AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Black Powder Shooting => Topic started by: D. Taylor Sapergia on December 02, 2022, 03:14:04 AM
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Thanks for the compliments fellas...appreciate it.
December's match is going to be a do it yourself target. It's Christmas, so the targets will be Christmas Tree ornaments, those hand blown glass bulbs we knew when we were kids. The paper size I used is simple computer paper, 8 1/2" x 11" white. I drew five bulbs as follows: 3", 2 1/2", 2", 1 1/2", and 1". You can fill them in black as I did, or multi colour, or just an outline to suit your shooting style and artistic ability. They are worth as follows: 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 points each. So shoot one shot at each bulb offhand at 25 yards, unsupported. Use any muzzleloading rifle, smoothbore or pistol, any metallic sights. Scored by the half ball...half ball in goes to higher score. Your possible best score will be 15 points. Shoot and submit as many targets as you care to...best single target wins December's postal match.
I post a picture of the target I drew. You can scan this one and print it but be sure your bulbs are per the measurements provided. Hope to see a good turn out and good luck to all.
(https://i.ibb.co/3Y0xFQP/Screen-Shot-2022-12-01-at-3-54-12-PM.png) (https://imgbb.com/)
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Hey Pukka...Taylor took care of yah this month ...so you can shoot.
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Very nice of Taylor!
Fingers crossed!
Near minus 30C tonight.
One time I would have shot , but not no more unless being shot at!
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Should we be trying to keep the pattern close to yours in a 5 pattern from dice? Clustering them all together would of course make it easier to miss one and hit another. What is the rough distance between them?
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Seth - I would assume clustered globes would raise the possibility to put 2 shots on one bulb. I suggest that would eliminate both (2) shots, leaving only 3 possible to score on that target.
It would be perhaps, not a good idea to "cluster" targets.
I also suspect Taylor means to have a maximum of 5 shots on each target?
It's only -20 here this morning, but still too cold to shoot.
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You can see from my example that the bulbs are at least ~2" away from each other. I wanted them to be spaced out well on the page, not clustered around the middle. There's no Lexis for first prize here, only honour and glory, so use your good judgement.
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I have no desire to try to game the system by perhaps getting lucking and missing one target and hitting another, so don't take my comment that way! ;D Much the opposite. The hitting two shots in one eliminating both would definitely dispel any advantage of trying to cluster things. I'll probably spread mine out as much as possible so that I don't gravitate towards aiming at the larger one. I've found on multi-target targets or odder shaped targets in the past I have a tendency to err towards the center of the overall paper.
This should be good practice. I'm glad its something different. I haven't been able to get out and shoot since late October, so I'm going to try and get out and shoot this one if I can get some time with daylight and reasonably favorable wind conditions.
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Made up some targets this morning. Some completely filled in as Taylor's. Others only with about a 1" black circle in the middle.
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I've made 3 different PDF versions:
1 with outlines
1 black
1 black outlines with red fill
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pdX_XCimNksPc3eW3Vs-tVS13XZqZtRr/view?usp=share_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iUDs6VFgZdPpqTVddr96glu0pHJ5M44M/view?usp=share_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/12WuX66331nqbtyCldUjBmxEzd1R_7Lh4/view?usp=share_link
This should be a fun target, but unfortunately I managed to shear off my cleaning jag with a thick cleaning patch at the bottom of my barrel. Being a Lymans, the breech plug is not budging. However, one of the engineers(AME) at work suggested we should try and blow it out with the air compressor and will try that next week. I still have the option of trying to glue it back on with epoxy, but it'll near impossible to avoid getting epoxy on the bore. (Which I could potentially burn out afterwards, but more work, etc).
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I've made 3 different PDF versions:
1 with outlines
1 black
1 black outlines with red fill
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pdX_XCimNksPc3eW3Vs-tVS13XZqZtRr/view?usp=share_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iUDs6VFgZdPpqTVddr96glu0pHJ5M44M/view?usp=share_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/12WuX66331nqbtyCldUjBmxEzd1R_7Lh4/view?usp=share_link
This should be a fun target, but unfortunately I managed to shear off my cleaning jag with a thick cleaning patch at the bottom of my barrel. Being a Lymans, the breech plug is not budging. However, one of the engineers(AME) at work suggested we should try and blow it out with the air compressor and will try that next week. I still have the option of trying to glue it back on with epoxy, but it'll near impossible to avoid getting epoxy on the bore. (Which I could potentially burn out afterwards, but more work, etc).
If it's a cap gun..remove the nipple and drizzle some 4f powder in there. Put the nipple back on ..and shoot it out. For a flintah...drizzle 4f in the touch hole..shoot it out
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Exactly - unless it's really wet down there and in that case, get it blown out right now.
Jacob - was the jag one of the one piece with brass threads?
If so, you'll need a new one, and in that case, I drill out the back end and put in a steel 8x32 or 10x32 piece of bolt or machine screw. That, I CA onto the thread.
No more broken off jags.
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Thank you, Jakob. Just printed out three of the ones in black.
Wasn't able to compete on last month's match. I was too busy hunting and when I wasn't the weather got in the way.
Back home now. I will be hunting here also but have two weeks before that happens and need to play with the rifle I will be using.
this will be a good warm up target.
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If it's a cap gun..remove the nipple and drizzle some 4f powder in there. Put the nipple back on ..and shoot it out. For a flintah...drizzle 4f in the touch hole..shoot it out
I used a thicker cleaning patch than usual (wanted to scrub it good) and it's very stuck, so I'm a little reluctant to go that route..but I guess it'll take more than a little 4F to blow up the barrel?
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Yup...don't be afraid..put the 4f to it...and pop it out ..I've done it more than once...with 100% success rate
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I used a thicker cleaning patch than usual (wanted to scrub it good) and it's very stuck, so I'm a little reluctant to go that route..but I guess it'll take more than a little 4F to blow up the barrel?
You will not be able to get enough 4F or 3F into the breech, to cause ANY damage. Just make sure, after you put the powder in, to push the jag and patch down to the breech. If it is not
pushed down, it may not come out. There also is the possibility of ringing the barrel just below the obstruction (if it isn't down on the "powder").
Most people who have done something similar, have "popped" the ball or jag out with this method.
It is simple and it works. Same deal if loading without powder - normally called "dry balled". So- pull the 'obstruction', or shoot it out - in a safe direction.
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Co2 Discharger, easy peasy.
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I'm guessing 1 point for larger target and 5 points for smaller..... Is this correct?
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" I drew five bulbs as follows: 3", 2 1/2", 2", 1 1/2", and 1". You can fill them in black as I did, or multi colour, or just an outline to suit your shooting style and artistic ability. They are worth as follows: 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 points each. "
Score in order of presentation is how I read it.
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Great idea Taylor.
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Gotta wait for a warmer day, but looking forward to shooting this one, with my match rifle, of course. ;D
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Gotta wait for a warmer day, but looking forward to shooting this one, with my match rifle, of course. ;D
Still windy here. But I can shoot to 25 with a rest without much issue due to a berm at the range. If the range road is not drifted shut. Has been a nighmare for first responders since Tuesday on I-90. Even closed a 60+ mile stretch for a time. Sheriffs dept wanted it closed last night but state level never did this. Deputy described it in a radio call last night as “life threatening”. But either the decision maker could not be contacted or would not…
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Jakob, thanks for making the printable versions. I have Monday off, so I'm hoping to get out and shoot a bit then if the weather cooperates.
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Warmed up to almost the freezing mark, but windy and Taylor's out of town for a few days.
Today's his 74th birthday, btw.
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Happy Birthday Taylor and thanks for all your help and encouragement, you as well Daryl, only I don't know when your birthday is. ::)
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Happy Birthday Taylor. It is always good when you wake up for another one.
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Yep, the older a fella gets the older he wants to get. ;)
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Happy Birthday Taylor and thanks for all your help and encouragement, you as well Daryl, only I don't know when your birthday is. ::)
I used to particularly like the time between 8th Dec. and May 22, as Taylor is 2 years older than I am during that period. After May 22, he's only 1 year older.
That 'spread' is becoming less important nowadays. ;D
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Thanks for the BD Wishes guys. I got a card that says that at this age, every birthday is a win...that makes me a winner!! We're at -18 this morning...just came home from a birthday holiday in Victoria BC where it is currently +7 C...very pleasant.
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Got out today and shot my first target. 25 yards, off hand, 10 bore Chambers N.E. Fowling gun.[ smoothbore 46 in barrel ...no rear sight ] .715 ball, 100 gr FFg , paper cartridge
nicked the 2 1/2 in , but not a half ball, missed the 1 1/2 altogether
I score a 9
Next time I want to try my .54 rifle
(https://i.ibb.co/X4ycq4L/P1010009.jpg) (https://ibb.co/thZV9hK)
upload (https://imgbb.com/)
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Nice shooting Bob...very sporty of you.
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Got the jag popped out today. Totally uneventful. Filled in 4F under the nipple and it was just a gentle *Pop* and the jag came out a about 4 feet.
Barrel is soaking in ballistol right now and will shortly get a full scrub and I should be back at the range tomorrow.
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Nice shooting Bob...very sporty of you.
Black powder deer season just ended here, so I needed to unload my gun. Rather than pull the charge, I figured I'd just fire it, along with 4 additional shots :)
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Got the jag popped out today. Totally uneventful. Filled in 4F under the nipple and it was just a gentle *Pop* and the jag came out a about 4 feet.
Barrel is soaking in ballistol right now and will shortly get a full scrub and I should be back at the range tomorrow.
Soaking the fouling with a petroleum will just make it water resistant and harder to remove completely. If petroleum soaked powder fouling is allowed to buildup in the breech through repeated firings and cleanings it can make a material much like asphaltic concrete. Which is then very difficult to remove. This can and will completely plug breeches. This is a picture of a fouling trap breeched barrel that came in to be “fixed”. The rifle was not used much and was apparently well oiled since it did not rust nor did the fouling get hard.. But improper cleaning had finally completely plugged to vent.
While the fouling trap would have kept fouling at least a good iniitial water flush would have kept the vent clear. I use a light petroleum to remove any possible remaining water but I don’t do any initial cleaning with petroleum.
(https://i.ibb.co/sq615t8/3-A6-FE80-C-B267-4969-A7-ED-C879-B90-CCAB0.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rHcpbvD)
(https://i.ibb.co/HtyVs8s/DE4-C507-F-265-B-4-FC0-A1-CF-FFE9874-D1-F55.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZBrVPDP)
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Not sure about what Ballistol is made of, but seems to me, it is water soluble.
I cannot see what good it will do, and that a proper cleaning with the barrel out of the stock is what I feel is needed, not soaking
in anything. Get it well cleaned as quickly as possible.
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I've found Ballistol very effective in loosening up *everything*. Regardless, barrel (removed from stock) got a thorough cleaning with hot soapy water, until patches came out *clean*.
Went to the range, -11C, but low winds. Warmed up, mounted the target and noticed that my patches were now frozen. Balls still went in smoothly, but loading the 2nd shot on the target, I guess it melted and then re-froze in barrel as it got stuck when I tried loading the ball...trying to use more force resulted in this
(https://i.imgur.com/zKHSH5v.jpg)
(Left the range rod at home, of course).
Got home, grabbed the range rod and it seated the ball with no effort.
Will need to find a better lube for freezing temps :D
Will try again on Friday. At worst, I'll keep the patches on my pocket.
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I hear that having windshield washer fluid in a wet lube mix is the ticket where it gets cold. Keeping patches with “freezable” lube warm won’t help if the barrel is mighty cold.
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That's unfortunate, Jacob. It's happened to many of us, either that or punching the ball through the frozen patch.
BlueThunder windshield washer antifreeze fluid + just a tich of Neetsfoot Oil is what a bunch of us up in PG use for lube in the winter time.
I put in about an ounce of oil for every 10 ounces of fluid. Mixing up a batch usually outlasts the winter, so for range shooting in the summer
time, the bit of oil slows the evaporation rate. I usually mix up a gallon at a time.
The mixture I noted above, is what we call WWWF+ a tich of oil.
That rod had VERY poor grain runnout.
A range rod made from a piece of drill rod, or air-craft stainless works well for range shooting as well as cleaning.
Actually all of this BUZZ, should be in a new thread, not on Taylor's Dec. Postal Match.
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I've found Ballistol very effective in loosening up *everything*. Regardless, barrel (removed from stock) got a thorough cleaning with hot soapy water, until patches came out *clean*.
Went to the range, -11C, but low winds. Warmed up, mounted the target and noticed that my patches were now frozen. Balls still went in smoothly, but loading the 2nd shot on the target, I guess it melted and then re-froze in barrel as it got stuck when I tried loading the ball...trying to use more force resulted in this
(https://i.imgur.com/zKHSH5v.jpg)
(Left the range rod at home, of course).
Got home, grabbed the range rod and it seated the ball with no effort.
Will need to find a better lube for freezing temps :D
Will try again on Friday. At worst, I'll keep the patches on my pocket.
EEK!
Rods that break like this are extremely dangerous and will slice through a hand like a knife. BTDT when I was a lot younger. I never buy rods though the mail. And really inspect the ones I do buy.
Another trick is to strike the rod a sharp rap on a hard object like a concrete floor. I also flex them to make sure the flex is uniformas the rod is rotated and flexed.
Ballistol has isobutyl alcohol. And this means it has a level of water as well I am sure. Since alcohols are known to absorb water from the air. Someone here with a chemical background could tell us maybe.
There is a horror story from long ago about such things, in this case Hoppes #9 and P-dex that appeared in “Rifle” magazine.
Ballistol MSDS
https://www.ballistol.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/MSDS_TECH_BIO.pdf
I don’t see anything especially magical and since they don’t give percentages etc its probably just alcohol and something akin to Kerosene. Its apparently not “hazardous” enough to be listed. Which tells me it may be mineral oil or some such. Did not read the entire MSDS. They seem to be getting more involved than they once were.
Hoppes is more complex, apparently, but it is a good lead remover for rifles shooting “naked” bullets.
Hoppes #9 MSDS
It has 2 alcohols it seems.
https://www.hoppes.com/on/demandware.static/-/Library-Sites-HuntShootAccessoriesSharedLibrary/default/dwbd6a431d/productPdfFiles/hoppesPdf/sds/1000-101_SDS_No_9%20-Bore_Cleaner_liquid-Revision_11_4517.pdf
I suspect that both these probably have enough water to do some good in removing BP fouling. I know (via Rifle Magazine) that PDex and Hoppes #9 left to soak overnight will kill a barrel due to the water present. I asked Bill Knight about the “Rifle” case and that was his opinion. Hodgdon replied to “Rifle’s” questions stating that if ANY liquid was put on P-dex fouling that it had to be completely cleaned immediately.
BP (real BP) fouling sucks up water like a sponge and the carbonates will liquify and wash away easily. Adding petroleum to the mix will not enhance this SFAIK though it might help remove any carbon present. I only use a little Dawn or Windex to cut any remamining patch lube that might be present. But I also rinse well to get all the soap out.
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I don't have any problems with folks discussing things like loading and cleaning on this thread. This thread's benefit should be an exchange and absorption of information where lessons can be learned by everyone willing to take advice. Hopefully, when information is freely given, especially from an experienced and successful shooter, those who have issues will glean valuable help in solving their own problems.
Jacob: use only water that is tepid, comfortable to the skin, not hot water, to clean your barrel and lock. Otherwise, flash rusting WILL form in your bore, and that is barrel cancer...you don't want that in your bore. Flannelette patches will dry your bore...you don't need the heat from the water to do that.
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(https://i.imgur.com/E1P0YBu.jpg)
It looked a lot nicer than it was! -12C, but 8kt wind and 80% humidity meant I barely lasted an hour.. We'll be hitting -29C next week, so this was my best chance to get out.
I really wanted some mink tallow but I wont get that for at least another week, so I pre-soaked and dried some patches in hope they would provide some lubrication...which they kinda didn't. However, I kept the lube in my pocket and with some quick work, I could wet a cleaning patch and wipe between each shot.
I only lasted a warm-up round (5 shots) and then one target before the cold got the better of me and I ran home.
(https://i.imgur.com/SRUnMqG.jpg)
Could be better, but given the conditions, I'll take it.
.54 cal percussion, 70gr 3F Schuetzen, .535 ball.
DIY caps are getting a little annoying. Keeping them in a tin means that the priming compound will shake loose over time and not being able to fit them in a capper, means taking the gloves off to fit them. I have, I think, found a more local source for caps, so hopefully that issue will soon be gone. (Meanwhile I am now making progress on my Jaeger, which will also eliminate that issue!)
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Jacob: I'm glad you got out to shoot the December PS. I hope you (and the rest of us) get another opportunity.
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I'm still hopeful ....maybe this afternoon :)
(https://i.ibb.co/V3DDLZf/P1010001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rvMMQSD)
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Bob, that second clump of trees looks to be about 25 yards. You could shoot off the porch! ;D
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last day of the “heritage” ML season (8 days) after the general. Critters still a little hyper. Of course bow hunters get a LOT more time before general season… But they are special and have fought a ML season hammer and tongs for years.
Will give it a try next week sometime if the wind abates peak on the weather station is 34 mph right now.
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Supposed to warm up here next week to close to 0, by next weekend(Christmas).
-24 or so right now. Too cold to shoot for this old fella.
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minus 30 C here Daryl. What's that, minus 24F?
Yep! My hands don't like cold any more!
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Good shooting gents!
My kids colored some of the bulbs for me to shoot. However, I wound up driving all day to pick up a new puppy from a rescue last Monday, so I didn't get out to shoot as planned. We have a snow storm coming in when I'm off later this week, but I might be able to get out after the storm and shoot. If not, I'll hopefully find a decent day right before New Years.
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I like the target.
The others used a lot of toner. I get them drawn out and have some little sticky dots to use for aiming. Wife found me a compass to draw them with. Now waiting for a little warmer weather.
Actually below zero f about daylight. Might make +10 by noon.
(https://i.ibb.co/2qpjth5/AE4788-D4-6-E61-4-F0-C-9-E39-934-D43-EA4948.jpg) (https://ibb.co/TcNH82r)
And yes, for you folks in the Great White North ;) I DO go out in the snow sometimes. This is about 1000 ft above the pickup. About 9AM yesterday, all I got was exercise.
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(https://i.ibb.co/G3SG1VP/DF27513-C-7-CCD-4395-BD6-B-918-E0-E6-DBCF0.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Tq3JnHh)
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Glad you can do that, Dan. It's beyond me now. I suppose Taylor could, but would not likely be hunting. We've done it, mind you, down to
-40F/C. That was brisk.
-32C (-25.6F) this morning at 10AM. That's also -10.56 Newton or 198 Delisle/241.15Kelvin. Those sound t0o hot for winter.
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I suspect it was something around zero f when I shot the last shot. Was waiting in the pickup for the barrel to cool I shot the first two back to back after letting it get cold and then it needed to cool after each. 5 minutes was enough. Made them on a sheet of paper with a pencil compass then copied them on some heavier grey paper.
Was going to shoot a warm up target but it was too chilly.
(https://i.ibb.co/GxJ8Fxn/8-A99-CCC1-D461-4-D7-D-A694-D9-E7-BA0103-EC.jpg) (https://ibb.co/K0Gfm0b)
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Here it is afer I pulled the little sticker off #5
(https://i.ibb.co/71GbJYJ/F0-CB67-A6-70-B7-4-DAC-93-BE-CB070029-BF67.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wzKYN0N)
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I thought I had the target in the frame. This was the last shot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TlnjWvmjdg
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Nice shooting , Dan.
I'm hoping to try again tomorrow
(https://i.ibb.co/JvKt330/P1010002.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Yc3Q00Y)
(https://i.ibb.co/nrN5ZDC/P1010001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Q931z6d)
Looks like winter is showing it's face everywhere !
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-36 here right now, but come next weekend it's supposed to warm up some, Christmas Eve and Christmas Day, even boxing day.
Looks like an 11/15 to me, Dan. Missed the 4 score. Good target, the one to beat.
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-36 here right now, but come next weekend it's supposed to warm up some, Christmas Eve and Christmas Day, even boxing day.
Looks like an 11/15 to me, Dan. Missed the 4 score. Good target, the one to beat.
Its a fun target. Hats off the Taylor for the idea.
Looking at this I wonder how it is I miss any target on a our trail walk…. :)
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-40 this morning, -56F degrees of frost. Won't be shooting today.
I do have to fire up the diesel and do some Christmas shopping, though.
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Excellent shooting Dan! Kibler's guns are more than a pretty face, it seems.
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Paul, thanks for the nice note. I wish the same for you and your loved ones.
Sometimes, I'll go into my gun lock up, and take out a rifle or pistol, and just lay it over my lap while I'm watching a movie on Nexflix. I fully understand how life gets in the way of postal matches, so don't feel badly about it if you can't submit a target this month. Dan Phariss send in a nice one this morning, eh? It's -43 C here this morning which is about the same in Fahrenheit too. Much too cold to shoot, and not fair to the rifle either...mainsprings break at that cold. It's supposed to go up in temperature in a few days to around the freezing mark...I suspect Daryl and I will make an effort to get out. Thanks again for you kind thoughts.
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Taylor, :) :) :)
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-40 this morning, -56F degrees of frost. Won't be shooting today.
I do have to fire up the diesel and do some Christmas shopping, though.
LOL - The truck did not like it - at all.
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A bad day for spit patching. We’re headed for zero here in a few days.
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I should have my mink tallow before the weekend and the temps should increase to a more reasonable -12C (10F) and will get out again.
Really like this target.
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Good shooting Dan. Been busy chasing elk. Have targets printed though. Hopefully I can get shooting day in.
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Good shooting Dan. Been busy chasing elk. Have targets printed though. Hopefully I can get shooting day in.
Thanks.
I was out hunting and used the calm conditions to shoot out the load and 4 others on Taylors target. Was not very motivated this year. Still have “shoulder seasons” for elk if I get off my butt.
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I finally got out to shoot the target late in the day on the 29th. I waited out the really low temps we had hoping for a few warmer days at the end of the month.
Got busy and almost forgot to post.
T/C New Englander .50
55 Gr of 3F Schuetzen
.016” Pillow Tick patch
Olive/Castor oil lube
Hornady .490 Rounds
RWS caps
(https://i.ibb.co/Tbd4Mbd/2022-12-ALR-Target.jpg) (https://ibb.co/rcNx2cN)
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(https://i.ibb.co/yhnWy0y/2-E3-F0-C89-8816-402-A-864-D-4-F2-B4730-AE90.jpg) (https://ibb.co/q0MksBs)
Got out to the range today
62 cal Smoothy ...no rear sight ..offhand ...Flintah.
Was a balmy / high humidity ..55 degree day here in New Hampshire.
90 grains FF.... .595 ball .015 minute man canvas patching...mink lube
Started off on fire with 2 scoring hits...then a close one...then faded out...lol
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I got out too, but couldn't get into the black powder range - too much snow. -1 so not too bad on the fingers. Some large bore shooters showed up - too much noise for me so I shut it
down after 2 targets.
113gr. 2F Scheutzen .021" denim (10 ounce) LHV for lube.
As usual, no wiping.
I make it an 8/15.
(https://i.ibb.co/xJh5z97/December-Postal-Match.jpg) (https://ibb.co/kQKcqbS)
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A nice balmy -8.
New patches with mink oil. Works reasonably well, but have to wipe after 6-7 shots.
I had also recently bought a new .22 with open sights, for the express purpose of practicing (more effeciently) off-hand shooting and had one session last week (when it finally got above -20) and it already paid off during the warm-up session, shooting some very consistent groups.
Unfortunately, I could not translate that into a better result on the target, but I still had a very good session and learned a fair bit this month.
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That's great, Jakob. With a nicely smoothed crown, a thicker patch can be used and no wiping is necessary. If your shot patches are in decent shape with no holes or burning
perhaps your need to wipe is due to not enough lube?
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I actually forgot to mention that, that I did finally get around to smoothing the crown as you suggested in a PM a while back.
I'm not sure if I can fit a thicker patch. Maybe if I go down to a .530 rather than a .535 ball.
My patches are in good shape, though.
I'm still not consistent in my mount, though, so I think that's the next step. One thing is practicing at home, the other is at the range with bulky clothing.
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If the patches are holding up well, it is other aspects of shooting, yes, especially at such close range.
Keep up the work!!