AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: rich pierce on March 08, 2023, 11:57:17 PM
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I don’t have hard data but I think there are a lot of guns being built by members who are active here; maybe twice as many as get shared. Maybe even more builds get finished by our members and not shared.
If you’re comfortable posting your work here, and do, thank you on behalf of everyone.
If you’re building guns and not posting them here, we’d like to know why and encourage you to share your work. I have some ideas about barriers, but hope to hear from our members.
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Reluctant.
Reasons: I am a neophyte and slow.
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Rich a few months ago I posted a rifle to sell, you commented you would like to see more of my work. I struggle with typing and computers,I bet I'm not the only one. I built a rifle for my son that I will try to post pics sometime in the furture. Thank you for the good comments you gave me on the rifle I sold.
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Somewhat reluctant. I recently put a gun on here that got a sideways comment about being a “night time” gun or something like that. I took it as stupid and unnecessary. I’m not a timid guy but I can see guys being hesitant to post their work in fear of being ripped apart by the experts. Most of what I do is generic, basic, honest gun work and not terribly noteworthy so I don’t bother. I’m good with it and the future owner is happy with it too. I’m comfortable being a middle of the road gun maker and nothing beyond that. No need to invite criticism.
W
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Here ya go Rich. Iam not much of a photographer. Critics welcome. Tennessee style Harrison walnut. Wish I had more of it. ⁹
(https://i.ibb.co/1s6cGj4/20230308-134219.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4sdkR30)
(https://i.ibb.co/QFWj4Jh/20230308-134211.jpg) (https://ibb.co/zh3HzmC)
(https://i.ibb.co/NK65pZ2/20230308-134207-001.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KWjd7Fx)
(https://i.ibb.co/qYSj5t0/20230308-134159.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ZzjXmnH)
(https://i.ibb.co/jhJGWRH/20230308-134146.jpg) (https://ibb.co/2qZPsN5)
(https://i.ibb.co/hV3gsCD/20230308-134122.jpg) (https://ibb.co/SBF6NJR)
(https://i.ibb.co/JQKmvXM/20230308-134110.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PQNFcBf)
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Nice sleek lines, Paul. What parts did you make?
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I normally make the butt plate and trigger gaurd. But I've yet to get my forge set up. These are Ross Dillions. I made the rest except barrel, lock and triggers. Oh also screws and bolts.
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Rich,
We need to encourage people to post during the construction phase of their builds rather than their finished efforts. The first thing I look at on a gunstock is the lock molding. That molding tells a lot about a person's experience, but after the gun is stained and finished , there isn't a lot of advice you can give. We want to see you WORKING, not reflecting on the work that you did. C Wright
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Reluctant.
Reasons: I am a neophyte and slow.
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Ditto, I have posted a couple in progress and I’ll probably need guidance, hence the reason to post. When I finish I’ll for sure post completed pics for critique and I’m sure there will be plenty.
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I've done a few start to finish builds with documentation all along the way. I did it not as a tutorial but mostly for my entertainment and as a way for me to recall in later years how I did them. My kids also enjoy reading them.
I had one that got out of hand and I had to lock the topic and another that I deleted entirely. Most of the time people were supportive. So I'm not reluctant because I have some control as the original poster. I would like even more control and be able to delete unwanted comments.
What I will never do again is complain to the moderators. I felt bitch slapped every time. Fool me twice shame on me...
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No reluctance, but sometimes it's just too much hassle to get good pics, move them between phones, cameras and computers, etc. Or just don't think it's a project noteworthy enough to document. Of course last rifle I finished I posted but within a day, in what I thought was rather poor form, another maker hijacked the thread to try and sell one of his guns - was easier just to delete the whole post and move on.
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I posted all 5 of my builds, #1 only reluctantly to show all the rookie mistakes on it, the other builds were pretty good in comparison.
I didn't post a TC Renegade rebuild but I have posted the problems that I encountered with doing an L&R lock swap.
I didn't post a very old TC kit assembly that surprised me with how much gunsmith knowledge it took to get it together, the kit was pretty rough.
I didn't post a TC Hawken with a new GM barrel rebuild with a stock with a lot of internal flaws that I had to correct.
Stuff like this, doing away with the stripped tang wood screws and replacing them with real tang bolts threaded into brass bushings I installed in the trigger inlet. This was an old prewarning stock and hardware that couldn't have the tang bolt threaded into the trigger plate because the trigger plate was too short. And a lot more.
(https://i.ibb.co/LxFZKp7/bushings-complete.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8rC7k8Z)
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Rich,
We need to encourage people to post during the construction phase of their builds rather than their finished efforts. The first thing I look at on a gunstock is the lock molding. That molding tells a lot about a person's experience, but after the gun is stained and finished , there isn't a lot of advice you can give. We want to see you WORKING, not reflecting on the work that you did. C Wright
This. When I first started going to shows, folks were ripping me apart. And it hurt, but it was the only way to learn because I had not yet been able to get my hands on many antiques and photos in books do not give you everything you need. If you're doing something wrong, why wouldn't you want someone to tell you? I've been a participant on this site since the beginning and everyone here is a good guy even if someone chooses to call you a stooge now and then. I still love ya all even if I have to plan to go Monte Cristo on yo a ss at some point down the line! ;D ;D ;D
We're all grown adults I think; shouldn't be a need to tippy toe around.
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Rich,
We need to encourage people to post during the construction phase of their builds rather than their finished efforts. The first thing I look at on a gunstock is the lock molding. That molding tells a lot about a person's experience, but after the gun is stained and finished , there isn't a lot of advice you can give. We want to see you WORKING, not reflecting on the work that you did. C Wright
I can see this point of view. Beneath it is some premise, right? Is it that that the primary goal of sharing work in progress is to receive suggestions on how to improve the work?
If that’s it, what about when John Bivins posts? (I know he has passed, and no disrespect intended AT ALL).
I’m just asking these questions to get at “why do we post?” “Why do we not post?” “How do we want or intend to respond when people do post their work?” “Will our responses depend on who is posting?”
Sorry if I’m too touchy-feely here. The moderators want to encourage posting work, finished or in progress, by all our members, from first-timers to professionals.
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I like seeing all pictures in the works or finished. A poster can ask for critiques or post for work their proud of. This is a great site to learn or just share.
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I think that anyone who has the staying power to finish a rifle/gun/pistol and posts it here should be celebrated for their accomplishment. It is a big deal! I also agree with our late Don Getz who said that although congratulations are always in order, it does the builder no good if all he gets is "ataboys". Don was always quick to congratulate and held no punches when constructive criticism was in order. He was always able to accomplish that with grace and charm, if not sensitivity.
This is a good thread Rich...thanks for posting it.
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Comments like calling someone's work a poachers rifle that's only used at night so it wouldn't be seen isn't helpful or constructive criticism. Can't unring the bell after reading something like that.
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Comments like calling someone's work a poachers rifle that's only used at night so it wouldn't be seen isn't helpful or constructive criticism. Can't unring the bell after reading something like that.
I see that you noticed too. Thank you! I’m sure that whoever posted this probably tutored Bivins or House or Pippert or someone else of that level of skill.
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Hi,
I post my projects all the time, including how I make them. I am sure there are some who think I am grand standing and looking for the pat on the back. Far from it. I take the educational mission of this site and the "Muzzleloading Forum" seriously. I put my production right out in front of everyone, including my mistakes, problems and triumphs. I urge others to do the same but it is hard for many folks to reveal themselves like that, especially online. However, the real value of this site is just that. Sharing information, critiquing work, providing detailed information and teaching by example. But there is a down side. There are those who are annoyed that ALR members can learn things cheaply on the site that they had to discover by long hard work. They are doubly incensed when their hard won knowledge is ignored or challenged by newcomers. There are folks who struggle accepting advise and criticism and take umbrage. Posting work is a complex milieu of motives and personalities. I wish I could waive a wand and have all of us work for each other but that is not going to happen. I can only hope that the mission of this forum prioritizes its education objective and others recognize that is the real mission.
dave
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Great Post, Rich! I especially enjoy viewing everyone’s work in progress. I’ve been a member for many years, but only posted a finished rifle last month. So, reluctant, I guess - didn’t think they were worthy. I tend to work on 2 or 3 at a time and often switch projects when hitting a snag.
Here’s one languishing since 2010, but I’m working on 2 others for now.
(https://i.ibb.co/jJNNMwv/8-E0-EC570-E6-C1-4149-9-F97-DCB421-C831-B3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PDLLhWZ)
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I think I built my first rifle from a blank in 1970. I had no mentor and only a few pictures of longrifles from a magazine to go by. When I finished everyone in my small hamlet told me it looked fantastic but I knew that they had never seen one before so their praise was taken with a grain of salt. I learned a lot but even more when I went to my first shooting match and seen guns made by veteran makers. I sure wished this site would have been around back then. That being said it will help anyone building more to have help from a veteran while building than after the job is done. I would post more pics myself when I can get my camera and computer to cooperate with me.
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I’ve only done 2 from blanks, and (really) struggle with butt plates. So very reluctant. Haven’t done one if a few years but I have 2 ash blanks and the parts for the builds, just waiting for me to attack.
When I look at what the members here are producing, I sometimes think I should just paint popsicle sticks as a hobby.
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P.Bigham - nicely done. Great piece of walnut too. I like that rifle.
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Reluctant. There is a core group here that freely passes judgment on works by non-core members and that routinely gives a pass to those within their group and to certain builders who they’ve placed on pedestals. The biggest problem I see though is that it is very hard to accurately judge someone’s work by looking at a few two-dimensional pictures. Everyone says you have “study the originals” to learn how everything should look. Then they turn around and critique a persons work based on a half dozen pictures.
I’d rather work directly with builders that I admire and respect, those with attitudes geared towards mentoring and inspiring. I am fortunate to know and work with several of those. I know that they will tell me what I am doing wrong, what I could do better as well as tell me what I did well. Much of the critiquing I see on here is either tacit praise out of fear of staring a controversy or vitriol fueled by one’s own biases. Neither one is all that conducive to improvement.
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I've been reading this forum for some years now and have never posted any of my builds. I'm not bad at building and, even if I was, there are kind people here who would find something positive to say about a pipe chainsawed into a 2 by 6. I'd like to post one of my builds someday (but not today). The reason I would do so is not to fish for compliments. I know my guns are fairly good and, as has been said, once it's done it's too late to make suggestions. For once I'd like to show my guns to people who know what they are looking at (or what their supposed to be looking at) and what it takes to build something like that. Friends and
family are great but generally don't have a clue. They are polite and say "that's pretty" but wouldn't know the difference between an American longrifle and a Vulcan cannon. Kinda deflating after a few hundred hours of work. Most people have as much interest in a carved flint Jaeger rifle as I have in their $1000 coffee maker. No bitterness, just a calm statement of fact. So, you asked for feedback on why people post their builds. Here's my long winded two cents.
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I'm still fairly new to the forum and was mostly getting a feel for things. Here's two cap guns I made last summer and the current project.
(https://i.ibb.co/G2TfvjH/20230308-171948.jpg) (https://ibb.co/WytNW1V)
(https://i.ibb.co/5jQt8RK/20230308-171631.jpg) (https://ibb.co/8xyT57Y)
(https://i.ibb.co/MgDtgGX/IMG-20220704-134004032.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hgR4gZq)
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I don't know how many actual members are in this forum, but I can imagine a whole lot. (I think there is a member directory.) But you can always count on a select few who will, as Dave said, take an educational approach to things here and contribute mightily. This is why I sometimes submit photos of my work. Because I can anticipate constructive criticism by folks who have a real interest in giving good, grounded guidance.
There was a time when I was a baby member that I just wanted positive feedback and "Kudos" for my stuff, and felt somewhat an inadequate failure if I didn't get those strokes. But you live and learn and realize that there can always be improvements and other ways of doing things properly. ("Learning" I think it's called)
That's what I love about this forum. It's a place to share and learn and grow.
(For some, it's a chance to fling poo, but not so much here, thankfully).
I do sometimes wonder, when working on a project (gun or horn) what so-and-so might say about this, or what did so-and-so suggest for a future build?
One neat comment I received was with my showing a pic of a work in progress. I was told the lock panel was too big. I went back and continued working on the gun and also reworked the lock panel. Later, when I submitted an updated build pic, that person expressed surprise that I made the fix as suggested. I felt like a good student.
That's why I share pictures, partially by pride at what I can accomplish, and partially by seeing how I can do better on my next one.
You guys are a wonderful resource, and you have my sincere gratitude.
~Bob
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I stumbled upon this forum when I purchased a Kibler kit. With no experience I was expecting that I would need help and advice with the project. It turns out that the build was actually quite simple and the rifle turned out very nice. My experience on this forum has been fine. I posted and received positive comments.
I enjoy looking on here mostly to see the amazing carving that some guys are capable of. I am fascinated at the level of talent because it is so far beyond my wheelhouse.
I quickly discovered that there is a diverse mix on here. Some very talented true gun builders who can carve a hunk of wood into a stock and fabricate the components by hand and others like me who basically assemble a kit.
No matter the level of talent, we all share the same passion for these rifles. If members don't feel comfortable posting on this forum then it will cease to exist. It's that simple.
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I'm glad you have brought this up, Rich. Here's one man's perspective, for whatever it may be worth...
Years ago, when I built model airplanes, I was a member of an online forum not so different than this one (though the average maturity level was markedly lower...). The message board had specific sub-boards for sharing in-progress and finished models, each with specific intent and rules. If memory serves me right, they were as follows:
"In-Progress Pics" -- share your build as it progresses, ask for help/advice, weigh in with constructive criticism of others' builds, etc.
"Display Case" -- simply post your finished build and others are welcome to give attaboys and encouragement; a good place to celebrate the achievement, as Taylor said. Specific to building rifles, there can be a confidence deficit as a new guy when it comes to posting, and that confidence is built largely through positive feedback, at least initially. You could certainly PM a guy and ask him if you can share some thoughts, advice, etc, on his finished project; by virtue of going private, a newbie lacking confidence doesn't feel embarrassed when his mistakes are pointed out in front of others. Everyone responds differently. But, as Taylor also mentioned, one doesn't get better without honest, constructive feedback, hence...
"Critique Corner" -- similar to the "Display Case," but by posting your work there, you are okay with any/all constructive criticism/feedback in a public forum.
When I finished my most recent rifle, I wasn't really sure where to post it, in "Gun Building" or "Contemporary Longrifle Collecting." I wasn't really building the gun anymore, but as an amateur I sure as $#*! wasn't going to consider it a collectible, either! Maybe a dedicated sub-board or two would help?
There's a very human element to sharing your artistic pursuits and in a perfect world everyone would take and offer criticism well... but we all know the world isn't perfect. There's that quote about art not being the finished product but rather the feelings inspired by the journey... sometimes you just need to be able to share the feelings by posting your in-progress or finished project with other people who feel the same way.
Just food for thought!
- Tom
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I really like this one, scotti. To me (who knows very little about where guns came from) looks like an Ohio rifle.
I sure do like it's lines. That honey brown is a nice stock colour for it.
(https://i.ibb.co/xGf5dz7/Ohio-Rifle.jpg) (https://ibb.co/HYxg3GH)
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Thanks Daryl, I modeled that gun after a JS Pease rifle from St Louis that was pictured in Jim Gordon's Great Gunmakers for the Early West.
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So far I have posted over 150 hours of video building guns. I get a lot more questions than criticism. I do what I can to give encouragement and show that this stuff is not all that hard. Showing all the mistakes is probably the most important part. There are a lot of people that want to build, but don't know very much about the basics of working with tools. I might skip over some small thing in a video because I think it is not even worth mentioning. Then get a lot of questions because what seemed obvious to me is not so obvious to others. So I have to go into detail of all the little things. If I don't I will probably hear about it.
The biggest thing I notice is a huge amount of fear. I don't want to spend $1000 on parts and screw it up so I am just going to give up before I ever start. Great. Now failure is certain! If you want a gun, buy one. If you want to build a gun, then building the gun is the goal. If you get to enjoy hours in the workshop then you have been successful. I does not matter how the gun turns out. The money spent on gun parts and tools is part of the entertainment budget. Spend enough money to build several guns on a cruise. It lasts a week and you come home with a t-shirt and tell everyone how great it was. Building a gun is a lot cheaper, lasts longer, and you probably have something that will last for centuries when it is over. If the gun ends up looking awful, it does not matter because the goal was to enjoy 100 hours in the workshop. How much would 100 hours in the casino cost?
The first gun is not going to be a masterpiece. You will make mistakes. It don't matter. You will learn and the next one will be better.
Right here a lot of people say they don't want to post their builds because they are afraid of others will say. Why would you be afraid of that? Worst thing that can happen is someone you never met says something mean on a computer. You might also get some criticism that turns out to be very helpful. You are wrong if you think only the experienced guys have something to offer. There is one thing that the experienced guys will fail at with the new guys. It is impossible for them to show what it is like to build that first gun because they know what they are doing. They are not going to have the problems that a new guy will. Someone that has already build a dozen guns cannot show what it is like to build one for the first time. Posting all the details of your first build is of huge value to all of those that also want to try it for the first time. The value comes in showing others what they are likely to have trouble with and how to figure it out. If you show that you can work through all the problems that come with a first build it is going to show others that they likely will be able to get through it also.
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I have been here since the very beginning of this forum, learned a lot and enjoy it daily, visited a few other forums but dont bother with any but this one now, well besides Herchel Houses forum on the fake book thingy,
Lots of come and gone but really very few of the best builders rarely post their work,
This is the only exposure i can get to flintlocks because of the flintlock grave yard i live in
It is what it is but also is a good learning experience
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@Bill Raby, you really hit a great point there. When I tell people how long it takes me to build a gun where I fabricate many of the parts they are stunned and perplexed as to why I would do that, when my “hourly wage” if I sell the gun is paltry. I tell them I’ve known professional musicians who pick up their instruments every day and play for nothing at home because they love playing. Shop time is time well-spent. We are happier with some builds than others, but the making of something puts me in a special zone, a happy place.
To the thought that “my work isn’t good enough”
In any field of endeavor, one’s “ranking” depends on who you’re running with. For over 20 years I raced bicycles and organized and promoted races. Local and state heroes never made it to the pro ranks, save 2, but everyone who lined up at the start and gave it their best impressed me. I knew a lot of fast riders who could have been competitive in races, but it wasn’t their thing. Long ramble, but the owner and moderators here hope members can feel this is not a race where their placing gets recorded forever. Rather, feel they are part of a community of folks with the same passion, and feel at home. A lot depends on how folks respond to a build. If asked, one can offer critique in ways that help, rather than trip the builder up. It’s also easier to communicate face to face as EK mentioned he experienced early in his gun building experience.
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So far I have posted over 150 hours of video building guns. I get a lot more questions than criticism. I do what I can to give encouragement and show that this stuff is not all that hard. Showing all the mistakes is probably the most important part. There are a lot of people that want to build, but don't know very much about the basics of working with tools. I might skip over some small thing in a video because I think it is not even worth mentioning. Then get a lot of questions because what seemed obvious to me is not so obvious to others. So I have to go into detail of all the little things. If I don't I will probably hear about it.
The biggest thing I notice is a huge amount of fear. I don't want to spend $1000 on parts and screw it up so I am just going to give up before I ever start. Great. Now failure is certain! If you want a gun, buy one. If you want to build a gun, then building the gun is the goal. If you get to enjoy hours in the workshop then you have been successful. I does not matter how the gun turns out. The money spent on gun parts and tools is part of the entertainment budget. Spend enough money to build several guns on a cruise. It lasts a week and you come home with a t-shirt and tell everyone how great it was. Building a gun is a lot cheaper, lasts longer, and you probably have something that will last for centuries when it is over. If the gun ends up looking awful, it does not matter because the goal was to enjoy 100 hours in the workshop. How much would 100 hours in the casino cost?
The first gun is not going to be a masterpiece. You will make mistakes. It don't matter. You will learn and the next one will be better.
Right here a lot of people say they don't want to post their builds because they are afraid of others will say. Why would you be afraid of that? Worst thing that can happen is someone you never met says something mean on a computer. You might also get some criticism that turns out to be very helpful. You are wrong if you think only the experienced guys have something to offer. There is one thing that the experienced guys will fail at with the new guys. It is impossible for them to show what it is like to build that first gun because they know what they are doing. They are not going to have the problems that a new guy will. Someone that has already build a dozen guns cannot show what it is like to build one for the first time. Posting all the details of your first build is of huge value to all of those that also want to try it for the first time. The value comes in showing others what they are likely to have trouble with and how to figure it out. If you show that you can work through all the problems that come with a first build it is going to show others that they likely will be able to get through it also.
Mr Raby, Your videos have been most helpful to me and gave me the idea that I could build a muzzleloader. I am working my way to a full build, starting with a Petaconica stock with barrel channel routed and ramrod hole drilled. That got interrupted by a Kibler Woodsrunner kit. I am proceeding slowly in the Petaconica stock project, just having gotten the lock inletting very nearly done.
I am too new and unskilled to be able to offer insight on a build to anyone, save for showing errors! I have asked for advice and shared a completed project (Woodsrunner).
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I am in the reluctant camp . The reason being while I can can build a fully solid and fully functional rifle which I have learned these skills for many many many hours if reading posts and asking question here my skill level will never be as good as many on here due a hand dexterity fine inletting is my down fall. And Honestly it’s a just average gun . While I’m proud of it I don’t need to seek compliments or criticism I know what I can do and can’t no amount of hearing should have done this or that will cure my shortfalls .
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Never camp, some very talented builder love to rip apart less talented builder work. And if you stand up tp them the administrators threaten to block you
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When I got into muzzleloading in the 80s , there were "cliques" . Today we still have "cliques" in the sport as well as this site. It is part of life! I actually got involved in the sport for the same reason that I am in it today , I LOVE THESE OLD GUNS! I am not a "club" "clique" "self promoter" kind of guy. I have watched the "establishment" get behind one of the "rising stars" and push him to the "top" when other builders were doing better work but, they were not in the "clique". I have seen certain members on this site , get away with talking to people on here that, would get some of their teeth loosened in a gas station parking lot! but, because he is in the "clique" he gets a pass ! I get tired of seeing the hypocrites that post pages of $#@* , bashing anyone that dares to age a gun but, as soon as one of the "clique" posts an aged gun , they can`t wait to get in line to kiss the derriere of the poster on his aged gun! Basically I am not a "people person " and I understand that ! I am only here for the guns! I have presented my work to some of the most respected builders in the sport for many years and , I am glad to listen to their opinion! I try to do more lurking than posting. I have picked up some great tips , trick , and methods from the contributors here. Just here for the guns!
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I post some things if I think I accomplished a goal that I set out for myself. I am not worried about what criticism I may receive.
I really don't like to criticize any ones work on a particular thread. I believe the only time I criticized some ones work was on a PM.
There are a lot of folks here that truly have impressive talent. I am grateful to see their work.
I was thinking of maybe taking photos of my first build from a blank. I built it more than 20 years ago.
The criticism I received from our local ML Guru, was instructive and helped me improve my future builds.
Maybe show a recent build for comparison.
It will have to wait until I regain use of my left arm.
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Very interesting thread.
Let's all remember it's just an internet message board? A great source and place of socializing, but it's not the end all be all of life.
Just repeat: "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it people like me."
Or maybe they don't. I don't like Al Franken. But remember - it's just the internet.
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I post some things if I think I accomplished a goal that I set out for myself. I am not worried about what criticism I may receive.
I really don't like to criticize any ones work on a particular thread. I believe the only time I criticized some ones work was on a PM.
There are a lot of folks here that truly have impressive talent. I am grateful to see their work.
I was thinking of maybe taking photos of my first build from a blank. I built it more than 20 years ago.
The criticism I received from our local ML Guru, was instructive and helped me improve my future builds.
Maybe show a recent build for comparison.
It will have to wait until I regain use of my left arm.
Hoping that arm comes around. It would be fun to have a “first build from a blank” and see how things have changed since the 1970s. Nowadays I see some folks’ first build from a blank done recently and am blown away. The internet, more books, more gun making fairs, and so on have all made access to information much more accessible.
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Yep.
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Once my Clay Smith kit arrives in the next few days I will begin my 4th build. So I'm still very much a beginner. Doesn't bother me to post photos. I never claim to be an expert or to be totally HC, I do the best I can and continue to study proper techniques to improve my building skills. Now I certainly enjoy having folks compliment my work as we all do, but I won't loose much sleep over criticism. Ultimately, it's my money, my time, my taste, and my ability that determine the outcome. So I'm the only one I'm really trying to please.
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I remember posting the first pistol I made, it was a mish mash of parts and styles, not correct in any way. I was quite proud of it. It received a scathing review from one member and I was made aware of what a poor job I had done. Another member offered that I had done what I could and that an important first step had been taken, he encouraged me to continue and I did. As I get older and can no longer do the things I could at one time, I look at what I have accomplished and am pleased with my efforts. If not for that encouragement things could have gone differently. I tore that gun down last year and and built another with the parts, I had learned from it. Oft times folks don't engage because of insecurities, you don't have to blow smoke up their ass but you don't have to kick them either. Thanks to all the good guys who share and encourage, it makes a difference.
(https://i.ibb.co/WV77Tg3/20190126-130454.jpg) (https://ibb.co/KKBB1FG)
(https://i.ibb.co/fMbFpCK/DSCN2693.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PxRjh5b)
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Rich,
Great question that with some introspection I will try and answer.
I am reluctant to post my builds here but do post on other forums. I believe my reluctance is based on my personal critique of my work by comparison to the skills of the "masters" I follow here.
I have been building for decades and build an attractive functional gun but I lack quality carving and engraving skills. I have a well equipped (but messy) shop and have helped a number of people get started and will share my time with anyone wanting to work on or discuss this hobby/ addiction in person.
I am my harshest critic and a devoted student that bristles at misinformation or uninformed comments. Those comments are rare here which one of the reasons I am here every day, other forums can be filled with wrong and dangerous information.
So my rambling self examination says to me that my lack of posts is based on me being a student more than a teacher.
Kevin
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The top pic is my 1st Lancaster and the next 2 down are my last Lancaster.....25 yrs apart
(https://i.ibb.co/6ghrqYz/Rifle072004k.jpg) (https://ibb.co/RznYJ2f)
(https://i.ibb.co/6RJJ0k5/Lancaster-IH-011.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VWppYs8)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZMyR0H4/P1010027.jpg) (https://ibb.co/wzDZfJG)
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I don’t post very many of my builds mostly because I am a horrible photographer and most of the guns I build are quite plain so nothing special to look at. Of the ones I have posted I appreciated it when someone pointed out how to do better on certain aspects of the rifle build.
I’ll try to get a few decent photos of my latest, a plain flint Leman and post them soon.
Ted K
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Am I reluctant to post images of my builds? I certainly haven't posted any yet, so I assume the answer to that may be yes. The reason is I'm still plodding along with my first build, and it requires stepping back about 10-20 feet and perhaps dimming the lights before any admiring can begin. I've made more than a fair share of mistakes during this build, but each one has been a learning lesson in its own way. I expect I'll be more keen on sharing progress of my second build since I hope to avoid most of the rookie errors I've made along the way with this first one:
(https://i.ibb.co/DWfHMYs/0021.png) (https://ibb.co/r02Rp3T)
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I been here for a long long time. I’m guilty of posting few pictures. For many years it was my low technology skills. Now it’s usually gee I forgot to take pictures. Just recently I posted some pictures of some non PC horn work I did. I’m sure some of our highly skilled Horners cringed, and bravely resisted comment. My current slow rate of getting work done does not help. The current project is a Killdeer rifle for a fellow in Wisconsin. He wants a slightly customized copy of the movie gun. It will be restocked from a build that another “ builder” horribly botched. It will include details of the movie gun that would probably insite harsh comments and get the thread locked. Maybe that might be fun! 😜
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Well I've been on this site for a while. I don't show my stuff either. I did post one trade gun I finished on a different site. Got over 500 likes and comments. One thing I learned a lot of people need glasses..
But seriously I do have a real opinion of some of these so claimed experts bashing people who are trying to learn gun building or asking a question about something. Like the mustard or aging . I get why people don't want to show their stuff or ask any more.
When I first joined the ALR I asked a question about L-R locks. The reply was sell it their junk. I was making a scratch built gun at the time. Well for a piece of junk it has served me very well.
What I'm getting at is think before we reply. I'm as guilty as the next person. Your ego is not my problem.
I think we all forget that we all started out learning. Everyone makes mistakes even the pro's. I don't mind criticism if it's projected in a good way.
But we all got to think before we answer. We need to remember that there's more than one way to do something. I'll take most anyone's advice. If it works fine. If not that's fine too. Enough of my babbling.
Now I got to get back to making my canoe gun or blanket gun...or whatever it is..
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Bill Raby and his video series is THE spark that eventually led me to this forum and ultimately to diving in and starting the process. I can’t express how important his contribution (as well as many others I’ve discovered) is to sustainability of this hobby/pastime, whatever it is to you. I’m definitely a visual learner but books are important too and I believe that building a library of titles that suit your interests is as important as collecting good tools and the like. Yes, it’s an expensive endeavor but in todays world, what isn’t? I will say that the one thing that gave me the most anxiety in the early stages of my diving into building from a blank was the reoccurring mention of people discussing tools/jigs that they made. It wasn’t until I actually started the work that I started visualizing the how and why those topics were being discussed and a great deal of the satisfaction I’m taking away from this new passion of mine is successfully fashioning and using widgets that I either copied or thought up myself just based on the need to solve a problem. Gun building is my chicken soup for the soul! Lol.
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Hi Rich,
Thank you for the analogy about "hourly wage" vs. professional musicians who also play for the love of it. That's an image I'll be hanging on to. It describes much of the work I do in my "real" job; not nearly fast enough production to ever get rich from but fulfilling enough that I don't really mind.
And thanks for asking this question, I've kinda wondered if there were other folks like me out there. Now I guess maybe there are. I fall into the "reluctant" group. I truly respect and value the incredible knowledge base on this forum and I've followed the posts here almost daily for many years. The commitment to craft and history found here is just amazing and if you ask a question here you're likely to get better information than you could hope to find anywhere else that I know of.
I'm not any kind of professional gun builder but I built my first flintlock rifle almost 40 years ago and I believe that my skills have grown steadily since then. I just don't usually post my work on the internet. Not here or anywhere else. It's amazing to me how often something publicly posted with the very best of intentions can be misinterpreted, hijacked, or just plain take some weird turn that you'd never see coming once it's "out in the world". I find it surprisingly stressful. I'm an introvert by nature, which is why shop-time and time in the woods are my two comfort zones. I suppose that I have regretted a great many things I've said in my life but have almost never regretted anything that I didn't say. Posting my work seems to fall into some kind of a similar category.
John
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I finished my first build from a blank this summer, and I had intended to post it but decided not to do so. I absolutely love it and am terribly proud of it, but it has its flaws. I guess it’s not so much that I don’t want criticism, but I’m well aware of what I got wrong, and at least have a vague idea of what I did right - but I just don’t think my work adds a lot to the discussion. Nobody is going to look at what I built and wonder how I did certain things and try to emulate it. I’m a beginner with a ton to learn. I have all the parts to start on number 2, but I’m dealing with some health issues so it’s on hold for a month or two.
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When I first joined the ALR I asked a question about L-R locks. The reply was sell it their junk. I was making a scratch built gun at the time. Well for a piece of junk it has served me very well.
What I'm getting at is think before we reply. I'm as guilty as the next person. Your ego is not my problem.
Mike,
A lot of us have long memories, I first started building my Gillespie Rifles in late 1990's and used only L&R locks I did not have good experiences with them with the exception of their Durs Egg which were great but not of the period I needed. I have heard their quality has improved but I still shy away from them for locks that I have had far better experiences with. Probably not fair to L&R but bad memories still linger and not enough difference in price for me to try them again.
Hope to see you at Knoxville show,
Dennis
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I guess I've been posting more pics on Facebook and texting with my customers lately than here. It's just easier and I have a ton of pics on my phone I need to download to my computer files where I have created a folder for each build.
I am now finishing a British Fowler with a Bobby Hoyt 16 ga x 42" barrel, Kibler fowler lock and a crazy figured cherry stock! I will be posting that soon.
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Just a thought re: posting and posts. I think it would be helpful if there were a 'Like' function on posts and replies. As it stands a reply needs to be typed out to register any type of acknowlegement to a post and I believe that gets 'blown off' more often than not. I know I've done it many times where I would've loved to have given a 'like' but instead just moved on. A simple click on a like button would serve to increase 'responses' quite a bit were one available. I routinely see posts with hundreds of views and just a few responses. (?) As I said it's just my thought/observation. Cheers, Fred
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I will post pictures when I feel it is necessary. I also like comments from people who KNOW what they are talking about not the "armchair computer builders". Some of the folks that reply don't know a screwdriver from a chisel ::). Without offending more people I will end here :-X.
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Maybe the ALR should pick a handful of selected people. That all building questions go through them only ? So that non pro builders don't bother the other members on here with their questions ?
They could also have a forum for amateur builders to show their work.
Plus a site for the pro builders too..? Perfect....?
Maybe the requirements for the pro advice group. You will have to have built 200-300 guns or more ? Or twenty-five years of experience to be considered into this select group ?
Heaven forbid us amateur builder's offer a suggestion or ask questions.
Yep I can see this as a great thing... NOT....
Oldtravler
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Mike, good suggestions. I love the brainstorming. One issue we have is self-defining as hacks or masters. I might know of some height throughput builders who are not considered masters, and several with maybe 50 builds under their belts whose work is among the very best. I’m not sure categories will work. I think that the person posting making it clear what they want is one way that can work. And for all who start a thread to realize they can delete the whole thing at any time.
I posted this below on the “building from blanks in the 1980s” thread.
If builders who post here state what they want for feedback, whether a work in progress or a finished gun, their contributions will help forward the craft and community.
We pre-suppose that everyone building a gun wants to know how it could be improved from a master’s point of view. That is not so. Some, maybe many builders find completing a kit that results in a very fine-shooting, reliable gun that is several steps above a manufactured gun, a worthy goal. Good on them!
No critique requested
“Here’s a turkey gun I just finished. It’s a big step up from my TC with a smoothbore drop in barrel. A real long gun flintlock.”
I need help
“I’ve got this Christians Spring build in progress from a blank and I’m trying to figure out how to handle the stepped wrist transition. Please take a look and tell me how it’s going and how you do it.”
“I’m shaping the lock panels on this one and it will be my first attempt at lock moldings. Well, second. I dug things up last time I tried. I simply don’t know how to do the “beaver tails” at the wrist. So I need to leave the wrist oversized then pare it down after carving out the beaver tails?”
What would be next level?
I’m done. What would you suggest I improve or work on in future builds?
“Here’s my finished 1770s Reading gun similar to RCA 21-23. Open for critique. I like this style and want to get to where I really have it down.
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Rich I was being sarcastic. I and others no doubt are tired of being slammed for asking maybe stupid questions to some. But to us we feel they are worth asking.
Most of us are here to help. That's why we comment. Because we have made mistakes and this is how we fixed them. We didn't comment because we considered we were " experts" or arm chair computer hero's.
We just tried to help and nothing else.
We are all on here to learn on how to improve our work. I appreciate everything you and the other moderators are trying to do.
But I won't set back and let some self proclaimed "Expert" run members down..!
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Just a thought re: posting and posts. I think it would be helpful if there were a 'Like' function on posts and replies. As it stands a reply needs to be typed out to register any type of acknowlegement to a post and I believe that gets 'blown off' more often than not. I know I've done it many times where I would've loved to have given a 'like' but instead just moved on. A simple click on a like button would serve to increase 'responses' quite a bit were one available. I routinely see posts with hundreds of views and just a few responses. (?) As I said it's just my thought/observation. Cheers, Fred
Would be nice but unfortunate our forum software package does not support that feature.
Dennis
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I wouldn't change a thing. Well maybe kick Mike to the curb hahahahahahahahaha ;D ;D ;D 8) I think the forum runs well, and is moderated exceptionally well (even when I'm occasionally moderated for getting hot under the collar), and has run smoothly since its inception. And just me personally, I appreciate that there aren't 80 sub boards under each category. But I'm old fashioned and behind the times. Frankly message boards of this type are likely behind the times anyway but I like that and don;t keep up with all the eff book, twit-ter stuff etc.
Honestly, I've been here since the beginning, or almost since the beginning, and I seem to remember it being a lot more raucous and 'in your face' years ago with some of the guys like Earl (who I really miss seeing here) than it is now.
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I feel this is redundant due to the sheer number of Kibler kit assembly and finish jobs out there. But here’s what a customer of mine had me create from one Kibler’s Early Colonial kits. Rust blued barrel, temper blued lock, not the frizzen of course. All steel screw bolts etc temper blued.Thinned laurel mountain honey maple stain, Waterlox finish. Customer wanted the light stain color.
(https://i.ibb.co/MVq3W3b/4672-EFA5-DEA9-41-DE-8630-5-EDED1-D17228.jpg) (https://ibb.co/DC3SsSN)
(https://i.ibb.co/jgfBJ9D/DF321580-9-BEF-495-C-B8-E0-C06-C68-E3-AEB3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3BdGR5c)
(https://i.ibb.co/ZH7CdmZ/732-E9342-FCC2-46-B1-9287-83-F97-B84-B669.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9wSjntM)
(https://i.ibb.co/vZhHhYc/84-C476-F3-F971-463-D-A9-C9-D11-F98-A27-CA7.jpg) (https://ibb.co/syC2CHg)
(https://i.ibb.co/K7drHph/078-E4-B35-E71-B-498-A-B216-9-E4-A832-A19-A2.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0ZTG3R2)
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That lock really shines. I’ve never done a gun stained that light but it looks good. Some originals look pretty light now and I wonder what they looked like new. The Marshall gun is pretty light.
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Right now, no I'm not comfortable. I have a few people I wont hesitate to ask advice privately, but where I am now, it's mostly about *me* figuring out how to do things.
One thing is to get advice and the other is to apply it and that's where I am right now; learning how to apply myself.
Any unsolicited comments/advice could disrupt that. I'll admit that I'm in over my head, but I've done that before and it's how I often learn. I will post milestones (I think) and hopefully I'll reach one of those soon.
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This is a good post Rich. I still believe most all replies here are helpful and good spirited, for the few troublesome replies I think some thick skin would help. I think some of us are slow builders and that probably doesn't lend itself well to updates as they may be very infrequent.
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Hi Rich. Undecided!
I almost sent you a PM but thought it might have value here for perspective. If not appropriate please delete.
If LR building is like baseball, then I’m a benchwarmer, haven’t even stepped to the plate!
I am a bit perplexed what to make of this forum. Perhaps my comments are germane here as a potential wannabe builder. Sure, like many here I slapped together a TC kit back in the 70’s, but that’s as far as I’ve gone. I have toyed with the idea of trying a plank build the last few years.
Now, on to my confusion. I posted a thread a couple days ago wanting advice on lock fitting. I looked at the tutorial section of this forum and attempted a general forum search with little success.
There are over 200 views of my thread yet I received only one response which I am grateful for. Granted, the advice sought was about a production flintlock rifle. But I would think that being taught how to approach, analyze, and then offered tangible steps in correcting the problem would be a great learning opportunity prior to ever doing a proper inlet on a plank. The kind gent stated the obvious overview which I basically did know; and at least he responded. I’m NOT slighting him at all. However I did ask for specifics and got none. It’s akin to someone saying they need specific directions because they have a flat tire and they are told … change it. Not overly constructive help when one has never been shown or coached in “the doing” of changing a flat to effect solving the problem.
Perhaps I expected too much. Perhaps I should not have made the post at all if it is beneath the membership core skill level. Perhaps trying to analyze and correct others mistakes (production gun or not) is just silly and futile. Perhaps understanding and learning how to fix your own rifle is just plain stupid. Would I have received a different response if I had posted a semi ugly chunk of wood in the form of a Longrifle ready for me to start the process of inletting the lock? If it were a production lock would I have been advised to strip the lock and start with only the plate? Would I have been asked if I knew how to properly disassemble the lock first, and if my answer was no then directed to a tutorial to do so?
I hope this doesn’t come across as me being jilted and caustic. I truly am not. It is just one person’s perspective. I check this forum multiple times a day and rather enjoy it. But I do get the vibe why others may not want to post anything here. Almost appears that some vague battle line has been drawn between some camps here. Thus, I discern that everyone seems hesitant to discuss or comment on any thread. Whether the reasons are real or imagined I don’t know, but it is disheartening. I hope a solution and reconciliation where need can ensue.
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There is all this talk of the privileged "in crowd" and then lowly "everyone else". I just don't see it here. Does that mean that I am one of the special people?
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Oil Derek, I could not see from the picture where the contact was. Others may not have seen it either.
The general rule in inletting a lock is you continue to remove high spots in the inlet until the lock bolster contacts the bolster.
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Thanks for replying Rich, but I did not expect my lock thread issue to be addressed here. I’m actually not offended, I was merely pointing out that when help is asked for on this forum, it is not always forthcoming. If a new member (or established) senses indifference to their queries then they may quit posting altogether and abandon this forum, which would be a shame. Personally, it’s becoming hard for me to know when and if I should post a topic for help. Alas, I don’t have a remedy.
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Derek, it seems like there’s one data point that you’re using to judge the ALR forum, and perhaps inferring biases that may or may not be present. I offered a what I hoped would be a helpful response, but too late, I guess. I hope you get that issue with the lock fit sorted out.
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Personally, I think this is the best resource for learning about period gun work there is. I tell everyone interested in anything covered here to check it out. I even refered to guy who makes western style jewelry, Spurs, tack, etc. to the site recently to answer some of his questions about the use of bluing. I do tell them all to take things with a grain of salt. Opinions vary. And that sometimes people are bad about getting off topic. For example, I once posted about carving. I was basically asking about the way the edge of the carving should be done. And maybe it wasn't worded well and was misunderstood. But it turned into a lecture on design. I knew the design wasn't great, I was just trying for something I could execute. It was my first time and wasn't expecting a masterpiece. And all else aside, that wasn't my question and I didn't get what I was looking for. So I looked elsewhere for answers and continued as best I could. I didn't want to get into a negative exchange with anyone, they were just trying to help, so I never even commented on my own thread. But not complaining, been at craftwork/arts/trades almost all my life and learning often means engaging with other people. And that kind of stuff happens. Just something we might bear in mind is that the question should be the focus of discussion.
I hope I didn't stray too far from topic, I think you may be asking specifically about finished builds 😆
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The only suggestion I have is to figure out how to make the search function a bit easier to use.
I have received a great deal of advice here and I am forever grateful.
I have been down and out for a bit and haven't been able to make progress on my first ever muzzleloader. I'll post some more sometime soon.
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I can honestly say that I haven't made remarks on a posted MLer unless requested to do so and then only reluctantly. Enjoy looking at the pics of other's work ....a lot of fine work being shown......Fred
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I've posted here many times. I'm not only amateur..not even of Bush League caliber. I've only built one flint pistol and one flint rifle. Plus 15+ years of a T\C Hawken re-do.
I've found this forum to be a great resource of helpful information. That doesn't mean it prevented me from making a thousand mistakes as I went. This rifle build stuff isn't as easy as it appears.
For me, my "end product" is more a working tool than a display. I wanted (and have) flintlock firearms that can take 3 weeks afield in the cold and those summer days of practice and not fail or have gaps and wobbles that prevent solid performance or create potentially dangerous situations.
That said, I still think my flinter's look good. Not great, but good.
Some have posted replies to my questions and have been very helpful. Some more critical in order for my end product to be better. Those have been accepted in the context of helpful objectivity. Others have responded in a "why are you asking such an elementary question" fashion....and I've called out those who have.
It's those who respond on the "elementary" part of the bell curve that prevent me, or IMHO anyone from showing their work. Being critical to help someone to the next level is great. Being critical to someone\comparing their work to a builder who's done this several hundred times just to point out "my work is better" is not helpful.
Trying to stay objective, as the one who ask many questions, is key to bringing me to the next level of a better build.
FWIW
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Rich,
If I posted a half made gun here and wanted advice, I would be only too pleased to be told I needed to alter it if it looked wrong to expert eyes.
I only ever got to WKU to the gunmaking course once, (With Ron Ehlert in 2003)
I was hacking away at this Griffin sporting gun copy and had the lock panels cut down close I thought.
Ron was out of the room, but Gary Brumfield came for a look around;
I asked him about my lock panels and he said "Way too wide!"
What was my reply?
"Thank You!"
That's what I was there for.
Same here on the forum, No room for pride if I want to learn.
That's how I see it Rich.
On a finished gun the replies can be a bit academic, but not always so.
I had finished a Jaeger rifle before I went to WKU.
Ron indicated from pictures the lock panels were a bit wide. I thought on that, and when home I cut them back and re-finished it.
Ron was a Gentleman, and didn't say outright what was wrong.
I after thought just asked him if he reckoned I could re-do those panels, and he said for sure, so I did!
Can't learn without correction!!
Pukka.
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Rich, not judging but offering one perspective and one opinion concerning a potential barrier that might influence new guys that visit this forum for help.
You ARE absolutely right about one data point. I am not stating a hypothesis with statistical significance based on sample size here. :o
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My claims as a gun builder are almost non existent.The closest copy was a long range .451 and it had a precarved stock from Don Brown's stalking rifle.The barrel started as a 451 GM 1 and 1/8 across the flats.I had one of Don's finished breeches and CW rifle maker Tom Nixon turned almost all the octagon off.I made a 4 screw lock with Henry hammer and the adjustable folding tang sight and a Lyman 17A that was mounted on a custom base that had a level vial and windage adjustment.It was a good looking gun in spite of the builder.
Getting to the "Are you comfortable or reluctant"part,my idea is that if you made it,can shoot it don't worry about the fact that it's not perfect and that an inlay and barrel wedge is 1/2"off from the relic you may try to copy.My favorite muzzle loaders are the Northeastern caplock target rifles and the Whitmore rifle once owned by General Grant sets the standard to be achieved.Second on the list are the English half stock flint and caplock hunting and target rifles.Number 3 are the SMR's that have the ornamentation found on a shovel handle and a barrel 4 feet long.These rifles show the capabilities of a man that has $7 worth of tools and a bit of "know How"and proved it to one and all.
These are only one man's opinions and I am now almost retired and offer little beyond a trigger every now and then to gun makers
Bob Roller
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Well Rich I think you hit a cord, over 2000 reads and 77 replies in less then 4 days. Somebody is interested out of the more then 5000 members. Great question and great site!!!If you look over past post the post with the most views(2000+) and replies (75+) are all those that follow the build of a rifle, John Hills rifle71/6968, Build Flintlock Pocket Pistol 81/10769, My Apprentice & Our English Fowler Project154/12850, Building Maryland Rifle 117/18349. I have a saying with my children " If you want company, you got to give company". Basically the views show that lots of members are " gathering , ideas, style, techniques etc. from others but they are not holding up their part to the equation. This site is a share ideas sight, if you post and don't want critiques fine, just mention that when you post your build pics, but by all means post. Maybe your ideas my not have been executed the best , no problem most of us don't build looking for repeat customers, we just build. But with 5000 + members there has got to be lots of ideas ( more then one way to skin a cat). I post when I build but I don't build often , a gun every year to year and a half. I have built around 18 guns all from planks and the later builds are more involved carving / engraving /patchbox. For me when this goes on the stars have to align and everything else has to be right to start carving and engraving. I have to be in the proper frame of mind, I don't want to screw up the gun with some shoddy carving and engraving. I don't come by these days often the reason for long completion times for a gun. Life gets in the way of living and when farming kicks in , farming (mother nature) rules. I have trouble trying to find time to keep shooting. I look most every day , I like the input by everyone even Brooks. I like to post pics of what I have done when I can to help . Thank you to the moderators and Dennis even if he won't let me explain how to find the proper powder charge/ shoot a barrel in with pics. Still an outstanding site, thank you for doing this!!!!!!!! Steve
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Reluctant. I build for myself, a grand total of 10 guns since 1975. I would rather benefit from other's experience than post my own projects. Add to the fact that I'm the quiet type anyway. I admire several builders here, I won't mention names but they all contribute freely of their experience for which I'm grateful. The last 3 rifles I've built have drawn upon things I've learned here. One I was especially proud of was an English Sporting rifle I finished in 2018. I paid attention to others who had built and documented similar rifles and was careful to accurately copy the details that aren't noticeable such as a blind rear lock bolt hole, lug underneath the standing breech, etc. It was not a kit but a careful selection of parts. I made a couple mistakes, using a round faced lock for one, and the wrong trigger guard finial for another, according to the era. Then I tried my hand at silver wire inlay and mucked it up. The inlay itself went OK but my design was amateurish. My friends think it's great but they don't know what it should look like. Screwing up my courage I will post pictures now. The stock came from Dunlap and was cut by Dave Keck, lock is Chambers, barrel is Rice.
(https://i.ibb.co/XC8vm1n/174.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hmftpbG)
(https://i.ibb.co/cYPbrQh/176.jpg) (https://ibb.co/y4DhQqF)
(https://i.ibb.co/wMVhj29/177.jpg) (https://ibb.co/syn9zX0)
(https://i.ibb.co/dGnRD2p/179.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3BtncNF)
(https://i.ibb.co/ncBCDj2/173.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gTdVDJ1)
(https://i.ibb.co/z5H8n4C/125.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VNpHjqb)
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Reluctant. I build for myself, a grand total of 10 guns since 1975. I would rather benefit from other's experience than post my own projects. Add to the fact that I'm the quiet type anyway. I admire several builders here, I won't mention names but they all contribute freely of their experience for which I'm grateful. The last 3 rifles I've built have drawn upon things I've learned here. One I was especially proud of was an English Sporting rifle I finished in 2018. I paid attention to others who had built and documented similar rifles and was careful to accurately copy the details that aren't noticeable such as a blind rear lock bolt hole, lug underneath the standing breech, etc. It was not a kit but a careful selection of parts. I made a couple mistakes, using a round faced lock for one, and the wrong trigger guard finial for another, according to the era. Then I tried my hand at silver wire inlay and mucked it up. The inlay itself went OK but my design was amateurish. My friends think it's great but they don't know what it should look like. Screwing up my courage I will post pictures now. The stock came from Dunlap and was cut by Dave Keck, lock is Chambers, barrel is Rice.
(https://i.ibb.co/XC8vm1n/174.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hmftpbG)
(https://i.ibb.co/cYPbrQh/176.jpg) (https://ibb.co/y4DhQqF)
(https://i.ibb.co/wMVhj29/177.jpg) (https://ibb.co/syn9zX0)
(https://i.ibb.co/dGnRD2p/179.jpg) (https://ibb.co/3BtncNF)
(https://i.ibb.co/ncBCDj2/173.jpg) (https://ibb.co/gTdVDJ1)
(https://i.ibb.co/z5H8n4C/125.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VNpHjqb)
I'd like to build one of that style someday and I hope mine turns out as well as yours. Great work
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Although my interest is not with American longrifles at this time but more European. I will try to post some pictures of what I am working on. I like the earlier stuff.
(https://i.ibb.co/Hg0YsZX/20230315-155208.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
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Obviously I don't know anything about posting pictures.
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I just posted my first build and I will say I thought about it a little before I did. I made mistakes along the way which I am sure most of us do. I don't even mind others pointing them out so I can learn a better way. The thing is that there are so many beautiful and well built guns on here. Pieces that are as much a work of art as any famous painting. It makes you think "who wants to see my first build with all of its mistakes and simpleness?". On the other hand I am happy with what I did for the skills I have. I plan to improve those skills so here I am posting my builds for better or worse. You have to begin somewhere and mistakes are one of the most useful tools in learning.
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"who wants to see my first build with all of its mistakes and simpleness?"
Someone that is about to start their first build.
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"who wants to see my first build with all of its mistakes and simpleness?"
Someone that is about to start their first build.
BINGO!
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"who wants to see my first build with all of its mistakes and simpleness?"
Someone that is about to start their first build.
Very true. Especially if there’s a little explanation about what might have gone wrong, like what caused an errant hole or a pin to get out of place.
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"who wants to see my first build with all of its mistakes and simpleness?"
Someone that is about to start their first build.
“What does someone that has posted their first build want to see here?”
Critiques and comments that they can learn from.
Thick skins may be needed to properly interpret and apply critiques and comments to our work, but they shouldn’t be required as a defense from rude people. Empathy is something that a lot of people need to learn and display in their comments.
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I am very late to this discussion, but I felt like writing. I read other forums, mostly modern things, and almost all of those are downright nasty at times. I believe our forum members to be gentlemen and ladies in the main. Very civil, and our moderators keep it so. Thank you folks.
That said, if someone asks for critique and comments, then our members are free to give those. Some folks are direct, and that beats vague. That is the way to learn. That said, I do not think that our experts' comments are being harsh or destructive. I've made 52 shooting/hunting bags thus far, and have posted each. I have received positive and negative comments, and I have learned.
My opinion is that if someone simply posts/shows off their work, by and large they get encouragement. Compliment the good parts, and tactfully point out areas for change or growth.
There is another forum where very expensive guns by a certain maker are collected and shown online. Pretty much anything shown is brutally criticized. I can only imagine the newcomers that have been run off! The posting members (to me) hide their brutal comments behind "We are just sharing knowledge" when in truth they are trying to tear others down. Very much an "I am better than you because I have a better gun" website.
ALR is a wonderfully civil place to make friends. Keep it friendly, share the knowledge, encourage and make new friends. God Bless, Marc
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Well said, Marc. By and large this is one of the best places on the internet for calm and well - intentioned commentary.
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I Don't post ( Can't take photos)
One of my rifles in for sale section. Built in 1984 from a blank from U.P. Mich.
Was the 9 th rifle I built & engraved.
Gus D.
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I Don't post ( Can't take photos)
One of my rifles in for sale section. Built in 1984 from a blank from U.P. Mich.
Was the 9 th rifle I built & engraved.
Gus D.
Some very fine work!
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"who wants to see my first build with all of its mistakes and simpleness?"
Someone that is about to start their first build.
Yep, when the mistakes are shown during the course of producing a lesson/video and solutions provided, it goes a long way to instilling confidence. I’ve watched Bill’s Tennessee rifle build series more times than I can count, so much so that I have created an episode catalog that helps steer me to specific areas of the build. He made errors along the way and clearly explained the how and why as well as guiding the viewer as to how to correct it.
I’ve made many mistakes along the way and I’ve not even got to shaping the stock yet but because I’ve gone slowly and methodically (so far) I’ve managed to overcome and fix those problem areas. I’ve even started a “don’t do this” list. Lol.
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"I Don't post ( Can't take photos)
One of my rifles in for sale section. Built in 1984 from a blank from U.P. Mich.
Was the 9 th rifle I built & engraved.
Gus D."
I have seen Gus' work at CLA. Very beautiful, accomplished work.
Gus, if you can send me photos, I can adjust them and post them for you if you like.
God Bless, and best wishes, Marc
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Thanks for kind remarks Rich & Marc.
Will talk to you at one of the shows Marc.
Gus