AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: yip on November 03, 2009, 03:26:53 AM
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does anyone know how to make a good black powder solvent ? there has to be a good recipe out there!
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Water is a very good black powder solvent.
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Mike Venturino recommended one for BPC. Use 1 bottle of Amonia free Windex/vinegar to a gallon of water. I tried the "natural" type and added vinegar. It works, whether better than water ???.
DP
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1 Quart of water with 3 drops of dishwasher detergent, like Dawn. All it does is make the water wetter, and does a fine job. I some times use just plain windshield washer solvent, which is about 80% water with some soap, and 20% alcohol. Spend your money on Powder, patch, and Ball, or gun parts.
Bill
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Water is the best recipe I've found. It ya feels ya gots to add something to it to make a "mix" just add a drop or two of Dawn to a 1/2 gallon of water.
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Terry,
Here is the method I have been using for a while now. This is a quote from the man who is a rifle builder, and reccommends this method to all his customers. I have never cleaned my gun so quickly. No more water, and buckets for me!
"Guys and gals,
there's no reason to neglect a good muzzle loader. In fact, they are very easy to clean. I mix 3 parts Rubbing alcohol, 2 parts Hydrogen Peroxide and one part Murphy's Oil Soap as my cleaning solution
For a cap-lock, put a piece of leather or rubber over the nipple and lower the hammer to hold it.
For flinters, stick a tooth pick into the flash hold and close the frizzen to hold it.
Now, pour some of this "3-2-1 mix" into the bore. Enough to fill about 1" of the bore. Stick your finger over the muzzle, and slosh and rotate the gun so the mix totally washes over all the inside. Pour it out. Repeat the same process one more time
Now, for a flinter. pull out the tooth pick and let the gun stand on it's muzzle about 30 seconds or a minute. Uncover the nipple on a cap lock and do the same.
After it drains take soft absorbent cloth and dry the bore. On a cap-lock, remove the nipple and scrub out the flash channel or drum with pipe cleaners too.
Lube the bore (and the nipple threads if it's a cap lock, before you replace the nipple) and you are done
I can clean my flinter faster then I can clean my M-98 Mauser 270 Winchester.
Try it."
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Keep in mind that peroxide is an oxidizer and just by itself can cause rusting. Most peroxide sold is normally a 2% or 3% solution, with the other percentage being water. I have read a couple of reports of this stuff causing a glass container to explode due to pressure buildup, so if you insist on using it, make sure to not keep it tightly capped.
Everyone seems to have their own favorite formula for cleaning that, in their mind outperforms all others. I have tried quite a few different solvents with about the same results from most all, but now mostly use windshield washer fluid. It is cheap and it works. What more can you ask?
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I've had great results with Simple Green cleaner used straight from the spray bottle or mixed 50/50 with water from the concentrate.
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I mix plain rubbing alcohol about six to one with oil soap. My gonnes are clean and not rusty with a good shot of WD-40 after cleaning. Thirty years of experience involved here.
volatpluvia
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Oh yeah, nate,
I forgot about that stuff. It works really great on complicated locks like wheellocks.
volatpluvia
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Keep in mind that peroxide is an oxidizer and just by itself can cause rusting. Most peroxide sold is normally a 2% or 3% solution, with the other percentage being water. I have read a couple of reports of this stuff causing a glass container to explode due to pressure buildup, so if you insist on using it, make sure to not keep it tightly capped.
Everyone seems to have their own favorite formula for cleaning that, in their mind outperforms all others. I have tried quite a few different solvents with about the same results from most all, but now mostly use windshield washer fluid. It is cheap and it works. What more can you ask?
That is right peroxide is an oxidizer "by itself". I would never use straight peroxide in my barrel, but mixed as stated works wonderful, and is cheap as well.
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Plain ol water.......If I feel like getting fancy, I mix 80% water and 20% simple green and then only because it makes a decent hand cleaner and tells you where all your minor hand cuts are! Oh yes, and then the other shooters think you know what your doing! :D
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Water.....
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I've used straight rubbing alcohol for years. That alone could rust one but I don't use it that I don't give the bore a good hosing down with ballistol when I'm done swabbing with the alcohol.
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does anyone know how to make a good black powder solvent ? there has to be a good recipe out there!
A little soap and a lot of water. I used to use Windex with vinegar mixed 3 parts water 1 part cleaner. Worked wonderfully. But they have gone "Green" and I think they now have too much vinegar.
The plain old blue window cleaner works well too mixed. A mix of windshield washer fluid works well too.
A lot of soap in not needed. Jut enough to make the water a little wetter. I use oil for patch lube so I like something that has a little soap in it.
Excess soap, like too much dishwashing liquid produces too much subs. A drop or two in a quart of water is plenty. This the advantage of low foaming cleaners cut with water. The suds are a PITA.
Anything with any soap in it needs a clean water rinse to remove the soap.
Anything more than this is just over thinking the problem. BP fouling sucks up water like a sponge and will liquifiy. Add all sorts of other ingredients, water soluble oil, petroleum distillate etc etc just gets in the way and may actually increase cleaning difficulty.
I wipe mostly dry then dose heavily with WD40 or some other water displacing product. Being sure to shoot some through the vent with the muzzle down. Wipe with one patch then set muzzle down while I clean the lock. Dry patch a time or two then a wet patch with a good protectant gun oil.
Dry patches as the bore dries that come out black are often black iron oxide. If you allow the patches to dry for a few hours this will convert to red iron oxide and the patches are rusty looking. BP fouling will stay black or grey is the humidity is low enough. Trying to get all the black out is virtually impossible if its iron oxide off the barrel itself.
Simple green at high concentrations it hard on some traditional stock finishes.
Dan
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I have never seen one of those negative reports always attributed to that peroxide/alcohol/oil soap mixture, which I have made and used for a great many years. Would someone be so kind as to post one?
Not flash rusting now, the explosive circumstances. Certainly this is an item that could be definitively resolved here with our cumulative first-hand knowledges.
I note that the peroxide, the alcohol and the soap all come tightly capped, with never a sign of leakage of contents that I have seen, and I certainly cap the mason jar I store my mix in with a canning lid and ring tight enough so the mix can be stored on it's side without leaking.
Lon
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I find the water that comes out of the tap to clean quite well enough - getting close to 40 years of straight water cleaning now. I do mix a bit of soap in if I've used an oil based patch lube, but find even that isn't necessary. I don't like store-bought solvents for my black powder guns - and see no need or reason to mix concoctions for them either. I actually only use solvents in the modern guns and make do with 6 different ones, depending on what I'm cleaning and how many shots were fired before cleaning. Black powder fouling dissolves so nicely with straight water, and since the only fouling buildup is in the 'powder chamber' area with a single shot's fouling in the bore, cleaning is a easy and fast.(water dunk/flush method). It takes only 6 patches to do a perfect job, leaving a bore that leaves NO marks on a patch wet with water or oil afterwards. Of course, if a water wet patch is put down the bore after cleaning, drying then WD40'ing has to be done again. With ambient humidity around 50%, WD40 is the only oil needed for preserving the bore until next time. If it doesn't work, the bore was not cleaned with the flush, then dry, then WD40 flush, method. Works for me.
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Don't know if I didn't get mine clean enough with the water or what, but shot it about a month ago, flushed and swabbed several times with H2O, dried with patches, swabbed and sprayed with WD40, leaned against basement wall. Last weekend checked it and light rust all the way down the bore, swabbed it real good with Ballistol. I will continue to use WD40 as a water displacement, but it is not a good rust preventative for my basement and my location, in the mountains of NC. Think I might try Eezox as a final treatment next time, but will continue to flush with water in the never ending saga of cleaning out blackpowder (ain't it fun though!).
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I've always used the three component mixture I noted above because I've always shot a musket too, thus having a good homemade grease available for patches. Water, or water with a few drops of elixir, just won't cut tallow/BW. I figured If that bore and flash channel was clean, WD-40 would preserve it and it has for me. Lon
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Weird how WD40 works so well for some and not for others, I was shooting with Bore Butter, so maybe that had something to do with it. I will be switching to Mink Oil I recently got from TOW and trying some of the other lubes recommended on here as well, bought some original formula GOJO too.
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If I might make an observation, perhaps it may explain why one system works perfectly for one shooter, and is a disappointment for another. It concerns the tightness of the patch and jag in the bore.
It is plain to me that there are many who will or can not use a tight patch ball combo in their rifles. So it stands to reason that they are likely using a jag/cleaning patch combo that is also not tight. If you don't compress the cloth fully into the grooves, it is not going to clean down to the steel, is it? Just running a wet patch up and down isn't going to do the job. I have to use considerable determination and strength to get my rifles clean, because of the tightness of the jag /patch in the bore.
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That is a very good point! When I made the cleaning jag for my rifle I turned it so it fit snuggly in the bore with 2 patches. I felt I needed the extra material to compress, and expand into the bottom, and sides of the rifleing. Then this all depends on the material you use for cleaning. I guess I have a custom cleaning jag for the material I use.
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Taylor,
Guilty as charged, I was not using a tight set up for cleaning or shooting. After reading advice on here about shooting tips, I ordered some thicker patches and planned to use them next shooting session, but had not considered that for cleaning too, duh! I will heed your advice and hopefully that fixes the problem, makes me mad to see rust in my almost new Getz barrel!
Thanks,
James
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I don't use a cleaning jag. I cut an oval hole near the end of a hickory rod and pull a large patch thru it. I pull the patch around the end of the rod and twist it so it will fit down the bore in front of the rod. This cleans the breech face better than a jag. I use cold water with a little dish washing detergent. I then oil the bore with any kind of gun oil that is a rust preventative. I make sure the patch is large enough to fit pretty tight in the bore.
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like these....? I make my rods from splits and plane a slight "swell" on the end. I do use a small patch.
R
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi36.tinypic.com%2Fawrcpk.jpg&hash=92ce91099b434bfb2485f293b6a8023f7d6315bf)
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I don't use a cleaning jag. I cut an oval hole near the end of a hickory rod and pull a large patch thru it. I pull the patch around the end of the rod and twist it so it will fit down the bore in front of the rod. This cleans the breech face better than a jag. I use cold water with a little dish washing detergent. I then oil the bore with any kind of gun oil that is a rust preventative. I make sure the patch is large enough to fit pretty tight in the bore.
I do the same thing but use a "worm" on a metal or wood rod.
But if flushed properly there is little to clean in this manner if breeched tight.
I use a shotgun mop with the wire trimmed to get into non-hooked patent breeches. But if well flushed this does not seem to find a lot of fouling either.
Dan
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It sounds reasonable to me that if you tight patch to clean and use something that really gets the grease/oil/wax/smut out when cleaning, and you dance with the possibility of flash rusting if you dither doing that, then you must have a good rust preventative ready to apply effectively to all the surfaces involved. Lon
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Lon - I've not had any flash rusting since I stopped using hot water. I use cold water only. After flushing the bore, I lean the barrel against the wall muzzle down to drain, then toothbrush the lock clean in the bucket of water. After the lock is clean, I set it down, pick up the barrel and run patches into it until dry, then spray liberally with WD40, then patch that up and down a few times, then wipe the outside with that oiled patch. I then pickup the lock, wipe it with a dry rag of towel, blow in the 'innards' and between cock and plate to push out moisture, re-wipe, then spray hard with WD40, and set it down. If inside, I spray it over the garbage can as the WW40 flows off the lock in a stream pushing the moisture with it - I use a lot of it and have never had any rust at any time during cleaning or afterwards.
I have seen guys lightly dribble some 'oil' on a patch after cleaning and drying their guns at Hefley Creek Rondy - not me - if it isn't flowing freely, it isn't removing the moisture. It's gotta run.
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What are the negatives or dangers of using rubbing alcohol? Does it deteriorate the metal, induce rusting, not clean well, damage wood finish or just not necessary? I am using cold water as advised by you more experienced shooters, but just wondering.
Also, do you have a preference as to what brand or style of jags to use? Are some better than others? I am getting ready to order some to get that tight fit suggested for cleaning.
Thanks,
James
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How about cheap windshield washer??? Sure has served me well for years.
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Rubbing alcohol in the drugstores nowadays contains 10 to 30 pct water, so attention to detail in drying the bore is still important. And, I would expect alcohol to pose more of a risk to the wood finish than plain water. At least, I've noticed less streaking near the tang and wrist area since I started paying more attention to stopping up the vent, wrapping a paper towel around the lock area to catch drips, and using plain water instead of windshield washer fluid/alcohol/murphyoilperoxidealcohol/etc.
I'm going to file a minority opinion on the tight-fitting-cleaning-jag debate. If the patch & jag are really really tight going down, you're going to push all the fouling down to the breech as the jag goes down. I like the idea of a loose patch/jag going down that catches and bunches up the patch as you withdraw it and pulls the fouling out towards the muzzle. Also, if the patch and jag is very tight, seems like that means the patch fabric would be so compressed it's absorbency would be greatly reduced. That said, I know several folks who aren't happy unless there's a loud vacuum 'POP' when the jag and patch clear the muzzle. Maybe I just got tired of having the patch sucked off the jag and back down the bore where I had to retrieve it with a worm.
Anybody ever tried a 'Spin Jag' (www.spinjag.com)? Looks like it might work, but they're about $20 a pop.
SCL
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The only time a patch got sucked of the jag and pulled back into the bore or slipped off the jag in the bore at the bottom was when the patch was too thin. Also, I don't pull it out of the bore quickly, as then one has to get it lined back up again to push back down. I pull the rod up until 1/2 the cleaning patch shows, with the main part of the jag still in the bore, then push it hard, down to the bottom, up, down, up, down pulling water in to the top of the stroke, you can feel a bump when it hits the jag, then flush it back down, forceing all the $#@* out the vent.
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With the solvent I use most of the fouling is dumped out after the first short soaking. It is amazing all the little black chunks that come out that the solvent breaks up. The most impressive way to see how this solvent works is when you pour the formula on your lock. It only takes seconds and you see the fouling lift off in little sheets. Read the ingredients again, they are not telling you to use any item full strength. All parts are diluted by one another. If you would try it you would like it!
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Don't know how many do this but I use a hair dryer on my guns and locks after dry patching to get them bone dry. When my 35 year old hair dryer died I went to the Salvation Army Thrift Store and picked up another for $3. Works!