AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: smart dog on November 17, 2022, 02:43:15 AM
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Hi,
Lots of stuff happening this winter. I have an apprentice, Maria Gray. She is a local high school senior who is greatly focused on history. She is a member of Herrick's Vermont Rangers and Warner's Green Mountain Boys. She intends to major in history in college. Maria is extremely smart and a lightning quick study. She wrote a grant proposal to her school for a senior project making a flintlock gun and learning the history of their manufacture. The school system in Bethel, VT awarded her $1000 for the project. Maria is the second high school student supported by their schools (different school systems) to work with me to build historical guns. I am informed that more are coming. Maria and I dug deeply into the history of arms carried by those units. It was clear that many carried muskets, including the long land pattern Brown Bess but also civilian fowlers. The fowler fit Maria better because she wants to use it for reenacting but also for hunting. She is tall and needs quite a bit of drop in the stock such that the muskets would be horrible guns for her. I showed her a range of examples of fowlers available to 18th century New Englanders and she chose an English export fowler (not a trade gun, which seems to obsess so many who think colonists only carried old muskets, rifles, and trade guns, a terrible distortion of reality). So we are making a good quality English export fowler based on my work and a gun restored by Jim Kibler that I own. The lock will be a Chambers round-faced English lock, the barrel will be a 20 gauge Rice Dolep barrel, the stock is a nice piece of English walnut that I bought from Jim Kibler some years ago. We have not decided on whether the mounts will be brass or iron (steel). I have a Fabulous iron plate forged by Ian Pratt, which is a possibility. This will be fun and I will post updates as we proceed. Here are our preliminary drawings but we have to add more drop. They are tracings of original 1760s fowlers that I own.
(https://i.ibb.co/tz6dPRd/drawing-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2SrbYJb)
(https://i.ibb.co/jGhZgSV/drawing-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hHs1DSX)
(https://i.ibb.co/tQKyq8t/drawing-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vVq23ZG)
Maria really gets into the 18th century. She has my copies of Grinslade's "Fowlers", John George's "English Guns and Rifles", Dixon's "The Art of Making the Pennsylvania Longrifle" , my working copy of Neal and Back's "Great British Gunmakers 1740-1790", and papers by DeWitt Bailey and Joe Puleo on the Wilson family and Ketland family of gunmakers; respectively. She enjoys reading by candle light. I advised her to freeze the candles first and they will last longer.
(https://i.ibb.co/qnrNMqN/reading-Dixon.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dc5P0CP)
dave
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sounds like you are off to another great project, with another great student..those who get to work with you are extremely lucky .
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Neat project! I'm going to guess ideally she could use a lot of drop for the shoulder but at the same time needs height on the comb at the cheek area?
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Hi James,
Yep. You have it exactly and I may need your help.
dave
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It’s so refreshing to hear about any youngster immersing themselves into History like you described. Kudos to you for mentoring and furthering interest in what many believe is a dying avocation, hobby, or whatever one might call the passion. I’ve been into the shooting sports since I could walk and remember hearing (even way, way back then) that “our youngsters are the key to the survival of this lifestyle”. Truer words have never been spoken.
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Thank you for your efforts in promoting the history and the sport of muzzleloading.
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What an excellent project, Dave.
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Dave,
I like the lines of that gun already!
It just looks right.
So pleased you are doing this!!
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Dave,
On 8 July 2018 I walked into an Aldi's grocery store here and want thru the only check out line that was open.On that day a very beautiful young woman who has a Masters Degree in American History came into my life and now owns my collection of military history pertaining to WW2.
I told her about living in Chicago in a German neighborhood in that time and of meeting former German military people including a man who had been on the Bismarck and was able to get off of it as one of a few that did and a tank commander that had been in Russia and survived..Her name is Amanda Beam and she is teaching in the 8th grade.She is interested in our muzzle loading activities and wants to get to a CLA Show.She also has seen pictures of some of my work making English style locks and was fascinated by them and had no idea anyone was doing such work here or anywhere.I hope your young friend is as willing a student as Amanda is to me.She is now 32.
Bob Roller
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Wow! That’s really Cool 😎. Yes, please keep us updated
Anthony
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What a special undertaking ! Rootin' for you and Maria to get this project worked out to perfection.
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Hi,
Thanks everyone. This will be fun and we will turn out a good gun in the end. The big difference with Maria, is she wants to know everything. She doesn't want a kit. She wants to work from a blank, learn woodworking, metalworking, engraving, welding, the whole thing plus the details of history relevant to her gun. She wants to learn about the British gun trade as well as the colonial trade. She is ambitious and dedicated. Anyway, the project will move forward slowly at first because we still need the barrel. Jason Schneider is making one for her and we will work on history, design, and some of the metal work until the barrel arrives.
Richard, that stock design should look right because it comes right off an original gun.
dave
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Sounds like a fun project. Looking forward to seeing the progress.
Jeff
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Sounds like a great project! Let her know that a bunch of ALR members are ready to cheer her on through the process. :D
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Another great project, Dave.
Bob
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Very cool!
sometime when she's bored or waiting on parts, have her look up "Grime's Graves Norfolk". just one more part of the English gun trade. Most of the old houses around there (200-400 years old), and the roads and almost all concrete, were made using flint scraps from the mines. Interesting when an errant dart skitters across the back patio.
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Best wishes to you both in this wonderful project! It will be a topic to certainly follow. You are doing such great things :)
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Hi Guys,
Thank you all but this is not about me. Just like my project with Josh, who was blind. I am just the vehicle and they are the story. Thank you for complimenting me but they came to me to achieve their ambitions. I am just helping that along and providing the skills and knowledge to make it happen. It is their ambitions. That is the story.
dave
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Ahh, but, you are willing and able to assist them in accomplishing their dreams.
That's on you, Dave. Well done.
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From my experience, when a woman learns to do metal working of any kind, she is usually far better than a man is at it.
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It is so refreshing to read this type of story about a young person with the drive to pursue their interests, and the willingness to work for it. Wish her fabulous success.
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THIS is what ALR is all about! Thanks for sharing Dave!
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I like the stock profile. Looks real nice to my eye.
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It really looks good Jim!
Dave,
Looking at your drawing in the opening post made me wonder if a library of original stock profiles would be of value to the community?
We have quite a few here wishing to create a Longrifle or English sporting gun who do not have access to originals.
If we could garner outlines for folk to use, it would go a Long way to getting those interested on the right track.
To be honest, we see a good few guns made that are Very well fitted, but the lines are a little off. This could be a great resource to help eleviate that problem.
Just thinking out loud...
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Hi Richard,
That is a great idea! James Rogers, you, Jim Kibler, me and quite a few others have originals that could be traced and photographed. Long rifle makers have excellent resources in the CDs compiled by KRA as well as books. However, there isn't anything similar for British guns from the same period. I suggest we start with British guns and see how it goes. An issue is that the digital profiles have to be scalable so measurements or a scale have to be included with each one. I will do this for guns I have and create a thread in "Miscellaneous Tutorials" as a trial balloon. We can add to it later if folks are willing to share.
dave
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What a wonderful resource.
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Hi,
Thanks everyone for your support and encouragement. Maria told me she dropped off the basketball team this winter so she can spend more time on this project and she will skip choir. She says being a senior, she can do that and the project is her priority. So after Thanksgiving, we are going to start on a schedule despite not having the barrel yet. There is much to do. I need to get her started developing her tool skills for wood and metal. We will also cover history and design. I am also going to introduce her to hammer and chisel engraving and historical English designs. We also may design and cast the wrist plate for the gun and make components so that when the barrel arrives, we can move forward quickly.
Jim Kibler, I am glad you like the fowler design. It is very much influenced by the great gun you restored and sold me years ago. That gun is so appropriate because it represents the kind of gun many American colonists may have ordered from England. We focus way too much on trade guns and forget many colonists ordered good quality but very affordable sporting guns from England that were not cheap trade guns. The focus on trade guns is such a distortion of colonial reality.
dave
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I sure wish I could sit and watch the progress and process Dave!
Re the profiles,
I'd be on board. A complete clutz with computers, but could press-gang able bodies to do it !
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Taylor could profile his Lang against Keith's Purdy and my .69, then submit for a cap-lock profile(s). ;)
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I would be very interested in scalable profiles for stocks. This would be super helpful to get things right
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I might be tempted to make myself a Lang rifle if that happened, Daryl.
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It really looks good Jim!
Dave,
Looking at your drawing in the opening post made me wonder if a library of original stock profiles would be of value to the community?
We have quite a few here wishing to create a Longrifle or English sporting gun who do not have access to originals.
If we could garner outlines for folk to use, it would go a Long way to getting those interested on the right track.
To be honest, we see a good few guns made that are Very well fitted, but the lines are a little off. This could be a great resource to help eleviate that problem.
Just thinking out loud...
This would be fantastic for a lot of us who are trying to learn but don’t have an opportunity to see the real deal. Photos can only take you do far. I know it still isn’t the same but outlines may be easier to compare than photos, or help interpret the photos. And for building from scratch if would be indispensable. Sign me up.
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Dave, I look forward to following Maria and your exciting project. Having a creative story behind a build is a fun way to pursue this craft.
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Hi and thank you all for your supportive comments,
Maria and I got started on the actual work on the gun today. We are waiting on the barrel but there is a lot we can do in the meantime. Her interest is not just building the gun but understanding the history and context behind it. There is nothing I would rather hear than that. So for the first hour today, I showed her the presentation I made on making a mid-18th century English sporting gun at the Kempton Gunmakers Fair. I covered a brief history of the British gun trade from 1637 until 1800 and discussed the style changes that occurred during that period and why they happened. Then we went out to the shop and I demonstrated to her what makes a good flintlock.
(https://i.ibb.co/k1Ky8d7/taking-lock-apart.jpg) (https://ibb.co/X8X4swQ)
We covered all the components and their names both modern and old. She preferred the old names so a frizzen is a battery, frizzen spring is a feather spring, mainspring vise is a spring cramp, etc. Then we spent time looking at some very fine original and modern made locks and some lesser modern made locks to teach her what makes a good lock. In the process, I had a great teaching device. I had a Chambers round-faced English lock purchased last summer and one purchased some years ago. Both were identical except for one thing, the toe of the mainspring hook on the newer lock was right at the tip of the toe of the tumbler when the lock was at rest. At full cock, it was 2/3s of the way up the foot of the tumbler. On the older lock, the toe of the hook was part way up the foot of the tumbler at rest and then right at the corner of the tumbler at full cock. I had Maria measure the force to pull the flintcock back to half and then full cock on both locks. On the newer lock, it took 10 lbs pull to bring it to half cock and 10 lbs to bring it to full. On the older lock, it took 11 lbs to bring it to halfcock and just 8 lbs to bring it to full. That slight difference in the relation of the toe of the hook and its position on the tumbler made all the difference. Next we studied later locks with stirrup tumblers. We measured the forces needed to pull the flintcock back to half and then full cock on the new "Nock" lock and on an original English lock by Fields from the 1820s. On the Nock lock it took 8-9lbs to pull it back to half and 10 lbs to pull it back to full. On the original lock, it took 11 lbs to pull it back to half and 8 lbs to pull it back to full. Then I had Maria use calipers to measure the distance between the centers of the stirrup spindle held by the mainsprings and the centers of the tumbler spindles when the lock was at full cock. That distance was 0.28" for the "Nock" and 0.21" for the Fields original. That closer distance meant greater mechanical advantage. We then examined and measured a collection of modern and original locks including one from a pair of Wogdon pistols. She learned the lesson really well.
We also discussed other lock features and then I had her disassemble her Chambers lock and start working on polishing and tuning it.
(https://i.ibb.co/yW2txRf/tuning-lock-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2gJxp6n)
(https://i.ibb.co/KrGGhmW/tuning-lock-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TgTT2rt)
She is very happy doing this work and is a lightning quick study. She quit varsity basketball so she could work on this project. She is dedicated.
dave
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From the clock on the wall to the growing darkness outside the window at the workbench, it appears your student is very involved and focused on her work for several hours on in. That’s a great testament to to a good teacher as well, I would say. I think we are going to see a fine long gun at the end of this journey as well as a well-grounded young builder. Awesome!
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Dave,
You have already given her more insight than the average person gets, using originals and comparing to new locks.
First rate, and as Maria is a quick learner, she will be a fantastic student!
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Hello all (and of course, Dave),
I am (the apparently famous) Maria. Thank you all so much for the support. I had no idea so many people were already rooting for me.
Although Dave and I have only had a few work sessions I have already learned so much and continue to do so everytime I am in the shop or open one of the texts he has lent me.
As he stated I have dropped the varsity basketball team. This is a huge thing for me as a senior and my coach and teammates all think I am crazy for skipping my senior season for (and I quote a student) "a stupid project that's not going to get you anywhere in life." I am even cutting back on the time I spend on the back of my horse Jack for this project.
All of this seems like hard sacrifices to some but as many of you will undoubtedly understand this journey I am currently on of building my own English Fowler is something I will never forget and I will be gaining skills and knowledge many in this world are sadly lacking. So it may seem to be a sacrifice to drop basketball and riding, but I have never once regretted it and am truly excited for this project to continue.
While my uneducated peers may think this is a useless project, I know it is something I will never forget and will stick with me forever. I plan and hope to one day have at least half the skill and knowledge Dave does.
I couldn't be doing this without you, Dave. Thank you.
-Maria
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Following our passions keeps us alive, excited, motivated, thinking, and learning. To do what others want and expect us to do (other than our responsibilities) is a recipe for unhappiness.
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Maria, congrats on getting to learn from one of the best. You will not be sorry and what you learn will stay with you throughout life. Best of luck.
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Hi,
Maria came over today and was in full 18th century dress. She made it look good compared with the over fed middle aged reenactors out there who try to represent starved continentals. Anyway, we made her ramrod pipes today. During our previous session, I taught her about steel, brass, and silver alloys, and how to heat treat them. Today, she learned how to solder. We started by cutting out rectangles of mild steel sheet to make the pipes. In our case the forward pipe is 27/64" inside diameter, the middle pipe is 3/8" inside diameter, and the rear pipe is 5/16" in diameter. That is consistent with original English fowlers from this period. She cut the rectangles and then embossed raised ribs on the ends. We use the methods taught to me by Kit Ravenshear using a little plate with a groove filed into it and a cold chisel.
(https://i.ibb.co/QfDthGc/making-pipes-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HVh3RQ2)
(https://i.ibb.co/PYxt3kd/making-pipes-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/j5hHBtS)
We planned for 1/4" tabs on each side of the pipes for the pins. She formed those tabs next.
(https://i.ibb.co/5kt8tpn/making-pipes-5.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
I had to tell her "whomp that pipe, don't give it a love tap. She whacked it accordingly.
(https://i.ibb.co/S7bFzZT/making-pipes-6.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
After forming the tabs, we cleaned them up with files and sandpaper, preparing for soldering and formed the pipes around the appropriate sized drill bits. Then we soldered the tabs together.
(https://i.ibb.co/513wYyM/making-pipes-4.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Then she cleaned up the ends of the pipes and removed any burrs on the ends with a counter sink so they would not be sharp and scrape the ramrod.
(https://i.ibb.co/5K25YP1/making-pipes-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Vw3vHsL)
She then filed and cleaned up the pipes. Next we cut off the tang from a cast steel rear pipe.
(https://i.ibb.co/gjHz3KH/making-pipes-7.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Then she soldered the tang on to her rear sheet steel pipe. She embossed a ring on the rear of that pipe about 1/8" forward of the end giving it a section to attach the cast tang. We then soldered the tang on to the rear pipe.
(https://i.ibb.co/4VCn6Vn/making-pipes-8.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Maria cleaned it up and here are her set of pipes.
(https://i.ibb.co/q0ySLW7/making-pipes-9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Q8bg7Cp)
(https://i.ibb.co/7jFHKMY/making-pipes-10.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YPG6hnR)
dave
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Nice work. They came out great!
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Great project and a start to progress.
To Maria: For those peers whom believe the "sport" they play will get them somewhere in life, certainly do have a lesson coming. There is a quite small percentage whom make it a gainfully employed profession. Sport teaches teamwork and camaraderie, both of which you can find among this forum and events enjoyed by the same. I would certainly be surprised if very many of the ALR forum members still participate in the same "sports" today that they did while in grade school. Peers of my current age complain of injuries incurred during their teen years of organized team events. No doubt, they incurred injuries of other sorts from decisions not for the wiser and more than likely during the partake of truth serum.
Also, you are already finding out there is physical fitness required for the tasks of building firearms. Now imagine doing this as a daily function, an apprentice, an underling or even the master of the shop.
And as you progress with learning and skill, you shall apply this knowledge and talent to other attributes of life. Layout and measurements, keen eye to detail, proportion and beauty, utilizing mixed materials.
Chin up and pave your own path!
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I’ve been making my own ramrod pipes for 50 years, and she’s doing a better job at it than I can !
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Your indeed one lucky lady, would be over the top cool to own a scratch made rifle made by a woman, for sure one of a kind item very few would ever own...
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Hi Everyone,
Thank you all for looking and supporting Maria. She is an exceptional person and student. She was offered a scholarship at Siena College near Albany, NY that would pay 80% of her tuition and living costs for 4 years to major in history. Because she rides horses, she was one of the Civil War soldiers representing the 2nd Vermont in a parade last weekend. She appreciates your support and good wishes.
We should be getting the barrel any day but in the meantime, we worked on her iron butt plate. It was forged by Ian Pratt but we need to tweak it a little for her project and clean it up. The first step was to widen the return a little by decreasing the domed shape making the top a little flatter. So I taught Maria how to use my Oxy/Acetylene welder. She used it to heat the plate while I hammered it into final shape. Here she is looking very "retro".
(https://i.ibb.co/Hx91FcN/heat-shaping-a-butt-plate.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3MPGrxf)
Then we gave the plate a little more crescent on the face including adding a little positive pitch. I explained to her how that should help fit the gun better to her build. Then she cleaned it up with files. We have more shaping to do but it is coming along nicely and today was a good lesson in metal work as well as gun architecture. She learns so fast it is scary.
(https://i.ibb.co/0r6kB4V/filing-butt-plate-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Hqb0Nwp)
(https://i.ibb.co/rfkCzr7/filing-butt-plate-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6JY3TCn)
dave
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Dave, over the years that I have been a member of this forum, I have admired your work.
You are always enthusiastic about sharing your knowledge and solutions to problems encountered while building rifles.
I believe that at heart you are an educator, who gets as much satisfaction from sharing as building.
Congratulations to Maria you couldn't ask for a better teacher.
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Just to let you know, I look forward to following this thread I think it's so great, and very interesting! Keep up the good work!! Maria is very fortunate to be able to work alongside you Dave! Very inspirational!!
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IMHO the practice of using the " old " terms is a great idea. It fits in with the historical aspect of her build and will add greatly to her history education. Best of luck to both of you on this project.
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Hi and thanks for your support for Maria!
We worked on the butt plate some more today. Here is our inspiration, a 1760s English fowler restored by Jim Kibler.
(https://i.ibb.co/6Bdt2T9/butt-plate-inspiration.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
We are not copying this plate but using it for inspiration. The forged plate by Ian Pratt has the height, crescent face, and overall shape that Maria wants. However, we are tweaking it a bit to make it closer to our model. You might ask why not just use a common commercially made English fowler butt plate? Well, none have much crescent to the face and none are tall enough. That is the reason I use the "Dubbs" longrifle butt plates sold by TOW for many of my 18th century British guns. With some welding or stretching of brass, it can be made into a much more elegant English fowler butt plate than the usual products available. In this case, we had Ian's plate and decided it would work well with some changes. Moreover, the modifications are exceedingly valuable for teaching gun work and basic skills any apprentice or serious muzzleloader gun maker should master.
Maria filed the butt plate to bring it closer to our model.
(https://i.ibb.co/6th5D01/filing-butt-plate-3.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/hY49jSQ/filing-butt-plate-4.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/3WtCPPm/filing-butt-plate-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ctzrssh)
We welded steel to the plate to make the forward end a bit wider so we could shape it more to our model. Maria cleaning up the welds with the Dremel destroyer. More to come.
(https://i.ibb.co/Ws2VfQH/filing-butt-plate-6.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
dave
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Well Done Maria! :D
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Hi,
Maria worked today on finishing her iron butt plate. It was forged by Ian Pratt and we reshaped it a bit to look more like typical plates used on 18th century English fowlers. We also gave it a bit more crescent and rounded the bottom. It still needs final finishing and a lug riveted and welded under the return for a cross pin.
(https://i.ibb.co/m4cPvM9/filing-butt-plate-6.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/jHDM18T/filing-butt-plate-7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GFR2bd0)
(https://i.ibb.co/LJjV5pg/filing-butt-plate-8.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/6sXG3dW/filing-butt-plate-9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/s3Wc0BV)
I had a lock plate and frizzen for another client's gun to case harden so I thought it a good time to introduce Maria to that process. She packed the steel box and programmed the oven for the temperature regime (1550 degrees F for 90 minutes). I typically set the ramp up heating rate to 1400 degrees/hr and bring the parts to 1520 degrees and hold them there for 5 minutes and then reduce the heating rate to 125 degrees/hr and raise the temperature to 1550. That way the fast initial rate of heating does not overshoot my ultimate target temperature. Before starting the oven, I had Maria practice grabbing the box at the right spot with heavy channel locks and remove it from the oven wearing heavily insulated gloves and face shield. After warned her that the next time she opens that oven, everything inside will be glowing orange and throwing out a lot of heat. Anyway, it all went well and we quenched the pack in water. Maria thought the whoosh of hot charcoal and metal hitting water was "epic".
dave
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What a wonderful and fulfilling education you are giving here, David. What an exciting blessing it must be for her.
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What a wonderful and fulfilling education you are giving here, David. What an exciting blessing it must be for her.
Yes indeed,an education not available in the systems we have now.My own lovely friend,Amanda has been
recognized in the NC systems "Girl Rising" and said all the odd and obscure info I gave her was a big help.
She is now married and teaches the 7th and 8th grades where she lives now.She wants to attend a CLA Show in Lexington so she and her sister can go shopping as well. ;D.
Bob Roller
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Yes, an education for more than just Maria, but also for a lot of us watching along. Thanks to both participants for letting us follow this process.
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David, tell Maria that there are a bunch of envious old guys that would love a chance to be getting that same hands on work experience. Thanks for sharing all this. Its a job in itself i know trying to document the build.
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Hi, and thanks for the votes of confidence and support.
We are on a roll now because the barrel came from Rice. It is 20 gauge, 41" long, and it 1 1/32" wide at the breech. It weighs just over 2lbs and the barrel wall thickness at the muzzle is 1/16". I believe it is made from 4140 steel. So next week we start inletting the barrel and parts. Today, Maria finished her butt plate by attaching a lug under the return for a cross pin. She did this by cutting and filing a rectangular lug from 1/8" thick steel and filed one end into a round peg. She then cut 8-32 threads into the peg. Then the butt plate is drilled and tapped for an 8-32 thread. The top of that hole is countersunk slightly.
(https://i.ibb.co/t3C9KY9/fitting-lug-on-butt-plate-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vDzSqLS)
The lug is theaded into the butt plate and adjusted so it tightens down when lined up properly.
(https://i.ibb.co/LQfck9s/fitting-lug-on-butt-plate-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gvCfjtc)
Next she peened the excess peg down into the counter sink. We love bashing stuff.
(https://i.ibb.co/P4BXVMF/fitting-lug-on-butt-plate-3.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Then the peened mound of excess metal is heated and welded to the butt plate locking it all together. We love burning and melting stuff.
(https://i.ibb.co/zXBwv9p/fitting-lug-on-butt-plate-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/y6ZJjvt)
Grind, file, and sand the return smooth and clean and we are done.
(https://i.ibb.co/QJVLxk6/fitting-lug-on-butt-plate-5.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/c83d8Sk/fitting-lug-on-butt-plate-6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JptPpwm)
dave
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I don't know who is enjoying this more but I can say I am enjoying following along. Merry Christmas to you all, sharing is the best gift!
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I am really enjoying this. I have no idea how I missed this before. Fantastic job all around.
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This is a real pleasure to read. I have had a standing offer to help anyone who wanted to build and let them use my shop, references, and my meager experience. One of my fellow Fort Tassinong members , a young guy, finally has taken me up on it and I am looking forward to this no end. Hopefully this will provide a means to get some other younger shooters interested in our sport and it’s history.
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What great work. Thanks to both of you for sharing this build, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
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I live less than an hour away from Sienna. She’s a smart young lady to get a significant scholarship there. It’s an expensive school, and not easy to get in to.
It would be great if she continues her interest in muzzleloading.
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Hi and thanks again for all your kinds comments and support. Maria had no idea she had such a big audience until yesterday.
The Rice barrel is beautiful and will make a very light, well balanced bird gun. It is of an earlier 1690s-1710s design but will work fine. We may make a few minor profile changes.
(https://i.ibb.co/n3tmKDy/barrel-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HN349ry)
(https://i.ibb.co/M1pLcLJ/barrel-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/z2bwXwt)
Jason provided a hooked plug and standing breech, which were beautifully machined and very precisely fit. Unfortunately, the tang on the standing breech is only 1.6" long, which is way too short. It needs to be about 2.25" long to be historically accurate for the gun and to be able to fit a tang screw that threads into a trigger plate at the right position on the stock for a Chambers round-faced English lock. With the short tang, the trigger plate would have to be too far forward or have a very long front extension. So, we are going to use a standing breech from TRS (which I have) and replace the hooked plug. We will cut a hook from a standard breech plug fitted to the barrel. Maria will learn to fit a breech plug and shape a hook, basic skills she should learn to be a competent muzzleloader gunsmith. We will save Jason's hooked breech and eventually use it on a pistol for which it is ideal. She already removed the hooked plug provided and needed almost her entire weight on the wrench to move it at first. But she did it without damaging the hook.
We were struggling a bit with designing the gun so it fit her but retained the architecture we wanted. Maria needs about 3.25" of drop at heel but also needs a tall comb, and slight positive pitch. These are suggestions James Rogers mentioned to me when fitting women and he is bang on. Well James, Maria and I fussed with adjusting the design of the high end fowler I built and merging it a bit with the original fowler I bought from Jim Kibler.
(https://i.ibb.co/gtRkrNc/finished-fowler-10.jpg) (https://ibb.co/c2r4y0s)
(https://i.ibb.co/hH708P7/Kibler-gun-lock-side-long-view.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4MmkN6m)
We had what seemed a pretty good compromise but then Maria shouldered the silver mounted Heylin gun I bought from you. It was almost a perfect fit. It just needed about 1/4" more drop at heel.
(https://i.ibb.co/wdS7dTs/Heylin-gun-lock-side-long-view.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VLgxLdm)
We went back to the drawing board and designed a new gun using the Heylin as our model. We made it a little more robust given what her fowler is supposed to represent (a good but not 1st quality export fowler from London) and that she will use it for reenacting a member of Warner's Green Mountain Boys. She fell in love with the Heylin and maybe she will try to make a copy in the future with silver mounts. I try to always urge her to shoot high and be fearless of failure. Here is our final design.
(https://i.ibb.co/JQQH4Ny/drawing-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gVVJpGP)
(https://i.ibb.co/Yj50D4W/drawing-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9YxZwmv)
(https://i.ibb.co/MZvszHw/drawing-6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9cDNx0K)
This is going to be a beautiful and elegant gun.
dave
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Hi Rawhide Rick,
She received 2 major scholarships to Siena. One was the President's Scholarship and another is the St. Francis Scholarship in history. They total about $35,000 per year. She still has to secure more to fully fund her education and room and board there.
dave
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Thank you for sharing the enthusiasm of both teacher and student with this project!
I'm so glad y'all have found a good fit for Maria. It will make so much of a difference for her. I would love to see her replicate that silver Heylin!
Best to both!
James
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Dave, you are indeed fortunate to be able to pass on your knowledge to one so fortunate and willing to receive it. She sounds like a very lovely person who, in time, will pass on her learned knowledge to one yet not born.
Merry Christmas to all...
Cheers Richard
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Hi Rawhide Rick,
She received 2 major scholarships to Siena. One was the President's Scholarship and another is the St. Francis Scholarship in history. They total about $35,000 per year. She still has to secure more to fully fund her education and room and board there.
dave
She will love Siena. My granddaughter graduated from there a few years ago and loved it. Really nice college.
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Dave , I very much enjoying watching the progress of Maria's rifle. It must be wonderful to have an apprentice as engaged as Maria is. Well done.
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Hi folks and thanks again for your support and interest in this project,
Maria turned 18 today and her grandparents, mother, and brother came over to the shop to see her progress. It was a very nice time and everyone in her family is behind her. After her family left, Maria and I got busy preparing the stock for barrel inletting. First, it needed to be squared up so sides were even and perpendicular. So I got out my jack plane and taught Maria how to sharpen the blade. To sharpen, I use 3-M micro abrasive sheets placed on a flat polished granite tile from Home Depot. Final polish is achieved by stroking the tool on a leather strop coated with jeweler's rouge. My dad made me that strop almost 40 years ago. Anyway, Maria trued up the stock blank.
(https://i.ibb.co/9pLtf19/Maria-rough-stocker-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rQSsLzG)
(https://i.ibb.co/YyWPSPF/Maria-rough-stocker-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nn06y6N)
(https://i.ibb.co/y6691Tm/Maria-rough-stocker-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Mccv4Ty)
The photos demonstrate the value of a good wood working bench. The wooden leg vices hold the stock securely and the height is just right to be able to get your weight over the work so the work of planing is transferred to your upper body and legs, and not your arms. A sharp plane and the right bench make this a physically active but pleasant task even with dense wood like English walnut. Next we trimmed out the stock to our outline. To transfer the outline to the wood, I trace the drawing on clear transparency sheet using a Magic Marker Sharpie, then place it on the stock blank. The clear sheet allows us to see the wood grain relative to the outline of the gun. We adjust accordingly. Then we tape the transparency sheet to the stock and slip graphite paper underneath. We then trace the lines and the graphite paper copies them to the wood. We then darken those lines with a Sharpie and cut out the stock on the bandsaw.
(https://i.ibb.co/48B0PQD/Maria-rough-stocker-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CbxShrX)
Here is the result showing perfect grain flow in the stock and some really nice figure.
(https://i.ibb.co/f4x4h69/perfect-grain-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/t8J87jz)
(https://i.ibb.co/hX6XKKF/perfect-grain-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SQjQKKw)
(https://i.ibb.co/qdfx2zp/perfect-grain.jpg) (https://ibb.co/drq7HSD)
Next we mount a dado blade on my table saw that will cut the minimum width of the barrel and cut a groove in the stock blank about 2/3s the depth of the barrel.
Then we inlet the breech of the barrel until it sets down into the stock enough to accurately trace its outline.
(https://i.ibb.co/tHJg2rj/Maria-rough-stocker-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FhD2YTZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/R2cQ1V8/Maria-rough-stocker-6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XXtF9vH)
(https://i.ibb.co/VYcgGPv/Maria-rough-stocker-7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r2Rxh1Z)
(https://i.ibb.co/nn91VBy/Maria-rough-stocker-8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Tb60n1G)
(https://i.ibb.co/K6PXCtg/Maria-rough-stocker-9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dBTrnNv)
Once we have a good outline of the barrel on the stock, we will fully inlet it with chisels, gouges, and barrel floats.
dave
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Maria,
Nice work! And that is going to be a very attractive stock. 8)
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It sure looks like things are progressing along quite nicely. Installing that lug on the front of the butt plate sure looks like a nice job. I too am enjoying the follow along. Thanks for sharing. :)
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loving this build. all the best to both of you.
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Hi,
Maria wanted to work on New Year's Day so we got going at about 1:30 PM. This is where we started.
(https://i.ibb.co/Ky9TVQs/barrel-inlet-1.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
The octagonal breech section is the only place where serious tapering occurs so we focused ther to get the barrel down in the stock sufficient to trace and accurate outline. Maria checked depth of the bottom flat at various locations and then chiseled out enough wood to set the breech down in the stock quite a ways. She also liked the way the visor enlarged her eyes kind of the way Soupy Sales and Ernie Kovacs did it.
(https://i.ibb.co/0DkvKy9/barrel-inlet-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Vjd5xYC)
Here she used an octagonal barrel float to shape the breech area.
(https://i.ibb.co/BC4bgG6/barrel-inlet-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gRvNDdW)
Next, she cut the bottom of the groove made with the dado cutter to the muzzle with a gouge to begin forming it round to the right depth. That also allowed the barrel to sit down in the stock for accurate tracing.
(https://i.ibb.co/6wcL93z/barrel-inlet-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QQ7tS2L)
After tracing the barrel, she continued to curve the barrel channel for the round section with a gouge and smooth it with a round barrel float.
(https://i.ibb.co/6Z3kQPh/barrel-inlet-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4f6HkTy)
Then it came time to let inletting black guide her. I apply a thin coat of black with a tooth brush and then we set it in the stock. Maria cut and scraped the marks until the barrel began to set down to final fit.
(https://i.ibb.co/XC1fZQ7/barrel-inlet-6.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/DRXqJmK/barrel-inlet-7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/x7v4kw5)
A little tedious work and we ended the afternoon with this. Just a little more to do and the result is a nice precise barrel channel inlet with a few tiny gaps that will eventually disappear when finish is applied.
(https://i.ibb.co/DRXqJmK/barrel-inlet-7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/x7v4kw5)
(https://i.ibb.co/k5dyWrW/barrel-inlet-8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ckmv7p7)
(https://i.ibb.co/s5g3gqX/barrel-inlet-9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GsdPdRr)
dave
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Well done!
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Hi,
Yesterday, Maria finished inletting the barrel. It came out very well with a few minor spots where the channel could be tighter. The figure in the wood made the job a bit harder but Maria has learned to sharpen tools scary sharp. She is good at it.
(https://i.ibb.co/YfP7BXp/barrel-inlet-10.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/q1fdR5m/barrel-inlet-13.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pX8x3y4)
In this image note the inletting black on her nose and face. That's what happens when your glasses slide down your nose and you have to push them back up.
(https://i.ibb.co/bdVSQ9V/barrel-inlet-12.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Finally, we coated the barrel channel with a thin coat of AcraGlas tinted accordingly, to strengthen the channel. When we are done, her stock will be eggshell thin around the barrel and the AcraGlas really strengthens the wood. Hopefully, it will help preserve the gun during the rough and tumble of reenactments.
(https://i.ibb.co/Vq2L5ZY/barrel-inlet-14.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TgmwdSM)
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Hi,
We had a good day making the ramrod groove and drilling the ramrod hole. The Rice Dolep barrel has a very steep taper over the first 2 inches from the breech. Very steep. Based on our plans, we wanted the web of wood between the barrel channel and ramrod to be about 1/8" under the barrel at the breech and 3/16" under the barrel at the muzzle. That means the ramrod is not parallel with the bore but closer to parallel with the bottom of the barrel. This provides for a very slim gun, particularly for the fore stock but also good clearance for the forward lock bolt. This is in keeping with the original English fowlers that I own. So we marked a straight line on the sides of the stock that was 1/8" below the barrel at the breech and 3/16" below at the muzzle. The ramrod groove and hole would be parallel to that line. To achieve that, Maria had to plane the bottom of the stock blank to a line that was exactly parallel with our line for the bottom of the barrel. That surface then sat down on my router table and guided the depth of the routed groove in the stock blank. The ramrod groove and hole is to be 5/16" wide but my round 5/16" bit is a mess so we used a flat bottomed 5/16" bit and then a gouge to round the bottom of the groove.
(https://i.ibb.co/F870bkQ/ramrod-groove-and-hole-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QYmCF7W)
Maria smoothed the groove with a 5/16" rasp with a bent handle and coarse sandpaper wrapped around a round form.
(https://i.ibb.co/30Frtwn/ramrod-groove-and-hole-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jLw67dS)
The result was a nice clean groove. Then we used a 5/16" ramrod drill to make the hole.
(https://i.ibb.co/CmBqHBZ/ramrod-groove-and-hole-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VJVdqVZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/BPY77Z0/ramrod-groove-and-hole-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b3GyyBc)
We started the hole but realized quickly we needed a course correction. The groove cut by gouges at the beginning of the step by the rear ramrod pipe had a bump pushing the drill down. We discovered this quickly and because that section of the hole would be replaced by the rear ramrod pipe, we simply cut it away, adjusted the groove at entry and started again. This illustrates measures that I routinely make to prevent problems. I start my ramrod holes where the front of the rear pipe will be. I then drill in 1/2" at a time until I am sure everything is lined up correctly. That gives me 2 increments of drilling that can be cut away and realigned if needed because they will be replaced by the rear pipe and provides a check that all is going to plan. After we realigned the groove, we started the hole again and it was on track. I had Maria start the hole using the drill and hand powered brace-and-bit.
(https://i.ibb.co/tC14FMZ/ramrod-groove-and-hole-6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Lps8HzQ)
That was to allow a slow start but also to give her experience with period tools. Then once the hole was well established, I had her power the drill with an electric drill so she learned how to use that tool for this purpose.
All this time we were assisted by my other helper.
(https://i.ibb.co/XFXGXQY/my-other-helper.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8PMQMCY)
In the end, the hole was drilled successfully but it ended up about 1/32"-1/16" lower in the stock at the breech than we planned likely because the figured walnut had some really tough parts to drill through, deflecting the drill downward. It was a great experience for Maria and the end result was just great.
(https://i.ibb.co/56nqnj0/ramrod-groove-and-hole-7.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/KGnTCk7/ramrod-groove-and-hole-8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JdZDX42)
(https://i.ibb.co/3CnrM8Y/ramrod-groove-and-hole-9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VqsjQhp)
Next up is trimming the stock and inletting the lock.
dave
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Happy gal, must be a happy teacher. Well done, Dave & Maria of course.
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A million$ smile from someone who is seeing success evolve before her eyes.If you enjoy it then it ain't work and keep it up.
Bob Roller
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Hi folks,
Maria and I thank you all for your encouragement. This project is going well. Today's lesson was fitting a standing or "break off" breech, which many of you call "hook breech and tang". For those of you intending to build English fowlers this post contains a lot of information you will not find anywhere else other than my tutorials on English fowlers posted on the ALR site.
Rice provided a standing breech that was beautifully machined but the tang was way too short. It is perfect for a pistol but not a long gun. Maria will save the finely made breech for her eventual pistol. I have cast standing breeches from TRS and a standard breech plug with tang that fit her barrel. So our first job was to fit the new breech plug. This is a basic skill to learn and our new plug needed to turn 180 degrees further to seal against the shoulder in the barrel and line up with the top and bottom flats on the barrel. So Maria had to file the bolster of the plug and face to make the fit. We used Magic Marker on the face to test for fit to the shoulder.
(https://i.ibb.co/QpqGkLs/fitting-hook-and-standing-breech-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PFb8MKB)
(https://i.ibb.co/hX1z0fz/fitting-hook-and-standing-breech-2.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Next, we cut off the tang and shape the bolster into the proper hook. On original 18th century English guns, the hook is tapered such that it is a little narrower at the top than the bottom. So is the slot in the standing breech. That is so the hook snugs tighter into the breech as it is fully engaged. No modern commercial makers of these breeches do this.
(https://i.ibb.co/kx3CqBT/fitting-hook-and-standing-breech-3.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/7kRdwkD/fitting-hook-and-standing-breech-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hYZJPYN)
After filing the sides of the hook so they fit the slot in the standing breech, we cleaned up the cast standing breech, made sure the face was filed true and flat and the slot clean and crisp. Then we started to shape the hook, working both top and bottom until it began to slide in place. When close, we installed the plug in the barrel and continued filing until the hook smoothly slid into place. The result was a nice firm fit.
(https://i.ibb.co/hCf1MSn/fitting-hook-and-standing-breech-5.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/Kw8qL3Z/fitting-hook-and-standing-breech-6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xHrjfRv)
(https://i.ibb.co/R2fwM87/fitting-hook-and-standing-breech-7.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/RQrc5HM/fitting-hook-and-standing-breech-8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tYjDdCN)
The standing breech is oversize and will be filed down flush with the barrel flats, except the top 3 flats. Those will have a step above the barrel as were the originals. The standing breech has a hump and is exactly correct for the time period this gun is supposed to represent. Moreover, you can see the lug on the bottom of the standing breech. That is for a cross pin to anchor the bottom of the breech. Unless you buy castings from TRS or Blackley, you will never get that feature nor the hump. The commercially made stuff is very deficient and historically inaccurate.
dave
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That is special, what a fit!!
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Hi,
We inlet the standing breech today. It still needs a little tweaking but it is essentially done. We solder the standing breech to the hook and barrel using Eutectic TIX solder. I like solder not glue because it cleans up easily and you can pop the breech off by heating it to check the inletting fit of the standing breech without the barrel and then simply reheat the barrel and breech to solder it back together.
(https://i.ibb.co/LpRhLBy/inletting-standing-breech-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/f0FGhZW)
After soldering, Maria filed the bottom 5 flats of the breech flush with the barrel. Then she inlet a space in the stock for the hook bolster. Next she inlet the frame of the breech and the bottom lug.
(https://i.ibb.co/tDZ8gvB/inletting-standing-breech-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jDVgmQh)
(https://i.ibb.co/z4v2Knk/inletting-standing-breech-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/MC01q2X)
The she started to fit the tang working slowly backward.
(https://i.ibb.co/hB8YHLQ/inletting-standing-breech-4.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/1ng56fk/inletting-standing-breech-5.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Finally, it all slips into place.
(https://i.ibb.co/xmVNBLJ/inletting-standing-breech-6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JxX9Gt5)
(https://i.ibb.co/2c730kh/inletting-standing-breech-7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xzSqK7L)
dave
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Dave, as I mentioned in the 'other' forum, I think these tutorials would be ideal published material (book form) for a substantial, authoritative tome on historically accurate antique gun building. (Though I can't imagine the amount of work that would entail). We are really lucky to access these tutorials in a few internet places, but the broader antique gun building and appreciating world may not be so lucky.
Nonetheless, thanks again for all your updates on the progress of this fowler. Fascinating stuff, really.
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Finding someone that young that wants to learn the hand skills that few if any schools teach now is as rare as a football bat.
The "Cuter than a kitten" appearance does no harm either.She wants to learn an unusual skill and she obviously has the aptitude
for it and I hope some knucklehead doesn't try to discourage her.NONE of our 5 grandbrats have any interest in anything that I
do or have done.Our oldest son was an MP for 20 years and now works for the Post Office in Texas.His brother has a great job in
a factory here that is busy with a long term job making specialized fasteners for our submarines now being built and his son worked
there for a short time and quit and now works in a fast food shop >:(. and seems to like it. He has seen my little machine shop and
asked no questions about anything in it and neither did his Texas cousins when they visited last Summer.
My advice to your young student is "Look,listen and LEARN".
Bob Roller
PS,I recently got a note from the young woman I helped with her "Masters"Degree in WW2 American History" that said,"I will be forever grateful for that day,July 8,2018 you stopped to make a purchase in the Aldi's store where I was working".
She got married on 8 August of 2022 and is teaching in another town now at the 8th grade.
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Hi folks and thanks for your comments and support,
We are moving forward. The standing breech is well fitted and works. We filed a bit off the tang and vacuumed the dust but then I wet the wood and created that gray stain from the metal. It easily scrapes off but I failed to clean it all up before taking the photo. In the second photo you can clearly see the mortise for the bottom lug on the standing breech.
(https://i.ibb.co/Z6LQhRn/inletting-standing-breech-8.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/t2TdL27/inletting-standing-breech-9.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Next up was to trim off excess wood, true the sides by planing, and rasp the rough blank close to the final profile. Even still squared up, the blank shows the elegant lines and truth of the design as representing a mid-18th century English fowler.
(https://i.ibb.co/K5YyQ3R/Maria-rough-stocker-10.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Fh97fjN)
(https://i.ibb.co/4WHVnFq/Maria-rough-stocker-11.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G7q54d6)
(https://i.ibb.co/M5J83gK/Maria-rough-stocker-12.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/HXmCxFY/Maria-rough-stocker-13.jpg) (https://ibb.co/N7wrmVp)
(https://i.ibb.co/KVX9M1X/Maria-rough-stocker-14.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dkrQdhr)
(https://i.ibb.co/b6MF1mQ/taking-shape-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/D1HY4Wz)
(https://i.ibb.co/VvQ1zLN/taking-shape-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/THbf7wT)
(https://i.ibb.co/JBL9nqj/taking-shape-3.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/z7cBpfk/taking-shape-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SdTMbvL)
Maria mentioned that her aspiration to become a hand model is now ruined. ;D
(https://i.ibb.co/jzWvqsT/Maria-rough-stocker-15.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kJ9gzvx)
dave
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Her hands as shown can be presented as those of someone who is doing something and enjoyed every second of what she did.
They ARE washable....if you feel the need. ;D
Bob Roller
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After my first inletting attempt, there were blood stains and bandaids on a couple of fingers, so she’s doing something right.
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She’s doing work every bit as good as what I do ..( probably better)…..and I’ve been doing this off and on for 50 years. Keep it up !!!!!!!
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Hi,
Lock inletting time. Maria filed draft on the lock plate and we positioned it based on our plans. Then she inlet the bolster first so she could lay the lock plate flat on the stock.
(https://i.ibb.co/hdvbtdQ/lock-inlet-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/R6WfV6r)
(https://i.ibb.co/Jv63GFm/lock-inlet-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/D9crvgz)
Keep in mind, we trimmed off wood from the sides of the lock panel so we only had 1/16" extra above the final depth of the plate. It is stupid to try and inlet a lock plate through a lot of excess wood. You cannot see how well you are cutting the mortise and you risk chipping out a lot of wood every time you remove the plate. Once the plate was down on the stock, she traced the outline with a sharp carving knife.
(https://i.ibb.co/zn9rt1t/lock-inlet-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/h7QyTkT)
Next, she stabbed the outline in deeper and back cut the edges to remove wood along the edges of the mortise. Then she used shallow sweeps to remove wood from the center of the mortise. The sweeps allow cutting with and across the grain to hog out wood. Eventually, she had the mortise cut for the lock plate with no gaps.
(https://i.ibb.co/prZJ6K1/lock-inlet-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bRLzjv6)
(https://i.ibb.co/Xxk4WZM/lock-inlet-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Zz1Jf67)
Then I had her inlet the internals one at a time by drilling holes for the bridle, sear, and sear spring holes to their proper depth and diameter and then using those holes to align and trace the individual parts. Here is where she is at the end of the afternoon.
(https://i.ibb.co/HgYcmfY/lock-inlet-6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Lp6T4X6)
(https://i.ibb.co/kyM5ZHh/lock-inlet-7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CtWmL1n)
Tomorrow, we finish inletting the lock, make, install and inlet the barrel lugs and hopefully, inlet the barrel keys. It may take 2 sessions to accomplish that.
dave
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It's obvious that she has the skill to be able to split a pencil line for inletting the lock.That was the only thing I was ever able to do when I built a rifle.Now a low level pain in the right shoulder and wrist stops me from trying it again.
Bob Roller
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Simply amazing! Maria is definitely gifted with natural talent. A knowledgeable mentor is important but unless the student has talent no amount of coaching will make the difference. It takes some people, myself included, years to reach the level of skill already expressed by her workmanship. looking forward to see her work finished.
Hank
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Hi Hank,
Thank you. Coming from you that means a lot. She is going to fly. My job is to teach her the basics and specifics and then get out of her way.
dave
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Hi,
The lock inlet is finished. Here is a photo of Maria using the "Dremel Destroyer" to smooth out some of the lock mortise.
(https://i.ibb.co/ssXWxCK/lock-inlet-8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SVZfYct)
Here is the almost finished mortise. She will clean it up later but the work is excellent. This is her first lock mortise.
(https://i.ibb.co/9yLWfms/lock-inlet-9.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/zV8V9Sc/lock-inlet-10.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r2b28ZP)
Her inlet was too tight causing a chip to pull away when removing the lock. You can see it on the bottom just in front of the hole for the sear. It is fine because the wood is higher then the plate so the chip will disappear. However, it serves as a warning.
After inletting the lock, I wanted to let Maria do a task that will make her gun more realistic and less abstract so I had her start shaping the wrist. I taught her to use half round pattern maker's rasps and files to begin the shaping. It is important to learn where convex shapes blend into convex ones around the lock and side plate panels. She did very well and the result begins to reveal the look and feel of the final gun.
(https://i.ibb.co/x3bK7Zq/Maria-rough-stocker-16.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZNrRM9z)
(https://i.ibb.co/25HT3Kd/Maria-rough-stocker-17.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rvNV2yH)
(https://i.ibb.co/NxPbyDB/Maria-rough-stocker-18.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nrvtLdJ)
dave
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Absolutely amazing for a first gun. Sure must help to have a 1.2 decent teacher. ;D
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Hi,
Kind of a grunt work session yesterday. Maria wanted to decompress after her exams this week so she came over to work in the shop. We installed and inlet the barrel lugs. We used milled steel lugs from TOW rather than make them from scratch to save time. I prefer the loops on lugs for barrel keys to be wider providing more metal surface for the key to slide over but these will do fine and are about 3/32" wide. We positioned them to avoid the pipes so they ended up not evenly spaced on the barrel, which is fine. I clean the bottom of the lug and barrel surface thoroughly, then flux the barrel and lug and wire it in place.
(https://i.ibb.co/FBfhScZ/barrel-lugs-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fCKXhZ6)
Then we tilt the barrel over on its side and place a little solder (Stay Bright or Hi-Force 44) on top of the the edge along one side of the lug base. Heating from below on the other side of the lug then draws or sweats the solder through the joint. No need to tin the surfaces and try to hold the lug in position as the solder melts on the tinned surface and the lug sits down into the soft solder.
Once soldered in place, Maria ground the edges of the bases down a little to round them.
(https://i.ibb.co/Bwfq7yV/barrel-lugs-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZNfWwB6)
Next we drill 3 holes in a line to form the slot in the lug. We used a 1/16" drill. After that, we cut out the metal between the holes with a jeweler's saw and file the slot with a flat needle file. We are using cast steel barrel keys that are about 1/16" thick. The slot can and should have a little extra length and width than needed to pass the key. To inlet the lugs in the stock, Maria coated the bottoms of the loops with blacking, she placed the barrel in the stock and squeezed it marking the positions of the loops in the stock. Then she drilled a series of 1/16" holes in the stock and cleared away the wood between holes with a little chisel made from a flat needle file and a bit of fret saw blade held in an X-acto knife handle.
(https://i.ibb.co/N1sRhRw/barrel-lugs-3.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
A little filing with a needle file cleans things up and the barrel is placed in the stock with the lug bases blacked. That marks them in the stock and using a 1/4" flat chisel, she cuts nice clean mortises for the bases.
(https://i.ibb.co/982m7KG/barrel-lugs-4.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/nrDKTyt/barrel-lugs-6.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/NprsRYQ/barrel-lugs-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Qnkf0mz)
I am not concerned about having the lugs pass through the stock into the ramrod groove and hole. I know some folks obsess about that but when building a correctly slim English fowler from this period, you cannot really avoid having the lugs show in the ramrod groove because the web of wood is thin. You can see how thin the AcraGlas coating is in the barrel channel. You can see the wood grain right through it. It is thin but it really strengthens the side walls of the barrel channel particularly when they may get as thin as this:
(https://i.ibb.co/n8RvvLR/Heylin-gun-barrel-channel-view.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bR7ZZK7)
(https://i.ibb.co/hBcLzFv/Kibler-gun-front-sight-view.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Stc5Cwp)
(https://i.ibb.co/8KWG2sV/Kibler-gun-muzzle-view.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
On both of those originals, the barrel side walls are very fragile and chipping off in spots.
Next will be installing the barrel keys.
dave
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Dave,
Thanks for pointing out the width of the lugs on originals. That was a big eye opener for me in my early studies of English pieces. Every one I've seen has wide lugs as you pictured.
(https://i.ibb.co/qyMgFPk/20230127-085538.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/8cvvw95/20230127-090119.png) (https://ibb.co/16yyNTq)
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Hi James,
Yes, and the advantage of those wide lugs is the substantial metal to metal contact rather than largely wood contact with the barrel key. The wide metal surface makes it easier to adjust the fit of the key so it is firm but not too tight. Over time the mostly wood fit becomes worn and sloppy. Unless you make the loops, which is not hard, you can only get correct ones from TRS.
dave
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Really a splendid job on that tang. I have been Re-reading Col. Hawker's book and a lot of emphases is placed on the diameter of the breech. So many don't have a heavy enuf breech and they will/can shoot low because of that. This project is progressing along very well. Thanks again for your efforts and posting.
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Hi Folks,
A milestone day; inletting the barrel keys. This is a job that intimidates a lot of folks. Maria and I will show how we do it. The job is not hard but requires good measurements. Moreover, trim away most of the excess wood along the fore stock and square it up. It is foolish to try and do this task with more than 3/16" of wood left on the stock sides. The barrel lugs for the forward keys show in the ramrod channel. That gives us a good handle on the positions of the lugs in the stock. We measure the depth to the bottom of the lug from the edge of the ramrod channel and transfer that to the side of the stock. Then we measure the width of the loop above the bottom and draw that line on the stock. We measure the length of the lug and determine the middle. Then we punch a hole with an awl marking the center of the slot in the loop and holes on either side delineating the width of the key. The key is accurate measurements.
(https://i.ibb.co/Rc4ZFfx/barrel-key-inlet-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1TJhg1D)
Then we drill small holes (less than the thickness of the keys) from both sides keeping the drill level.
(https://i.ibb.co/fpC1Ckf/barrel-key-inlet-2.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
With that done we begin to open up the slot. Here are the tools we use.
Working from both sides, we inlet an outline of the key using flat chisels.
(https://i.ibb.co/2cqVqcf/barrel-key-inlet-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/P1xXx1f)
(https://i.ibb.co/5h2c8kW/barrel-key-inlet-7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SwJvncX)
Once the opening is defined, Maria uses a little saw made from a needle file to clear away the wood between the drilled holes creating the slot.
(https://i.ibb.co/tLcGJR4/barrel-key-inlet-3.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/pj4wLWT/barrel-key-inlet-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7trC1gD)
When that is done, we heat the barrel key blue hot ( the photo shows too much heat as Maria waited for me to snap the picture; it cooled before inserting) and burn the key in for a perfect final fit.
(https://i.ibb.co/C01qb6n/barrel-key-inlet-8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kcHp4Jh)
(https://i.ibb.co/pKCrd4K/barrel-key-inlet-9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/c8zXQ28)
Here is the result.
(https://i.ibb.co/z5W0DCX/barrel-key-inlet-10.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/VwWCyNt/barrel-key-inlet-11.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/8BQXmXF/barrel-key-inlet-12.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YWVbNbv)
(https://i.ibb.co/xXh2vTT/barrel-key-inlet-13.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sbjgSYY)
(https://i.ibb.co/vs3HSS5/barrel-key-inlet-14.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JxvK99L)
Dave
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Fantastic technique of burning the keyhole smooth. How did you even discover it?
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Hi James,
Yes, and the advantage of those wide lugs is the substantial metal to metal contact rather than largely wood contact with the barrel key. The wide metal surface makes it easier to adjust the fit of the key so it is firm but not too tight. Over time the mostly wood fit becomes worn and sloppy. Unless you make the loops, which is not hard, you can only get correct ones from TRS.
dave
Yes, and for strength given how thin the metal typically is above the slot.
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Another neat job on the keys. How thick are those keys and are the ones used to burn through the ones used in final assembly? I'm thinking that maybe burning through the wood might make the slots a little too loose and you might use a tinny bit thinner burn through key but maybe they don't burn that much wood. :-\
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Hi Smylee,
They are the same keys that will be used and pinned to the stock. They are just shy of 1/16" thick. They don't become loose later on because the wood swells with stain and finish. If anything, they may become too tight. The other point, Smylee, which I wrote about earlier is that it is the metal to metal fit that provides the pressure on the key, not the wood. That is why wide lugs are preferable.
dave
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Impressive! looking forward to seeing it finished.
Hank
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Fantastic technique of burning the keyhole smooth. How did you even discover it?
Hi Bob,
I learned it from a discussion on the ALR site maybe 15-18 years ago. We had a discussion about how British gun makers sometimes burned components into their mortises as a final fit. It smooths and almost polishes the edges of mortises for an exact and tight fit but with less chance of chipping off wood on the edges when removing the part. I think Taylor described the burn method for barrel keys years ago.
dave
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Thanks for that explanation Dave. I have a couple slots to do on an Turvey inspired gun and this info will help.
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Dave, that is Taylor's method and I remember that conversation/thread posted here, many years ago.
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Dave, whilst I had originals kept in my possession for a number of years, looking for evidence of burning in keys was one thing (im sure there are many more) I failed to ever examine.
Is there material or written evidence to suggest that was common practice in English gunmaking?
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Hi James,
I certainly see no evidence of it on any of the original 18 century fowlers I own but my late flint era gun has slots that are a discolored around the edges inside and could easily have been burned in. If I remember that old thread, there was no consensus that burning anything in was a common practice by the British makers. However, someone provided photos of an original gun in which it sure looked like the standing breech was burned in. I do it with the barrel keys not because it was the way British makers do it but because it works so well particularly when you are not installing escutcheon plates so the slot shows.
dave
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Thanks Dave. I couldn't remember or find the old conversations. I thought I remembered someone who had seen evidence on a gun or guns.
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Maybe one of these:
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=56678.msg567082#msg567082
https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=11540.msg110172#msg110172
Tim
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I think this may have been a discussion largely with myself and Jim Westburg. I don't recall the specifics, but I think we both had experimented with heating parts to a fairly low temperature to help get the perfect fit on the last tiny bit of inletting. I recall using this technique on the forward guard finial of the Harman inspired fowling piece I made. I recall him mentioning using it on some lock inletting, I believe. I also think he concluded that he'd seen evidence of this on 19th century, ultra precise English work.
Jim
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Hi James and Jim,
Thanks for chiming in. Tim, it was a different post. We always have to be careful when discussing British work because it changed over time. I believe it is always important to provide a time period just as we do for long rifles. For example, the high end silver mounted fowler by Heylin that I bought from James Rogers shows excellent workmanship but much the lock mortise is rather roughly inlet. Not the edges but the guts. It is well done but nothing compared with the work you see on early 19th century British guns. My 1820s fowler by Fields is a good quality gun but nothing like the Heylin, yet the inletting puts the Heylin to shame. I don't think you could do better quality work with computer assisted machinery and this was a fairly ordinary gun. Procedures and standards changed over time. I suspect if final seating parts by burning was used much, it was during the 19th century when there seemed to be a demand or standard for supremely precise fitting of parts even in places that never show. There is another aspect to this that you all might consider. I am speculating here and from a broader view of British trades but hear me out. In America, there was always a shortage of highly skilled labor. That was partly due to the British discouragement of value added industries in colonial America. We were to provide the raw materials to Britain, which they manufactured into goods that were then sold back to us. This was part of the mercantilist system that Adam Smith criticized so much in "Wealth of Nations". We took to machinery much faster than the British despite many of the pioneers of powered machinery being British. It was because we had to supplement our dirth of skilled hand labor. In Britain, particularly in the gun trade, there was a wealth of skill and talent doing hand fitting and fabricating, and they were very antagonistic to any mechanization in the industry. The gun industry in Birmingham alone was the largest in the world. The vast numbers of British gun workers could do by hand what machines in America did by automation. The extreme division of labor aided that result. I believe part of the effort for precision in hand work observed in British guns even of middling quality was an effort to show the workforce could compete with the machines. That battle continued right up to our Civil War when Birmingham makers combining some machine manufacturing with a lot of hand labor made fortunes supplying the north and south. Yes, they adopted machining for some of the tasks but nothing like the Americans. So in conclusion, it might not be surprising to observe British gun makers using methods promoting precision at little cost of labor, like burning in, during the 19th century but not during earlier periods.
dave
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A very good reply Dave.
For myself, having looked at a good many British guns, I have as yet to see any evidence of burning in.
Best,
R.
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A very good reply Dave.
For myself, having looked at a good many British guns, I have as yet to see any evidence of burning in.
Best,
R.
I kind of feel the same. But just to be clear, I highly doubt you would ever notice what we were talking about unless you specifically were looking for it. What Jim Westberg and I were discussing is not heating to a red color and burning in. It is a much lower temperature and really doesn't cause much discoloration. He concluded the process was used in the 19th century largely from the ultra precise lock inletting that showed absolutely no tool marks, but rather a smooth polished appearance. He worked out a process where he was able to replicate this with low temperature heating.
Jim
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I have a Harris Holland side by side 13 bore that appears to have this done on the inside of the forearm. It is almost glass smooth and polished looking.
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Kind of like ironing the wood. I suspected something of this nature, I wonder if they had dies. It would also temper the wood to some extent.
Robby
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Hi,
Another milestone day; inletting the ramrod pipes. We got them all in Tuesday afternoon. We did the forward pipes first. After marking their positions, Maria marked and drilled holes for the tabs.
(https://i.ibb.co/bssHp7g/pipe-inlet-8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YccDvb7)
(https://i.ibb.co/tpZD28W/pipe-inlet-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8gz9x6S)
(https://i.ibb.co/JBMGv16/pipe-inlet-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r71zxj8)
Then she used small flat chisels to outline the edges of the slot for the tab and simply runs a carving knife down the middle removing wood for the slot.
(https://i.ibb.co/ctHcJg4/pipe-inlet-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RPmp2vR)
(https://i.ibb.co/CmKP9cR/pipe-inlet-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QpvDHgy)
Then she saws the rest of the wood away with our little saw made from a needle file.
(https://i.ibb.co/wwk3yX8/pipe-inlet-5.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
The pipe can now be inserted with the tab in the slot and she outlines the pipe on the stock with a pencil. She stabs in the ends with a tiny flat chisel and the rest of the wood is removed with small gouges. It was a beautiful sunny winter's day today as you can see through the window. We spent some time outside playing with Willow. The shop is a really pleasant place to work on days like this because the natural lighting is so nice.
(https://i.ibb.co/fpQ3VbN/pipe-inlet-6.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/hHwt6HK/pipe-inlet-7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NpbHvpL)
She uses inletting black to mark the high spots and cuts them away until the pipe sits down properly.
(https://i.ibb.co/0qVLQGy/pipe-inlet-11.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BLKJwC2)
(https://i.ibb.co/sRxwvk1/pipe-inlet-16.jpg) (https://ibb.co/024Mj89)
So much for the easy stuff. Now the rear pipe. An advantage of our 2-piece soldered rear pipe is that we can heat and pop the tang off. Then we just have the pipe to do first. This is a huge advantage.
(https://i.ibb.co/r4bsrDd/pipe-inlet-13.jpg) (https://ibb.co/5BYFHbK)
(https://i.ibb.co/kx9m0qc/pipe-inlet-9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7XRkVry)
Next we reattach the tang and inlet it gradually toward the rear. When inletting the tang, get the inevitable "pinch" point at the step almost fully inlet before cutting the mortise for the tang. The pipe will rock back and forth about the step if you don't and you may mismark the tang outline as a result. Get the tang down flat on the wood before marking it. Maria did a first class job on her first rear pipe.
(https://i.ibb.co/VYx21kk/pipe-inlet-12.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PGMwLVV)
(https://i.ibb.co/m4FYDjH/pipe-inlet-14.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DQg6VJ7)
(https://i.ibb.co/w7kPv8P/pipe-inlet-15.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hc64qr4)
We trim off the tabs so they are flush with the barrel channel and then will drill for the pin holes. To be clear, Maria is doing all the work. I buzz around like an annoying bee teaching her how to use the tools and methods but mostly I get out of her way. Occasionally, I do a task while she watches so she sees how I do the job but then I just hand off the tools and let her go at it.
dave
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Maria is for sure quite capable of doing the work. Who knows, she may become the 21st century Jane Frazier.
Hank
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Hi all!
Maria is very lucky who have a Master Gunbuilder(Kloke Hund) to teacher! Think most of us is self taught good luck :)
Runar
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I applaud and congratulate you both.
I lend a hand to the inexperienced. Sometimes, as you well know, it runs into hours. But SOMEONE has to do this.
Unfortunately two of them are older than I. Having someone this young having the INTEREST and getting good advice its just wonderful.
I consider this faint praise to you both.
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Hi,
Thank you all for your support. Dan, "faint praise" from you is enough for me. It is a privilege to teach a smart, dedicated young person like Maria. It is no burden, rather a real joy. She will be headed to Ohio in March to study under Ian Pratt and Ken Gahagan as the young gun maker scholar. Also teaching like this crystalizes in my mind what I know and don't know. If a method cannot be explained with reason and logic, you cannot teach it to a smart person. It is like the old story of the woman who cuts the ends off her ham before baking. When asked by her new daughter in law why, she responds that her mother always did it that way. When the mother is asked why, she says she had to cut off the ends because during the Depression she only had a tiny oven and the ham didn't fit. Knowing why you do sometime a certain way is often as important as knowing how to do it.
dave
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Hi,
Got more done. I forgot to mention that the ramrod pipes get larger in diameter toward the muzzle. The rear pipe is 5/16" inside diameter, the middle pipe is 3/8" inside diameter, and the front pipe is 27/64" inside diameter. That will accommodate a robust tapered and swelled ramrod while preserving a slim appearing gun. Maria drilled the pin holes today for the pipes. We opted to drill 2 holes for the first pipe, which suffers the most stress and leverage when the ramrod is removed and returned. We also positioned the hole for the rear pipe a little toward the back, which tends to anchor it and the tang better. No jigs or milling-drilling machines. We just hold the drill level and perpendicular by eye and drill. We mark the bottom of the pipe measuring from the ramrod groove walls and then drill a little above that line.
(https://i.ibb.co/mbNdLFZ/pipe-inlet-17.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LYNBLhj)
(https://i.ibb.co/hCscbV1/pipe-inlet-18.jpg) (https://ibb.co/stjCnqJ)
The holes came out very well. Next we drilled for the tang bolt so we could position the trigger and trigger plate. We just draw a guideline on the side of the stock, find the center of the hole in the tang, hold the drill level by eye and aligned with the guideline, and drill it. The hole is undersized so we can make adjustments if needed. It came out well but needed a slight adjustment with a round rasp to center it on the bottom of the stock.
(https://i.ibb.co/xJX6d45/drilling-tang-bolt-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2gWdHbK)
Finally, we located the trigger slot, marked it and drilled a series of holes, and then routed out the wood between the holes with a router bit on the Dremel Destroyer.
(https://i.ibb.co/ggj4jF7/trigger-inlet-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LpkNkhP)
(https://i.ibb.co/NFv5X4Z/trigger-inlet-2.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/0sT8rmc/trigger-inlet-3.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Needs to go a little deeper.
Done! We leave it at that for now.
(https://i.ibb.co/M8qj3Gx/trigger-inlet-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8zFRSdL)
dave
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Absolutely marvelous.
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Hi Folks,
This may seem like a boring post but there is really good information here if you read it carefully. Maria and I installed her trigger plate today. It was not as simple as you might think. The trigger plate is cast steel and sold by TOW for fowlers. It is a fine plate and goes well with the trigger we are using. The problem is the trigger position is wrong if you are using a round faced English lock whether by Chambers or Kibler. Both of those locks are too long and would be more valuable for a much greater range of guns if they were 1/4" to 3/8" shorter. Anyway with those big locks and a standing breech, the trigger position is so far back that the tang bolt from the standing breech has to enter at an angle divergent from perpendicular to the tang. You cannot push the extension on the trigger plate too far forward because it will interfere with the lug on the trigger guard. So to make this work, Maria and I had to make a lot of modifications. The first step was to move the trigger back in the trigger plate and fill the extra slot in front of the trigger. We did that by drilling holes to the rear of the slot, cutting and fileing away the steel so the trigger could move backward, and then welding steel to fill the slot in front of the trigger.
(https://i.ibb.co/HtX6Wh1/welding-trigger-plate-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/x13WpFP)
(https://i.ibb.co/bbZ0ZrX/welding-trigger-plate-2.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
With that accomplished, Maria inlet the trigger plate after filing draft on all edges. She began by inletting the thick forward extension first.
(https://i.ibb.co/DGyjX9N/trigger-plate-inlet-1.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Then the rest of the plate could sit down against the wood after she beat it with a hammer. She traced the outline of the plate and cut the mortise.
(https://i.ibb.co/Zhy7fVF/trigger-plate-inlet-2.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/WvgPCy7/trigger-plate-inlet-4.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Once in, we then drilled and tapped the plate for the tang bolt. It was a tiny bit off center but will work just fine.
(https://i.ibb.co/19YRjQp/trigger-plate-inlet-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/P5s10jb)
(https://i.ibb.co/dJphWCk/trigger-plate-inlet-7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G3MhxYC)
Next, we fitted the tang bolt. To make everything work, the tang bolt had to enter the tang of the standing breech at an angle and not perpendicular to the tang. That required we counter bore the bolt head rather than simply counter sink it into the tang. To do that we turned the head of the bolt such that it had flat sides and 5/16" diameter, then drilled the hole in the tang with a 5/16" drill a the appropriate angle. The hole is drilled deep enough to form vertical side walls. Then the bottom of the hole is counter sunk with a 5/16" counter sink that matches the angle of the bolt head. We counter sink it until the screw slot is aligned with the barrel and the head of the bolt sits down deep enough so when filed flush with the tang, has a deep enough screw slot and substantial thickness to be able to file the head to fit the angle of the tang.
(https://i.ibb.co/fvpdKXm/trigger-plate-inlet-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vYP4rc2)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZKcVbzm/trigger-plate-inlet-6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jG3TjkR)
(https://i.ibb.co/q56XrZm/trigger-plate-inlet-8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9tPzrMy)
(https://i.ibb.co/VTtJQwF/trigger-plate-inlet-9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZxVGY2Q)
It all came out well and eventually the tang bolt head will be filed flush or slightly domed and engraved. Good days work.
dave
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Nice!
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True craftsmanship -gun making at it's best.
Hank
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Good info for sure! If the lug on the trigger guard is in the way of the trigger plate, would moving the lug have been an option? I relocated the lug on a Lancaster trigger guard some time ago by cutting it off and soldering it in its new location. 7 years and many hunts later, the solder joint has held (knocking on the nearest piece of wood as soon as I finish typing this).
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Hi Lone Wolf,
Yes, the lug could be moved and another attached. I've done that often when modifying guards. However, that still would have meant making a new longer trigger plate because we cannot move the trigger forward. That would change its position relative to the sear bar of the lock. So the choice would have been, make a new trigger plate and reattach the lug on the guard versus lengthen the trigger slot in the existing trigger plate and counter bore the tang bolt. The latter is a much easier and quicker solution for us.
dave
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Hi,
Bit of a bump in the road for Maria and I. I had a really bad episode of arthritis in my left knee that hindered me pretty badly. My old-age ailments are not liking the roller coaster winter weather of deep freeze and then record heating that we experienced the last 8 years. In addition, Maria contracted bacterial pneumonia. It was relatively mild but both of us slowed down a lot these last few weeks. But we are back at it, weather and transportation to my shop permitting. It's English fowler butt plate time! Her previous inletting tasks were good preparation for this one. I know a lot of folks are intimidated by these butt plates but they are not really difficult as long as you pay attention to the details. The first step is preparing the butt plate, making sure there is some draft on the tang edges and that the edges of the face plate that fit against the stock are flat and true. Next, we hold the butt plate against the side of the stock and trace the profile of the face on the stock. Usually, we would remove the extra wood with a bandsaw. In this case, she needed the full length of the stock blank to achieve her desired length of pull. We had to remove so little wood so she just rasped it away using an 8" Liogier cabinet makers rasp.
(https://i.ibb.co/B258SzM/buttplate-inlet-1.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Next we want to shape the step and radius at the heel. We traced the curve on the stock and she cut down at the border of the step and in to remove the extra wood.
(https://i.ibb.co/4KYLqxf/buttplate-inlet-2.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
We use a Japanese saw that cuts on the pull stroke. They are superior to anything else for this kind of task. Then Maria uses her cabinet makers rasp to shape and round the step.
(https://i.ibb.co/Q8HtTdr/buttplate-inlet-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0B9v6th)
In addition, we locate the position of the lug under the tang on the stock. Inlet it using drills, small flat chisels, and a router bit in my Dremel. We make sure the forward edge of the mortise has extra room to allow the plate to move forward in the slot. The mortise for the lug does not have to be precise.
(https://i.ibb.co/HFmC752/buttplate-inlet-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r7n3kDt)
Next is using the cabinet makers rasp and my dragon rasp to fit face of the plate against the stock enough to make a good tracing of the tang. The tang is inlet with the realization that it will gradually move forward in the mortise as the face of the but plate is fitted to the end of the stock. We inlet the rear of the tang first and move forward but even after the entire tang is cut in, it will always need to be moved forward.
(https://i.ibb.co/1nZjrg9/buttplate-inlet-6.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
This is why the classic English plates that narrow consistently from heel to front are relatively easy to inlet. As you move them forward, they just close up any gaps. Butt plate returns that have swells are much more difficult.
Here is where we are. Maria is now using inletting black to guide her and the plate is almost in. It needs to move more forward but not very much.
(https://i.ibb.co/YcQs2W8/buttplate-inlet-7.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/NpKTP0z/buttplate-inlet-8.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/M7vphQ0/buttplate-inlet-9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NKvp3bB)
In the process of inletting the plate, Maria and I got into a conversation about history and all the while she kept distractedly brushing blacking on the plate. She covered the plate and got it all over her hands. We laughed and then cleaned the plate and started again.
(https://i.ibb.co/sQrTBjs/buttplate-inlet-5.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
More to come. Next up is finishing the butt plate inlet and beginning shaping of the butt stock.
dave
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you don't have to be distracted to get inletting black all over, just saying. ;) 8) :o
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Thanks again for sharing! I always look forward to the next post, sometimes I will go back and start at the beginning and read it all over again up to the current post :) ( I know it just me ) :) But I do really enjoy following along on this thread.
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Hi,
Another milestone day. The butt plate is in and we are starting to shape the butt stock. Maria finished inletting the butt plate. It came out very well considering she has never inlet a butt plate before. Let me be clear, I guide Maria, sometimes I step in and show her how to better use a tool or make a slight course correction. But then I get out of her way and go off and work on other guns. She does 99% of the work. Sometimes I watch her struggle with a task, I let her figure it out, and only step in when there is a really good teachable moment that enables her to make a big step forward. Then I leave her to it.
(https://i.ibb.co/Z8p66J3/buttplate-inlet-10.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/N7ZJBbq/buttplate-inlet-11.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
After inletting it, we drilled for the screw holes and installed the screws.
(https://i.ibb.co/hfb3J1w/buttplate-inlet-12.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/FJ5cDW7/buttplate-inlet-13.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/jMR94dT/buttplate-inlet-14.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Not bad for a first butt plate inlet. Next up we began shaping the butt stock using shallow sweeps, gouges, and rasps. This fowler will have a baluster wrist merging with the comb in a radius rather than a seam or crease like a Brown Bess. First we draw a mark on the side at the comb very slightly above the top of the wrist. Then we make a mark on the stock about 1" above the toe of the stock at the butt plate. We draw a straight line through those marks. This is the initial guideline for the top of the baluster wrist. On top of the comb, we draw lines from the maximum width of the butt plate at the heel to the point of the comb. We initially make that point blunt and wider than it will ultimately be. Then Maria chiseled away the appropriate wood until most excess wood was removed.
(https://i.ibb.co/WxVwRLh/Maria-rough-stocker-19.jpg) (https://ibb.co/w0cX2fk)
Then she smoothed the cuts using our Liogier gunsmith's rasp. This tool is superb and its long length allows you to reach the front of the comb without rapping your knuckles on the butt plate.
(https://i.ibb.co/qmQBDzB/Maria-rough-stocker-20.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
We do this in stages. I do not take anything down to a final profile all at once. We work down to that over time, always allowing some room for course corrections. I urge Maria to handle her gun at this point to see how it feels and gain insight about future shaping needs.
(https://i.ibb.co/gjZgjzD/Maria-rough-stocker-21.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TvMhvmH)
I think you can begin to see how elegant this fowler will ultimately be. We also drilled the stock for the forward lock bolt. Then use the side plate from Chambers English rifle kit to locate the rear lock plate bolt hol.
(https://i.ibb.co/3kwB9sp/where-we-are-2-25-2023-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/52dBg9r)
(https://i.ibb.co/dbsvYBK/where-we-are-2-25-2023-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HNLy87g)
(https://i.ibb.co/Jc5sJTn/where-we-are-2-25-2023-4.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/jhcqPhP/where-we-are-2-25-2023-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6Y3G7Y7)
(https://i.ibb.co/h73FJzn/where-we-are-2-25-2023-6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LkVdX7q)
(https://i.ibb.co/bbsjK1k/where-we-are-2-25-2023.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nP7qLrF)
dave
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This project is really progressing along quite nicely.
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Maria is like my young friend Amanda,both have a severe case of being lovely and I talked for an hour last night with my "student",
She has a system in her car that will allow a phone call without any major distractions.Her husband is in Mexico hunting geese and she
was on her way to her parents home on the coast.Pretty and intelligent young women that want to learn outside of the "curve" are a joy and delight to older and fossilizing men.It's amazing what can happen when a geezer stops to make an out of character buy at a grocery store.
Amanda is now 32,older than Maria and hopes to be at the CLA Show in August.She has a sister who is working near Lexington and she said she wanted to see all the fine work our gun makers do.She knows about my lock work and has seen pictures of a some I made,all English styles with the fancy internal mechanisms.
I have arthritis in my right shoulder but so far arthritis strength Tylenol has helped with 2 per day being the current dose.Pneumonia I had but once and do NOT want a repeat at my age.
Bob Roller
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Coming along VERY nicely Maria. You should be proud and your beautiful smile says it all.
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Maria has that look of accomplishment on her face. And rightfully so. That's one fine looking piece she's building. Hope she continues to let her pride of accomplishment show. Looking forward to seeing it finished.
Dave, maybe it's the camera angle but to me it looks like there's a touch of cast in the stock when looking from the butt end forward. Yes, no?
Hank
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Hi Hank,
Thanks for looking. The stock is straight. I think the cast in is just an illusion by the camera angle and wood that is still left on the butt stock. Maria and I have had a bit of a hiatus because of two bad snow storms preventing her getting over to the shop on the days she has off from school. We will be working today but a lot of it will be spent packing up her tools to ship to the rifle making workshop at Canter's Cave.
dave
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The progress on this gun is moving along at a smart pace ( less than 4 months ) compared to a lot of more established seasoned builders. Very good quality work too. Dedication to the job by builder and teacher.
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Hi,
Thank you all for looking and the nice comments about Maria. She is pretty special. We spent most of today preparing her tools and then packing them to ship to Ian Pratt. She should have a good set up for the rifle workshop and a nice nucleus of tools to build on in the future. We did manage to get going on slimming down the fore stock on her fowler. I've described this before but I draw two guidelines on the stock. On this gun one is 1/4" below the top edge of the barrel channel and the other is 5/16" above the edge of the ramrod channel. Using a block plane, Maria cuts even flats using those guidelines such that the fore stock looks a little like the side of an octagon barrel.
(https://i.ibb.co/Kb3Vb47/Maria-rough-stocker-22.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/SKGY8T5/Maria-rough-stocker-23.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8jtvp3N)
She planes to about 1/16" from the barrel on the top facet and leaves about 3/32" for the top of the ramrod channel. Next she rounds the flats using a pattern maker's rasp. In about 20 minutes she has one side down almost to final profile.
(https://i.ibb.co/XjSMp6N/Maria-rough-stocker-24.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/FqS1cTJ/Maria-rough-stocker-25.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Willow came in to inspect the work. She is a tough critic. Eventually, more wood will come off. As Allen Martin says, we will take off wood until scared, and then take off a little more.
dave
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Great work Dave, and regarding taking wood off, that is Exactly what Frank House told me!
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My hat's off to both the student and the teacher! Impressive, clean work.
Curtis
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Ian Pratt and Ken Gahagan are great instructors. She’ll learn a ton from them and that class is just a great atmosphere of hard work, sharing, and fun. Between the three of you that’s a pretty good roster of teachers for an apprentice to study under.
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David ,
I think some of us would give a right leg for such instruction!
(No use right arm, 'cos then we couldn't do it anyway!)
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Maria,
May you be rewarded for your dedication to learning the near-forgotten skills that our forefathers used to feed their families. Great craftsmanship is something that you can enjoy for the rest of your life.
All the best to you,
Dennis Glazener
"The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history." — George Orwell
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Hi,
Thank you all for encouraging this project. The further along this goes the better the experience becomes. Big long day today. Maria really pared down the stock. The first step was finishing shaping the other side of the fore stock.
(https://i.ibb.co/DYBwpVW/Maria-rough-stocker-26.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Then she shaped the stock between the lock and rear ramrod pipe. That was 100% pattern maker's rasp work. Next she refined the butt stock.
(https://i.ibb.co/2tqwvN9/Maria-rough-stocker-27.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SnN2trj)
(https://i.ibb.co/3svMGfX/Maria-rough-stocker-28.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
She used an old spoke shave that was my great great grand father's and probably made in the 1860s. It was the perfect tool to shape the bottom of the butt stock. Then she used an old Stanley block plane that was made during the Depression years to shave away wood from the sides of the comb. The butt stock is quite flat on either side of the comb based on the original guns we are using for models.
(https://i.ibb.co/JF0fXM1/Maria-rough-stocker-29.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k6kRYW7)
It is a invaluable to have several fine original English fowlers from the 1760s on the bench while building this one.
(https://i.ibb.co/t8Lnbz3/Maria-rough-stocker-30.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4P1Cj2J)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZfwxxRS/Maria-rough-stocker-31.jpg) (https://ibb.co/p1sdd6Q)
Maria took off a lot of wood and began final shaping the lock and wrist. With my help and the original guns as guides, she made a good start getting the basic profile right. It will be refined as we go. A lot of wood needed to come off the throat of the stock and in that process, Maria almost wiped out the mortise for the trigger plate. That is OK. The plate can be inlet deeper but it it the reason we did not pin the trigger. We knew the throat would be thinned somewhat. Inletting triggers, trigger plates, and trigger guards, and pinning them in place too early is foolish. Let the stock evolve as you want and place the parts in it rather than let the parts dictate what the stock looks like.
(https://i.ibb.co/mXgbS6c/Maria-rough-stocker-32.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7RLjb21)
(https://i.ibb.co/RTQ7H55/Maria-rough-stocker-33.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hF2C8qq)
(https://i.ibb.co/t4DXH6s/Maria-rough-stocker-34.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CzQ2wy7)
(https://i.ibb.co/WKrB47k/Maria-rough-stocker-35.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GPZC4GW)
The stock is still evolving and will be refined more as we go. The angle of the baluster wrist still needs work but the fowler is coming out of its shell. It will be elegant and fits Maria well.
(https://i.ibb.co/vX64BMR/maria-sharpshooter-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cYShvsV)
dave
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Wow impressive!! She's doing a great job!! That fowler is turning out to be a beauty!!
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Yep, definitely an advantage to have originals just laying around, gettin' in the way! ::)
Dave, will you be printing out all these posts to go along with the gun? A small (or not so small) album documenting the process of course. Unless Maria can show some 'proof', no one will believe she has built that fowler.
Maybe give her a small mallet to carry around too, just to get the point across? Or better yet, have her make own 'mallet of persuasion'. Then she can make it whatever size she thinks it needs to be ;)
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It's very pleasing to the eye, just as it is, at this stage
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You guys have come so far, and the gun is really taking shape.
Dave, I didn't know you would not be seeing the gun build through to completion, though it has been a semester already. I am sure Ian and Maria will do it justice.
I can't describe how I would feel having come so far along with a wonderful student on a wonderful project and not to see it completed. Part of being a teacher, I suppose.
Congratulations to the both of you.
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Hi and thanks everyone,
Bob, Maria and I will finish her fowler in my shop. She will be working on a rifle at the workshop with Ian and Ken. I believe it will be a copy of RCA #46, the famous Albrecht rifle he probably made in Lititz, PA. We will finish that rifle in my shop as well.
dave
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The budding gunsmith has become a blooming gunsmith. Fantastic work Maria!
TC
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She will be working on a rifle at the workshop with Ian and Ken. I believe it will be a copy of RCA #46, the famous Albrecht rifle he probably made in Lititz, PA. We will finish that rifle in my shop as well.
dave
Oh man, I was registered for Ian and Ken's class and have all the parts to build the Albrecht, but had to drop out due to a broken leg. Mine will have to wait until next year.
As mentioned earlier, looking at originals is very helpful, and last year at that class was my first hands - on experience. I think there were 25 original and contemporary rifles and fowlers on display and it was a huge education to get to handle them.
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She will be working on a rifle at the workshop with Ian and Ken. I believe it will be a copy of RCA #46, the famous Albrecht rifle he probably made in Lititz, PA. We will finish that rifle in my shop as well.
dave
Oh man, I was registered for Ian and Ken's class and have all the parts to build the Albrecht, but had to drop out due to a broken leg. Mine will have to wait until next year.
As mentioned earlier, looking at originals is very helpful, and last year at that class was my first hands - on experience. I think there were 25 original and contemporary rifles and fowlers on display and it was a huge education to get to handle them.
I make no claims to be a rifle builder but when I started getting interested in muzzle loaders in 1951 there were only antiques seen and most of them were not in good condition.Handling and closely examining old ones is the only way.I restocked a wrecked full stock rifle in the wood work shop in High School and built 2 half stock styles in 22 caliber and a retired charter pilot called me several years ago and said he had one of them.P.I.Spence made the lock and 3 years later I met him and he gave me a sheet of 1075 spring steel.He was about 95 then and owned a machine shop that was then dormant.Smart Dog has a treasure with Maria and she obviously is a quick study on the use of tools and that in itself along with her interest in the long guns is indeed a good thing.
Bob Roller
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Hi Folks,
More done today. We really pared back the stock closer to final form. Ouch, I got a splinter!
(https://i.ibb.co/7WyZswz/Maria-rough-stocker-36.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6PsTj3Z)
Maria's dreams of becoming a hand model have been quashed by this project :D. Rasping away wood.
(https://i.ibb.co/qMh3nwc/Maria-rough-stocker-37.jpg) (https://ibb.co/svcdPrN)
I showed her how to shape the subtle "schnable" at the muzzle end of the stock. It will eventually be thinner and more subtle when we are done. Many guys shape this way too extreme. It is subtle.
(https://i.ibb.co/Pt3KWM7/Maria-rough-stocker-38.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jHBmwzc)
Next, roughing out the lock and side plate panels. Using a 1/4" gouge to cut the tight radius cove around the front of the panel but a much shallower sweep to cut the shallow cove angling down from the barrel channel, which she then smooths with round scrapers.
(https://i.ibb.co/N2n0kQW/Maria-rough-stocker-39.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/xLTKJZ7/Maria-rough-stocker-40.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JtJW5Zs)
We also shaped the breech area of the stock giving it an elegant design typical of well made fowlers from the time period. Here is where we are. Note how thin the wood is on the sides of the barrel channel. It will get thinner yet. Look at the extra length of the barrel keys. They were flush with the wood when we started today.
(https://i.ibb.co/6yhYWJR/Maria-rough-stocker-41.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rQPkwfG)
(https://i.ibb.co/5TDHm7L/Maria-rough-stocker-42.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kKnCjdX)
(https://i.ibb.co/hchjKFH/Maria-rough-stocker-43.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/vmY7XPm/Maria-rough-stocker-44.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DkpxrCk)
(https://i.ibb.co/9mPtHPv/Maria-rough-stocker-45.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xKZHqZs)
(https://i.ibb.co/5xcDFXd/Maria-rough-stocker-46.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wr6HsZT)
(https://i.ibb.co/F3VSCPF/Maria-rough-stocker-47.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/L9S9mGY/Maria-rough-stocker-48.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tYBYgdQ)
(https://i.ibb.co/HFFdYbx/Maria-rough-stocker-49.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cggLtZC)
(https://i.ibb.co/Fsrscv1/Maria-rough-stocker-50.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CJcJ4dy)
The flats around the lock will become vanishingly small when we are done. We just leave them for now. Next up, we figure out the trigger guard and shape the bottom of the lock area.
dave
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Her stock-work is really turning out fine...the forend is really looking good with no noticeable whoop=de=doos and not bulky. It would be great to study under a master and have that kind of guidance.
Cheers Richard
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Gotta love that humped tang.
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Hi,
Well our last session before Maria heads to Ohio for the rifle workshop with Ian Pratt and Ken Gahagan. She needed a leather strop, so we made some. I had a perfect sized piece of old-growth Sitka spruce from Alaska. This is wood in which within the 2" width of the piece there are 73 growth rings. Anyway, my strop made for me by my dad 40 years ago is pretty beat up and needs the leather replaced, which I will do. However, I decided to make one for myself too. I have good heavy leather and away we went. We cut the chunk in half thickness wise and shaped the strops with the band saw, rasps, and belt sander. Then we placed double sided carpet tape on the top, cut the leather to fit, and applied it to the tape, burnishing it down with a steel ruler. We coated the wood with Sutherland-Welles tung oil wiping varnish, let dry, and then charged the leather with green rouge polishing compound. The nice thing about using the carpet tape is you can remove the leather when cut and worn and replace it easily.
(https://i.ibb.co/8cL94BR/strop-making.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
We are at the point where the side plate needs to be inlet. Maria really likes the silver side plate I made for my personal fowler shown below.
(https://i.ibb.co/2dtFymV/finished-fowler-16.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NKjFsQD)
But here is the rub. Her gun is supposed to represent one exported from England and owned by a NE colonist with the means to purchase such a modest gun. They were not particularly expensive and many were acquired but they would not be mounted in silver and the decoration would be much more modest. So we discussed designing the appropriate decoration and casting it in brass. However, Maria really wanted iron or steel mounts rather than brass. So that presented us some tradeoffs. We could explore her decorative ideas more fully with non ferrous metals but if she insisted on iron or steel, our options were much more limited. She wanted steel mounts so I went with that and used her decision to create a series of teachable moments. The trigger guard will be a post itself so I won't go there right now. The side plate needs to be inlet now and Maria and I had to resolve the issue. She could not have a sculpted plate like on my fowler because that would be really difficult and time consuming made in steel. Moreover, it is not appropriate for the modest gun she is making. So we opted for the side plate offered by Chambers for their English fowler and English rifle kits. Unfortunately, it is not a perfect fit. So we made some changes. The tail of the side plate dropped too low.
(https://i.ibb.co/S0LwH1R/Maria-rough-stocker-41.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jGpkqxg)
We changed that by cutting into the side plate with a jeweler's saw. Then heated the plate at the juncture red hot and bent the rear up at the cut with pliers. That did the job. We also added some details to the side plate to make it look a bit more sophisticated. Then Maria, filed the edges and made it ready for inletting.
(https://i.ibb.co/McCBVNc/sideplate-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/y6Q4ys6)
(https://i.ibb.co/R721ckQ/sideplate-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/fQMbHzr)
(https://i.ibb.co/23z54w1/sideplate-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/s9TtYhd)
(https://i.ibb.co/C7RQxP6/sideplate-1.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/b1VcYzb/sideplate-2.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
When she comes back from Ohio, we will inlet the plate.
dave
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Outstanding job you two are doing. Thanks for sharing the journey with us. It’s alway a pleasure to see a talented young person”s work. Congratulations to both of you.
Bob
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Hi Folks,
Kind of a long hiatus as Maria attended the Canter's Cave rifle making workshop with Ken Gahagan and Ian Pratt. She had a great time there and really appreciated the instruction by Ken and Ian. Maria fully recognizes the opportunity she was given and came home a much better gun maker. She just cannot stop smiling thinking about Ken's Formula 1 driving of a Walmart motorized shopping cart or Ian's bonzai riding of the wheeled carts in the shop. It was an experience she will never forget.
Back in my shop, it was time to inlet her fowler side plate. Maria had previously refined the plate and filed draft on the edges. Now it was time to cut the mortise. First, she scribed the outline of the plate using my inletting knife.
(https://i.ibb.co/pbFwfhM/sideplate-7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YPsQc01)
(https://i.ibb.co/fS99mhK/inletting-knife.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GJ99gK1)
Once lightly scribed, she stabbed in the borders.
(https://i.ibb.co/Y04gKHZ/sideplate-8.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/z6ZwPDw/sideplate-9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/41px43x)
Then she back cut the edges and removed the wood from the mortise, which is only about 1/16" deep.
(https://i.ibb.co/y5zWZWQ/sideplate-10.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QnWrTrK)
(https://i.ibb.co/HXP1TJL/sideplate-11.jpg) (https://ibb.co/25Mm3b0)
And she was done. This was the first side plate she ever inlet. She had one small chip come out near the tail of the side plate, which we will fix. She did a superb job.
dave
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WOW - have to have patience for that quality of work.
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Very neat work Dave.
Congrats to you both!!
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Good gracious. That is a heck of a first sideplate to inlet, and she did a commendable job. Please share my appreciation with Maria. What a team. God Bless, Marc
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WOW - have to have patience for that quality of work.
The patience of a statue and the skill of a surgeon.How long did this take.Any error in a cut here would stand out like a goose egg
in a bucket of coal.
Bob Roller
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WOW - have to have patience for that quality of work.
The patience of a statue and the skill of a surgeon.How long did this take.Any error in a cut here would stand out like a goose egg
in a bucket of coal.
Bob Roller
Bob Roller,
It took me about 5 hours total. Lots of time spent fretting and wanting it to be perfect, taking a break to have a cup of tea and talk history with Dave, and time spent playing with the dog, which subtracting that all gets the time down to a little less than 4 hours I believe. (The 4 hours is also counting re-drilling and tapping for the rear lock bolt as well. That took some time as the bolt was not cooperating and we had to pick and thread a new one.)
-Maria
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Welcome to the forum, Maria. ;)
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Hi,
Thank you all for looking and your encouragement for Maria. Today we started cutting the lock moldings. The Brits did not fuss over them like some Germanic makers and modern makers. They did not worry about tight and precise cove moldings, complicated details with respect to the beaver tails or nose of the lock panels. They did not even worry about the panels being symmetrical or even tying them in with carving around the standing breech. Typically, the molding was prominent around the tail of the lock and the tear drop beaver tail, but often just faded out as it approached the nose of the lock panel and the bolster of the lock near the breech.
(https://i.ibb.co/2c25Fvz/Heylin-gun-tang-carving-beaver-tail-lock-removed.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QYBXJPW)
(https://i.ibb.co/5jHVG5j/Heylin-gun-underside-of-beaver-tail-view.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hdzvLKd)
(https://i.ibb.co/ysmBvV7/Kibler-gun-beaver-tail-view.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nkq8dRt)
(https://i.ibb.co/C7jC4td/Kibler-gun-trigger-guard-closeup-view.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HzcwR2v)
So on Maria's gun, we followed the same style. We finalized the macro shaping of the lock and side plate panels and then penciled in the outside border of the molding surrounding the lock.
(https://i.ibb.co/GHWMcCy/cutting-lock-panels-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9Zb4sy6)
Most modern builders seem incapable of producing authentic lock moldings for English fowlers. They just cannot conceive how thin they were on mid 18th century guns. Anyway, I am teaching Maria how to get them right. After outlining the molding, Maria stabbed in the edges and removed the background.
(https://i.ibb.co/zxcr4Mq/cutting-lock-panels.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pwDxL7Y)
(https://i.ibb.co/XF0gsZv/cutting-lock-panels-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mhZwqCM)
(https://i.ibb.co/s5fNXrM/cutting-lock-panels-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZHjFbCk)
(https://i.ibb.co/z7YNs5N/cutting-lock-panels-6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vQGD1BD)
She did the lock side and then started on the side plate side. We transferred the outline of the moldings to the side plate side by making a rubbing of the lock side and using it as a template for the other side.
(https://i.ibb.co/3dC5tjs/cutting-lock-panels-5.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
The lock bolts registered its position on the other side. Then she traced it and drew her guidelines for the side plate moldings. On most British guns the moldings are not mirror images but they start and stop at the same places on the stock. We ended the day with Maria starting to cut the molding on the side plate side.
dave
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That is outstanding workmanship,I'm inching to see the end results.
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Yeah- not only this, but her next build!! :o
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Maria, it does not get any better than that.
CheersRichard
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Lovely work Maria!
You have a top flight teacher!
With it fixed i your head how a gun Should look, you will know in an instant if a gun is 'off" or not.
As Dave suggests, there are many that are 'off'.
It must be a great pleasure to Dave, to have an apprentice as smart as you!
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Hi folks,
Thanks for supporting and encouraging Maria. I know many on this forum would like to hear from her but she is so busy. She has 2 more months of high school including band, chorus and running the school newspaper. She works 3 days a week at a horse stable, 2 days at a restaurant, and 2 with me. She quit varsity basketball to work with me. When she has time she is reenacting with Warner's Green Mountain Boys and sewing her 18th century kit. As you might imagine, she does not watch TV or waste her time with computer games. She leaves those useless distractions for the "boys" she knows. Anyway, we made more progress finishing her gun. You can see how elegant it will be.
(https://i.ibb.co/jGsQs0X/Maria-stock-finisher-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/82tftvZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/nf679Xt/Maria-stock-finisher-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/K7b2dtS)
(https://i.ibb.co/c6Nnqvv/Maria-stock-finisher-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/F5BTpWW)
(https://i.ibb.co/vJBQq2f/Maria-stock-finisher-4.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/wNLR4FF/Maria-stock-finisher-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JRdKHww)
We moved on to the trigger guard. The commercially available trigger guards for English fowlers are pathetic. There used to be a small bowed urn finial guard sold on all the major sites and by Chambers. It was the only guard that met any historical standards. All the others had bows too big and in the case of the acorn finials, they looked to be designed by shriveled, myopic, Mr. MaGoo. Pathetic. I found a supplier that still had the smaller bowed urn guards in steel and I bought 3. I might just buy them out. However, even that guard lacks certain historical details. The most important is the bow should be egg shaped not an even oval. The egg shape creates a lot of space in front of the trigger for your finger. The photo below shows 3 guards. The top is the currently available version with oversized bow. the second is the raw guard before we altered it, and the third is our altered guard for the fowler.
(https://i.ibb.co/s5jKBVk/triggerguard-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gvySnRH)
We had to move the forward lug further forward to avoid the trigger plate. We cut it off and welded it in place at its new position. I tacked it in place to hold it, then welded a fillet on the one side. Then I gave it to Maria to weld the fillet on the other side. She did a fine job for her second weld.
(https://i.ibb.co/ZKHyn87/triggerguard-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tcZy7sF)
Here she is shouldering her gun. An elegant gun to match the owner.
dave
(https://i.ibb.co/9p2BCXw/maria-sharpshooter-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kG0zWn3)
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Keep up the good work, young lady!!
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Keep up the good work, young lady!!
Yes!How many of US at 18 years of age had any ideas about making such a gun and if we did, would we have done it.The restocking of a banged up antique I mentioned was done when I was 17 and the 22 caliber guns when I was 18.The first serious muzzle loader I made was
at age 22,a half stock 58 caliber rifle that was very accurate and looked like a Northeastern gun with its dark walnut stock and silver buttplate and trigger guard.
Maria has demonstrated skill prompted by an unusual level of interest and we all should compliment her on her ability to find and use the skills she may have not been aware of until she picked up tools and did it.Keep it up,young lady,You have Brains,beauty and skills to do any thing you set out to do.Go for it!
Bob Roller
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Hi,
Our work slowed down a bit owing to Maria's schedule. She inlet the trigger guard and here lies a tale. The selection of trigger guards for English fowlers has hit rock bottom these last few years particularly ones cast in steel. The selection from the main suppliers is very limited and I don't know what hardware they copied, but it doesn't look like anything I've examined on original guns. The trigger bows are too large and misshaped. I found one supplier that had steel guards with small ribbed bows and the husk finial. They used to be readily available but no more. I bought 3 and now they are no longer listed. Anyway, Maria inlet the trigger guard. Before she did, we had to shape the bow into an egg-shaped loop rather than an even oval. The top guard is the current commercial offering that is large and has no ribbing on the bow. The middle guard is the smaller version we used to be able to get. The bottom guard is the same but reshaped and prepared for inletting.
(https://i.ibb.co/QFc2wcs/triggerguard-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xSspTsV)
Cast steel guards are a pain because the steel remains springy even when fully annealed. Unlike brass guards, you really have to bend them in vise, often using heat while bending to get them to set down on the wood and even then the steel fights you. With annealed brass, you can usually push the guard down on to the wood with your fingers. We start by filing a recess on the bottom of the front of the guard where it overlaps the trigger plate. That allows the guard to set into the wood mortise despite the trigger plate being almost flush with the surface of the stock. Then we cleaned up the guard and filed draft along the edges. We also curved the front finial slightly in cross section, and hollowed out the underside to conform to the stock. Finally, we moved the front lug further forward to avoid the trigger plate.
We start by cutting in the the slots for the lugs. She drills 3 holes in a line, cuts the ends and sides of the slot with flat chisels and then removes the bulk of the wood with a router bit in a Dremel. It is best to cut the rear 2 slots so there is excess length in the forward end because as the guard is pushed into its mortise, it tends to migrate forward. Maria inlet inletting the front finial first.
(https://i.ibb.co/sWLHzgf/triggerguard-3.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/jygyRv6/triggerguard-5.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
I know this guard gives some folks pause but it really is not hard to inlet with the aid of small stab in chisels and small skew chisels. The mortise is only about 1/16" deep, just enough to mostly cover the edges of the guard. It is foolish to inlet this kind of guard before the stock is pared down to its final profile. Once the front is in and pinned, she begins to cut the rear mortise. It is best not to outline and stab in the edges of the entire rear of the guard in one shot. Just do the forward 1/3, set the guard in a little, then trace the next 1/3, cut it in, and leave the rear 1/3 of the guard until last. That way, as you push the guard into the mortise and it migrates a little forward, you don't end up with a gap at the end.
(https://i.ibb.co/C0YMSYg/triggerguard-4.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/WvF2MRZ/Maria-stock-finisher-9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/k20SwPj)
We pinned the rare lug but did do so for the middle lug. Unfortunately that lug sits right where the screw should be for the wrist escutcheon plate. We are going to consider 2 options for anchoring the plate. The easiest would be to just pin the plate to the wrist and pin the guard lug. However, another option is to install the screw entering from under the trigger guard that usually attaches wrist plates on English fowlers and have the rear guard lug simply hook on to the head of that bolt. Maria has to cast her wrist plate so once it is made, we will decide on our course. In the meantime she finished most of the stock shaping.
(https://i.ibb.co/6RycnNw/Maria-stock-finisher-6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WWHNxs5)
(https://i.ibb.co/tPvy6JB/maria-sharpshooter-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/84fFw7M)
(https://i.ibb.co/m58RvxG/Maria-stock-finisher-7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GQTdsh0)
(https://i.ibb.co/pxF2Nzc/Maria-stock-finisher-8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hyzsrWb)
(https://i.ibb.co/yV3XSJx/Maria-stock-finisher-10.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mSxG87P)
Then we took a tea break, sat down, enjoyed the scene and talked British guns while examining a pair of original Wodgon dueling pistols.
(https://i.ibb.co/WPvhrWS/Green-Mountain-Girl.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4YRqbZB)
Green Mountain Girl trying to decide if the pistols fit better in her left or right hand.
dave
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Dave, when I started making MLs, all I had to go on was Dixon's book.
if I would have had this wonderful tutorial, I would be years ahead. Excellent job. Congratulations to you both.
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haha! Impressive, and formidable, young woman. Whether wielding inletting chisels, or a pair of pistols!
And also encouraging to hear that at least some younger people are looking for activities that are more rewarding and long-lasting than just video games and (dis)social media.
Well done to you both!
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An amazingly inspirational thread!! 8)
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Hi,
We started carving the shell around the barrel tang. That will be the only carving on this gun, as it should be. First, we did a paper rubbing of the carving on the Heylin fowler in my possession. We just did one half. The Maria traced the rubbing on to card stock using carbon paper. Next, she cut out the card stock tracing and we taped it on the stock.
(https://i.ibb.co/55t8DsR/carving-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Hr1zvGH)
The Heylin design is a little too wide and long for Maria's stock so we traced the shell on the stock but contracted the forward decoration to fit her stock. Here is the fully traced design on the stock.
(https://i.ibb.co/c2n3qXQ/carving-2.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/1MPRk0R/carving-3.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
We may simplify the forward ends if they are too busy and don't really fit well. The Heylin barrel is wider at the breech so we have less space in which to work. It may be that we have simple tendrils going forward that fade out in a simple scroll. Regardless, Maria stabbed in the current design. When I stab in an intricate design, I walk the tiny stab in chisel forward along my line by always making sure the rear edge of the chisel is in the incised line I just made and then rocking the tool forward to create a new segment of stabbed in line. That way the line is smooth and continuous rather than jagged. Maria acquired that skill very quickly.
(https://i.ibb.co/jzYrTqj/carving-4.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/TLwXTHV/carving-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3zTXs0D)
After stabbing in the outer edge of the carving design, she relieved the background. She likes my palm chisels so I started her using a small palm skew chisel to remove background.
(https://i.ibb.co/Y7FsxCq/carving-6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/svdYZfM)
However, my method of teaching is to let the student work with a tool for a while to discover its strengths and weaknesses, and then I introduce a new tool for comparison. That way they learn the differences and develop their own preferences. In this case, I introduced a full length skew chisel to Maria for removing the background. I have very strong hands but severe nerve damage in my fingers. I cannot position full length chisels very quickly like palm chisels so I use the latter. But that is me and Maria is different. She quickly discovered that she likd the full length skew chisel much better. It gives her more control and power.
(https://i.ibb.co/xFnb7s5/carving-7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wcnqzL6)
(https://i.ibb.co/Gkv86yf/carving-8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TRB7f6D)
Finally, for tight sections, she still needed small chisels like this tiny skew.
(https://i.ibb.co/Dkpmk2G/carving-9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/vmYfmns)
Her outlining came out great and we are on our way. Not to bad a start for her first carving.
(https://i.ibb.co/fGMNQqX/carving-10.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
She will ouline the inner edges of the carving and then we will leave it until after whiskering the stock. When that is done, she will carve the details just prior to staining.
dave
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Outstanding work for her first time. She’s getting a solid foundation in craftsmanship.
Cheers Richard
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That 'lil gal definitely has talent. If talent isn't there any level of coaching proves futile. No doubt she is getting excellent coaching. Maria is not only creating a finely crafted fowling piece, she is creating memories that will last a lifetime.
Hank
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This is so cool. Wish I’d had access to a mentor like you in high school. Can’t wait to see the finished gun.
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Hi Folks,
Thank you all for encouraging Maria. She made her final choice on May 1 to attend Siena College in NY. An exciting milestone for her. Today we began making her wrist escutcheon. I loaned her my old copy of Great British Gunmakers by Neal and Back and she used it as inspiration for her own design. Here is what she came up with.
(https://i.ibb.co/wQR5M9k/wrist-plate-design.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZgVqWnj)
It was ambitious and I warned her she would need to carve that complex of acanthus leaves at the bottom. I suspected rightly that it would present an obstacle but that is part of learning. So we went forward with her design and took a slab of green carving wax, hollowed out the back and glued it to a piece of PVC pipe. Then we rounded the top as well. When that was done, we glued her paper pattern on the wax and she pricked the main lines and details into the wax through the paper using a needle held in a pin vise handle. When that was done, we removed the paper pattern and she carved the outline of the escutcheon in the wax.
(https://i.ibb.co/kgG8Brr/wrist-plate-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/QFJNQqq)
Unfortunately, carving those delicate leaves caused a break in the thin wax at the bottom and another break occurred at the top. No worries, wax can be repaired by melting more wax on top. We decided to just lump some extra wax on some of the fragile leaves and carve the details after casting the plate in silver. Metal is stronger and can preserve fine details better. So she finished the wax as best she could and then we carved/chipped it off the PVC.
(https://i.ibb.co/cT8LPQc/wrist-plate-2.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Next, Maria made the Delft clay mold.
(https://i.ibb.co/h1gjcy2/wrist-plate-4.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/fqXdmsD/wrist-plate-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/34TmtnR)
Then we heated sterling silver in a crucible using my oxy-acetylene torch and poured the mold.
(https://i.ibb.co/kJxP0sc/wrist-plate-5.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
It took 3 tries to get it right. I could not figure out why it did not work the first time. I was using sterling silver melted from sheet silver and had some problems with it in past castings. On the third try, I added 50% fresh casting grain and the rest the melted sheet silver. It worked great. I believe the melted casting grain flowed into the mold better. Anyway, we now have an escutcheon with which we can work to engrave and carve the details.
(https://i.ibb.co/RQts0yb/wrist-plate-6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HGRbzd4)
While letting the mold cool, Maria did some final shaping of the stock and began the whiskering process. We stained the stock red with scarlet aniline dye dissolved in water. When she has scraped and sanded off all the color, she has whiskered the entire stock. Then we will finish the barrel tang carving and inlet the wrist plate.
(https://i.ibb.co/5RcZb0H/whiskering-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/BCsk0pM)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZJNFK45/whiskering-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/xs3BG9W)
dave
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This has been a most enjoyable follow along. Visually and educationally. Thanks again foe letting us in on the fun.
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I have learned and relearned many things from both of you. I hope I can retain it.
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This is a Great thread, Thanks for taking the time to take Pix and writing it up. My hat is off to both of you.
Tim
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David,
A couple of thoughts about the silver casting.....Melting thin sterling with an oxy / acetylene torch will often burn out a fair amount of the 7.5% copper in the alloy. The copper in the alloy not only makes the silver stronger but also reduces the viscosity in the molten state allowing the alloy to flow much more freely. When you added the fresh casting shot, you probably brought the copper content back up. I do mostly centrifugal castings so it is not as much of an issue for me as the centrifugal force moving the metal into the mold is much greater than the 1 G gravitation force of a pour......and my mold is at 1100 F which is a huge help in keeping the metal flowing into fine detail without the mold itself drawing heat away.
I also use a Prest-o-Lite torch for most castings. It burns air and acetylene which has two advantages: The flame temperature is lower helping to not overheat the casting material, and second, by using air as the oxidizer rather than pure oxygen, there is a much lower chance of burning (or oxidizing) any of the alloying metals out of sterling silver, gold alloys, copper alloys, etc. Also, unlike gold, silver will absorb a considerable amount of oxygen in the molten state. When it solidifies, the oxygen is released and can result in a substantial amount of porosity as the metal transitions from the liquidus to the solidus state. Molten silver will not only pick up oxygen from the flame of the torch but from the surrounding air if kept in the molten state too long. In silver, I try to make the casting the instant the melt is fluid enough to minimize the absorption of oxygen from the surrounding air.
Please pass along my most sincere congratulations and encouragement to Maria (and you as the instructor) on her project. It is a great joy to watch her progress and folow along on this thread.
Best,
David
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davec2...I found your recent post most enlightening. That's what I really enjoy about this site...you follow a thread and then someone makes a post that provides information about a subject you've wondered about for years. Everyone just shares information with one another just like smart dog is doing with Maria. Keep it coming.
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Centrifuge casting works great for small pieces, but vacuum casting is better for larger ones. For silver anyway. About the only equipment you need is a vacuum pump. The rest can be cobbled together pretty easy. A boric acid will help a lot with silver casting, and soldering. Acetylene is not a very good gas for casting. It causes all sorts of problems. Propane or natural gas is much better. Hydrogen is ideal but comes with its own issues. The tanks are hard to get, expensive, and they ALWAYS leak. Water torches are great, but expensive. Pure gold will not soak up any oxygen but gold alloys certainly do. An electric melting pot also works good for casting.
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this build thread just keeps getting better and better. the best to both of you.
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Hi Guys,
Thank you Dave and Bill. In the next casting, I am going to melt it in a crucible in my oven, which should eliminate any problems with acetylene or over heating. I usually use the torch for small jobs because it is convenient butt I also have large and small crucibles.
dave
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I had the pleasure of meeting Maria at the Ohio Gun builders class. Her skill was self evident , she was dedicated and hardworking, you can tell she has had a great teacher. I was quite impressed by her inletting, with each audible snap of each part. Hopefully she continues to pursue this art. Keep up the fine instruction, after all passing on your knowledge to an Apprentice is the greatest/important thing any member can do to persevere the History/Art.
I hope you inspire others to take people under their wing!
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Hi,
Jdbeck, thank you for your comment about Maria and it is true. She is dedicated, smart, and learns very fast. I enjoy our time in the shop together very much. Thank you again Bill and Dave for the advice on casting. I put it to use immediately. This won't be a big post. Maria scraped and sanded off the pink stain and when done had completed the finish smoothing and cleanup for the stock.
(https://i.ibb.co/jW7P0sN/Maria-stock-finisher-11.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4YBnv3q)
(https://i.ibb.co/4dY5YRM/Maria-stock-finisher-12.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9tVCVH2)
(https://i.ibb.co/qsFp9YL/Maria-stock-finisher-13.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
She shaped the lock and side plate moldings into a narrow bead with no actual flat. We also made sure the breech area of the stock was contoured flush with the standing breech.
(https://i.ibb.co/377ZRKz/Maria-stock-finisher-14.jpg) (https://ibb.co/1LLWzc6)
I decided that the cast wrist plate we made on Saturday was not going to work. It was a little too wide for the wrist of the stock and the leaf design at the bottom was too complicated to sculpt well given the final thickness that the plate had to have. So on Sunday, I carved a narrower design in hard maple and then cast it. I used my oven and crucible for heating the silver and added fresh casting grain to the mix. It came out well. Today, while Maria cleaned up the stock, I began the process of sculpting the cast plate with die sinker's chisels and my Lindsay Airgraver. After a while I introduced Maria to those tools and let her have at the plate. She did well but appreciates the skill and challenge involved. Anyway, the new plate will look great when we are done shaping and polishing it.
(https://i.ibb.co/gP1CYjy/Maria-stock-finisher-15.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Next up, she inlets the wrist plate and finishes the carving around the standing breech. Then stain and finish and we are on the final stretch.
dave
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Excellent! What an amazing adventure with an equally amazing young artist and her mentor.
Hank
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Hi,
Just a short post. I worked on finishing the wrist plate. Maria will work on the final details but I needed to get us moving and it will take time for her to acquire the metal working skills. This stuff is not easy. Anyway, here is the plate on Saturday.
(https://i.ibb.co/gP1CYjy/Maria-stock-finisher-15.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Here it is today.
(https://i.ibb.co/PNbnnmh/wrist-plate-7.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/RNxRryH/wrist-plate-8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ypwHvSs)
My preliminary polish always shows up rough areas that have to be worked on. There are also some engraving needed before it goes into the wood. However, you can see what a fine wrist plate it will be. Hopefully, in the next session, she will inlet it and get to work on the breech carving.
dave
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This whole thread is great, but Dave you need to do a full tutorial on the silver casting process from wax to finished!
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What an amazing journey to follow along with. Maria is an amazing student who has an excellent tutor.
If I may ask, what is the purpose of the red dye? Is it to assist in getting all areas sanded smooth and free of tool marks?
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Hi,
We did not get quite as much done today as I hoped but we are on the home stretch. Maria inlet the wrist plate. This is the first one she has ever done but she now has excellent inletting skills. I find the easiest way is to gouge out the a portion of the center of the mortise so the plate sits flatter on the stock.
(https://i.ibb.co/N941mNC/wrist-plate-14.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6Hdv1tw)
Then trace the plate with pencil. On this plate, we started inletting the top half first working down to the bottom as the plate set in deeper.
(https://i.ibb.co/PgZtBkx/wrist-plate-10.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WfWsSCn)
Maria was in a horse competion the evening before where she won ribbons for barrel riding and other events. She was telling me all about the event as she was putting inletting black on the wrist plate. She just kept talking and absent mindedly slathering it on and I let her do it knowing the mess that would result. She got back at me by smearing some on my face.
(https://i.ibb.co/Y8bbSdd/wrist-plate-11.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Np77qNN)
Eventually the plate sat down nicely in the mortise. We don't have a bolster on this plate for a screw coming up from under the trigger guard. We are simply going to pin the plate. The middle lug of the guard would interfere with that screw. It came out well.
(https://i.ibb.co/cCLXp06/wrist-plate-12.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/qgTMQHs/wrist-plate-13.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bvcg94B)
We moved on to carving the rococo shell. Maria removed background on the inside of the design.
(https://i.ibb.co/fD7nfSV/carving-breech-design-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Z2CY5JR)
(https://i.ibb.co/9vFzpzJ/carving-breech-design-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VN7rLrd)
We ended the day with her drawing in the details in the shell to be cut next time.
(https://i.ibb.co/Jr6ymFk/carving-breech-design-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/CVCMms0)
dave
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Hi,
We had a shorter day today so we did not get everything done I wanted to accomplish. That is OK. Maria has never carved a design like this on a gunstock before. She got some carving experience doing the lock panels and carving the wax model for the wrist plate. However, this is her first relief carving on a stock. She had the edges of the carving already cut and background removed. Today she did most of the detailing using small gouges, small skew chisels, small round scrapers, and a little bit of riffler work. First, she carved the concave surfaces of the shell. We are closely copying the Heylin fowler with a few changes.
(https://i.ibb.co/N2f6mmw/carving-breech-design-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b5Yg22p)
(https://i.ibb.co/5nYzRMN/carving-breech-design-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b2HyKWS)
Then she went back and smoothed the details and worked forward on the design. She worked slowly because she never did this before. This is where we ended up for today.
(https://i.ibb.co/ss1tSmb/carving-breech-design-6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ygkVTfd)
(https://i.ibb.co/4NNcY76/carving-breech-design-7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RHH1B9x)
(https://i.ibb.co/8YWcTC8/carving-breech-design-8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SfhrWjv)
We still have some detailing and refining to do but she did a great job on her first relief carved design. The fowler is almost done and you can see how elegant it will be.
(https://i.ibb.co/JqsM5Jc/carving-breech-design-9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3vCLBZT)
dave
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That's a bonny shell, Dave!
Please pass on my compliments to Maria!
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Maria combines a rare mix of interest,skill,brains and beauty and these picture prove it.I hope she continues with this as a hobbyist.
I also have a lovely young lady in my life but her interest is military history and WW2 is her focus and I told her of the people I met and
knew from that time frame and some were NOT our friends in that time.Her name is Amanda and stays in contact with me by phone and Email.
Bob Roller
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The carving is looking very nice.
My compliments,
Jeff
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Wow! Very nice....that is very nice. This is not easy work. Congratulations.
CheersRichard
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Hello All,
Another day in the shop completed and what an exciting one it was! The first small portion of the day was spent staining my stock. We tested some different stains on some of my scrap wood and then chose which one I liked best. (This is why it is important to keep the pieces you chop off guys!) The stain chosen was mixed from 4 different water-soluble aniline dyes from Brownells; scarlet, resorcin brown, tartrazine, and nigrosine. I painted the stain on the stock.
(https://i.ibb.co/XJBP4H0/received-214418688118105.jpg) (https://ibb.co/q1G8n6q)
(https://i.ibb.co/n7K5024/Maria-stock-finisher-22.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m9PMBsd)
Dave and I then performed his ritual of spinning around three times reciting the Pledge of Allegiance backwards, whilst burning some sage and sniffing acetone so the stain would come out correctly. As many have seen with his work, his stains are beautiful, so obviously the ritual works and should not be questioned (nor performed at home). We let the stain dry outside in the sun and painted it with some alkanet root dye.
(https://i.ibb.co/jy99NQb/received-752711529820413.jpg) (https://ibb.co/McyyvtZ)
This really emphasizes the figure in the grain and adds to the beautiful, rich, red brown color.
After letting the alkanet root dye dry I put the first layer of finish on. For the finish I am using Southerland Wells' Medium Sheen Polymerized Tung Oil. I diluted the finish 1 to 1 with Turpentine and applied the finish while lightly sanding with some 220 grit wet-dry sandpaper: creating a brown slurry.
(https://i.ibb.co/WFTV7VW/Maria-stock-finisher-18.jpg) (https://ibb.co/XpwY6YZ)
The slurry really helps seal up the pores of the wood and then it dries creating a crust that will be sanded off prior to another layer of finish.
(https://i.ibb.co/LkqhGqS/Maria-stock-finisher-19.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Gx13h17)
(https://i.ibb.co/4mD2SZk/Maria-stock-finisher-20.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
I waited and watched the finish dry for a while before putting it out in the sun.
(https://i.ibb.co/T0N3NSq/barrel-finishing-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DMj2jyg)
(https://i.ibb.co/FmpBSby/barrel-finishing-2.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
While my stock was drying, I got to work polishing up the barrel and sideplate. I did some draw filing on the octagonal flats of the barrel and then moved on to 220 grit wet sandpaper and did some barrel-shining.
(https://i.ibb.co/471MZN9/polishing-sideplate-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZV2K6Tt)
(https://i.ibb.co/b75FzNB/polishing-sideplate-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wYh7MpW)
The sideplate took some finesse and a lot of patience (as to which Dave will tell you I do not have) to polish but will turn out to be quite stunning once done.
I can't believe this project is almost done. It is quite bittersweet.
-Maria
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I don’t think you are “almost done”
I think you are just getting started. This hobby has a way of becoming
A permanent obsession.
I was only going to build one……….that was in 1972
Keep up the good work.
Mikeyfirelock
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This has been one heckuva journey and the end is around the corner. I am sure it will be a bittersweet experience as your ( current) project wraps up.
Question: is the thumb piece glued in place?
Thanks!
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“Dave and I then performed his ritual of spinning around three times reciting the Pledge of Allegiance backwards, whilst burning some sage and sniffing acetone so the stain would come out correctly.”
NOW WE KNOW! Thank you for sharing that. And really thank you and Dave for sharing all of this. It’s been fun to follow and to learn.
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This has been one heckuva journey and the end is around the corner. I am sure it will be a bittersweet experience as your ( current) project wraps up.
Question: is the thumb piece glued in place?
Thanks!
Yes Bob, the wrist escutcheon is glued in place.
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Very Cool!!!!! Great job!!!
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Saw it this weekend. Feels like a magic wand.
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So tell us Maria; what was (is) your most favorite aspect of crafting your superb fowler?
Hank
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So tell us Maria; what was (is) your most favorite aspect of crafting your superb fowler?
Hank
Good question, Hank.
I have really enjoyed following your building of this Fowler, Maria. You have done very well.
Thanks to you and Dave for posting.
Joe Stein
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Outstanding job in every respect!
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Hi,
Thank you all for supporting Maria and our work! Ken, your note will bring a huge smile to Maria's face. She will never forget her time at the workshop and wants to come back. You added greatly to her skills and experience and I thank you sincerely for that. I don't know everything and every way to do things, and she needed exposure to master builders like you and Ian. She talks about you guys all the time.
Well today, we got a lot done. The weather is perfect for drying finish so the first task was to get more finish on the fowler. I sanded off the crust of filler yesterday and put on more finish because we had to take advantage of the weather and time. The fowler has to be completed within 2 weeks to meet her school obligations, so we have to move. Maria will do a separate post on the stock finish. I am going to cover other tasks such as engraving and barrel finishing. Maria began this project last November. In a little over 6 months working no more than 2 days a week she has gone from never having touched a stock blank to what you see right now. It is a remarkable result, however, I cannot expect her to master engraving at the same time so I am doing most of that detail work. Nonetheless, as you will see, she is beginning her training in engraving. Although most of us make what we want regardless of historical detail, the objective of this gun was an historically correct fowler of good but not exceptional quality that might be imported to colonial America. To that end, the engraving and decoration has to suit. I think we accomplished that goal. Here is the butt plate with engraving copied almost exactly from one of my original fowlers. It is perfect for this gun.
(https://i.ibb.co/c1wFrnD/butt-plate-engraving-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZVS8MDW)
Next, we want some decoration on the breech of the barrel. We decided on a simple fluted band with borders. To cut those borders I had Maria cut several guide lines with the AirGraver, then do the same with a hammer and chisel. We were going to widen and deepen the borders with a triangular file anyway so the cuts with gravers was good practice that could be repaired if needed. Maria did very well with the gravers.
(https://i.ibb.co/s1hrb28/barrel-finishing-3.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/LS2FkTb/barrel-finishing-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8MSCKyT)
The we moved to the metal working bench and she filed the borders deeper with a triangular file and the fluting with a round file.
(https://i.ibb.co/D8LhMsr/barrel-finishing-5.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/HgC72xj/barrel-finishing-7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pXQ2PRS)
(https://i.ibb.co/qn53Nkr/barrel-finishing-8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/X48r7SC)
In the process she wanted to stop and make a demo photo for her future career as a hand model. I Photoshop brushed out the black dirt, bloody cuts, and greasy film on her hands so she can submit the photo in her resume.
(https://i.ibb.co/9y544qx/barrel-finishing-6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZcDgghQ)
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Top notch student and top notch teaching! It is coming along amazingly well - Congrats to both of you! And triple kudos for the hand-modeling humor. 8)
Curtis
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Hi,
We were not able to post for a while because of the ALR server problems. Anyway, Maria promised to post photos of the staining process. I am going to update things with the latest work. We started making the ramrod. It has a bison horn tip so we had to turn that. I cut off a horn tip, drilled it for about a 9/32" hole, and mounted it on a piece of dowel. The end of the dowel is slotted for a wedge that holds the tip tightly on the dowel. I trimmed off most of the asymmetric mass of the tip and then let Maria have at it. She never turned anything before.
(https://i.ibb.co/98cq2wX/making-ramrod-1.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/KwL1SVn/making-ramrod-2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Dp8qTwd)
Next she hit it with sand paper, broke off the excess wedge and turned the end a little concave.
(https://i.ibb.co/DGdqStj/making-ramrod-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Q8051fx)
The ash ramrod has to be tapered a lot so we began that process. My method is a little wonky but it works efficiently. The arbor of my wood lathe is hollow so the long rod can stick through it. On the end to be turned, we drill a shallow centered hole to fit the point of a live center. Then we mount the rod in the lathe exposing only short sections for turning. The rest of the long rod sticks through the headstock but it has to be controlled or it will wobble and break. So the left hand controls the wobble and the right holds down the turning tool. It works well but requires a bit of right hand strength.
(https://i.ibb.co/TLTxzk2/making-ramrod-4.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
After turning 4-5 inches, we move more of the rod out. We did not finish this task or making the tip because we need the stock to fit the rod. The stock is still being finished. When done, we will complete the rod. Here is the mostly finished stock. It needs more finish and some blackened areas rubbed out a little more.
(https://i.ibb.co/mbqkxNR/Maria-stock-finisher-29.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Ntj54TF)
(https://i.ibb.co/7jNf34c/Maria-stock-finisher-30.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YPTC5Z9)
(https://i.ibb.co/0BcLWVM/Maria-stock-finisher-31.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bHPVyRB)
(https://i.ibb.co/8zHvjFq/Maria-stock-finisher-32.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7gqMG7P)
dave
Maria barrel racing:
(https://i.ibb.co/c16VQYH/received-796908458454838.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rmxNHdS)
(https://i.ibb.co/p0pqyTP/received-1205976590066353.jpg) (https://ibb.co/r7J9sht)
(https://i.ibb.co/34h1Xm6/received-6535098843207582.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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Its nice to see a multi talented individual involved in more than one interest especially when they include one of our own pastimes. :)
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Maria is definitely not the average teenager or young adult!!! Kudos to her!!!
Curtis
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Great job all around. Cant wait to see it finished and some targets shown.
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more great stuff.. please keep it coming. thank you both.
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Amazingly talented young lady. She had to have had an excellent teacher as well. It takes a special talent to be a good teacher. The
results are very telling and rewarding. ;D
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So tell us Maria; what was (is) your most favorite aspect of crafting your superb fowler?
Hank
Jeez Hank,
This is not an easy question... I honestly have loved it all, even the not so enjoyable tasks. It has been such an incredible journey and learning experience. I can tell you my least favorite parts quite easily though. Filing and polishing cast steel parts have got to be the worst things to do. I definitely did not enjoy the nerve-wracking experience of drilling the blind hole for the ramrod either. I'll leave that task to others in the future when possible (AKA Dave).
This summer I'll be building two Short Land Pattern Brown Besses, one Long Land Pattern Brown Bess, and one Eliot Carbine with the guidance of Dave. The goal is by the end of the summer to be able to build a musket by myself without any guidance. I will of course be following in Dave's footsteps and posting updates on those builds throughout the summer provided I can find the time in between my time spent at the shop and my time spent at the barn young training horses.
Maria
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Hi,
Thank you all for supporting Maria. We are a hair's breath from being done. The stock is finished, everything to be engraved is engraved, the barrel is polished and tarnished, the lock is tuned and heat treated, and the ramrod is finished. This post shows a few final house keeping tasks that you may not see very often.
We fitted a brass front sight by mortising the barrel using gravers. We located the center of the barrel near the muzzle by laying the barrel upside down on a flat surface, used the top octagon flat to keep the barrel flat on the surface, then inserted a thin flat needle file under the barrel where the sight would go, and drew it out. That marked the exact center.
(https://i.ibb.co/L1C8xTk/barrel-finishing-9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9WqNbx8)
We just cut a flat bottomed mortise and then undercut the sides. The 4140 steel is very tough and it took some work to cut the mortise. Next we cut a brass sight from sheet and filed a fine dove tail all the way around the bottom. The idea is to insert the sight in the mortise and then peen the barrel into the dove tail, locking the sight in place. We did not know how well the 4140 steel would peen so I put flux in the mortise and then the sight, gave it a tap on top to make it stick, then sweated solder into the mortise. After cleaning up the exces solder, I peened the barrel around the sight with a punch. That seemed to work pretty well. I shaped the sight and left it a bit high.
(https://i.ibb.co/mFwk3Pg/barrel-finishing-10.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cXH0jsV)
(https://i.ibb.co/hmpG49R/barrel-finishing-11.jpg) (https://ibb.co/d5nNVM0)
We finished the ramrod. I had to make a ferrule for the thin end of the rod. I made one the traditional way, rolling thin sheet steel (0.032" thick) on a tapered form. I thinned the steel where the seam overlaps, fluxed the seam and soldered the edges together. It came out slightly cock-eyed but it will work fine. I then threaded the end for a cleaning jag (we will make another rod with a worm). I fitted and glued it to the rod and then pinned it.
(https://i.ibb.co/nwmfH4y/making-ramrod-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Fh3JSc1)
We then installed the horn tip. We used glue but also a wedge like an axe handle.
(https://i.ibb.co/D9my85b/making-ramrod-6.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/0mSfPMH/making-ramrod-7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/pb83CzY)
(https://i.ibb.co/Tc5d9TD/making-ramrod-8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/K6HSTGc)
After the glue dried, we cleaned up the end, then sanded, stained, and finished the rod.
Since November, 2022, Maria has worked with me on her gun usually 2 days a week. We covered an incredible amount of ground and array of skills. She did phenomenally well and I expect she will grow into a remarkable gun maker if she chooses to continue. Of course life is what actually happens despite our plans and she has a lot of life to go and choices to make along the way. I hoped to get her engraving by this summer. She has practiced a bit with both hammer and chisel and Lindsay Airgraver.
(https://i.ibb.co/YPvQqrV/learning-to-engrave-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7j7C690)
However, no rational person could expect her to master engraving with all the other skills in the time frame we had. She has made some strides and will get there in time but I decided to do the engraving on her fowler. We wanted a gun representative of actual English work at the time and we copied engraving from several original guns in my possession. It came out well and you will see it when we post the final photos, probably this weekend. The fowler had to be finished this week so she could have it for her final presentation to the school June 9.
dave
PS I am not supposed to reveal this to Ken Gahagan and Ian Pratt but Maria engraved a smiley face on the inside of the butt plate Ian forged. ;)
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Maria, congratulations on a great build. You have done well with the help of a great teacher and I think he has had a good student who probably had great teachers before starting this project so my congratulations go out to them too. We look forward to any and all upcoming projects.
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Maria is well above "AVERAGE".The definition of that word is The best of the worst or the worst of the best and this does not fit her at all.
How many of US at 18 even with a fine instructor could turn out a job like this one? She is a joy and delight like my young friend and history teacher Amanda Kizziah.These girls needed help and I have been fortunate indeed as Smart Dog has,The fact that both girls are good looking is frosting on the cake.
Bob Roller
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Hello All,
Well here's what everyone has been waiting for... The final pictures.
(https://i.ibb.co/16h1P7p/finished-gun-20.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WtqZMGd)
(https://i.ibb.co/1fKw3nT/finished-gun-21.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4ZM5cfp)
(https://i.ibb.co/mzYHpLB/finished-gun-3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KyQ9nMG)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZSsntYb/finished-gun-5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LrwLbJs)
(https://i.ibb.co/PtSwf09/finished-gun-1.jpg) (https://ibb.co/b7fz8D2)
(https://i.ibb.co/hY3nt3n/finished-gun-4.jpg) (https://ibb.co/41hD5hD)
(https://i.ibb.co/n0g6QV9/finished-gun-6.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0XDmYWT)
(https://i.ibb.co/kHWtQw7/finished-gun-7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/tmW98vG)
(https://i.ibb.co/Tq0vjvM/finished-gun-8.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wrQ0G0h)
(https://i.ibb.co/HzrPRZ5/finished-gun-9.jpg) (https://ibb.co/NjLNfRc)
(https://i.ibb.co/946BYqx/finished-gun-10.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/kQ9m2Mj/finished-gun-11.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WgPVvsZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/mC5nMg8/finished-gun-15.jpg) (https://ibb.co/N620HbS)
(https://i.ibb.co/Z1zQBN2/finished-gun-13.jpg) (https://ibb.co/G3QZWFH)
(https://i.ibb.co/fXmHHT1/finished-gun-16.jpg) (https://ibb.co/cyzQQsg)
(https://i.ibb.co/9vkDJ5K/finished-gun-12.jpg) (https://ibb.co/j5PNdX0)
(https://i.ibb.co/c61p28T/finished-gun-14.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
(https://i.ibb.co/kKSs9BS/finished-gun-17.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LSZXJRZ)
(https://i.ibb.co/P6tffsp/finished-gun-18.jpg) (https://ibb.co/71b66xc)
(https://i.ibb.co/GkDwR3q/finished-gun-19.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jGYKDZS)
(https://i.ibb.co/GvcDM6d/finished-gun-22.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ynWCk9N)
(https://i.ibb.co/L0y0hwh/finished-gun-23.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Man has it been a journey. Sometimes I have to pinch myself and ask if this is real. The best part? It is! There are a few little things I'd fix and change or wish I had done differently, but overall I'm definitely proud of myself. I couldn't of done this without having such an incredible teacher and mentor in Dave.
All the engraving is done by him, as that was a skill I did not have time to master with the deadline I had to work with.
I'm definitely NOT going to stop building although college will shorten the amount of time I have free. Already there are four orders in for this summer I will be building for folks (two Short Land Pattern Brown Besses, one Long Land, and one Eliot Carbine). The goal by the end of the summer is to be able to build a historically correct musket by myself without any guidance. I will be following in Dave's footsteps and posting updates throughout the summer on those builds so everyone who has followed this project has something to look forward to.
I would also like to say a huge thank you to everyone who has followed and supported this project. Your endless support and encouragement has never failed to bring a smile to my face. Thank you all for following along.
-Maria
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Maria, What a fine piece you put together. I enjoyed following this thread. You couldn't have asked for a better teacher than Dave, but obviously you took the ball and ran with it, especially that Dave has you doing some "next level" tasks. Great job both of you! Looking forward to your future builds and posts. TommyG
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OUTSTANDING!
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looks like the work of a 'master builder'. i would be happy if my 10th gun looked like that, no less my first.
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Beautifully done gun. A little hint….you will never be completely satisfied with any gun you build. That’s because you will always be striving to do better!
Bob
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Congratulations Maria on a job Well done. My hat is off to you Dave, a teacher measures their teaching ability, skill and knowledge of the subject by how well their students perform and retain the tasks taught. You and Maria are a perfect example of how it should be done.
Tim C.
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A beautiful job there young lady. Keep up the great work. It's always so nice to see young folks involved in building.
Bob
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Maria, it has been a pleasure to follow your work and am looking forward to seeing more of it in the future. Thank you!
Cheers Richard
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Incredible finished product Maria! You did an amazing job on the fowler. Congratulations to both you and Dave!!!
Curtis
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Indeed ,a very nice finished gun by this young girl.
Very talented .I would say.
Thanks for sharing Hawkeye
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Wow! Maria, you are blessed with the skill. One either has it or doesn't have it. You have it! Hope you realize that after creating a magnificent work such as this you have ownership of bragging rights. Not the gross "better than you" kind of bragging rather the type that comes with pride of workmanship. You earned those rights. Looking forward to seeing more, much more of your work. Kudos to you!
Hank
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Hi,
Thanks everyone for your support and encouragement for Maria and me. She did an outstanding job and will be hard at it this summer making muskets. I must admit, the fowler looks better in the hand than in photos. Somehow the pictures don't capture the elegance and craftsmanship that well. We shot the gun yesterday for the first time. It functions very well and it may already be close to zeroed in at 30-40 yards. Soon, we will bench it at 50 yards and see how it goes. Maria's objective was to build a plausible mid-18th century English fowler of good quality that might have been exported to the American colonies. Despite the extra costs of shipping, these guns were very affordable despite the quality because of the extreme division of labor in the English gun trade. Therein lies a big challenge for any modern maker of these guns. The level of workmanship must be high and there is little room for error in getting the architecture right. These are not good gun first guns to build. However, that did not intimidate Maria, and she even went further down the rabbit hole of difficulty by selecting steel and iron furniture. Brass is so much easier to work, shape, and polish. It also was a challenge to keep the proper architecture but still fit Maria who needed considerable drop at heel but a relatively high comb. Added to that are the limitations imposed because few commercially made locks and parts fit the need very closely. With careful instruction, she managed to pull it off with aplomb. It also helped to have original guns on hand to examine while working at the bench. There is probably no better example of the value, importance, and advantage of examining original guns than this project.
dave
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Dave will you have the gun (and Maria) at Kempton this year?
Kevin
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Maria, what a beautiful gun. You've learned a lot from Dave who is obviously a master builder as well as a great mentor/teacher. Good luck at Siena College. My granddaughter graduated from Siena a couple of years ago and loved that college. :)
Dave
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Beautiful job, Maria and Dave!
It looks so Right!
My hat is off to both teacher and student!!!
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Dave will you have the gun (and Maria) at Kempton this year?
Kevin
Dave will have the gun at Kempton's. I am very sadly unable to make it.
-Maria
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My compliments Maria.
First rate job all around.
You’re quite lucky to have such fine mentoring for your first effort. Hope you are able to finish many more.
Jeff
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Dave will you have the gun (and Maria) at Kempton this year?
Kevin
Dave will have the gun at Kempton's. I am very sadly unable to make it.
-Maria
That is too bad my compliments will have to be digital.
Outstanding build, can't wait to see it in person!
Kevin
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Maria,
Would have loved to have met you at Kempton and congratulated you in person. So I must add my digital praise to Kevin's.
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Great job Maria and Dave !
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The best thing that you can do with your talent is to give it to someone else. That is exactly what you have done and it is a great thing. I hope that you can do the same soon with someone else. I would love to do a project like this sometime.
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Congratulations! That turned out nice. I really like the view from the top of the wrist / lock panels. The architecture in this area is just beautiful.
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Simply remarkable!! You've created an heirloom piece that would stand up to any judge. "Best of Show" material here. Kudos to you and Dave. And thank you for the expose, eh.
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Exceptional! Very believable piece.
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With this being a senior project and "granted", what was the result and opinion of the grantor?
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Hi,
Thank you all. Angus, we don't know. Maria makes her school presentation this Friday night (6/9) so we should know then.
dave
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Hi,
Maria gave her presentation at her high school last Friday night. Staff from the school, parents and friends were in attendance. She did really well discussing some British gun making history and then the making of her fowler. She gave a Powerpoint presentation that was also videoed and broadcast virtually to folks who could not directly attend the talk. Afterwards, we went outside and shot off a few blanks demonstrating how reliable and fast her gun was. The school principal and those involved with funding and administering her project were very, very pleased. Currently, Maria is working over a Miroku Charleville musket that needs extensive work and then she is on to building two British pattern 1769 short land muskets. The work will be done in my shop under my supervision. I have other guns to do build at the same time so the shop will be humming along all summer.
dave
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Thanks for the update on the presentation Dave I have been wondering how it went. I am glad to hear it was well accepted. Looking forward to seeing more. Kudos all around.
Tim
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Great job to the two of you! I hope I can inspire my grandkids along the same lines, at least in some area of craftsmanship. You are a good example to us, Dave! And, I am quite surprised and pleased there still are schools in the country that would allow such a project. If I was a kid in Maria's class, I would be so interested in Maria's presentation, and trying to worm my way into Dave's shop and guidance also!
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This has been a spectacular thread. All the best to Maria and many thanks to
You for the education. Good on you both.
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I've just seen Maria's Fowler in real life, a very beautiful elegant Fowler, Great work Maria!!
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Outstanding! This is the hope of the future of blackpowder culture. Get young people involved and enthused. I know from experience that there are young people receptive to this hobby. We just need to cultivate it. Good on you Dave!
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She is how old,18? When I was 18 I could not even think of such a project.Go girl,you are off and running if you want to stay with this
line of avocational work.
Bob Roller