AmericanLongRifles Forums
General discussion => Gun Building => Topic started by: Ohioan on August 21, 2008, 11:17:06 PM
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When I was at the shooting range yesterday the range officer gave me a stock for a child/small woman.
I'm wondering about parts for such a small gun.
The overall length of the stock is 46.5 inches. Stock is 1.75 inches wide. the upper forestock (toward the muzzle) starts out at 1 and a 1/8 in thick and ends at 7/8in thick.
The stock fits my wife well (she's only 5'2) but i'm not sure what barrel would work.
Would a "A" weight swamped be too large?
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Barbie sells such a kit. It's called the "Little Feller's Rifle". Check it out at www.flintlocks.com.
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I had one made a couple years ago. Used a small Siler lock and a lightweight [their thinnest] .32 barrel from Longhammack, cut back to ~36" [no taper]. Plan a 12.5-13" pull and you're in business. The main problem was that the triggerguard looks a bit oversized on the final gun...
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Reaves Goehring (717-684-2002) has a Lehigh youth rifle guard (8 1/4 X 3/4") and plate (3 3/4 X 1").
Tim C.
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While this maybe the same trigger guard that Tim speaks of, Reaves has a Snyder county trigger guard marked #11. Great for a youth rifle. Along the same Snyder county school, he has two butt plates basically the same, one being a bit narrower in the heal. The wider example is a copy of a Fort Ligonier dig up marked #38.
A Snyder County youth rifle is my next planned scratch build. I hope that LongJohns roundtable discussion pans out for Dixon's next year.
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While this maybe the same trigger guard that Tim speaks of, Reaves has a Snyder county trigger guard marked #11. Great for a youth rifle. Along the same Snyder county school, he has two butt plates basically the same, one being a bit narrower in the heal. The wider example is a copy of a Fort Ligonier dig up marked #38.
A Snyder County youth rifle is my next planned scratch build. I hope that LongJohns roundtable discussion pans out for Dixon's next year.
The plate that I have is #40 and the guard is #52.
Tim C.
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I looked at the little feller kit. The stock demensions don't match up. Especially when it comes to the butt stock.
This is a stock blank by the way...
I may make it an iron mounted rifle and make my own hardware other than the locks.
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Given the blank dimensions, maybe a half stock would work. ALR member Long John sent me photos of a couple youth rifles he built. One was a half stock and was a very nice piece. I'll try to find them (on an old and disconnected computer).
Larry Luck
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Here are some pics of a southern styled kids rifle, it has a 32" 13/16" GM .36 cal barrel turned 1/2 round with a wedding band the stock is walnut and was cut from a main beam in a barn that was built around the time the civil war was going on. The antler on the toe and heel are from a buck I killed the same day I met my wife November 17, 1979 It was built for my daughter by Don Kammerer in 1993 when she was 7 years old, she didn't get much use out of it but my son used it alot until he outgrew it and I built him another one.
Pics by Larry Pletcher.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi301.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn49%2FSChapman_pic%2FML%2520Rifles%2FDSC02554.jpg&hash=50dec30a1bb5ce19742f09f654b5c90fbcd2eef2)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi301.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn49%2FSChapman_pic%2FML%2520Rifles%2FDSC02528.jpg&hash=5657d7238c75ee0ce8670d1e7a234354223413d1)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi301.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn49%2FSChapman_pic%2FML%2520Rifles%2FDSC02527.jpg&hash=8ac1d6407920abde5ee8f3e5f8050318974a1bbc)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi301.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn49%2FSChapman_pic%2FML%2520Rifles%2FDSC02526.jpg&hash=3bb387b5cccec3f6e8edc9638aa8548fb38aeb34)
The length of pull is 11 1/2 " and the gun is scaled down and fits kids very well.
Steve C.
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I remember Don Kramerer from years ago at Friendship, havn't heard about him for a long time.
Here is a kids gun that is in the archives, but any way it has a 13/16" GM barrel, and Reaves's #42 butt and
#11 guard. 11 1/4" pull. 32" barrel.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi246.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg117%2Fj-rob1%2F002copy.jpg&hash=3f607fe285e53ae535b589ce624bc29b0fe4b1b4)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi246.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg117%2Fj-rob1%2F020copy.jpg&hash=afade2c3b69a1dc686005ae7a780e0a3cfd0af84)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi246.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg117%2Fj-rob1%2F005copy.jpg&hash=d0fec5abffe206fa270b70b914ffa5b33d30a260)
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Here are two rifles that LongJohn made. I'll ask his permission before posting the photos of two very happy kids holding the rifles.
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi29.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc300%2Fleluck%2Flittlerifles1.jpg&hash=07d00f9dcd09bdbcdc532103bbccfaa2cf63e6b8)
I mentioned the halfstock because of the thinness of the muzzle end of the stock, and recalled that this halfstock looked pretty darn good.
Larry Luck
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The thinness of the upper forestock concerns me the most. I would like to build a full stock. But looking at barrel demensions I'm not sure.
A 32in barrel will fit well. The LOP will be around 12.5-13 inches.
Green Mountain makes a 3/4" barrel, only in 36" and 42", but would that be alright for a full stock?
Let me think... plan for half the barrel to be above the edge of the forestock.
1/2 x 3/4 = 3/8
So 3/8 of barrel below the stock... add a 1/16 of wood to give some leeway... 7/16 of barrel below the stock.
That would leave 7/16ths of wood below the barrel the bottom of the barrel...
Would that leave enough room below the barrel for lugs and ramrod thimbles?
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I may have misunderstood what you meant, and assumed the dimensions were the ultimately horizontal thickness of the blank and not the vertical thickness.
A 3/4 barrel would be fine for a youth/ladies' gun. The LOP you described would probably work with a 36" barrel. I plan to use a LOP closer to 11.5" and will use a 31"+/- barrel,
Sitting Fox Muzzleloaders has several youth/ladies rifles that may give you idea.
http://www.sittingfoxmuzzleloaders.com/intro.html
Larry Luck
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i saw 3/4" barrels some where.. but now i can't find them.
i think making the hardware would be fun..
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is Don Kramerer still around?
Thanks,
Jeff
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The thinness of the upper forestock concerns me the most. I would like to build a full stock. But looking at barrel demensions I'm not sure.
Green Mountain makes a 3/4" barrel, only in 36" and 42", but would that be alright for a full stock?
Forget about all your measurements. Go with a GM straight barrel. Inlet it into the blank. Leave whatever web you need for your pins and cut your ramrod channel. This thickness is the same regardless of barrel size. Cut off and re-crown the barrel to make full use of wood length available. Install thimbles and tenons proportionately.
I think you are trying to "overthink" this build. This gun is 44" long overall with a 13-1/2" LOP.
http://oldfoxtraders.com/rexgun/minigun.htm
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Back around 1982 I made a rifle for my wife and son (he was 11 at the time) using a 7/8" wide, .50 caliber Green Mountain barrel 34" long and a small Siler percussion lock. It has a pull of 11.5" I think and was a lot of fun for them to shoot. I confess it was a cheap, quick and easy build, schimmel style, as I sensed (rightly) that is would get used "occasionally". I think the gun weighs about 5 pounds. With 40 grains of powder it shoots pretty well and doesn't frighten or punish anyone.
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is Don Kramerer still around?
Thanks,
Jeff
Jeff,
There is a Don Kammerer and a Don Kramer they both went to Friendship ,Don Kammerer built muzzleloaders he passed away in 1997.
Don Kramer shot bench and slug and I have not seen him in awhile so I don't know if he is still around.
Regards Steve C.
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Try this link:
http://www.stonewallcreekoutfitters.com/flintlock_barrels.htm
Larry Luck
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here is a little Tenn .32 rifle in a child/small female size:
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv626%2FMikeTR%2Ftennrif3.jpg&hash=a0e43aaeb4c042807f775931b3aba25f271b7af4)
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these are some great i dea you have given me my wife is starting to get intrested in ml shooting shes 5ft my daughter is still wanting hers built shes 7years the parts i have are a 13/16 45cal old kit Kentucky i was thinking on cutting down for them to use and my 2 boys that way it would get plenty of use and then the boys can fig out if they want to shoot ml without a big investment to find out they don't
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I built 2 rifles for two boys. Larry Luck posted the photos. Thank you Larry, I am on the road and the photos aren't on this computer. The caplock half-stock has an LOP of 12 inches and the flinter has an LOP of 10 inches. Both were made with 28 inch barrels.
Here is what I learned.
Children do NOT have the upper body strength of adults! Barrels have to be exceedingly light and short if you expect a child to be able to use it. Those barrels are both 13/16ths straight octagon cut down to 28 inches. They are 40 caliber. You MUST design for polymer ramrods! That will make the gun look chunky but the kids don't care.
The LOP depends a lot on the size of the child and they will grow. However, I think it is better to make a rifle that suits the child and as the child grows give the too-little rifle away and make another. Heaven help you if the child is a lefty and wants to shoot flint! The best lock is the small Siler but Jim Chambers won't tool that up in a left version until he has orders for about 1500.
I have a project going now for a rifle I plan to call the "Spike Buck" I have just finished the design work on the barrel. The TG will be the TG for the 1803 Harpers Ferry rifle from TOTW. (That is what is on the two rifles shown above.) It is tiny compared to other TGs. The butt plate will be cut down from a commercially available rifle. The lock will be the small Siler. I make all my other parts so it is easy to make them fit. The Spike Buck rifle will be 36 caliber with a swamped octagon barrel 28 inches long. My calculated weight for the barrel is 3 pounds and for the whole rifle is 4.5 pounds. I plan it have it done for the Fair next year.
I'll keep you all posted on the progress.
Best Regards
John Cholin
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Guys go to the Antique Guns section , there i have pics posted of a original boys rifle i own . I have some info to go along with it .
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I am going to make a rifle for my 5"2 wife and will use a swamped 38" A weight in 40 cal and cut an inch off each end to make a 36". This will make a very nice light rifle.
If making the rifle for a 12 year old boy I would not go under 13" pull since he will out grow it in a year or less.
I built a slightly too big rifle for my certainly not large at the time son and he could handle it well at 12 and I can shoot it OK.
Dan
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Boys rifle
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi72.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi199%2FDPhariss%2FML%2520Guns%2FDaniel1stdeerLR.jpg&hash=45f3565b3bac900a6090876b95ad550887fdbfa2)
Dan
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My wife shoots a full stock 13/16 to 3/4 taper .40 36" long balances nicely.
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Long John's rifles and their proud owners! Anybody need a better reason to build a youth sized rifle?
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi29.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc300%2Fleluck%2Flittlerifles2.jpg&hash=591f33371987addd605fcc1d78363a66b6209375)
(https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi29.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc300%2Fleluck%2Flittlerifles3.jpg&hash=f6937c7e735fab4c6e62afb8e3e0a3648335a9ba)
Larry Luck