown in the attached image. Line A is drawn from the breech extremity to the bore at the muzzle and Line B is drawn between the muzzle extremity to the bore center at the breech.
I applied this method to the bore, length, breech, and muzzle measurements of the Ferree barrel found in the various discussions and the swamp predicted, .83 at 11 inches from the muzzle, matches very closely with the dimensions of the swamp supplied by John in the message above. The barrel in the drawing is shown at 1/10th its actual length to illustrate the method.
(https://i.ibb.co/VtsjD8c/image-2.png) (https://ibb.co/6mknb57)
The artistry was in the selection of where to pick the start and end points of the parabola guide lines. The English gunmakers tended for less flare at the muzzle by picking a point closer to the breech extremity.
Mike
-
That's very interesting, Mike!
At 11" back from the muzzle, the Ferree measures about .825"
John
-
John,
The dimension is rounded off in the drawing to .83 it is actually .827 or something like that. I turned the computer off so I can't check right now. I don't believe that this stuff was just eyeballed, these guys were just as much engineers as modern engineers, maybe more so. I don't know if they always made drawings, but a grinding template/pattern would be a simple thing for them to have laid out on a piece of wood, cut to shape, and used to check the barrel grinding.
Mike
-
I agree. These guys, for the most part, certainly weren't a bunch of ham fisted bumblers. Given the tools and lightening they had to work with, most, but not all, of the guns I've owned or worked on have had a fine degree of metal to wood fitting still evident after two centuries or more. Maybe not David Rase quality barrel inletting, but as good as the high quality hand inletting of today.
John
-
Here are a few more detail shots of the completed restoration. Nothing is nearly as "glossy" as these appear - that's just my poor lighting and photography skills. I would draw your attention to two details in particular. 1: The lock plate is 100% untouched and that patina is original. That's one heck of a job of matching the added parts, eh? 2: I've been looking over many references and have yet to see any comparable shading lines where the scrolls meet towards the butt. Any thoughts or examples I have missed?
I've had her on my desk most of the day while I'm working these past few days since I picked her up. She's great eye candy! If anyone would like to see other shots, just holler.
(https://i.ibb.co/BBFhXHN/Butt-Carve.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yq7zwmS)
(https://i.ibb.co/JFd0chD/Lock.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bR3q6fc)
(https://i.ibb.co/xSZ1jp9/Side.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Kjn2qM4)
(https://i.ibb.co/t88dyv8/TG1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6ggd6Tg)
(https://i.ibb.co/XCSf8jg/TG2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TgmDLYS)
-
Thanks for sharing these closeups. It looks as though the buttplate could have been swaged, not cast. What’s the width and height of the buttplate?
-
Excellent close-up photos! Thanks for letting us take a peak.
Re. the barrel swamp discussion.
The 47-1/4" long "J Graeff" signed barrel from my rifle measures: 1-1/32" at the breech, 7/8" at 35" from the breech, and 1" at the muzzle.
This Graeff signed barrel is its original length, not restored.
Kent
-
Interesting thought on the buttplate. Although it's never been off I'll take a closer look and maybe some clues will reveal themselves:
Buttplate width: 1 3/4
Buttplate height: 4 13/16
-
Excellent close-up photos! Thanks for letting us take a peak.
Re. the barrel swamp discussion.
The 47-1/4" long "J Graeff" signed barrel from my rifle measures: 1-1/32" at the breech, 7/8" at 35" from the breech, and 1" at the muzzle.
This Graeff signed barrel is its original length, not restored.
Kent
Kent,
What caliber is your Graeff? I'd like to see if it's following the same design.
Thanks,
Mike
-
Kent,
If your Graeff is a .62 caliber gun, it is following the same swamp rule. I laid out a .62 caliber barrel with those breech, muzzle, and length dimensions and it has a swamp that necks down to .8779 at 34.527 inches from the breech, or 12.723 from the muzzle.
Mike
-
Here are a few more detail shots of the completed restoration. Nothing is nearly as "glossy" as these appear - that's just my poor lighting and photography skills. I would draw your attention to two details in particular. 1: The lock plate is 100% untouched and that patina is original. That's one heck of a job of matching the added parts, eh? 2: I've been looking over many references and have yet to see any comparable shading lines where the scrolls meet towards the butt. Any thoughts or examples I have missed?
I've had her on my desk most of the day while I'm working these past few days since I picked her up. She's great eye candy! If anyone would like to see other shots, just holler.
(https://i.ibb.co/JFd0chD/Lock.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bR3q6fc)
That is a beautiful gun and a beautiful job of restoring her.
I am intrigued by the trigger. It appears to be a single set with the from adjusting screw. Do you have any photos of the trigger mechanism out of the stock. I wonder if it is like the Siddons English made design.
Mike
-
Mike, I think that’s the tang bolt, not a set screw.
-
There’s a lot to learn from that gun. It has thin and good looking lock panels.
-
Mike, Rich is correct, that protrusion is the end of the tang bolt. It's the bolt that came with the gun, looks original to it, so I just left it as is.
The trigger is a simple trigger, pinned in place.
And yes, there's a lot that could be learned from this one!
John
-
Kent,
What caliber is your Graeff? I'd like to see if it's following the same design.
Thanks,
Mike
Mike,
I believe it is .50 cal. The muzzle looks to be funneled and I can get a 1/2" wooden dowel down into the bore about 3/8" deep.
The measurements for the outside of the barrel across the flats and the transition up to the to the 1" dimension at the muzzle was difficult to determine. I would allow for a pretty good tolerance.
Kent
-
I would like to ask you what kind of glue you used in this reconstruction. My brother and me have brought 5 or six rifles back from the dead, all SMR. Glue is the main part of reconstruction on wood. I look forward to your kind reply.
-
I would like to ask you what kind of glue you used in this reconstruction. My brother and me have brought 5 or six rifles back from the dead, all SMR. Glue is the main part of reconstruction on wood. I look forward to your kind reply.
Shortbarrel, for you, and other guys that might want to give this stuff a try, That would be Titebond III. Some time ago I did a test with several popular glues, and Titebond III won hands down. I use it for areas where you'll need some time to align the pieces and get them clamped in place. For smaller pieces where you can hold them by hand, I use a super glue made by StewMac. It comes in colors and Medium Amber is a good one for these old guns. It too is tougher than nails, and the wood will break before the glue bond breaks.
You are probably aware, but for anyone just starting to do this sort of thing, for any glue joint with these old woods, it is imperative that you clean the area to be glued really well. Clean/scrape the discolored surface off, as well as the pulpy wood, if any. Then use a sharp object to score the old wood to give the glue a solid area to adhere too. I don't want things to break apart down the road, so I score the new wood as well. Where you don't want to score it is right at the edge of the glue joint! You want that joint to be as tight and narrow as possible, and the glue line as small as possible.
In the end, to make a good glue joint, make it as narrow as possible! No matter the joint, I try for a gap of no larger than .005". Zero is better, but not always possible.
John
If you glue it like this, be well aware that undoing this glue joint is going to be next to impossible, so be sure you have the pieces exactly where you want them!
-
John,
Thanks so much for posting this. I’d love to see pictures you have of the progression of repair to the lock an tang area.
I wouldn’t know where to start.
Much appreciated,
Jeff
-
Jeff,
PM sent.
John
-
John I think this is one of the most interesting, impressive, inspirational, and educational posts I've ever seen on this forum. I'm not a true "old timer" here so there may be more - but the work you did, photographing the progress, sharing it here, and of course the final result - WOW!!!! You are a talented man for sure. Are you looking for a mentor? : )
I've done some basic repair on muskets - simple fixes - but to see how you thought this complex project out - and executed it so well - and did such sympathetic historical work - just amazing.
The final "cherry on top" is the replies here on the builder Ferree - that original document!!
THANK YOU!!! for the posting and to all replies!!!
Brad
-
Thank you very much, Brad.
I very much enjoyed working on this gun. Ferree has always been a favorite maker of mine, so this was really icing on the cake for me!
The owner, Brian, was really great to work with, with many emails back and forth as things progressed, and pictures showing him what had been done.
There's also several other guys in the background, mostly KRA guys, that I talked to regarding this and that on the rifle, to try to make my work as period correct as possible.
So thank you, again, and all the other guys that have replied here as well. :)
John
-
I do believe there is a fine line between being involved and being a pest. I'm pretty sure I crossed that line into "pest" territory any number of times, but John was a real gentleman about it! :) For me, the learning and knowledge/experience exchange is half the fun and John's been a real inspiration. I now have my first restoration project in the shop/garage and if I can do half as good a job with it as he would I'll consider it a real triumph. That being said, I'm more than happy to provide detail photos, measurements, etc. of the Ferree rifle to interested parties. However, John can provide insight into the technical hows and whys of the resurrection effort much more so than I can.
-
Jeff,
PM sent.
John
Okay Jeff, and others that expressed an interest, the owner says to go ahead and post up the pictures!
Now, I've never done this before so I didn't take pictures with posting every step of the work in mind. I do have enough to show the general work progression though.
When looking at them, please keep in mind that these are pictures of work in progress! If things don't look exactly as they do in the finished picture don't worry about it, as the pictures are work in progress.
All together, for the tang area repair, I have 16 pictures, so will lay them out four at a time. I do show a finished picture at the end.
To start, here's pics showing what there was to start with. The last picture shows the broken out raised carving along side the tang.
(https://i.ibb.co/1sPrY2m/1-To-Start.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Q8TP7mK) (https://i.ibb.co/pwjbF57/2-The-wood.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3dm4ZQ3)
(https://i.ibb.co/k5WgPfN/3-From-the-top.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ydbnx1H) (https://i.ibb.co/CKmhtnj/4-Tang-carving-from-top.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MkZMhRz)
-
This next set shows the wood replacement for the piece along side the tang. I know the piece to be added in, looks really big. I actually like doing it that way as it makes it easier to get it into place with the glue, then do the modeling once the glue is set.
These three pictures show the progression from start to basically complete. Complete, but not completely finished! Still a work in progress.
(https://i.ibb.co/bQ8L8pB/5-Tang-carving-prepped-with-new-piece.jpg) (https://ibb.co/djz6zn2) (https://i.ibb.co/9NSJM65/6-New-wood-glued-in-place.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nbtTW9J) (https://i.ibb.co/QcQs8q2/7-New-wood-primary-shaping.jpg) (https://ibb.co/yRPLhMw)
-
This next set is the start to replace the wood missing on the lock side. To start, I picked the best angle to include as much of the area as possible to sand flat. Yes, I guess you could try to precisely inlet the new wood to all the splintered busted up area on the stock, but if I did, I would no doubt still be working on that area! To me, sanding it flat results in the smallest glue line and that's what I try for.
As you can see in the first picture, once sanded flat, I score the old wood to give the glue a good adhesion surface. And I do the same on the new wood.
On the second picture I've glued in a short bit of wood. A piece of wood was broken out under the area where the tang sits, so this small piece is to repair that area.
The third picture is the Chunk to be glued on the restore the missing wood between the lock and the tang area. When doing big areas like this, it's important to match the new woods grain direction and strip orientation to the original wood!
The 4th picture shows the Chunk glued in place and trimmed down a bit.
(https://i.ibb.co/58FKGJL/8-Replacing-wood-on-lock-side.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tsXLQ1D) (https://i.ibb.co/fnmT8fr/9-Wood-added-under-tang.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TbzNK6P)
(https://i.ibb.co/QYPyyFs/10-The-Chunk.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kq4NNgY) (https://i.ibb.co/R2wK2cw/11-Whittling-down-the-Chunk.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F6T16zT)
-
The first picture in this one shows the initial fit of the lock to the new wood. Still a lot of wood to remove in this pic, but getting there.
The next picture shows the new wood mostly shaped and fitted to the original wood. Adding the new wood to the old is touchy; you need to get the level and contour of the new wood pretty much exact as the old, but don't want to touch the old wood/finish with your tools any more than possible. This picture also shows the start of the carving.
The third pic shows the initial carving pretty well started and defined.
The fourth picture is with the lock in place. Again, a picture in progress and not the final result!
(https://i.ibb.co/fdC3Hhf/12-Initial-lock-fitting.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pj3Hdtc) (https://i.ibb.co/nCzV4fh/13-laying-out-the-carving.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rs4LqMn)
(https://i.ibb.co/FVSswb8/14-Basic-carving-Still-rough.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KwMNqjV) (https://i.ibb.co/6Rq0NNX/15-Basic-carving-still-rough-with-lock-in-place.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1f4Gbbz)
-
And finally, Finished!
Keep in mind everything I did on this rifle was done in a way to try to match the existing original work as best as possible. For instance, Ferrees' carving wasn't exact and perfect in this area, plus its worn and beat up. I tried to match mine to his a best as possible.
If you have any questions or comments, I'm happy to answer.
If you'd like to see more of the work I did on this rifle, the owner says go for it and post them up.
John
(https://i.ibb.co/BTFHPpx/16-Finished.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nQtq0Gv)
-
John,
I am truly amazed. Thanks to the owner for letting us see these photos and to you for your skill. You aren't descended from Merlin, are you?
There is always one guy who wants to see more, and that guy is me. Do you have a photo of the bottom of the barrel near the breech? What I am particularly interested in seeing is the clearance cut. if any, for the front lock bolt.
Kent
-
John - thanks for posting these new pics. Very interesting. Would love to see any more that your have.
-
LOVED seeing the process pictures, thanks!
-
John,
Thanks so much for your extra efforts on our behalf, reaching out to the owner, and to the owner himself for giving us a peek behind the curtain.
Fascinating… and great results!
Jeff
-
Thank you guys for looking, and the kind comments!
Kent, there isn't a cutout for the front screw on this barrel. Having one is very common, but not always.
-
Thanks John appreciate your observations as always.
Kent