AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Accoutrements => Topic started by: Jennison on September 15, 2022, 11:12:20 PM
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Hello: I saw this powder horn in a central Mass. shop. The dealer tells me the horn dates to about 1820-30 and was from an estate in Massachusetts. Could someone possibly tell me if this looks like a typical New England powder horn from that period? I know little about these accoutrements.
Many thanks, Jennison
(https://i.ibb.co/PQS6Y9y/powderhorn1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/L5GZPJy)
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This appears to be a pretty generic or standard type of horn of the 1800s for the whole country. It is a great piece and is in super condition. Color is quite nice. The NE horn style usually has a flat pine butt plug and a faceted jacket or spout. Thank you for showing it here. Nice find.
Dick
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Dick's comments are on the money. I'd guess this might be a Midwest powder horn. Looks like you have some nice carving on that horn, basal scallops, a hunting dog, etc. Since hard to see, can you describe all the carved figures on your horn; it will help locate the horn. Any way to photograph horn in softer light [no glare] so carving shows up better? It's really a great little horn. I tried to bring carving of dog up a little in your photo and stuck on below; hope you don't mind.
Shelby Gallien
(https://i.ibb.co/SBRg3k1/powderhornxxxx-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hVDNmGn)
(https://i.ibb.co/Y7Dt0H8/powderhornxxxx-5.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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Thank you for the kind compliments, but I don’t actually own the horn and the photo was sent to me by the dealer after I saw it. I didn’t notice the dog.... It’s since been sold. I’m glad you think it’s from the Midwest, because I’d wanted a simple, unadorned, New England horn; as such, I didn’t lose out. So I should be on the lookout for a flat-plugged, faceted spout horn? I want one I can put to use.
Thanks again!
Jennison
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New England horns usually have a flat plug made of soft wood, usually pine, with relatively wide annular rings in wood compared to hard wood plugs. While not all New England horns have faceted spout tips [and at times a faceted spout throat below the tip], if you want to make sure [well, as sure as you can] it's a N.E. horn, get one with at least a faceted spout tip. Like most horns, as they got late into the percussion era, even some of the N.E. details began to fade away, with horns becoming very generic looking... but N.E. horns usually retained their soft wood plugs to the very end.
Shelby Gallien
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Thanks very much for the enlightenment! I’ll be back when I find one.
Jennison
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Here’s one that is probably a NE horn.
(https://i.ibb.co/yV4xnrS/E0818-A6-B-11-AD-4029-B1-DB-33-BF9-B6-BF541.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nRPKsFC)
(https://i.ibb.co/XVbsQJT/77-A5-D26-B-908-E-4-E58-9-E84-6519407-EA34-F.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1bLqg2x)
(https://i.ibb.co/TvwDHX1/22-ED1-E19-CD45-48-BC-A1-A9-86-EACCCCF9-C3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/j689LKz)
(https://i.ibb.co/TKj754L/3335-BFAB-033-E-47-D3-8-B5-E-72-CFFBFFC4-A9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tZjv5qX)
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That’s very cool! Did you find it in Vermont?
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Could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time, or the last), but this is one that I have that I think meets the criteria for a NE horn. Pictures aren't the best but gives you an idea. Has some damage at the tip and at the base plus a little bug damage. Has a BIG opening at the spout which leads me to think it may have been used with a fowler or musket. No idea of the age.
(https://i.ibb.co/qMfsqsb/thumbnail-20220917-153221.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Y7Mknkv)
(https://i.ibb.co/Xynw1y8/thumbnail-20220917-153239.jpg) (https://ibb.co/s5TBn5H)
(https://i.ibb.co/SNPgzq7/thumbnail-20220917-153253.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PxNydBz)
(https://i.ibb.co/b1kwq82/thumbnail-20220917-153308.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Zd04tkY)
(https://i.ibb.co/8Bbm8Zw/thumbnail-20220917-153321.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Ct6w0Gy)
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I bought this horn yesterday for $65. Seller got it from a show in Southern Vermont. Does this look more like a classic later New England horn? Thanks, Jennison
(https://i.ibb.co/R4YmycN/D02-D82-F1-B92-A-4390-BEE5-890-C2-EBB2-B08.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1J756TM)
(https://i.ibb.co/LP8v9ns/ACEFDBFE-4120-42-C0-9-D2-A-A48356-FC826-D.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vBHDLZM)
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Also, is it considered acceptable to gently put an antique horn back into use?
Jennison.
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If you look closely at the butt you may see where there was a staple at one time. I would remove the screw and see if it is hand or machine made but it could have been added long into its life. The small faceted tip could signal a N.E. style, can you tell what the wood is, is it heavy grained or fine, hard to tell by the Pix. I don't see a problem with putting them back into use. Nice find.
Tim C.
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Thank you. On another note, I have a horn am am reasonably certain is from Vermont, but it’s missing its base plug. Can someone recommend a person who can tastefully restore a flat pine plug with a staple for me? Many thanks.
Jennison
(https://i.ibb.co/rMnjSnd/A40277-E0-F716-4012-AD6-C-5654792-D2657.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WFShwSV)
(https://i.ibb.co/WtDCgF9/84-AD4756-4441-4721-A926-31269313-B1-F4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8czk623)
(https://i.ibb.co/s1t2R0d/D2469-D81-A0-ED-434-C-9-F63-B8566187-B625.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xg3DLpt)
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If you can get Tim Crosby on this site to stop building powder horns for a few minutes, maybe you can get him to make a quality plug for you.
Shelby Gallien
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PM sent, shouldn't be a problem. Thanks Shelby.
Tim
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I second everything above. Also, your horn looks a bit 'bleached' on the surface so you might ask Tim to color it up a bit. There may be some good color hiding beneath the surface. A good coat of wax might be all that is needed to improve the look and to give some measure of protection. It is a nice horn; thank you for showing it here to the assembled multitude of horn nuts.
Dick
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I will add to that. Tim can bring it back to life. Jim
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Thanks to all! I’m in contact with Tim. You sure are a nice bunch.
Jennison
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Just wondering... if you "bring a horn back to life," does that mean it walks away on a cow's head?
Shelby Gallien
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I certainly hope not....
Jennison
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I second everything above. Also, your horn looks a bit 'bleached' on the surface so you might ask Tim to color it up a bit. There may be some good color hiding beneath the surface. A good coat of wax might be all that is needed to improve the look and to give some measure of protection. It is a nice horn; thank you for showing it here to the assembled multitude of horn nuts.
Dick
i was thinking along those lines, I'll get a better feel for it when I have it in hand. One thing I'm wondering is to fit a flat or slightly rounded butt.
Tim
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Since Vermont horns are "slightly different" at times, as seen in the above average-spout on this horn, perhaps a low, faceted plug would look good.
Shelby Gallien
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I have an original New England (Mass) horn. It is simple as yours is. The base plug is flat with a date carved into the plug. The spout is round, not fluted. It was given to me when I was in the fourth grade along with some cast iron toy fire engines. Had no idea then how special the horn was. Still enjoy them all.
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Thank you. On another note, I have a horn am am reasonably certain is from Vermont, but it’s missing its base plug. Can someone recommend a person who can tastefully restore a flat pine plug with a staple for me? Many thanks.
Jennison
(https://i.ibb.co/rMnjSnd/A40277-E0-F716-4012-AD6-C-5654792-D2657.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WFShwSV)
(https://i.ibb.co/WtDCgF9/84-AD4756-4441-4721-A926-31269313-B1-F4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8czk623)
(https://i.ibb.co/s1t2R0d/D2469-D81-A0-ED-434-C-9-F63-B8566187-B625.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xg3DLpt)
Mike decided he wanted to go with a flat base plug. Here it is with a new plug and brightened up a bit. I also put a couple of little patches on the inside of the bug bites.
Tim
(https://i.ibb.co/gZhV3cd/IMG-1312-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/v4RYHMh)
(https://i.ibb.co/QQ1yS2j/IMG-1313-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DWS0cxg)
(https://i.ibb.co/Rz9xC5R/IMG-1314-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZWVnhZq)
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Nice horn and nice repair work. I really like the shaping of the spout.
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Great restoration, Tim! Horn is beautiful now. Color is full and deep just as it should look and has that old look to it. Great job! Now Jennison can admire it, treasure it and even use it. Thank you for posting the photos, as well.
Dick