AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Antique Gun Collecting => Topic started by: brokenflint on December 04, 2009, 05:22:29 PM
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I was looking through the KRA site searching the various makers when I noticed that no NJ makers where listed. Right across the border in PA its a hotbed of makers, surely there had to be a demand in NJ and New York City because of the population. Anyone have any info or done any research?
Broke
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Hi Broke,
I think the Annelly (spelling?) family of gunsmiths worked in NYC and NJ. Thomas Annelly worked for a time in Trenton and was inspector or armorer (I think) of militia arms in one part of NJ.
dave
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I, too, have pondered this fact, myself. The best that I can come up with is as follows: Gunsmiths, as we know, were skilled and obviously of reasonable intelligence. Thus, they had enough sense to settle on the preferable side of the Delaware. ;D Yes, we like to kid our New Jersey bretheren, especially the few who can speak English. Jersey jokes are actually a genre around here, such as: Q: Why are most New Yorkers clinically depressed? A: They found out that the light at the end of the tunnel is New Jersey. And, yes, they retort with derogatory remarks about the condition of our teeth and our narrow gene pool.
In all seriousness, I have thought about it but, like many other things, never done anything about it. Could there have been a handful of builders across the river from PA or on the outskirts of NYC? I will review Sellers looking only for period NJ gunmakers and report back to you.
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Probably all settled in PA so they wouldn't have to deal with the hoop-jumping involved in obtaining an 'Ye Olde Armorers ID Card...' ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I thought it was bears in the garbage made em move to PA, oh wait you's got bears in your garbage too!!! Ya all keep me posted iffin ya find sumtin!! Dave I'll look up Aneelly on Ancestory dot com once I renew my membership after christmas. Thanks All
Broke
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Now wait a minute! I thought New York City was a thriving center of production for fowling pieces! Where did I pick up that intelligence? Tom Grinslade's book? I know a riflemaker who has a SXS 16ga made in NYC in 1810 but by whom I don't know. Surely this wasn't the only builder there!
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Broke,
Hartzler and Whisker (Early American Flintlocks)list many colonial gunsmiths in New York City. Families associated with the gun trade over several generations before and during the Rev War include Allen, Annelly, Ellsworth, Forbes, Van Dyck, Van Gelder, and Waldron. Some gunmakers worked in the 17th century and some probably worked (like Edward and Thomas Annelly) in NJ for at least a time. Thomas Annelly eventually became a master armorer at Harpers Ferry. Hartzler and Whisker show some guns by the Annellys and Neuman shows some as well in his book Battle Weapons of the American Revolution.
dave
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You men are correct! NYC had plenty of gunsmiths, as did that other region, Upper New York State. But after starting to cull Seller's book last night, I suspect that New Jersey period gunsmiths might end up being one of those candidates for "shortest book in the world." There are few, but not a lot.
Also some other trends I came up with at first glance, subjects for another day, perhaps...very few gunsmiths also in Delaware, which, as you know, were the lower three counties of Pennsylvania until they formed their own state.
Also I hit upon the town of Bushkill, PA as the location of numerous flint and percussion era gunsmiths. Bushkill is not a big place, but un upstate crossroads in the Poconos, near the Delaware (NJ border). Far more gunsmiths there than the norm for that area and/or size hamlet. Almost looks as if the NJ shooters came across the Delaware to buy their guns. Nothing's changed. I will eventually give you a list of NJ possibilities.
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OK so what have we got here, NYC listings, with one of them possibly working the NJ neighborhood. That being Annelly but no actual record? So where do we go from here and what's the most likely plan of research attack?
When you guys hunt down a PA maker's history you usually have a name to start with. Which at least keeps the target in sight. In this case we should check old tax records I assume to come up with names but no guns! In any case thanks for responses so far and do keep me posted, this has aroused my curiosity for sure.
Broke
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a couple thoughts, parts of current NJ were claimed by other states during colonial times, PA and NY and even CT at one point. these claims were finally settled as the states were drawn up after the revolution. So its possible the gunsmiths may be listed in other areas.
Or as suggested, maybe they didn't want to admit the address. Once when I met a gentlemen who seemed appologetic about moving here from NJ I told him not to worry, My family came from there, we just got out before it got real bad. He aksed when we left, I told him the 1790's ;D
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Hi Broke,
Thomas Annelly definitely worked in Trenton, NJ so there you have at least 1 gunmaker. It is possible that NJ being small and stuck between NYC and Philly really did not have a need or demand for local gunsmith services. Prior to the Rev War, the state was never an important venue in wars during the colonial period (although the F&I War briefly entered NW New Jersey, which was why the barracks in Trenton were built). There were no serious battles or threats from indians after the 17th century. There were some small border skirmishes with NY that were politically important but did not involve some large military mobilization of the citizens. During the 18th century NJ was probably not a center of "frontier" traffic or trade. Moreover, much of southern and western NJ was settled by Quakers in the late 17th and early 18th centuries. Perhaps gunmaking was not a popular profession with them. That might also be the case for northern and central Delaware. By the time of the great waves of German immigration, which brought many gunsmiths to the colonies, much of NJ was probably already owned and settled offering little prospect for the newcomers. I suspect NJ just didn't have much demand for local gunsmiths.
dave
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There were armories in Trenton very early in the Rev War, ca. 1775/1776. I have references to Ebenezer Cowell working there (in a managerial position, I believe) prior to evacuating to Philly and thence Allentown (also managerial). Furthermore there were ironworks in Hunterdon and Sussex Co. just across the river from Easton and there are records of the Moravians at Bethlehem doing business with them - easy access via the Easton ferry. However, have not seen references to actual gunsmiths. I've always assumed close enough to Philly/Easton/Bethlehem, and NYC, to reduce almost to nil any need for specialized gunsmithing. I spent my first 22/23 years of existence in Hopewell, and never heard of any reference to colonial gunsmithing. I'm sure there must have been some, here or there, but not much of a need in central NJ.
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I always wondered about that I seldom (ie: never) heard of NJ gunsmiths, yet right across the river is Allentown, Bethlehem, etc. Was the river such a barrier, culturally different area: the Agrarian NJ vs the Transitory/Indian warring front of PA?
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Acer,
I think there were some important cultural differences. Much of western NJ was purchased by Quakers in the 1670s. I suspect they had a lot of influence just as they did in southeastern PA where they gave Benjamin Franklin fits with their resistence to arming and preparing for frontier warfare during the F&I war. In fact, the rural population surrounding Philly just about went to war against the Quakers in their frustration. A book worth reading is David Hackett Fisher's "Albion Seed". He describes the cultural and political significance of 4 great waves of English colonial immigration into North America. Those 4 waves were the puritans in New England, the displaced aristocrats in Virginia and the Carolinas, the border Scots in the frontier areas, and the Quakers in the mid-Atlantic region. They all brought with them very different ideas of freedom, liberty, social order, education, recreation, etc. Some of those differences still exist and explain much concerning political and social divisions in this country.
dave
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Aright!! We've doubled our NJ database, Annelly then Cowell!. Actually I do think that we need to consider
1. Early boundaries, Yes NY and NJ had the border wars which means we need to search out side the NJ box so to speak.
2. Cultural diversity, NJ had a great number of Dutch settle in the northern part of the state, as well as more than a smattering of French Hugenots early on as well as Germans.
3. Location: PA was the frontier, no doubt its number of gunsmiths outstripped the other regions in demands for a period of time. NYC, imo was considered a merchantile / cultural hub where hi end guns (and other items as silver, furniture) could be obtained. The lack of known gunsmiths still doesn't address the repair / maintenance demand I would think. Distance is also something that bothers me, if say you lived in West Milford twp (NW corner of state) you might travel to Paterson, NJ, PA or NYC but the round trip would have taken a week +/-. Paterson was a fairly large town early in Colonial time, which would have had it's variety of merchants, so trade guns would be a ready merchantile item, this being the case I would think that this "City" would at least have had a gunsmith. Another solution to this would be traveling merchants bringing in new guns to the outlaying areas but leaves repairs to local blacksmiths, at times not the best of workmanship. I still think we just haven't found any records.
4. Population stability: by this I am referring to the land grants / proprietorships / ownership for the most part being established by the time of the Revolution. In a primitive sense this transitioned the hunter gatherer mentality of early settlements need for food and protection to a more traditional european agrarian society. This means to me that more than likely fowlers would be the weapon of choice as a farm tool / required militia gun. So these may have been French / English / Dutch / German or America made.
Eric Ringwood NJ was a hot bed of iron foundry work, which imo would have had barrel makers interested in locating in that area. They would have easy material access / easy trade route access to distribute the final product. Anyone know about barrel makers in this area?
Broke
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As far as Dutch influence in the northern part, very true. when New Amsterdam became New York many early New Amsterdam Dutch famlies (including the Loseys) went west into NJ. (current Sussex and Morris counties). They needed to feed and protect the family. When Abiel Losey (father of the Benjamin and John Losey whose gun is shown in the virtual museum and library) showed up in NY state just after 1800 he was already listed as a barrel maker, he had to learn his trade some where. And one of the early iron works was run by the Losey and Canfield familys).
That area was as much or more the frontier as SE PA at the time. 1754 saw indian raids in the Minisink and Sussex area and the frontier guard was established about 1756 to protect the area while the Jersey Blues where off at Lake George and Ti. NJ histories reference 14 forts strung out to protect the region. I would agree with Brokenflint about the distances, Some one had to be at least repairing if not making guns in that active an area.
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Hi Broke,
Certainly, iron ore was a major commodity from NJ. The big Durham boats that Washington used to attack Trenton were designed to carry iron ore up and down the Delaware River. Hibernia and Batsto were also iron ore producing locations in NJ. It is interesting with all that metal mining that no barrel makers and few gunmakers can be identitfied from the region. You mentioned that there must have been some gunsmiths that repaired local guns. I am sure that there are local smiths all over the colonies that remain obscure because they just did repairs and produced very few guns themselves. There also may be many local blacksmiths who did minor repairs on guns. I think NJ just did not have a market for firearms that would support many local fulltime producing gunmakers. Probably,individuals and local merchants could easily buy guns directly or for resale from makers in NY and PA. Despite early conflicts with indians, border disputes, and a few incidents during the F&I war, residents of NJ probably did not share the anxieties that colonies bordering frontiers had. Moreover, farmers in settled and safe environments probably did not view guns as a tool of daily life.
dave
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Unless the farmers had to deal with daily raids of Crow, rodents, and other crop eating rodents. There were a lot of Finns and Swedes on the Delaware, Maybe they were carrying snap lock rifles and muskets. Snap locks were carried in Scandinavia, relatively unaltered, from 1550 to the 20th century. Any ideas?
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This is a fine topic for speculation. There was obviously some fairly high end making of dutch and British style fowling pieces in New York but very little early rifle making. The rifle making came in with the big waves of Germans (Moravians and people from the Palantine) who clustered in eastern Pennsylvania. As has been previously pointed out, most of NJ was subdivided by the time of the large German immigration. During most of the NJ settlement period there was very little production of arms anywhere in the America. By the end of the F&I war, most of NJ was farms, while the vast bulk of PA was forest. Who buys guns, particularly rifles? Not farmers who no longer are bothered by hostile Indians.
Tom
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Tom
I buy part of what you say, but not all of it. I went back and looked at some reference to Palatine migration and agree that the vast majority of the gunmakers from these migrations settled more on the PA frontier so to speak.
Who buys guns, particularly rifles? Not farmers who no longer are bothered by hostile Indians.
This is what I don't buy fully, I think there was always a threat of Indian raids into NJ and just across the border into NY. If we look at the Minisink battle (1779) and its aftermath we see that the folks from Goshen & Warwick NY as well as Sussex Cty NJ where afraid to go to the battle site to recover remains of their relatives. It took 40 years for them to feel safe enough to do this. Granted the Battle site is into NY/PA and a more contested area than NW NJ but I don't think they took the threat lightly, for one they wouldn't have responded so emotionally for a quick response to Brant's raids up the Delaware when they went off half cocked and got massacred. This was twenty years after the F&I War. As a small child I remember crawling into the cellar tunnel at a relatives home. It was many years later when my grandparents told me it was the escape route out of the house if it was attacked and burned by the Indians. This home was built in 1799 IIRC another 20 years after the Minisink fight.
NWestern (and middle grounds along the Delaware) NJ was very much the frontier in 1779 but the rest of the State was as you say, established towns and farms, where guns have always been a tool of the trade to control pests ;) of two or four legged kind.
I'm still interested in doing some research once I get time on-line with my Ancestry dot com account after the holidays. I'd like to see if maybe we could locate original town records of occupations and see what turns up.
Broke
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Sellers lists several dozen New Jersey gunsmiths, but most of them are from the machine age. Listings for patent holders for revolver systems, etc. Also, keep in mind that Sellers culled existing records and printed what he found. All of his sources are not of the same quality. He was good about telling readers where his stuff came from, so you can evaluate it yourself.
I was looking for builders of Kentuckies, not the rest, so I made some arbitrary exclusions. Anyone post-Civil War active was excluded unless cited as a builder of our guns. If they died during the Civil War I included them because they could have been building Kentuckies prior to that. I am 1/2 way through the book and here's what I have in addition to Annelly and Cowell.
Scott Allen, Baptistown, died 1860.
Cornelius Austin, Armorer to NJ, 1776-1779
Aaron Baldwin, Newark, 1841-1842
John Barr, Camden, died 1850.
S. Bodine, Camden, died 1850.
Alexander Boyden, Newark, 1824
Peter Crae, Patterson, died 1860.
Peter Dalton, Jersey City, listed in 1860's as maker of percussion 1/2 stocks
John Fitch, Trenton, 1743-1798. (likely an armorer)
In sum, maybe some armorers and a scant few late-percussion possibilities, but not one flint builder of any reputation or note.
There's an old joke around here that there are only two parts to New Jersey, that part which is outside of NYC and that other part that is outside of Philly. Maybe there's more truth to this than humor, at least regarding guns.
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Here is another one for you....gleaned from the 1850 census.
Chester, Burlington County, New Jersey.
JOSEPH TURNER - gunsmith, age 38, born in N. J.
Wife Phebe Ann, age 30, born N. J.
Dau. Rebecca, age 7, born N.J.
Dau. Harriet, age 5, born N. J.
Son John, age 1, born N. J.
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Back 1/2 of Sellers lists:
Henry Parker, Trenton, died 1860, Perc. 1/2 stocks and many locks.
Leo Reinfred, Camden, very late (1880's) but listed for 1/2 stocks.
Joseph Turner, Moorestown, died 1860's (cited previously)
That's about it for NJ, folks. No grand masters, no flint builders of note at all, and scant few percussion era builders, none regarded as important from what I can find. Bad gun territory then, too.
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Brokenflint, if you are serious enough to keep digging, I'm sure you'll find there were a lot more than most people suppose. Don't ignore the late ones, even up through about 1880. Many of those guys were old men by then and were working much earlier. The population census lists occupation beginning in 1850, so 1850, 1860, 1870 and 1880 are all a good source for gunsmith's names that you can research further. You could also check in state gazetteers & business directories and local city and county directories.
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Found a couple more while doing some other genealogy research. This is from the City of Paterson NJ - 1859
Hanson, Frederick Gunsmith 71 Prospect
Jeannotat, Jules Gunsmith 43 West
I also found one for the late 1700's but lost the link, he was in the local Goal :-) I really have to find this one again.
Broke
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While there is a lot we don't know about our beloved hobby, there are some things that we do know. We know where the centers of production were and we know generally what the patterns were that came from these areas.
We know that New Jersey was not, nor has ever been regarded as, a gun production center. It is neither noted for grand patriarch gunsmiths nor stunning or important flintlocks. That's not to say that a few were not built there. I sifted through Sellers just to rule out ignorance on my part. I found no surprises. I might be ignorant about the subject, but not much more than professional gun writers who spent a lot more time on the subject than I did.
There might be a reason why there's never been a book entitled Great Colonial Gunsmiths of New Jersey. There wasn't enough to write about to fill a monograph in a magazine. If so, I venture to say, it would have been done long ago. There are some very knowledgeable collectors in NJ, and if there were any grand masters in their local history, I'd bet that they would not only know about it but be out there telling us all about it. If you do come up with something remarkable, please share it.
For those who like rich pickings, instead just select one of PA counties on the east side of the Appalachian Range and study the gunsmiths there. You'll find more to study in one county here than you will in all of NJ. Or try western MD or sections of VA and NC; that's where remarkable builders did classic work in the colonial days. Now that I've given short shrift to those who are seeking something important coming out of New Jersey (other than the train from NYC) and offended all who like guns from other regions, I'll retire to the workbench, buff off some 200 year old patina from a J. P. Beck and also remove some light rust with a surface grinder while I'm at it.
;)
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We know that New Jersey was not, nor has ever been regarded as, a gun production center.
Not our era but don't forget Paterson Colts and Trenton marked Civil war muskets.
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Hey Wayne, don't forget to chrome the barrel, sand the stock and apply 15 coats of hand rubbed polyurethane. Let that dry for two weeks and then apply liberal coats of paste wax, buffing between coats when dry. This is what I do with all of my pieces at least once a year.
For in-between care, I wash then with regular detergent. Be sure to follow the instructions on the bottle for best results.
If symptoms persist, consult your physician. Opps, that is for another topic.
Dick
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Nate, you are correct. I previously mentioned Trenton and that after the machine age there was a big handful of NJ patent holders for pistol ignition systems, methods of building guns, and the like. Just didn't come across one noted colonial builder of commercial arms as of yet.
Regarding the notion of people with recorded deaths in the 1870's and 1880's being viable candidates for Kentucky production, I don't know if I buy this entirely. Sure, the possibility exists, but is there not a more likely probablilty that these people were the same as most of the others listed for NJ, manufacturers of machine-made firearms? Perhaps more chance that they were turning and boring revolver cylinders than making Kentuckies. If NJ revealed itself to be a hotbed of early hand work, I'd feel differently.
Let's find just one early Kentucky specimen from our new list to first establish that they made any at all. That would be a start, other than words of speculation, which clearly mine are. If we find 3 or 4, why, you and I can be the first to break NJ down into "schools." Then comes the book. Then the fame and the lecture circuit.
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Dick, there was one guy down in Lancaster who, upon getting another attic condition gun home, would immediately go for the Simichrome polish and buff every bit of brass on the gun. Then he used Ki-Wi black shoe polish on all the iron and "cleaned" the wood and waxed it. I succeeded in convinciing him late in life not to clean the stocks (he used Brillo pads). He removed 50% of the value of some of his guns, died intestate, and the bank who sold them during probate couldn't have cared less.
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Ouch, Wayne; well at least you saved a few. There are some individuals still, who persist in these unsanitary practices. I saw a magnificient Neihart recently that had the afore described treatment; it's available, but how do you put 225 years of age back on it? You and I probably know who those, so inclined, individuals are since we enjoy membership in the same collecting organization. It is likely best to stay a respectable distance when in their company lest what is affecting them jump the gap and infect you.
I confess to having done it once: to the first gun I owned. It was a nicely patinated 1842 Springfield musket and I just knew that it would look better if all that crud was taken off and the beautiful original finish and polish underneath it all could shine though. So I worked hard at cleaning it off. Well, those original finishes went a long time before I got it the gun. Underneath the patina, the metal was pitted and dirty and the wood was distressed looking. I let it hang around that way until I found someone who could make it look more presentable and did so. I certainly wasn't going to touch it again. Still have it though and as the years go by, it gets better, But, still...
Anyway, back to the subject, I have never encountered a gun that was made in NJ though there are fowlers, unmarked, that perpaps could have been made there. The Morristown
Museum (Washington's Headquarters?) has a display of guns which, while there, I did not get to see (change of exhibit), but suppose that they could have one such. The ranger mentioned that they have a Ferguson; how rare is that?
Maybe someone on this forum who lives in the area can check and report.
Best-Dick
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Wayne
My objective here was only to see if I could uncover any NJ gunsmiths while I work on my ongoing genealogical projects. I think that all the names of gunsmiths (NJ or otherwise) we can uncover and make known to the community is a benefit, so I will continue to look during my research. That PA is the hotbed of makers is immaterial as far as I am concerned, lots of folks have beat that one to death ;D
Broke
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Hi Dick,
I grew up next to Morristown and have viewed the gun collection at the Morristown Historical Park since I was 10 years old. The Ferguson rifle they have is an ordnance version that was undoubtedly one of the first 100 issued to Ferguson's rifle corps. The only other rank and file military issue Ferguson that can be dated to the Rev War is in the Milwaukee Public Museum. They have a good collection of muskets and civilian guns but I don't remember any that were made in NJ. The park used to have a storage room loaded with guns that people donated over the years. Many were mid to late 19th century firearms but they might have yielded a local product or two. I have no idea what happened to that little treasure. In those days, my Dad and I were allowed to go in and look at the guns. Can't do that anymore.
Thomas Annelly, who worked for some time in NJ during the Rev War period was clearly a fine gunsmith. All of the guns by Annelly shown in Neuman's "Battle Weapons of the Revolutionary War" and Hartzler's "Early American Flintlocks" appear to be of very high quality. In fact, when I get around to making a Rev War musket I plan to model it after Annelly's work as a token of my pride in being from NJ and appreciation of its rich colonial history.
dave
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Dave, Hello! I have been meaning to drop you a line, but still working on it, I guess. You were really fortunate to have seen the M'town Museum. I tried to talk my way in to have a look, but the ranger just wouldn't bend. Well, I plan to donate some pieces to institutions and I can assure you that their name won't be on the list.
What they might have gotten is a T. Annely blunderbuss. It turned up in a VA gun shop a long time ago, and eventually found its way to my wall. It is walnut stocked, with an iron barrel and a nice flat face colonial lock (no bridle). Lots of nice engraving and carved at the tang. One day, I will post some photos here, soon, hopefully. Ft. Ticondroga is quite interested in it, so that may be its future home. I see it as being colonial and made before his stint as armorer, but who knows?
Any Ferguson sounds like a good one and to have an early piece is icing on the cake. Dang, wish I could have seen it. Don't know when or even 'if' I get back thata way.
Enough for now. I will send you an email so we can just jawbone some.
Best regards to all-Dick
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Hi Dick,
Thanks for the note and I would love to see your Annelly blunderbus! It sounds like a really great gun. Ticonderoga would be a super place for it. Washington's Crossing State Park in NJ also has a nice little collection of period guns including a Durs Egg civilian Ferguson, Jaeger rifle, long rifles, and muskets. Much of the collection was donated by Kjell Swan. Keep in touch.
dave
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Here is one from the 1880 census that was born in 1798. Thomas Fenner, gunsmith, age 82, born in Penna. He is listed in District 48, Camden, Camden County, N J in 1880. Probably the same man Sellers lists in Philadelphia, 1824 - 1839.
Also, a little more on Frederick Hanson, previously mentioned by brokenflint. The 1880 census still lists him as a gunsmith, age 70, born in Denmark. His son, Frederick, Jr, was 39, also a gunsmith, and born in New Jersey, placing his father there at least as early as 1841.
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Found alittle more info on John Fitch (?Trenton, NJ)
John Fitch, subsequently famous as the inventor of the steamboat, came to Trenton in 1769 where he practised his trade as a gun-maker and metalworker. He rendered conspicuous service to the American cause in repairing firearms and making metal buttons. He was associated with Stacy Potts in his steel works in the making of files and other implements. When the first military company was formed in Trenton, Fitch was one of the Lieutenants and held that rank in the cantonment at Valley Forge. The Committee of Safety employed him as their gunsmith or armorer, and he was expelled from the Methodist Society, presumably for working at that business on the Sabbath. When the enemy entered Trenton in December 1776, Fitch removed to Bucks County. His shop and its contents, valued at three thousand dollars, were burned by the British as it was known that he had large contracts for the repair of American arms. Subsequently his studies in steam navigation resulted in the successful application of this power to a steamboat which plied the waters of the Delaware, 1788-1790, between Trenton and Philadelphia. Stacy Potts was one of the company formed to assist Fitch in his experiments, and he with Isaac Smith, Robert Pearson, Jr., Samuel Tucker, Abraham Hunt, Rensselaer Williams, John and Charles Clunn gave their names to the application to the Legislature of 1790 which obtained for him fourteen years’ exclusive privilege on this side of the Delaware. Fitch travelled much through the country northwest of the Ohio, and made a new and accurate map of that country, generally referred to as the “Ten New States,” including Kentucky. The map was advertised in Collins’ Trenton Gazette of July 1785. He died at Bardstown, Ky., in 1798. 29
Broke