AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Accoutrements => Topic started by: Kary on December 23, 2022, 03:59:56 AM
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I recently acquired a nice medium size powder horn made of wood. It has 3 copper bands and a copper pour spout. It appears to be old, but I don’t know. I’ve never seen one made of wood before.. can some one here school me on wooden powder horns?? I’ll try and post pictures, but for some reason my phone makes it difficult on this site.
(https://i.ibb.co/LJMqCWn/EBE13272-4860-4-CED-92-D2-64-CA964882-A5.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gPGXDpz)
(https://i.ibb.co/5LxdHJc/A5-C27-C97-8-EB5-45-CF-893-F-2-F93822-FE5-AB.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4pgcr0N)
(https://i.ibb.co/G91pMhy/C301-BF90-9-A18-4-C8-F-9-D8-C-4355-CF13-FF32.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YXKQdrm)
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As an old friend of mine would say, “Ain’t that a magnolia “!
Bob
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First wooden horn I have ever seen. Very interesting, love the copper bands.
Dennis
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Dennis, I havnt seen one either, I’ve don’t an internet search and turned up horns of Moroccan descent, but this one looks a lot different than those. I figured I’d ask here after turning up no other information. This horn could be a one off made by someone who had a lot of time on their hands. The curious thing is though, it’s very skillfully made, the base plug can be removed due to the rotten pins, there is evidence of wood shrinkage. I’m trying to decide wether to repair it and out it back into service, or leave it be and admire it? I messaged Tim Crosby, but havnt heard back from him yet.
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I have not received a msg from you.
Tim
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Oh, I’m sorry Tim, I thought I sent it last night. I must have mistyped. Anyhow what’s your thoughts on this horn? Any idea on a time period? Just looking for thoughts on it is all. Thanks
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One piece of solid wood or was it halved carved out and then the two sides reunited?
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Mike, it’s one solid piece, when I first got it I didn’t even think it was wood. Then I inspected it closer and sure enough it looks the world to me like black walnut. I’m trying to decide on wether to restore it, or leave it as is. I’ve never seen one like it, other than the Moroccan horns… which I don’t think this is.
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Only thing I have seen that is not even close are some NC horns with turned wood spouts. The Horner was a pretty artful individual to do this on a hard piece of walnut. Thank you for showing it here for us to admire and puzzle over at much the same time. Must have taken forever and six months to make this. Anyway, a nice, interesting horn.
Dick
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Yes, it’s somthing I would not have ever wanted to do.. but it does look nice hanging in my office. I think I’ll pin the base plug back in and seal it with bees wax, then I’ll make a pour spout plug and be done with it?
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The only thing that I have ever seen that might come close were hunting horns/blowing horns/fox hunting horns carved out of pine lighter knots. These were on a display in a tiny museum near Norris Dam (I think it was the WG Lenoir Museum, Norris, TN). BTW, a nice little museum if you happen to be in the area. As hard as those lighter knots are, it required a great deal of effort to hollow out the knot and them carve a mouth piece on the other end. I seem to recall that some of the horns were over a foot long!
J.B.
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I have to admit, I’m really puzzled by this. I can’t tell anything from the pictures. Walnut? Really? Why would anyone do that?
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The pour spout is larger than what I normally make my pour spout openings, when I first recieved this I had initially thought it was a blowing horn that someone turned into a powder horn…however, the base plug looks to be as old as the body of the horn. Although it looks like it’s never been attached properly. I’m with you guys and wonder why anyone would bother with all that work, when cow horn or bison horn should be available just about anywhere. I’m wondering if it wasn’t a shot flask of sorts? Or a powder flask for a fowling piece? Is there any tell-tale pictures I could take?
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If the butt cap is removable would it be possible to see the inside of the 'horn'? Being one piece, hollowing it out must have been done by someone with the patience of Job. Maybe some tool marks in there to help us along. It is a nice looking piece and if it is truly an old artifact, it would be a treasure.
Robby
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This Christmas Eve, having nothing to do because my Dad has a chest cold, my family has postponed our celebration until next weekend. That gives me some time to examine the horn a little closer, the base plug appears to have never been attached, no holes are present. The base plug looks to be hand carved, it fits tight to body of the horn.
(https://i.ibb.co/gT0Jv38/9-D9-B0-CAD-6-BBA-4390-AA38-EAB48929-E64-C.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6PKFvmS)
The base plug had a thong attached to it at one time…
(https://i.ibb.co/9cbVtrf/11-EAC2-FB-849-D-4125-BC91-FA79-ABDE48-E0.png) (https://ibb.co/gmSPVRX)
The pour spout has a hole drilled through the bottom lip, maybe for a thong for the plug?
The top ring and bottom ring are where the strap is attached..
(https://i.ibb.co/8jcPpjt/A116555-A-6262-4-B3-A-BA48-58-E1-B77-CBB0-F.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gDVtpDh)
The carry strap for the horn attaches on the top ring and bottom ring..
(https://i.ibb.co/D1wNqRS/C6-AE1450-2355-4-D87-AFD9-A64-EFDC076-ED.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GdCXh5b)
(https://i.ibb.co/pfxXQxb/6-CA731-BF-8882-4932-B8-F1-16-F088-A05-F0-B.jpg) (https://ibb.co/c61Tw1k)
The pour spout isn’t permanently attached and slides off… this piece still remains an enigma..
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This is the best I can do Robby, any suggestions on how better to photograph the inside would for sure be taken into consideration.. I’m not a great photographer..
(https://i.ibb.co/sW0J0NR/C77-A37-A5-82-EB-40-D7-A81-A-F8-F4-EAF8419-E.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7kwNwZC)
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Thank you Kary. Maybe holding a flashlight behind the camera will better illuminate tool marks. From what I think I see it looks like some chisel marks. Thanks again!!!
Robby
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That's certainly unique and the first one I've ever seen. I can't imagine the man hours required to build it. Just me, but I'd likely hang it up with a shoulder bag or two. It does look very old and I like such "wall-hangers". The closest I've come to a wooden horn is one I created from bamboo years ago.
(https://i.postimg.cc/yNJ3p67z/DSC00387.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yJHNkHJf)
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(https://i.ibb.co/TwTnfQq/9-A21-BFF0-47-B7-47-FA-9093-3-BB392976-E2-D.png) (https://ibb.co/BfP7phK)
Robby this is the best I can do, it doesn’t represent it well… but maybe it can show you want you want to see?
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Maybe a shot container holding large shot for waterfowling by a market hunter? The unsecured rear plug allowing fast refills? Certainly is unusual and interesting!
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I was hoping to see some evidence of a gouge type chisel work and maybe there are a couple striations , but hard to tell. The hole for the butt cap is to me prettifying impressive by itself, being a nice smooth circle. It certainly is a mystery to me. Thank you Kary.
Merry Christmas
Robby
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With a butt cap that is not secured I have my doubts that it was used as a powder horn. May have been tried but the cap would pop out easily especially once powder was put in a couple times. Think how a tight stopper slides in easier after powder has been poured in and out a couple times. Robby is right about the hole for the cap, I'll bet that was done with a large bit of some sort, like a compass bit used to cut holes. If you look closely at the one pick of the hole you can see what looks like a smooth stopping point with a lip from the bit. The inside looks like it was gouged out and then scrapped down, the spout hole looks to be overly large. The plug looks to be lathe turned to me. Is that a patch at the upper strap holder? Can you tell how the grain runs? Depending on how it does it would be a very fragile horn.
I'm thinking it may have started out as a presentation piece and somewhere in its life somebody may have tried to use it as a powder horn. I would not put pins in it but leave it like it is. I would like to see it in hand and if you would go along with that I will pay the shipping both ways. Really cool piece.
Tim
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Tim, send me your address and I’ll send it to you, looking forward to your observations. I’m curious enough that I’ll pay my own way.. 😏
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Tim, send me your address and I’ll send it to you, looking forward to your observations. I’m curious enough that I’ll pay my own way.. 😏
It's on the way. TC
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Looking forward to what Tim has to say on this horn.
Gonna try and make one Tim?
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Looks old as Moses. I’d leave it perfectly alone.
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I wonder if it was at one time a hunting horn. Very popular things down here in the mountains of North Carolina… used a lot for ‘coon hunting. This might explain why the bottom plug is not fixed, so if can keep junk out when being carried around.
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I have the horn in hand and have been looking it over with a large magnifier on and off for a couple days.. I see no evidence of it ever being used as a powder horn. I think just the fact that the base plug is not secured tells us that. Nor do I think it was used as a hunting horn either, the shape and size of the hole in the tip pretty well leaves that out. At first because of the nice shape I was sure it was a Cow horn just well patinaed but after a closer look and seeing the chip off the tip I scrapped that idea. The base band is one piece of Copper lapped over and riveted. I can see no lap joint on the other two bands so they were probably cut from one piece, a section of the center cut out, heated and worked on a mandrel to fit. They are held in place by Copper pins that have been peened over from the inside and out. The Copper tip has no seam either but has a decorative sawtooth design cut into the bottom. It is a press fit and I can see no evidence of it ever being pinned on. The lip has a small hole in it but I do not think that was used as a retainer for a plug because of its placement. I think a string of any kind would interfere with the plug fitting tightly. Rather I think there was a lid that swiveled over the opening. There may be something else missing from the tip too, other than a lid. As well made as the rest of it is I find it strange that the maker would leave the brim of the tip so rough. Although that may be from use but what was its use? One line of thinking is that it is" more likely decorative or ceremonial piece."
All-in-all whatever it was made for it is done very well and by someone with experience in a couple of different trades, if made by one craftsman.
Just my thoughts on a really unique piece.
Tim C.
PS: The suggestion was made to have the wood tested to see what it is and where it came from. I
have contacted these folks: http://wood-identification.com so there may be more to come. TC